Mavs Free Agency 11/12

[grndmstr_c]

Nene is better than Tyson, and Caron is not a 43% three-point shooter.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Nene is better than Tyson.

Maybe he is a better player but what Tyson brings to this team, there is no better player for the Mavs!

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Nene is better than Tyson, and Caron is not a 43% three-point shooter.

Do you think Nene is better enough to offset him not being the type of defensive player you normally need next to Dirk?

[sefant77]

Tyson has bigger balls than Nene.













Ops...

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Do you think Nene is better enough to offset him not being the type of defensive player you normally need next to Dirk?

I do, though I would expect the overall improvement to be modest, which is another way of saying: 1) probably not enough to justify the Nene's (I would assume) bigger payday, and 2) not enough to risk making Tyson feel like he's not a priority for the Mavs.

[CATCH-17]

Nene is not better than Tyson Chandler I'm sorry.

Plus Chandler is just a hard working throwback player.

Nene is better on offense but overall give me Chandler.

[CadBane]

I think this is a case of over-valuing your own player because you see them more.

Nene put up 15/8/2/1/1 on 62/72 shooting last year. That's damn good. Really damn good. I think Nene is a better *player* than Tyson. However, like Thig said, he isn't the same kind of player as Tyson. Nene is a much worse rebounder, and while their block numbers are similar, he doesn't really protect the rim like Tyson. Nene does have super quick hands and he gets a lot of steals for a big. His man D is also pretty good from what I've seen. His offense is Top 5 at the Center position, IMO.

For our team, Tyson is probably the better fit. But I wouldn't be crestfallen if we ended up with Nene.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by CATCH-17

Nene is not better than Tyson Chandler I'm sorry.

Plus Chandler is just a hard working throwback player.

Nene is better on offense but overall give me Chandler.

We'll see what NBA GMs think in about a week and a half. I'll be surprised if Nene doesn't end up being the most sought after of the free agent bigs.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Yea, if we're talking Nene versus Tyson, it's not even close. Cuban better pay Tyson what he wants because he was a very big part of our ship. It's similar to the type of intensity KG brought to Boston. Nene maybe talented, by Tyson brings so many intangibles to the table, it ain't funny. I'd let Caron go to keep Chandler around. Now as for other team's FA, AK47 is probably the one that intrigues me the most. The guy was at his best when there wasn't a lane clogger like Boozer, with Dirk, AK47 will have plenty of space to work with.

I agree completely about Ty versus nene. Nene is better offensively for sure but we dont need more offense, we need a better defense. I don't think nene has the attitude or the defensive communication that Tyson brings.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

And if Nene is that sought after, then Tyson is the safer choice. I'll go with the guy who won us a championship.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Because the fact that he "turned it around" was based largely on an unsustainable accuracy from three point range, it's far more likely that he simply got hot for a while.

We won't know until he's back on the court again. One thing that I've been impressed with Carlisle is how much focus he puts on the spot up jumper. He wants everyone to be ready because he knows jkiddo is going to put it on the money in a timely manner.

Carlisle focuses so much on the catch and shoot and not dribble penetration that I think he does help.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Tyson has bigger balls than Nene.













Ops...

I'm not sure about bigger but doesn't he have more of them?

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And if Nene is that sought after, then Tyson is the safer choice. I'll go with the guy who won us a championship.

Tyson's the safe choice regardless. He knows the Mavs, he likes the Mavs, he's clearly an excellent fit with Dirk, the gap between the consensus top free agent centers on the market and Tyson is (I think most would agree) smaller than the gap between Tyson and anybody that the Mavs might conceivably find to replace his minutes this season if he left, and Dallas has a built-in advantage when it comes to signing him because they've got Bird Rights.

[grndmstr_c]

Per Stein:

Teams are NOT allowed to enter into oral or written agreements with players before free agency starts but can speak to agents starting WEDS

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by CadBane

I think this is a case of over-valuing your own player because you see them more.

