2017 NBA Draft

[EricaLubarsky]

GMs Calling 2017 NBA Draft 'Strongest In A Decade'
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...st-In-A-Decade

he 2017 NBA Draft will be the "strongest in a decade", according to multiple NBA scouts and general managers. Chad Ford projects 10-15 potential All-Stars in the class, headlined by Markelle Fultz.

Ford elevated Fultz up from No. 3 in his previous big board to No. 1, while Lonzo Ball jumped from No. 6 to No. 2.

Josh Jackson fell from No. 1 to No. 3 with Malik Monk and Dennis Smith rounding out the top-5. Monk was ranked No. 15 in the previous big board.

1. Markelle Fultz
2. Lonzo Ball
3. Josh Jackson
4. Malik Monk
5. Dennis Smith
6. Jayson Tatum
7. Harry Giles
8. Jonathan Isaac
9. De'Aaron Fox
10. Miles Bridges
11. Lauri Markkanen
12. Frank Ntilikina
13. OG Anunoby
14. T.J. Leaf
15. Robert Williams
16. Ivan Rabb
17. Terrance Ferguson
18. Edrice Adebayo
19. Jarrett Allen
20. Marques Bolden

[Melonhead]

Ill be honest I dont get the hype for Josh Jackson. Ive seen him play three times now, and just last night I got to see him live at the KU at UNLV. Just not impressive, and especially when youre comparing him to Fultz/Ball/Smith etc.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Ill be honest I dont get the hype for Josh Jackson. Ive seen him play three times now, and just last night I got to see him live at the KU at UNLV. Just not impressive, and especially when youre comparing him to Fultz/Ball/Smith etc.

A wing shooting 50% on ft's worries me. Not saying he won't get better but that can't be very common among elite level wing prospects.

[Budapest Maverick]

I just hope that if we end up picking around 8-10th, we don't go for need or BPA, but simply choose the player with the highest upside. We don't need other role players, we have plenty.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

I just hope that if we end up picking around 8-10th, we don't go for need or BPA, but simply choose the player with the highest upside. We don't need other role players, we have plenty.

I don't want them to single out one attribute like the highest upside. I just want them to draft who they think is going to be the best player for us, not necessarily best player available but the best player for us. If you draft for need or highest upside you are going to get in trouble as a franchise. Going crazy over upside is how you overlook the flaws of guys like Milicic and Kwame Brown.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I don't want them to single out one attribute like the highest upside. I just want them to draft who they think is going to be the best player for us, not necessarily best player available but the best player for us. If you draft for need or highest upside you are going to get in trouble as a franchise. Going crazy over upside is how you overlook the flaws of guys like Milicic and Kwame Brown.

With Barnes, DFS, Anderson and Brussino all playing the same position and under 25, I don't see the Mavs drafting Jackson or any other SF unless there are several trades before now and then.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Going crazy over upside is how you overlook the flaws of guys like Milicic and Kwame Brown.

And it's also how you miss players like Giannis, Leonard or Gobert. Normally I would agree, but since we don't have a franchise player, I think you take the guy who has a chance to become that player, either based on their physical tools or skills. There are usually high ceiling prospects around 7-8-9th, certainly in next year's draft.

I don't think we need more role players at this point, we need to hit the lottery imo. I said it so many times, you can't win in this league without a franchise player. We need to draft or sign that player, preferably soon.

[BPo001]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=18367498&sf48629695=1

I think Dennis Smith's knee is ok. Nasty throwdown.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by BPo001

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=18367498&sf48629695=1

I think Dennis Smith's knee is ok. Nasty throwdown.

I think the more important question is who the hell is that football player on NC State's bench?! O____o

http://gopack.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3924&path=mbball

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BPo001

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=18367498&sf48629695=1

I think Dennis Smith's knee is ok. Nasty throwdown.

That's what he does.

[Bryan_Wilson]

That explosion is something I've really only seen from pre injury rose and RWB.

[Bryan_Wilson]

I really want more than 1 pick in this draft. I know it will be difficult but gosh... The whole lotto just looks so good!

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I really want more than 1 pick in this draft. I know it will be difficult but gosh... The whole lotto just looks so good!

Absolutely. Just another reason we need to trade assets and commit to putting ourselves in the best position to lose. I don't expect the players to try NOT to win, but we can surely help them by trading D Will and Bogut.

There are 3 PGs in this draft that can change our franchise. Fultz is clearly number 1 imo, followed by Ball and Smith jr. If we walk away from this draft with a developmental project who sees no more than 20 -24 minutes a game next year it will be a complete miss.

