Damned... Detroit Fans are Trash.

[FishForLunch]

I dont know any cup of beer that would cause a welt

[GP]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
I am glad that I am a Maverick fan, and that with the exception of Fortson, our players have shown incredible class.

Truer words have never been spoken!!!!

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: FishForLunch
I dont know any cup of beer that would cause a welt

Watch the video. It was a cup of beer that hit Artest.

[Misfit Mav]

[i]Originally posted by: rakesh.sarrest the fans, give the pacers players 3-5 games suspensions with no pay....

This is what I am saying is the problem. An arrest is much more serious for an average person than a 3-5 game suspension for a professional athlete. If Artest and and Stephen Jackson were throwing unprovoked punches at fans, they should also face prosecution.

[Murphy3]

From what I'm hearing most everywhere else, Artest didn't even go after the right guy. If that's the case, how much more of a suspension does he deserve?

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Of course, but you would also deserve a stiff suspension/fine if you did what Ron Artest did.

Most definately, and i'll happily take my suspension. I'm not saying these guys should go without some sort of suspension. I agree there they deserve something harsh. I'm not trying to defend these players i'm just trying to state that the fans were also in the wrong here.

[rakesh.s]

Originally posted by: Misfit Mav

This is what I am saying is the problem. An arrest is much more serious for an average person than a 3-5 game suspension for a professional athlete. If Artest and and Stephen Jackson were throwing unprovoked punches at fans, they should also face prosecution.

well what do you want to do about the fans then? suspend them? put them under house arrest?....they are at fault, they deserve what they get

if no one threw anything and artest walked into the stands for a brawl because someone was saying something to him, then yeah you go ahead and arrest him...but if he's provoked by bottle hitting him, then no he doesn't deserve an arrest..a suspension suffices

[GP]

Nunez was hit in the head by a bottle being thrown like a baseball and someone threw a metal chair at O'Neil. People and players need to go to jail. It is illegal to start a riot, no matter how wet you get.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
From what I'm hearing most everywhere else, Artest didn't even go after the right guy. If that's the case, how much more of a suspension does he deserve?

I had a feeling that was the case but i'll say this. That guy Artest went after, he laughed right in his face until Artest decked him.

[cheesestar]

i dont think the root of the problem was needed.
artest fouling ben with about 50 seconds left and the pacers leading by 15+

[EricaLubarsky]

reporting on the radio says that the guy Artest attacked is one of the 6-8 fans in the hospital with injuries.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Most definately, and i'll happily take my suspension. I'm not saying these guys should go without some sort of suspension. I agree there they deserve something harsh. I'm not trying to defend these players i'm just trying to state that the fans were also in the wrong here.

Of course. The fans that needlessly threw ANYTHING at the players should be banned for life from attending NBA games. They should be arrested...they should be fined...some of them should be sued....

[twelli]

1. Wallace was wrong
2. Fan was wrong
3. Artest was wrong

If each of those three guys would have kept his cool, Detroit would have made a technical free and the game would have been finished without incident.

All players involved should be suspended
All fans throwing things should be banned from attending games in the future
Detroit should be punished by playing some home games without fans attending

I wonder why Larry Brown was so furious with the microphone. Did he want to say something to the crowd and the guys behind the table didn't let him?

BTW, here's how soccer players in England (Eric Cantona) take matters in their own hands...
Wait until Artest figures out how dish out kungfu kicks...

[img]http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=eric+cantona/v=2/SID=w/TID=I001_70/l=IVS/SIG=11kvl6fno/*-http%3A//www.uit.no/mancity/pictures/cantona2.jpg[/img]

[Misfit Mav]

Originally posted by: rakesh.s

well what do you want to do about the fans then? suspend them? put them under house arrest?....they are at fault, they deserve what they get

if no one threw anything and artest walked into the stands for a brawl because someone was saying something to him, then yeah you go ahead and arrest him...but if he's provoked by bottle hitting him, then no he doesn't deserve an arrest..a suspension suffices

I totally agree-- press charges against anyone who commited assault, player or fan. Throwing a glass bottle is most definitely an assault, and so is punching someone who didn't throw it.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: cheesestar
i dont think the root of the problem was needed.
artest fouling ben with about 50 seconds left and the pacers leading by 15+

Yea, IMO Ben was the root of this problem. Him pushing Artest is what started this whole thing.

[Nash13]

Ben Wallace doesn't need to be suspended for 5-10 games and i will be extremely upset if he is. He responded to a flagrant foul, something players do all the time. He did go after Artest, so he should be suspended for one or two games.

