2017 NBA Draft

[Fragism]

I completely agree that they're high on Markkanen. That's what I'm afraid of

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Fragism

I completely agree that they're high on Markkanen. That's what I'm afraid of

Yeah same here but then I wanted no part of trading for Noel but that seems to be working out well so who knows.
Markkanen just seems soft and I can't remember the last soft big that ever amounted to anything in this league....I guess Anderson who Markkanen is compared to.
All I know is that I'll be disappointed if we take Markkanen but he is very likely to be the best fit when we pick.

[Underdog]

Screw fit, just get the best player available (talent is usually the best fit anyway).

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Screw fit, just get the best player available (talent is usually the best fit anyway).

I agree but he might also be BPA in the eyes of the FO.
I just have a feeling they will have visions of a young version of Dirk/Chandler with Markkanen/Noel and see him as the best fit.

TBH I haven't seen enough of Markkanen to be so critical but what little I've seen hasn't been impressive at all.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The problem with drafting Lauri is that he'll never be able fill those German shoes. And the comparisons will never die. That's a looot of pressure.

I think they pick Frank over him...just makes too much sense. Not just because of the fact that they already drafted Roddy but because they wanted to draft Giannis as well.

And Frank is also supremely talented. You don't get into top 10 consideration based on potential alone.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The problem with drafting Lauri is that he'll never be able fill those German shoes. And the comparisons will never die. That's a looot of pressure.

I think they pick Frank over him...just makes too much sense. Not just because of the fact that they already drafted Roddy but because they wanted to draft Giannis as well.

And Frank is also supremely talented. You don't get into top 10 consideration based on potential alone.

I don't think he will even reach Ryan Anderson status.
At least RA has a little aggression to his game. I've seen nothing from Markkanen that gives me the impression that he'll be anything more than a Channing Frye at best.

[sefant77]

Barnes is a 4 in the new NBA....it would be beyond stupid to draft Markkanen if you have a PG/SG/SF with similar talent level available.

[Fragism]

As far as I can tell the only thing Markkanen can do really well is shoot (granted he's really good at that one thing). His ball handling is basically limited to a couple of hard dribbles to his left and pulling up, he's not very athletic, is an average rebounder, and a poor defender. As far as I can remember there's quite the precedent for players in college who were picked high pretty much only because of their shooting not panning out very well in the league. Not sure why he's compared to Dirk considering how athletic young Dirk was and how good his ball handling was for a 7 footer.

Frank on the other hand is a smart player, knows where to be on the court, good defender, good ball handler and a good shooter and this is all at the age of 18. That's not even considering his athletic and physical feats. Picking Frank vs Markkanen is a no-brainer to me.

[Underdog]

What's with the unwritten rule that Dirk's replacement needs to be a big, soft, white, jump shooting Euro?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Fragism

As far as I can tell the only thing Markkanen can do really well is shoot (granted he's really good at that one thing). His ball handling is basically limited to a couple of hard dribbles to his left and pulling up, he's not very athletic, is an average rebounder, and a poor defender. As far as I can remember there's quite the precedent for players in college who were picked high pretty much only because of their shooting not panning out very well in the league. Not sure why he's compared to Dirk considering how athletic young Dirk was and how good his ball handling was for a 7 footer.

Frank on the other hand is a smart player, knows where to be on the court, good defender, good ball handler and a good shooter and this is all at the age of 18. That's not even considering his athletic and physical feats. Picking Frank vs Markkanen is a no-brainer to me.

Yeah, I'll take Ntilikina's question marks over Markkanen's red flags in a heartbeat.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

What's with the unwritten rule that Dirk's replacement needs to be a big, soft, white, jump shooting Euro?

You didn't get the memo Mark sent out?

[sefant77]

Barnes is Dirks replacement position wise...