Nene put up 15/8/2/1/1 on 62/72 shooting last year. That's damn good. Really damn good. I think Nene is a better *player* than Tyson. However, like Thig said, he isn't the same kind of player as Tyson. Nene is a much worse rebounder, and while their block numbers are similar, he doesn't really protect the rim like Tyson. Nene does have super quick hands and he gets a lot of steals for a big. His man D is also pretty good from what I've seen. His offense is Top 5 at the Center position, IMO.

For our team, Tyson is probably the better fit. But I wouldn't be crestfallen if we ended up with Nene.

Excellent post. Balanced, thoughtful analysis. Must spread rep.

[b_o_r]

This current team window of opportunity is this year. I believe Tyson is looking for (a team is willing to give) a near max contract. Giving Tyson that kind of contract is a great risk since he never lived up to the worth of his prior 2 contracts.


I wish the Mavs were mentioned in some these wild rumors like the CP3 for Rondo piece.

[OneLove22]

Originally Posted by Kante

Maybe he is a better player but what Tyson brings to this team, there is no better player for the Mavs!

Exactly. Tyson is our dude. We don't need Nene.

[blessednegr0]

Ok. I rarely post here guys. But here we go... First things first I am very excited for the season to be back on. I can hardly wait for our boys to defend the ship.

Am I the only one who thinks we will be fine next year? We have time to rest for our older guys... And I really think they will gel more come next year. These are my FA priorities:

Chandler
Butler (Yes we need butler)
Cardinal
Peja (deep on the bench. only needed for quick score.)

I would let Stevenson, and Barea walk. Barea is vastly overrated. He had a couple of great playoffs series. But he is not all that great. I fully think a HEALTHY roddy can do what Barea did. And if he fails we have options like TJ Ford, or some other vets to bring in. Also lets not forget that JET can play PG.

[blessednegr0]

I get wet dreams of a lineup next year of Kidd/Fernandez/Butler/Dirk/Chandler. I mean come on? We finally have a 2 guard who can actually do something. Fernandez has been significantly held back in Portland. In our system I really think he will be lights out. He will have so many open lanes and open threes it will be nuts. When was the last time we had a 2 guard with size?

Not to mention, we have a bench of:
Roddy/JET/Brewer/Marion(Brandon Wright if cheap?)/Haywood.

I think we are going to be much harder to stop next year. Butler really takes this team to the next level. Lets not forget how inspired the team was at the effort that Butler put in to get back to play in the playoffs. Butlers energy and competitiveness are just as important as Tyson Chandler. My surprise/hopeful signings are: AK47 (amnesty Marion?), TJ Ford, Brandon Wright, Carl Landry, and if we can get AARON BROOKS to replace Barea then Good Game. I really think we have a damn good shot next year.

[OneLove22]

I don't think we should sign Peja he is too much of a liability on defense and we have other shooters. Also, I wouldn't be upset if we lose Barea but he would be nice to re sign.

[OneLove22]

Originally Posted by blessednegr0

I get wet dreams of a lineup next year of Kidd/Fernandez/Butler/Dirk/Chandler. I mean come on? We finally have a 2 guard who can actually do something. Fernandez has been significantly held back in Portland. In our system I really think he will be lights out. He will have so many open lanes and open threes it will be nuts. When was the last time we had a 2 guard with size?

Not to mention, we have a bench of:
Roddy/JET/Brewer/Marion(Brandon Wright if cheap?)/Haywood.

I think we are going to be much harder to stop next year. Butler really takes this team to the next level. Lets not forget how inspired the team was at the effort that Butler put in to get back to play in the playoffs. Butlers energy and competitiveness are just as important as Tyson Chandler. My surprise/hopeful signings are: AK47 (amnesty Marion?), TJ Ford, Brandon Wright, Carl Landry, and if we can get AARON BROOKS to replace Barea then Good Game. I really think we have a damn good shot next year.

