J.J Barea Coming Back Next Season - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

LonghornDub · 05-13-2010, 12:18 AM

Without immediately looking at a list, I would wager that JJ is one of the 10 best backup PG's in the league, as long as he is relegated to just playing backup PG and not whacky off-guard thing in the three-guard lineup. A top-10 backup PG is a steal at $1.8 mil, in my book.

And if he's not a Mav next year, that's fine too, long as we use him smartly in a trade.

mavsfan1000 · 05-13-2010, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Without immediately looking at a list, I would wager that JJ is one of the 10 best backup PG's in the league, as long as he is relegated to just playing backup PG and not whacky off-guard thing in the three-guard lineup. A top-10 backup PG is a steal at $1.8 mil, in my book.

And if he's not a Mav next year, that's fine too, long as we use him smartly in a trade.

I would put Barea as the top 10 weakest backup point guards.

Rick41 · 05-13-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I would put Barea as the top 10 weakest backup point guards.

Because you're ignorant. LDub hit the nail
on the head.

mavsfan1000 · 05-13-2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Because you're ignorant. LDub hit the nail
on the head.

A good way to measure that is by looking at his plus/minus. He is -6.7 in that category and his playoffs didn't help his cause in that category. He is easily one of the worst top 10 backup point guards in the league . Now he might be one of the best 3rd string backup point guards in the league if used that way.

Rick41 · 05-13-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

A good way to measure that is by looking at his plus/minus. He is -6.7 in that category and his playoffs didn't help his cause in that category. He is easily one of the worst top 10 backup point guards in the league . Now he might be one of the best 3rd string backup point guards in the league if used that way.

Quit spewing that plus/minus stat to me. I don't believe in that crap. You're getting dumber and dumber by the post...

grndmstr_c · 05-13-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Quit spewing that plus/minus stat to me. I don't believe in that crap.

You should, but not the way that mf1000 is using it. The problem is that even most supporters of JJB feel he's been relied on too much and overexposed, and has consequently been less effective on a value-per-minute basis than he would be if he were limited to being a 10-12 mpg backup point guard. Pointing out that his +/- was lagging is hardly an effective counter to that perspective.

ribosoma · 05-13-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

You should, but not the way that mf1000 is using it. The problem is that even most supporters of JJB feel he's been relied on too much and overexposed, and has consequently been less effective on a value-per-minute basis than he would be if he were limited to being a 10-12 mpg backup point guard. Pointing out that his +/- was lagging is hardly an effective counter to that perspective.

I agree. Just keep in mind who that cherry-picked stat is coming from. Just wait until Roddy has a few bad games, and he will turn on him, as well. Then there will be nobody in the Mavs organization who doesn't suck to him. It's the NBA2K10 basketball genius at work, knee-jerking his square logic into the round hole of reality.

mavsfan1000 · 05-13-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Quit spewing that plus/minus stat to me. I don't believe in that crap. You're getting dumber and dumber by the post...

You don't believe in plus/minus? There is no other better stat out there than that. It shows if a player is hurting the team or not. You can still put up points/rebounds/assists and still be hurting a teams rhythm. It also hints at on how the other team is maybe helping your stats by guarding everyone else better. So many different factors that don't show up in the box score on why you are hurting or helping the team being out there. Also all point guards can see over Barea and make their offense work better. Barea likes to hold the ball too long and runs the shot clock out. Barea won't get you many fastbreak points. That is why I think his plus/minus is so bad. It's not just a coincidence.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-13-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

You don't believe in plus/minus? There is no other better stat out there than that. It shows if a player is hurting the team or not.

This isn't baseball where all the batting averages are independent. Every basket scored affects five different +/- stats at the same time.

If two guys play the same minutes together on the court, they will have the same +/- stat no matter how much better one player is than the other. So no, it has its limits and is not the best stat out there.

Underdog · 05-13-2010, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I would put Barea as the top 10 weakest backup point guards.

Yeah, but you're Mavsfan1000, so who gives a sh!t what you have to say?

TITS or GTFO.

tcat075 · 05-13-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I would put Barea as the top 10 weakest backup point guards.

CadBane · 05-13-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Without immediately looking at a list, I would wager that JJ is one of the 10 best backup PG's in the league, as long as he is relegated to just playing backup PG and not whacky off-guard thing in the three-guard lineup. A top-10 backup PG is a steal at $1.8 mil, in my book.

And if he's not a Mav next year, that's fine too, long as we use him smartly in a trade.

Kyle Lowry, George Hill/Tony Parker, Darren Collison, Jose Calderon, Dragic, Ty Lawson, Luke Ridnour, Jerryd Bayless, Will Bynum, Earl Watson, Steve Blake, Jordan Farmar.

Yeah, not so much.

BGMaverick9 · 05-13-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Kyle Lowry, George Hill/Tony Parker, Darren Collison, Jose Calderon, Dragic, Ty Lawson, Luke Ridnour, Jerryd Bayless, Will Bynum, Earl Watson, Steve Blake, Jordan Farmar.

Yeah, not so much.

You have it with probably 5-6 names on the list. Lawson, Bayless, and Dragic could be there with potential...I'm already taking Collison out of that group because he showed it over a sustained time period. By the time they max out or get better it'll be time for a new deal and the money will go up.

You can get into a debate with the guys near the bottom of your list like Lowry, Bynum and maybe even Watson...but Lowry and Watson make about a million dollars more. Bynum is the REAL steal based on what he made, but with that what is gonna happen? He's gonna get PAID, thus the bargain will go away and expectations are gonna rise.

The fact that it's stuck at 1.8 and he can be a spark on both ends of the court, you mix those two together and that makes it a steal. I didn't say he's always a spark but he does have the potential to do that. So based on the bottom half of the list and the price-tag, it is debatable on top-10 status.

CadBane · 05-14-2010, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

You have it with probably 5-6 names on the list. Lawson, Bayless, and Dragic could be there with potential...I'm already taking Collison out of that group because he showed it over a sustained time period. By the time they max out or get better it'll be time for a new deal and the money will go up.

You can get into a debate with the guys near the bottom of your list like Lowry, Bynum and maybe even Watson...but Lowry and Watson make about a million dollars more. Bynum is the REAL steal based on what he made, but with that what is gonna happen? He's gonna get PAID, thus the bargain will go away and expectations are gonna rise.

The fact that it's stuck at 1.8 and he can be a spark on both ends of the court, you mix those two together and that makes it a steal. I didn't say he's always a spark but he does have the potential to do that. So based on the bottom half of the list and the price-tag, it is debatable on top-10 status.

I really can't have this debate with you if you can't concede that Dragic is a far far far better player than JJB.