From a recent Dirk interview:

Great, great mid-range player, which gets lost some in our age now. Can go both ways, both shoulders. He’s got it all. The only thing he needs to add is a little more consistency in his 3-point shot, but, man, he’s a worker. He’s the first one in the gym, the last one to leave, and he’s going back every night to shoot. We love what he stands for, on and off the floor, so we’re thrilled to have him.

Pretty sure Barnes is going to shoot a gazillion threes during the summer...and if he is able to knock them consistently down, you got a total modern PF package on allstar level. Still young and three more years under contract.

So again, no need at all to blow this pick on Markkanen. And i dont think the Mavs are going to do this.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Barnes is Dirks replacement position wise...

From a recent Dirk interview:


Pretty sure Barnes is going to shoot a gazillion threes during the summer...and if he is able to knock them consistently down, you got a total modern PF package on allstar level. Still young and three more years under contract.

So again, no need at all to blow this pick on Markkanen. And i dont think the Mavs are going to do this.

Yeah, his NET PER and 5-man rotation stats all point to him being a modern PF more than a SF. He's mobile, he's 6'8"+ and he has a jumper which are all traits you look for in a PF. The only reason he's playing SF is to get Dirk and Noel on the floor, but once Dirk retires, I see him as our starting PF.

Of course, if you have that LeBron-level talent available to you at PF, you take it and either try to mold Barnes into a small forward/backup or you trade him for a player of a different position, but Markannen isn't a LeBron-level talent.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by sefant77

So again, no need at all to blow this pick on Markkanen. And i dont think the Mavs are going to do this.

Agree with the first sentence but not so much on the second.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts on our draft situation regarding Markkanen.

[hayth.james.g]

I think you guys are a tad over critical of Lauris game. I've watched 5-6 games this year and thought he looked quite good for his age. Give him 2-3 years in the right organization. I keep seeing all this Fox buzz based off 2 - 3 games and can't help but laugh. Guy has no range at all. Serious question mark in 2017 NBA.

I do like Ntilikina. He is more of a potential guy, but the attributes + scout feedback is hard to ignore. It's not as sexy as getting a years worth of college tape to consume, but for the potential + need he makes a ton of sense.

[Underdog]

With 7 games left, it's looking like we're going to finish somewhere between the 8-10 pick... We're 2.5 games behind the Knicks for the 7th pick, and 3 games ahead of Detroit for the 11th... Right now it's all about out-sucking the Pelicans and Wolves (both of which finish with a worse pick if we tie).

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Fragism

As far as I can tell the only thing Markkanen can do really well is shoot (granted he's really good at that one thing). His ball handling is basically limited to a couple of hard dribbles to his left and pulling up, he's not very athletic, is an average rebounder, and a poor defender. As far as I can remember there's quite the precedent for players in college who were picked high pretty much only because of their shooting not panning out very well in the league. Not sure why he's compared to Dirk considering how athletic young Dirk was and how good his ball handling was for a 7 footer.

Frank on the other hand is a smart player, knows where to be on the court, good defender, good ball handler and a good shooter and this is all at the age of 18. That's not even considering his athletic and physical feats. Picking Frank vs Markkanen is a no-brainer to me.

I agree with your assessment of Frank and was going to post some similar observation. He also seems really comfortable in the pick and roll beyond his years. I too would go Frank over Markannen. That said, if MBT has Markannen a tier above Frank, or anybody for that matter, then by all means pick him.BPA all the way.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I agree with your assessment of Frank and was going to post some similar observation. He also seems really comfortable in the pick and roll beyond his years. I too would go Frank over Markannen. That said, if MBT has Markannen a tier above Frank, or anybody for that matter, then by all means pick him.BPA all the way.

I just rewatched some clips of Frank on youtube. I see his floor as questionable, but his ceiling the highest of any PG in this class. He not only has length, but he uses it. He needs to continue to tighten down his dribble and passing accuracy, but watching him shoot + drive is gorgeous. Add that superior length in and you have a generational player.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by Underdog

With 7 games left, it's looking like we're going to finish somewhere between the 8-10 pick... We're 2.5 games behind the Knicks for the 7th pick, and 3 games ahead of Detroit for the 11th... Right now it's all about out-sucking the Pelicans and Wolves (both of which finish with a worse pick if we tie).

