4 Team trade situation... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Silk Smoov · 07-02-2007, 05:42 PM

I would like to hear some thoughts on this. I want to just throw this out there. Chum, I would like your take as well on how it would all fit under the CBA

4 Teams:

Mavs/MN/Lakers/Mil

In this situation, I am thinking about what these teams are wanting.

Mavs get Kobe/Yi---Kobe would not go to MN or Mil. Yi is liked by Del Harris
Lakers get KG--KG would like the spotlights in LA. LA keeps a Superstar
MN---Howard and an expiring contract
Mil---Gets Harris. Harris fits them, and Harris would be back home..

Is there a way for this to happen? Does this make each team better? All teams except maybe Lakers, but they are out of options, and KG would be the biggest name they could bring back that is on the trade block.

dude1394 · 07-02-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I would like to hear some thoughts on this. I want to just throw this out there. Chum, I would like your take as well on how it would all fit under the CBA

4 Teams:

Mavs/MN/Lakers/Mil

In this situation, I am thinking about what these teams are wanting.

Mavs get Kobe/Yi---Kobe would not go to MN or Mil. Yi is liked by Del Harris
Lakers get KG--KG would like the spotlights in LA. LA keeps a Superstar
MN---Howard and an expiring contract
Mil---Gets Harris. Harris fits them, and Harris would be back home..

Is there a way for this to happen? Does this make each team better? All teams except maybe Lakers, but they are out of options, and KG would be the biggest name they could bring back that is on the trade block.

I think kobe is signed for another 4 years or so I believe. If I'm the lakers I let kobe sulk and stink if he wants to. That just gets me a lottery pick.

jthig32 · 07-02-2007, 09:30 PM

Dallas get Kobe AND Yi for Josh and Devin.......

Wow.......

And no, it doesn't work, because the Dal/LA part has to be equal salary, I believe. I'm not entirely sure how it would all work because Milwaukee is under the cap, so they can take back salary, but I'm pretty sure the Dal/LA part still has to be within the parameters of teams over the cap.

Male30Dan · 07-02-2007, 09:54 PM

You sure we can't get LA to toss Bynum in too?

Silk Smoov · 07-02-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I think kobe is signed for another 4 years or so I believe. If I'm the lakers I let kobe sulk and stink if he wants to. That just gets me a lottery pick.

See the thing is that I think that Kobe has two years left before he can actually opt out of the contract, so that puts the Lakers in a little bind, but not that much. I think Kobe has the player option for the 2009 season. If the Lakers wait until after next season, teams will low-ball the Lakers the death, because teams wont want to have Kobe for only one year b4 he can opt out.

Silk Smoov · 07-02-2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Dallas get Kobe AND Yi for Josh and Devin.......

Wow.......

And no, it doesn't work, because the Dal/LA part has to be equal salary, I believe. I'm not entirely sure how it would all work because Milwaukee is under the cap, so they can take back salary, but I'm pretty sure the Dal/LA part still has to be within the parameters of teams over the cap.

See this is where it gets a little sticky because Mil is below the cap. Also keep in mind that LA would be getting KG in the deal.

Hopefully Chum comes in and let us know if it is a way for this to happen..

SeriousSummer · 07-02-2007, 10:47 PM

This is almost impossible to work out--and Dallas is the problem. The only way, in theory, for this to work is for someone to send Minnesota a heck of a lot of salary--and it pretty much has to be Dallas because Garnett's salary is bigger than Kobe's (so it can't be L.A.) and Harris and Yi are probably pretty close to a wash.

So Minnesota gets Howard (and with Harris gone and Dirk untouchable) and, unless Minnesota wants Dampier and Terry (or one of them and Austin Croshere--like this is believeable), it's no go.

Plus, Minnesota is short on talent in return for Garnett in this deal (and Dallas's 2008 and 2010 first round picks don't help much because they willl be between 25 and 30). So Yi has to go to Minnesota, if there is any hope of the deal going through.

And Yi won't want to go to Minnesota, so he can't be used to balance the talent.

And L.A. needs to send out a contract about the size of Bynum (who they won't trade) to make the numbers work.

In short, it doesn't work.

I tried at least a half dozen combinations, and I couldn't find anything vaguely workable.

chumdawg · 07-02-2007, 10:51 PM

Silk, no one needs me to guess whether there is a chance for this to happen. You simply add up all the salaries and get within 25%.