[Bryan_Wilson]

RJ Hunter was waived today by the Bulls. I can't even bring myself to say bring him in for a look for the youth movement. He may be 23 yrs old and could improve, but he can't even play well in the D league the last 2 years. Simba looks like Ray Allen compared to him the last 2 years.

Speaking of the '15 draft and the Bulls though... anyone know why in the world Portis isn't playing more??? When I've watched the Bulls he easily looks better than Mirotic.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I really want more than 1 pick in this draft. I know it will be difficult but gosh... The whole lotto just looks so good!

Some combination of our 2nd round pick, Bogut, DWill, Mejri, JJ, or Harris should somehow net us another pick in one way or another.

I'd love to see us get lucky and move Bogut and DWill to contenders to pick up a couple late round picks and then package one or both of them with our 2nd rounder on draft day to get a pick in the mid-teens. Seems there could easily be long-term starter quality material that deep in this draft.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

It's hilarious that the next Dirk comparison Isaiah Hartenstein is projected in the 15-25 range. Gonna be a ridiculous draft.

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

It's hilarious that the next Dirk comparison Isaiah Hartenstein is projected in the 15-25 range. Gonna be a ridiculous draft.

That comparison was made in July of '15. He has not done anything to justify being picked higher than 15. If he can not be a starter in a top team in Europe, why would any NBA team pick him as potential starter?

[Bryan_Wilson]

I think he has a chance to be a good player but I can't imagine a worse situation for a kid from Germany who already gets compared to Dirk than to be drafted to Dallas and be in Dirk's shadow.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

RJ Hunter was waived today by the Bulls. I can't even bring myself to say bring him in for a look for the youth movement. He may be 23 yrs old and could improve, but he can't even play well in the D league the last 2 years. Simba looks like Ray Allen compared to him the last 2 years.

Speaking of the '15 draft and the Bulls though... anyone know why in the world Portis isn't playing more??? When I've watched the Bulls he easily looks better than Mirotic.

As an Arkansas fan, it miffs me. He's one of the all time dudes off the court and was a highly regarded teammate, so (I hope) it can't be that. There is probably some stuff he isn't picking up on or behind the scenes in practice that makes Mirotic a more reliable option for Hoiberg.

I was excited when Portis fell in the draft only to be disappointed in taking Anderson. Love the potential but would rather have a more dependable rotational big. I think Portis would be an improved Powell at a significantly lower cost, obviously. Anderson has shown his flashes but I don't like his game, to be honest. Coming out of college it was supposed to be his three point shooting that would most likely translate. So far, it's his athleticism, which is great. But he has not yet learned to control it and use it in more effective ways.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Thebo

That comparison was made in July of '15. He has not done anything to justify being picked higher than 15. If he can not be a starter in a top team in Europe, why would any NBA team pick him as potential starter?

Didn't like the kid when his name started to come up more often last year. I also think it's a little disrespectful to Dirk as a comparison. He's arguably the best euro player to ever play in the NBA, so it's usually a cop out comp for draft "experts" - my point is, I didn't mind when Porzingis was compared to Dirk, since I see the talent and similarities. But this kid is no where close to how good Dirk was in those international games as a teen.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by saclare

Didn't like the kid when his name started to come up more often last year. I also think it's a little disrespectful to Dirk as a comparison. He's arguably the best euro player to ever play in the NBA, so it's usually a cop out comp for draft "experts" - my point is, I didn't mind when Porzingis was compared to Dirk, since I see the talent and similarities. But this kid is no where close to how good Dirk was in those international games as a teen.

Who is arguing that Dirk isn't the greatest Euro player ever? He is and it's not even close. He's a top 20 player all time.

[EricaLubarsky]

Only players who are even close are Marc Gasol and Sabonis. Dirk is better than both.

Dirk currently is the best Euro player of all time without a doubt.

But back to Hartenstein: he may be decent eventually, but dude is averaging 2.7mpg in Euroleague play and only getting 0points, 0.5 rebounds, and 1 foul. He's at least 3-4 years off of even making a difference in the NBA and even then it's a gamble. Big potential payoff, but you're going to have to wait years and even then your chances are higher than not that he'll be a complete flop like Bargnani. I'd take him at 31, but taking him top 15 is madness.

[EricaLubarsky]

[Bryan_Wilson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IdtzEyvxII

I watched this game, Washington is so bad. When he committed to Washington were they expected to be this bad? Or did they have some guys leave?

