OFFICIAL: Deron Williams to Dallas!!

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Joe Blow

If you want to "see it," take a look at this clip.

This game was against top-flight competition (Hawks) just a few months ago. It's still all there: Great shooting (35 points 7-11 on 3's), amazing clutch shots under extreme pressure, great floor vision (no look passes after penetration) , filthy crossovers and drives to the hoop, posting up smaller guards, play-making (7 assists, 2 turnovers), solid defense (3 steals), incidental contributions (5 rebounds), etc.

This has already been posted, but no one ever reads all the posts, so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ3Eypj5jGk

I find it hard to look at that game and conclude that "this guy is washed up and you can't expect much from him."

To be fair, he shot poorly in half of the games against the Hawks. In fact, he was absolutely dreadful shooting-wise in those games. He needs to prove he can play more consistently for the naysayers to quiet down.

[Joe Blow]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

To be fair, he shot poorly in half of the games against the Hawks. In fact, he was absolutely dreadful shooting-wise in those games. He needs to prove he can play more consistently for the naysayers to quiet down.

Well, yeah, but like I said in a prior post:

"Even his "terrible" games made a strong contribution to the team effort. In the final game of the playoff series, for example, he took only 7 shots and only scored 2 points. That said, he had 10 rebounds, 8 assists and two steals. Just because you didn't do "everything" doesn't mean you didn't do anything."

Many teams would be thrilled to have a point guard who did that and nothing more.

But the point I'm really trying to make is that there is a difference between:

(1) The guy is washed up and can't perform any more, and
(2) This guy didn't consistently perform at the highest level.

Deron didn't score 35 points every game, obviously, but he's capable of it. The reasons for his lack of consistency are not entirely known, but he is capable of that too (see Utah days, and his first couple of years in the East).

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Joe Blow

If you want to "see it," take a look at this clip.

This game was against top-flight competition (Hawks) just a few months ago. It's still all there: Great shooting (35 points 7-11 on 3's), amazing clutch shots under extreme pressure, great floor vision (no look passes after penetration) , filthy crossovers and drives to the hoop, posting up smaller guards, play-making (7 assists, 2 turnovers), solid defense (3 steals), incidental contributions (5 rebounds), etc.

This has already been posted, but no one ever reads all the posts, so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ3Eypj5jGk

I find it hard to look at that game and conclude that "this guy is washed up and you can't expect much from him."

To be fair, I don't think I said that. Maybe you're addressing someone else.

I don't doubt he'll have some great games... I'm talking about a sustained high level of play. We haven't seen that from him, throughout an entire season, in years. I hope Rick and our training staff crack the code to making that happen, but at this point I wouldn't consider him an above-average starting point guard until I saw him perform at a high level consistently.

And again... I really hope I'm wrong about how good he'll be. I'm just tempering expectations.

[Joe Blow]

Originally Posted by spreedom

To be fair, I don't think I said that. Maybe you're addressing someone else.

No, you didn't, and I apologize if it seemed like I was implying that you did say that. But that is the conclusion I hear from some sources--I was really "addressing" them, not you personally.

[Joe Blow]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I'm talking about a sustained high level of play. We haven't seen that from him, throughout an entire season, in years.

Not saying the two situations are strictly comparable, but we didn't see that from Derrick Rose for "years" either.

3 Seasons ago, Deron had an outstanding season in Brooklyn, especially after Avery Johnson was replaced, and especially after the all-star break. Technically two years qualifies for a plural form, but, technicalities aside, the "years" phrasing tends to connote "many" years, for most, anyway.

Deron had some physical and mental difficulties for the last couple of years, yeah. But to simply refer to such things out of context can be quite misleading. Here's some comments from one pundit:

"Long gone are his formerly lethal crossovers and incisive drives...Age and injuries have turned Williams passive and deferential as a creator...It would surely be better if Williams could get to the basket and finish there effectively, which hasn't been the case in years.... He cannot be an impact scorer on any regular basis or run an efficient offense as a dominant ball handler."

These claims seem hyperbolic to me, but actually the guy thinks Deron can be quite useful to Dallas. http://www.si.com/nba/2015/09/22/der...-rick-carlisle

So many claims made on the internet seem to be framed in absolute, all-or-nothing terms. Personally, I don't buy it.

I used to post on a Utah Jazz site, and I can't begin to tell you how many posters solemnly pronounced that Deron Williams, Paul Millsap, and Wesley Mathews would NEVER be all-stars and that, with luck, they might eventually prove to be serviceable journeymen, but little more was to be expected from them. I didn't know so many people had the ability to see the present and, from that, infallibily predict the entire future.

[Joe Blow]

Originally Posted by Joe Blow

So many claims made on the internet seem to be framed in absolute, all-or-nothing terms. Personally, I don't buy it....

I can't begin to tell you how many posters solemnly pronounced that Deron Williams, Paul Millsap, and Wesley Mathews would NEVER be all-stars and that, with luck, they might eventually prove to be serviceable journeymen, but little more was to be expected from them.