Couldn't agree more with this post. Rudy can actually penetrate the lane from the 2 and we have never had that. He just adds another dimension to our team system. We must resign Chandler and Butler for chemistry issues I believe. Getting a player like Nene makes zero sense for that reason. Butler will for sure be added motivation for everybody to keep that level of play. But I'm not too worried about these guys getting complacent we have a good group.

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

Originally Posted by OneLove22

Couldn't agree more with this post. Rudy can actually penetrate the lane from the 2 and we have never had that. He just adds another dimension to our team system. We must resign Chandler and Butler for chemistry issues I believe. Getting a player like Nene makes zero sense for that reason. Butler will for sure be added motivation for everybody to keep that level of play. But I'm not too worried about these guys getting complacent we have a good group.

100% agree with this as well. With Rudy at the 2, a healthy Butler back, and Roddy taking over JJ’s role, I think this team is better than what we had in the playoffs last year. I completely agree that finally having 2 guard with size, athleticism, and ball skills (only took us about 10 years to find one) could be huge, assuming Rudy is at all motivated this year (It’s a very odd situation with a player already having his next deal with a different team signed up).

My only difference is that I really want DSteve back. Even though Rudy will get most of the minutes at 2, DS will be important against the likes of OKC, LA, and Miami. I have absolutely zero faith in Brewer’s ability to guard guys like Durant, Harden, Kobe, Wade, Lebron, etc. And DS proved he can sit for long periods but then still come in and play heavy minutes when the matchups dictate it.

[BGMaverick9]

Unofficial official news:
Mavs preseason dates w/ OKC: Sunday, Dec. 18: OKC @ DAL 6:30 pm, then Tuesday, Dec. 20: DAL @ OKC 7:00 pm

[Funkman]

Thanks BG. That pretty much tracks with what they've been saying about the preseason games being regional two game sets. If it holds true then Rocket-Spurs and Hornet-Grizzlies should be the rest of the division.

Will you be at the AAC tomorrow when the players are allowed back?

[iella]

I'm so excited that the Mavs are going to be playing again... So. Excited.

!!

[jacktruth]

I think Chandler showed well above average bball IQ last year. That's what made this team what it was. I'm not sure Nene is there.

Will Nene be as valuable without shots as Ty is?

Ty would be my first choice.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by jthig32

It locks up a roster spot and costs money against our budget, whatever it may be.

Even if Butler were healthy I would be reluctant to give him a significant multi-year deal. He was ineffective for us two years ago and his effectiveness last season was a small sample size based on defense and three point shooting that I don't believe he will continue.

I'm just not a believer in his fit. Marion is, and should continue to be our starting Small Forward. Also, Marion's effectiveness at PF is going to continue to decline as he gets older and loses quickness. So I don't think it makes sense to sign someone like Butler who is going to expect to play 25+ minutes a game at SF.

Excellent post. No way Butler should be offered more than 1 year to return.
AK47 would be a different matter. Could be real value there. His stock is low but he's shown he can be a difference maker when he's healthy and his head is screwed on right.

And yes to re-signing JJB, not only for continuity sake, but because he's sure to retain trade value. Similar to what Orlando did with Gortat, albeit on a smaller scale. Just hope that it's possible. Cant see the Mavs going much more than 3 yrs/4mil per though.

Would love to have D-Steve back on a 1year deal but am afraid he's priced himself out of our range. He really helped set the tone defensively and would be missed but there seem to be younger options with greater upside already on the roster.

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by b_o_r

This current team window of opportunity is this year. I believe Tyson is looking for (a team is willing to give) a near max contract. Giving Tyson that kind of contract is a great risk since he never lived up to the worth of his prior 2 contracts.

As much as it saddens me I have to agree with you on this. I think if Tyson was all that intrested in staying a Mav he would have resigned with us before the lockout, when he knew what kind of contract he could get. He has been rather elusive about his desire to remain in Dallas. I think if he is going to demand a long term/max contract, then you have to consider other possibilities. Hell, the guy could take any offer he wants regardless of the money.i.e Miami, Chicago, or some other longer window team. If you are putting your hopes of repeating on resigning one guy, then you might as well give up already. I have faith that Cuban is not going to let one contract determine the season.