Edit- I will add though that sometimes Fultz goes too slow for me. Like when we played the Lakers Reggie Miller mentioned how Russell sometimes just seems a little lazy. Well I think I see some of that with Fultz. It looks like he's just on cruise control, which I have no problem when in certain situations. But during this game I thought more than a few times Fultz could have been aggressive and turned up the gear but he just didn't. And it usually ended in a missed shot or worse.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IdtzEyvxII

I watched this game, Washington is so bad. When he committed to Washington were they expected to be this bad? Or did they have some guys leave?

Edit- I will add though that sometimes Fultz goes too slow for me. Like when we played the Lakers Reggie Miller mentioned how Russell sometimes just seems a little lazy. Well I think I see some of that with Fultz. It looks like he's just on cruise control, which I have no problem when in certain situations. But during this game I thought more than a few times Fultz could have been aggressive and turned up the gear but he just didn't. And it usually ended in a missed shot or worse.

I watched the Washington/Gonzaga game a while back and got the same impression with Fultz. I've read some comparisons to Westbrook but I didn't see any of the same motor in Fultz as in Westbrook. Fultz does look smooth and I can see the Harden comparison but not Westbrook. However that was a small sample size for me so it's hard to tell.
Just interesting you noticed the same thing.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IdtzEyvxII

I don't really see a RWB style of player from him other than just body type/size. His play style is much more inline with a Dwayne Wade. He's very smooth and doesn't seem to rush anything while at the same time getting into good position.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Who is arguing that Dirk isn't the greatest Euro player ever? He is and it's not even close. He's a top 20 player all time.

I still hear pundits bring up Sabonis, Gasol, and even Ginobili at times. For what it's worth, I agree, Dirk is the greatest Euro to play. That's what led to my comment about the easy comp for some of these guys to throw out. Elsewhere I said it was a slight to Dirk if anything since this kid doesn't even start on his current Euro team while Dirk had a way more impressive resume at the same age.

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by saclare

I still hear pundits bring up Sabonis, Gasol, and even Ginobili at times. For what it's worth, I agree, Dirk is the greatest Euro to play. That's what led to my comment about the easy comp for some of these guys to throw out. Elsewhere I said it was a slight to Dirk if anything since this kid doesn't even start on his current Euro team while Dirk had a way more impressive resume at the same age.

lol Ginobili is from Argentina...another reason not to listen to those "pundits" I guess

[Bryan_Wilson]

I should have clarified lol. When i mentioned what Reggie miller said it wasn't Russell as in Westbrook it was Russell as in Deangelo. So i personally haven't seen the RWB comp's. I think Smith is easily mo re rwb then fultz.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I should have clarified lol. When i mentioned what Reggie miller said it wasn't Russell as in Westbrook it was Russell as in Deangelo. So i personally haven't seen the RWB comp's. I think Smith is easily mo re rwb then fultz.

I don't think Russell is the worst comparison. Stats give Fultz the edge, but they are very similar players. 6-4 or 6-5. Buttery smooth games. Don't always hustle/look like theyre hustling.



Fultz is more efficient and puts up more stats. Russell's contributions resulted in more wins for a better conference, but very similar players.

Anyway, doesn't matter much. We're trying to win so we'll probably end up drafting 10-15 where our chances of snagging a star are less than 20%

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IdtzEyvxII

I watched this game, Washington is so bad. When he committed to Washington were they expected to be this bad? Or did they have some guys leave?

Edit- I will add though that sometimes Fultz goes too slow for me. Like when we played the Lakers Reggie Miller mentioned how Russell sometimes just seems a little lazy. Well I think I see some of that with Fultz. It looks like he's just on cruise control, which I have no problem when in certain situations. But during this game I thought more than a few times Fultz could have been aggressive and turned up the gear but he just didn't. And it usually ended in a missed shot or worse.

Glad you mentioned this. It's some of what made me prefer Smith on an admittedly cursory scouting glance. Smith has some "edge" to him. Also Fultz doesn't seem to be the athlete Smith is. Less explosion and bounce. Harden is a decent comp for Fultz assuming he can improve his outside stroke. And flop.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Glad you mentioned this. It's some of what made me prefer Smith on an admittedly cursory scouting glance. Smith has some "edge" to him. Also Fultz doesn't seem to be the athlete Smith is. Less explosion and bounce. Harden is a decent comp for Fultz assuming he can improve his outside stroke. And flop.

Can't link from work computer but Fultz posted a nice view into his athleticism on his Instagram @markellefultz

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by saclare

Can't link from work computer but Fultz posted a nice view into his athleticism on his Instagram @markellefultz

Pretty sure he ran up the wall, but still impressive...