Then if we do end up 7th pick it should be Markkanen.

[Underdog]

Every team in the West ranked below us (Lakers, Suns, Kings, Wolves) lost tonight... Mavs are now a full game behind Minny for the 8th pick.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I just rewatched some clips of Frank on youtube. I see his floor as questionable, but his ceiling the highest of any PG in this class. He not only has length, but he uses it. He needs to continue to tighten down his dribble and passing accuracy, but watching him shoot + drive is gorgeous. Add that superior length in and you have a generational player.

I like him a lot. Really smooth pull up jumper. Reminds me of Steve Smith some.
Comfortable in pick and roll. Nice release makes me think he can extend to 3point range eventually. Great length. Good athlete. I agree with one weakness I read saying he lacks "suddenness"or burst. They may have used a different word. But then the tape is limited and he's freaking 18!

Fox if he learns to shoot could be prett great too. Potentially great defender. Will have to watch more of Frank on that end. Looks good thus far from what I've seen.

[Thebo]

Drafting Markkanen only makes sense for Mavs if they decide Noel's legs are not worth the max contract. Otherwise he would simply be a project whole season, Powell with a jump shot. I am fine with taking Markkanen if no suitable PG is left, but otherwise, Mavs have to look at talent and need.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Thebo

Drafting Markkanen only makes sense for Mavs if they decide Noel's legs are not worth the max contract. Otherwise he would simply be a project whole season, Powell with a jump shot. I am fine with taking Markkanen if no suitable PG is left, but otherwise, Mavs have to look at talent and need.

I don't understand why Noel has anything to do with it?

[sefant77]

Pistons/Bobcats/Nuggets sitting on 35 wins allready. Simply forbid the team to win three more games...

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I don't understand why Noel has anything to do with it?

If they decide against re-signing Noel, then Mavs are looking at bigs and point guards. I like the potential that Noel brings, but are you seriously going to pay max money to a guy who has to average 20 minutes to stay healthy?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Thebo

If they decide against re-signing Noel, then Mavs are looking at bigs and point guards. I like the potential that Noel brings, but are you seriously going to pay max money to a guy who has to average 20 minutes to stay healthy?

Hey Bogut played 20 for GS and was a difference maker. With position flex its totally doable to have Noel on the floor 25 per night. Not ideal. And 20 is pretty low. But maybe he'll be healthier and closer to 100% with a full healthy offseason. But draft or sign or trade for another big. Spurs have LA, Gasol and Dedmon. Find our Dedmon(who we actually had )

Playing your vets into the ground is old school NBA and guys like Thibs are like dinosaurs. Rick would do well to break himself of this habit. It's a younger, faster, quicker league. Wes, Noel, Dirk should all be at 30 or below minutes next season. Barnes 30-35.

[mac222b]

Someone mentioned Zach Collins over on the other board. Watched some highlights pretty damn impressive. Good athlete, ups, good timing defensively, moves feet prett well, low post moves, college 3pt range, plays with passion and edge, nice release, in great shape with room to get stronger. He's a riser and we'd have to consider him even at 7 I'd say

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Someone mentioned Zach Collins over on the other board. Watched some highlights pretty damn impressive. Good athlete, ups, good timing defensively, moves feet prett well, low post moves, college 3pt range, plays with passion and edge, nice release, in great shape with room to get stronger. He's a riser and we'd have to consider him even at 7 I'd say

I dunno about #7, given the other options, but I'd probably take him over Markkanen at #10.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Someone mentioned Zach Collins over on the other board. Watched some highlights pretty damn impressive. Good athlete, ups, good timing defensively, moves feet prett well, low post moves, college 3pt range, plays with passion and edge, nice release, in great shape with room to get stronger. He's a riser and we'd have to consider him even at 7 I'd say

I like Collins, but wouldn't that be pulling a Sixers? We just traded for Noel and now we're drafting another C, all while being forced to play Dirk there, too?