As for the deal itself--once you fill it out with enough contracts to make it work, of course--I think it's interesting in that it pretty much highlights the worst case scenario for all the other three teams. (Obviously, it works pretty well for Dallas.) You look at any one of those deals and say: yeah, they might have to take that. LA might have to take KG if they are going to deal Kobe. Minny might have to take Harris (or similar) if they have to deal Yi. Minny might have to take Howard and expirers if they have to deal KG.

Where it gets screwed up is to think that Minny could have Kobe instead of Howard and filler. It would make sense at all for them to take Howard and filler instead of Kobe. But then again, Kobe does have that no-trade clause, so it's feasible.

You can make ANY deal work under the cap, if you are willing to add enough pieces to it. This one looks awfully flimsy as a four-team deal. But again, it's intriguing because at least one of those teams is probably going to have to end up taking something like that.

chumdawg · 07-02-2007, 11:01 PM

Okay, taking a look at the salaries and such. Basically, if Dallas can swing a deal for KG, then sure, this four team trade works without a problem. Basically, it's three deals:

1) Deal Howard and whatever else you have to, to get KG. Best-case scenario, you need to add about $12MM to Howard. Do it however you can.

2) Swap KG straight up for Kobe. Their salaries are close enough, it looks like.

3) Swap Harris for Yi. This should be pretty straightforward, too.

So, yeah, basically if Dallas can land KG then they could make this four-team trade happen if they and the Lakers and Bucks wanted to.

Flacolaco · 07-02-2007, 11:12 PM

How many games did we win last season?

chumdawg · 07-02-2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

How many games did we win last season?

Two.

Silk Smoov · 07-02-2007, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Silk, no one needs me to guess whether there is a chance for this to happen. You simply add up all the salaries and get within 25%.

As for the deal itself--once you fill it out with enough contracts to make it work, of course--I think it's interesting in that it pretty much highlights the worst case scenario for all the other three teams. (Obviously, it works pretty well for Dallas.) You look at any one of those deals and say: yeah, they might have to take that. LA might have to take KG if they are going to deal Kobe. Minny might have to take Harris (or similar) if they have to deal Yi. Minny might have to take Howard and expirers if they have to deal KG.

Where it gets screwed up is to think that Minny could have Kobe instead of Howard and filler. It would make sense at all for them to take Howard and filler instead of Kobe. But then again, Kobe does have that no-trade clause, so it's feasible.

You can make ANY deal work under the cap, if you are willing to add enough pieces to it. This one looks awfully flimsy as a four-team deal. But again, it's intriguing because at least one of those teams is probably going to have to end up taking something like that.

This is what I got for a start:

Successful Scenario
Due to Dallas, Milwaukee, Minnesota and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Dallas, Milwaukee, Minnesota and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID
Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario. The Trade ID for this scenario is 4062047.

Helpful Tips
Entering the Trade ID to display a scenario is simple. Just log into realgm.com, enter the Trade ID into the provided box on the left hand side then press go.

Try Another Trade or visit our Trade Forum to share your scenario.

chumdawg · 07-02-2007, 11:22 PM

What did you fill the Mavs' outgoing with? Howard and what?

Silk Smoov · 07-02-2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Silk, no one needs me to guess whether there is a chance for this to happen. You simply add up all the salaries and get within 25%.

As for the deal itself--once you fill it out with enough contracts to make it work, of course--I think it's interesting in that it pretty much highlights the worst case scenario for all the other three teams. (Obviously, it works pretty well for Dallas.) You look at any one of those deals and say: yeah, they might have to take that. LA might have to take KG if they are going to deal Kobe. Minny might have to take Harris (or similar) if they have to deal Yi. Minny might have to take Howard and expirers if they have to deal KG.

Where it gets screwed up is to think that Minny could have Kobe instead of Howard and filler. It would make sense at all for them to take Howard and filler instead of Kobe. But then again, Kobe does have that no-trade clause, so it's feasible.

You can make ANY deal work under the cap, if you are willing to add enough pieces to it. This one looks awfully flimsy as a four-team deal. But again, it's intriguing because at least one of those teams is probably going to have to end up taking something like that.

That is how I see it because here is how I see it:

1. LA has to get another Superstar there even if they lose Kobe.
2. MN wants young and expiring contracts.
3. Yi is wanting out of Milwaukee
4. Kobe is #1 target for Dallas.

LA gets KG
MN gets Howard/expiring contract
Mil gets Harris. Harris gets to go home.
Dallas gets Kobe.