Just to follow up on this post a little. Millsap was drafted 46th (or so) in the second round. Mathews was undrafted. This was apparently the "basis" for many posters' opinions about their future abilities. But it really didn't take a highly astute observer to see that these two had some "special" qualities that made it likely that they would be very successful.

Williams was drafted 3rd, and perhaps many of the negative predictions came from posters who had insisted the Jazz should draft Paul or Felton over Deron. Sloan played him sparingly in his first year, and Deron didn't try to set the world on fire. His rookie year was not all that remarkable (although he was first team all-rookie).

But again, it seemed to me that any unbiased observer could see his potential and would have predicted a bright future for him. The point I'm trying to make is one I've mentioned before: Many people seem to formulate unshakable opinions based on reputation, minimal information, and/or some pre-existing agenda. Often they don't seem to even try to think for themselves.

[G-Man]

I'm looking at Deron and hoping for 36 year old Jason Kidd, who could not score at the rim, but was always looking to create. I think Deron has more physical skills than old man Kidd, but remains a great playmaker-passer and a decent defender.

If he gives us what Kidd did, I'd be ok with that. Anything more, is gravy on top.

[Joe Blow]

Originally Posted by G-Man

I'm looking at Deron and hoping for 36 year old Jason Kidd, who could not score at the rim, but was always looking to create. I think Deron has more physical skills than old man Kidd, but remains a great playmaker-passer and a decent defender.

If he gives us what Kidd did, I'd be ok with that. Anything more, is gravy on top.

I think that's a positive, yet realistic, way of looking at it, and I agree. Although he became a really decent 3-point shooter in his twilight years, Ason Kidd was never known as a scorer. Yet he's a hall of fame caliber point guard. There's so much more to being a great point guard than scoring, yet most of the complaints about Deron boil down to the observation that in the last couple of years he didn't score as much as he used to.

Last year Deron had the lowest ppg average of his career (rookie year excepted), but he still scored more than Jason's career average (and more than Kidd did in 12 different seasons).

And again, just because Deron didn't score as much as usual does not mean he can't score any more. If I have a few 100 bills in my wallet, but don't leave the waiter a $100 tip, it's not because I can't give him a $100 tip. It's simply that I didn't, for reasons perhaps known only to me.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by G-Man

I'm looking at Deron and hoping for 36 year old Jason Kidd, who could not score at the rim, but was always looking to create. I think Deron has more physical skills than old man Kidd, but remains a great playmaker-passer and a decent defender.

If he gives us what Kidd did, I'd be ok with that. Anything more, is gravy on top.

The difference is that Kidd had a prime Dirk to pass the ball to. That is why it is essential for Deron to score the ball.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The difference is that Kidd had a prime Dirk to pass the ball to. That is why it is essential for Deron to score the ball.

DWill will need to play at an all-star level for us to have any chance this season imo. Chandler and Matthews will have key roles for sure but Deron is the best hope at elevating us to top 6 contention.

[Kidd Karma]

NBA 2K seems to think DWill's crossover will be a player this year....not sure why he's wearing #31at the 1 minute mark)

http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2015...?xid=si_social

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

DWill will need to play at an all-star level for us to have any chance this season imo. Chandler and Matthews will have key roles for sure but Deron is the best hope at elevating us to top 6 contention.

If Wes can get back to 100% and Parsons can take that next step as a player, then all Deron needs to do is reverse his scoring slide and we'll at least make the playoffs... But I agree that him getting back to an All-Star level would elevate this team in the West. And unlike All-Star hopefuls like Monta Ellis or Chandler Parsons (or even DeAndre Jordan), we're talking about a guy who has actually done it before.

Also, D-Willy is a guy who makes players around him better, which doesn't always show up on a stat sheet (like Kidd with his "hockey assists"). Hell, his court vision alone should be able to maximize Dirk and Wes in spot-up situations.

[Murphy3]

If he's 2013-2014 Deron, I think you're pretty happy. You'll see the assist numbers go up. He shot for a good percentage. The Mavs will take that in a heartbeat.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

If Wes can get back to 100% and Parsons can take that next step as a player, then all Deron needs to do is reverse his scoring slide and we'll at least make the playoffs... But I agree that him getting back to an All-Star level would elevate this team in the West. And unlike All-Star hopefuls like Monta Ellis or Chandler Parsons (or even DeAndre Jordan), we're talking about a guy who has actually done it before.

Also, D-Willy is a guy who makes players around him better, which doesn't always show up on a stat sheet (like Kidd with his "hockey assists"). Hell, his court vision alone should be able to maximize Dirk and Wes in spot-up situations.

It will be nice to have a decent sized backcourt for a change. DWill, WM, DH, and JA all have good size and JJB is a great change of pace guy with Jenkins in a specialist role.

Really like our backcourt but our frontcourt is a huge concern. I see Zaza, Felton and Charlie as salary substance for a mid-season trade. Can't imagine who could be available.

Is it possible to trade for Chandler mid-season if Suns become a mess and are willing to get out of that deal?