[mac222b]

Also it's nice to see everyone back and to have NBA basketball back again. Cant wait to see our Mavs defend their title!!!!!

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Funkman

Thanks BG. That pretty much tracks with what they've been saying about the preseason games being regional two game sets. If it holds true then Rocket-Spurs and Hornet-Grizzlies should be the rest of the division.

Will you be at the AAC tomorrow when the players are allowed back?

When pen is to Paper on everything, I'll be back.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Because the fact that he "turned it around" was based largely on an unsustainable accuracy from three point range, it's far more likely that he simply got hot for a while.

In the game right before he got injured when he scored 30 against the Spurs, he shot 1-3 from three point range. A few games before that, he scored 23 against the blazers shooting 0-2 from 3 point range on 10-19 shooting. I'm not basing his turnaround on his 3 point shooting. He looked good all over the court in those games.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by xrobx

In the game right before he got injured when he scored 30 against the Spurs, he shot 1-3 from three point range. A few games before that, he scored 23 against the blazers shooting 0-2 from 3 point range on 10-19 shooting. I'm not basing his turnaround on his 3 point shooting. He looked good all over the court in those games.

So now we're taking the sample size for evaluating his fit all the way down to two games, one (the better) of which Dirk didn't even play in?

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

So now we're taking the sample size for evaluating his fit all the way down to two games, one (the better) of which Dirk didn't even play in?

Those were just two examples, not the entire sample size.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by blessednegr0

I get wet dreams of a lineup next year of Kidd/Fernandez/Butler/Dirk/Chandler. I mean come on? We finally have a 2 guard who can actually do something. Fernandez has been significantly held back in Portland. In our system I really think he will be lights out. He will have so many open lanes and open threes it will be nuts. When was the last time we had a 2 guard with size?

Not to mention, we have a bench of:
Roddy/JET/Brewer/Marion(Brandon Wright if cheap?)/Haywood.

I think we are going to be much harder to stop next year. Butler really takes this team to the next level. Lets not forget how inspired the team was at the effort that Butler put in to get back to play in the playoffs. Butlers energy and competitiveness are just as important as Tyson Chandler. My surprise/hopeful signings are: AK47 (amnesty Marion?), TJ Ford, Brandon Wright, Carl Landry, and if we can get AARON BROOKS to replace Barea then Good Game. I really think we have a damn good shot next year.

Aaron Brooks can't officially get out of his China contract. But I'm sure if he wanted it badly enough, something can be done. He can comeback some time in March when their season is completed. Do you pocket the MLE for a shot in the arm like KMart, Wilson Chandler, JR Smith or Brooks?

[mac222b]

Someone above mentioned Battier. Would love to have that guy here for the right price, in lieu of Caron.

[41mvp]

2 preseason games against the Thunder.Sound fine...

[MavsFTR]

"Six teams have expressed early interest in UFA Caron Butler: Nets, Clippers, Bulls, Heat, Spurs and Knicks, per sources. Though two of those teams have room (Nets, Clips), both are chasing bigger prizes. So Butler probably looking at MLE or close to it. Line of communication also open between Mavs and Butler's reps as everyone feels out new rules and opening of team-agent dialogue." - Tweets from Ken Berger

[MavsFTR]

Tweet from Chris Broussard:

NJ will pursue free agents Nene & Tyson Chandler in hopes of landing 1. Could use either as trade bait to land Howard or players around him.

[dude1394]

Roddy b is fools gold imo. Jjb will be in the league a long time...roddy...not so sure about it.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

Tweet from Chris Broussard:

NJ will pursue free agents Nene & Tyson Chandler in hopes of landing 1. Could use either as trade bait to land Howard or players around him.

So they're just signing a center to add to Lopez as a package? Broussard's got to check his sources, that don't make any sense.