The kicker is that I think that LA and MN are backed into a corner that they cant get out of. I think MN messed up by not making something happen before the draft. I think the LA is backed in a corner because they cant get KG, and if they wait a year to try to trade Kobe, then they are forced to see if they can get a taker who is willing to have Kobe for only one year knowing Kobe can opt out the next year, all while Kobe having the last say so with a "No Trade" clause. This is where Dallas is on Kobe's list of teams he would play for. Again, this is a plus for the Mavs. Yes, we lose Harris/Howard, but just about every team is wanting these two pieces.

Silk Smoov · 07-02-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What did you fill the Mavs' outgoing with? Howard and what?

I didn't, I just wanted to see how the salaries matched up, since I could not input a sign/trade involving an expiring contract from the Mavs that we could have in Croshere or Van Horn contract. I am wondering about having a team like Mil in the deal since they are under the cap. I wonder how this could help this deal out. Someone mentioned that no matter what, a team would have to trade equal value within that 25% rule for the player they are getting. Is this correct?

rabbitproof · 07-02-2007, 11:31 PM

Uh.. I'm kind of sure Yi is worth a semi-superstar. Boston got a 7-time All-Star, unloaded Wally and a #35 for the #5.

Harris ain't getting it done and I think Harris can be a starter for us. Maybe Harris/Diop and some change (Ager/Faz/cash/future1/misc).

chumdawg · 07-02-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I didn't, I just wanted to see how the salaries matched up. I am wondering about having a team like Mil in the deal since they are under the cap. I wonder how this could help this deal out. Someone mentioned that no matter what, a team would have to trade equal value within that 25% rule for the player they are getting. Is this correct?

If you are under the cap, you can take back more salary as long as it doesn't leave you more than $100K over the cap. Milwaukee isn't taking back big salary, so this is not really important as far as your trade goes.

I'm just wondering what Minnesota took back when they traded $22MM away. Howard by himself wasn't going to cut it. You had to have added something to it, to get it to work. What did you add?

Silk Smoov · 07-02-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If you are under the cap, you can take back more salary as long as it doesn't leave you more than $100K over the cap. Milwaukee isn't taking back big salary, so this is not really important as far as your trade goes.

I'm just wondering what Minnesota took back when they traded $22MM away. Howard by himself wasn't going to cut it. You had to have added something to it, to get it to work. What did you add?

On the GM checker, I did not move the players to a certain team, I wanted to check the salary match first. Also the checker does not allow me to add an expiring contract that we could use with Croshere or Van Horn. This is the salary that I want to move to MN as well to make it work if needed.

chumdawg · 07-02-2007, 11:41 PM

In that case, I don't really understand what you did as far as this trade checker goes.

Silk Smoov · 07-03-2007, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

In that case, I don't really understand what you did as far as this trade checker goes.

I think it just checked the salary match up as a whole. That is what I am thinking. I wanted to add the expiring contracts to check it out as a complete trade, but it wont let me.

But do the Mavs have to give out as much salary to match whats coming in, in a 3/4 team trade? That is what I am wondering about. I know straight up, we have to follow that rule for being over the cap.

chumdawg · 07-03-2007, 12:19 AM

Of course they still do, and so does everyone else. Even if the incoming players come from different teams, you still have to comparing incoming salary and outgoing salary.

Post the whole trade you put through on RealGM (not just the results). I'm curious what it looked like.

Silk Smoov · 07-03-2007, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Of course they still do, and so does everyone else. Even if the incoming players come from different teams, you still have to comparing incoming salary and outgoing salary.

Post the whole trade you put through on RealGM (not just the results). I'm curious what it looked like.

Trade ID
The Trade ID for this scenario is 4062047.

Just log into realgm.com, enter the Trade ID into the provided box on the left hand side then press go.

chumdawg · 07-03-2007, 12:49 AM

Ahhh...didn't know RealGM would accept a form like that. Try it again with some pieces actually coming BACK to the teams, and maybe we will get somewhere. That doesn't tell us anything so far.

Silk Smoov · 07-03-2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Ahhh...didn't know RealGM would accept a form like that. Try it again with some pieces actually coming BACK to the teams, and maybe we will get somewhere. That doesn't tell us anything so far.

Yeah, when I did try to play around with sending pieces to teams, like the way that I said, it comes up as a failed trade, because I am not able to package that expiring contract in order for this to work. If I was able to input a potential expiring package deal from the Mavs, I think the trade would work. I think the Mavs would have to package an expiring contract that is worth about 4 million and this deal works.