First there was no cambodia, then there was no seal insertion, what next????

[dude1394]

seals call bs on kerry story

Monday, August 16, 2004
SEALs & Swift boats

Apparently, the latest version of Kerry's Cambodia Chronicles includes the insertion of Navy SEALs by Swift boat into Cambodia in the early part of 1969. Well, I am a former Navy SEAL that served in the 1990s, my father in law is a former SEAL and he served in the Mekong Delta in Vietnam in 1970. I spoke with him about the likelihood that this story could be correct. My contention was that Swift boats were too large to be routinely used as an insertion platform for SEALs.

SEALs typically used the Medium SEAL Support Craft (MSSC) or the LSSC. My dad's platoon, had one of each assigned. These boats were designed by SEALs and specially built for the Teams to use on clandestine riverine insertions at night of usually no more than 8 operators. Swift boats operated in groups as independent entities, and not as insertion/extraction platforms for small units.

Jim Rassman's ODA was probably on there because SF A teams don't have organic boat assets and were using the Swifties because they had no other means of getting where they needed to go. Also, it is my understanding that the engagement with Kerry getting the Bronze Star took place during the day, which leads me to believe the insertion mission was either a large infantry force led by the SF guys, or a civic action type mission for which SF is well known.

Waterborne infiltrations done illegally into a "neutral" country if performed would be done by small groups of operators (less than 8), at night, in a small tributary, by a boat with a very shallow draft and jacuzzi, not propeller drive. To do otherwise, would be ridiculous.

SEALs also did not trust anyone outside of their immediate peer group. They developed their own intel by snatching high ranking VC out of their beds in the middle of the night. They did not share this info outside the platoon, boat guys, and Seawolves helo crews (close fire support assets). They learned early on that passing intel up the chain was a sure way to be compromised on future operations.

In order to get permission to conduct an illegal incursion into Cambodia by Swift boat the following must occur: 1. Extremely fresh intel of a high value target (think U.S. POW, or VC chieftain). 2. Take that intel outside the group and up to intel at a higher level (risking compromise) in order to obtain boat support from the Swifties to go into Cambodia. That is extremely unlikely to the point of absurdity.

Furthermore, neither myself or my father in law knows anyone who was inserted anywhere by a Swift boat during Vietnam. It just wasn't done. It wasn't something SEALs wanted, and it wasn't something Swifties did.

[Drbio]

Yet another John Kerry reversal to debut soon I guess.

[Drbio]

It is amazing how many military personnel are bashing Kerry as a liar and unfit for command.

[LRB]

One of my hobbies is military history. Over the last 15 years I've done an extensive study of SEALS in the Vietnam conflict. What this gentleman says about SEAL operations jives 100% while Kerry's does stand out like a red bullseye on a white barn as not being consistent. It's sad that Kerry lied about Cambodia. If even sadder that he couldn't admit that he lied with confronted with the truth. But it's beyond pathetic the cheap and sophmoric ways that Kerry's campaign attempts to tell stupid lie after stupid lie in a vain attempt to cover up the 1st lie. Oh what a wicked web we weive when we 1st attempt to decieve. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Drbio
It is amazing how many military personnel are bashing Kerry as a liar and unfit for command.

Not really if you think about it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[dude1394]

You know if he would have just said, well yea, I made it up and I'm sorry they probably wouldn't be. But instead his campaign has impugned vietnam vets ONCE AGAIN!! Again calling them them liars, scoundrals and the like, the only missing is the war crimes, rapes, ears cut off, etc. Just like he did in '71. I'm sure that the vets are seeing it all over again and are pissed.

Of course it helps that he's flailing around making up disneyland stuff. "Magic hat transported me to cambodia'.

[LRB]

Just like 30 years ago in Vietnam, kerry continues to shoot himself in the ass.

[FishForLunch]

The burden of proof is on the swift boats veterans side, dont ever think the MSM media is going to investigate anything fishy about Kerry.

[Drbio]

They have presented pretty damning evidence. The MSM is just too pigheaded and liberal to report the facts. All they want is Kerry in the White House. The MSM knows Kerry will sell papers. There will be so many errors and idiotic happenings with Kerry that they will have front page above the fold stories on a daily basis.