[EricaLubarsky]

I now think that there is a 0% chance we get Fultz. He's going in the top three and we aren't going to draft above 8-10. There are some truly awful teams out there tanking really hard. We're just not going to match that level of utter meltdown unless we actually tried and we're not going to consciously tank. I'd put our chances at making the playoffs at 50/50, but our chances of getting the top three picks at zero.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Pretty sure he ran up the wall, but still impressive...

For sure he did haha that'd be a what...60+ inch vertical? But yea impressive.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I now think that there is a 0% chance we get Fultz. He's going in the top three and we aren't going to draft above 8-10. There are some truly awful teams out there tanking really hard. We're just not going to match that level of utter meltdown unless we actually tried and we're not going to consciously tank. I'd put our chances at making the playoffs at 50/50, but our chances of getting the top three picks at zero.

Too many things would have to go wrong (or right?) for us to get back into the top 5 pick range. Barea would have to stay injured, Bogut and Williams traded, Harris traded/resting/hurt, and I would never want Dirk hurt. I'd rather see him play 15-20 mins a night and come back fresh for one more year.

I think the talent level and coaching is better than that of the other teams dropping in standings. That coupled with this soft January schedule will continue to drift up standings and away from the likes of 76ers, Nets, Suns, Timberwolves, etc.

Hope isn't lost though. We are merely 2 games from that last spot...

[saclare]

I think Jarret Allen will work his way up to the 10-12 range. He's got the height but would need to add size to his frame. Saw him flash some post moves and is constantly around the ball on rebounds. Blocks shots and provides rim protection. Haven't really seen a range for his jumpshot, but witnessed an old school lane crossing baby hook that was sweet. With this draft being guard and wing heavy, one of these bigs has to see his draft stock rise, no?

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by saclare

Too many things would have to go wrong (or right?) for us to get back into the top 5 pick range. Barea would have to stay injured, Bogut and Williams traded, Harris traded/resting/hurt, and I would never want Dirk hurt. I'd rather see him play 15-20 mins a night and come back fresh for one more year.

I think the talent level and coaching is better than that of the other teams dropping in standings. That coupled with this soft January schedule will continue to drift up standings and away from the likes of 76ers, Nets, Suns, Timberwolves, etc.

Hope isn't lost though. We are merely 2 games from that last spot...

It's actually pretty simple. If they trade Bogut and Dwill, we have a legit shot at staying inside the top 6-8 picks. This wouod give us a fair chance at picking Smith or Ball.

I will be absolutely disappointed if we don't make that trade. It makes no sense to the future of our franchise to not focus on the draft in a year where the draft has this kind of talent

[Underdog]

@KirkSeriousFace: Chad Ford has the Mavs selecting Frank Ntilikina. NYT did a profile of him yesterday http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/sp...l%20Newsletter


Ford's most recent mock (2 days ago):

1. Philadelphia 76ers* - Markelle Fultz
2. Boston Celtics (via Nets)* - Lonzo Ball
3. Phoenix Suns - Josh Jackson
4. Philadelphia 76ers (via Lakers)* - Malik Monk
5. Miami Heat - Dennis Smith
6. Dallas Mavericks - Frank Ntilikina
7. Orlando Magic - Jayson Tatum
8. Minnesota Timberwolves - Harry Giles
9. New Orleans Pelicans - Jonathan Isaac
10. Sacramento Kings* - De'Aaron Fox
11. Denver Nuggets - Miles Bridges
12. New York Knicks - OG Anunoby
13. Indiana Pacers - Lauri Markkanen
14. Chicago Bulls - Terrance Ferguson

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@KirkSeriousFace: Chad Ford has the Mavs selecting Frank Ntilikina. NYT did a profile of him yesterday http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/sp...l%20Newsletter


Ford's most recent mock (2 days ago):

1. Philadelphia 76ers* - Markelle Fultz
2. Boston Celtics (via Nets)* - Lonzo Ball
3. Phoenix Suns - Josh Jackson
4. Philadelphia 76ers (via Lakers)* - Malik Monk
5. Miami Heat - Dennis Smith
6. Dallas Mavericks - Frank Ntilikina
7. Orlando Magic - Jayson Tatum
8. Minnesota Timberwolves - Harry Giles
9. New Orleans Pelicans - Jonathan Isaac
10. Sacramento Kings* - De'Aaron Fox
11. Denver Nuggets - Miles Bridges
12. New York Knicks - OG Anunoby
13. Indiana Pacers - Lauri Markkanen
14. Chicago Bulls - Terrance Ferguson

Oh yay, another euro averaging basically no stats who will magically become a star

3.5ppg, 1.4rpg, 0.5 assists

Per 36? Still pretty low
9.5pts, 3.8reb, 1.3ast

But he'll become our PG of the future?