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I dunno about #7, given the other options, but I'd probably take him over Markkanen at #10.

If we're picking 10 and Ntilikina/Monk/Issac are gone I'd almost rather trade down for Leaf or Hartenstein before taking Markkanen and pick up another late round pick.
Collins is impressive though and wonder if we could trade down for him.
I just don't think there is much difference talent wise between 10 and 20.

[EricaLubarsky]

If we screw up this draft, next year is going to be a LONG year.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I like Collins, but wouldn't that be pulling a Sixers? We just traded for Noel and now we're drafting another C, all while being forced to play Dirk there, too?

He already has range to play 4 on O and you could mix/match depend on matchups.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by mac222b

He already has range to play 4 on O and you could mix/match depend on matchups.

I could see a rotation of Barnes/Collins/Noel at the 4/5.
What concerns me is Donnie is probably thinking the same with Markkanen.
Collins looks much more active than Markkanen from what I've seen and I think Barnes/Markkanen at 4/5 would be a train wreck.
Barnes/Collins is something that might work.

I don't see it as wasting the trade for Noel at all. I wouldn't take Collins at 7 but if we could trade down from 10 and pickup another pick I'd consider it. For instance if Portland would trade their top 1st round pick and either of the other two for our first, that might be something to consider if we are looking for another big and Fox, Ntilikina, Monk and Issac are off the board.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I could see a rotation of Barnes/Collins/Noel at the 4/5.
What concerns me is Donnie is probably thinking the same with Markkanen.
Collins looks much more active than Markkanen from what I've seen and I think Barnes/Markkanen at 4/5 would be a train wreck.
Barnes/Collins is something that might work.

I don't see it as wasting the trade for Noel at all. I wouldn't take Collins at 7 but if we could trade down from 10 and pickup another pick I'd consider it. For instance if Portland would trade their top 1st round pick and either of the other two for our first, that might be something to consider if we are looking for another big and Fox, Ntilikina, Monk and Issac are off the board.

Absolutely agree on trading down if Markkanen is the "best" player available where we pick... Although that's another reason why we should be aiming for #8 instead of winning games and settling for #10.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Absolutely agree on trading down if Markkanen is the "best" player available where we pick... Although that's another reason why we should be aiming for #8 instead of winning games and settling for #10.

The fear is that Markkanen is just a glorified Kelly Olynyk. His huge downside is that he moves like a mid 30s Dirk at age 19.

And there are plenty of lesser athletic but just as talented big men like Rabb, leaf, and Collins...so trading down might actually be smart in that scenario.

[EricaLubarsky]

At 10, we're going to either have to take second-tier players or we're going to have to take a leap on someone.

[EricaLubarsky]

Mark Cuban: "We've to get better at point (guard). There's no question. If we can't do it in the draft, we'll look at free agency."

@EKS

[Underdog]

What's more palatable -- tanking the rest of the season so we can get the highest pick possible, or maxing out Holiday/Hill/Teague at the risk of losing Noel?

[MavzMan]

You don't lose Noel at this point. He's not even averaging half a game yet since the trade. We need him to go into the off season and get a full training camp so that he reaches his potential. I'm truly excited to see Noel and HB learn to play together.

Those other guys honestly don't do a whole lot for me and would be seriously overpaid for what they bring.

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

You don't lose Noel at this point. He's not even averaging half a game yet since the trade. We need him to go into the off season and get a full training camp so that he reaches his potential. I'm truly excited to see Noel and HB learn to play together.

Those other guys honestly don't do a whole lot for me and would be seriously overpaid for what they bring.

In your view he is not getting enough minutes because he has not reached his potential yet?