Artest although he did commit the foul, did not get into the altercation at all, he was just laying down(arrogantly). Let's get something straight, no one, and i mean NO ONE, deserves to have beer thrown at them. Although i believe Artest, in theory, started this whole thing, doesn't deserve to get suspended anymore or less than Wallace.

Jackson probably deserved the most time off. I love him to death, but he did try to get into it with Derrick Coleman, Ben Wallace, and Lindsay Hunter. And when he went into the stands, he tried to separate Artest from fans, but when someone threw beer on him too, he attacked.

O'Neal probably only deserves a fine. Because the only thing he did was hit a fan that 1, was on the court which isn't suppose to happen under any circumstance, and 2, attacked Artest and Anthony Johnson.

My thoughts are that it's so sad. I couldn't even enjoy the Mavs win because of this. I was extremely upset and in tears because i saw little kids crying because they were scared for their lives. Also, NBA players are probably looked down upon the most of any athlete, but i believe that this is the one time where NO player was at fault as far as altercation with fans go. I myself was brought up in a way that i don't have to put up with anybody's crap. Now i'm probably the most nonviolent person you'll ever meet. So when someone pours beer on me, as mad as i would be, would never attacked another human being, but that's just me.

I don't blame a single player for what happened. When you combine players from both teams, that's a total from anywhere between 24 and 30 players. And when you're performing in front of thousands, you guys are all you got. So you have a natural right to defend yourself. That's what it comes down to.

[Misfit Mav]

Does anyone remember what happened to that New York Ranger who beat up a fan in the 80's? That was similar, but wholly unprovoked if I remember correctly.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: Nash13

Artest although he did commit the foul, did not get into the altercation at all, he was just laying down(arrogantly). Let's get something straight, no one, and i mean NO ONE, deserves to have beer thrown at them. Although i believe Artest, in theory, started this whole thing, doesn't deserve to get suspended anymore or less than Wallace.

Artest shouldn't be suspended any more or any less than Wallace? In all honesty, that is f'ing ridiculous. If Artest is suspended any less than 10-15 games, it will be an absolute trajesty and embarrassment to the game.

[FishForLunch]

Not everybody has the patience as some of us on this board.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Nash13
Ben Wallace doesn't need to be suspended for 5-10 games and i will be extremely upset if he is. He responded to a flagrant foul, something players do all the time. He did go after Artest, so he should be suspended for one or two games.

Artest although he did commit the foul, did not get into the altercation at all, he was just laying down(arrogantly). Let's get something straight, no one, and i mean NO ONE, deserves to have beer thrown at them. Although i believe Artest, in theory, started this whole thing, doesn't deserve to get suspended anymore or less than Wallace.

Jackson probably deserved the most time off. I love him to death, but he did try to get into it with Derrick Coleman, Ben Wallace, and Lindsay Hunter. And when he went into the stands, he tried to separate Artest from fans, but when someone threw beer on him too, he attacked.

O'Neal probably only deserves a fine. Because the only thing he did was hit a fan that 1, was on the court which isn't suppose to happen under any circumstance, and 2, attacked Artest and Anthony Johnson.

My thoughts are that it's so sad. I couldn't even enjoy the Mavs win because of this. I was extremely upset and in tears because i saw little kids crying because they were scared for their lives. Also, NBA players are probably looked down upon the most of any athlete, but i believe that this is the one time where NO player was at fault as far as altercation with fans go. I myself was brought up in a way that i don't have to put up with anybody's crap. Now i'm probably the most nonviolent person you'll ever meet. So when someone pours beer on me, as mad as i would be, would never attacked another human being, but that's just me.

I don't blame a single player for what happened. When you combine players from both teams, that's a total from anywhere between 24 and 30 players. And when you're performing in front of thousands, you guys are all you got. So you have a natural right to defend yourself. That's what it comes down to.

Did you see what Wallace did? I've never seen a player respond to a flagrant foul like Ben Wallace did. He muffed the hell out of Artests face. You can't give him a pass on this. I know he's a likeable, I like him myself but he's the root of this problem and if he just takes his 2 free throws and possession this incident doesn't happen.

Although i believe Artest, in theory, started this whole thing, doesn't deserve to get suspended anymore or less than Wallace.

I somewhat agree with this. They both should be suspended for the same amount of games.

[rakesh.s]

Originally posted by: Misfit Mav

I totally agree-- press charges against anyone who commited assault, player or fan. Throwing a glass bottle is most definitely an assault, and so is punching someone who didn't throw it.

I don't agree with that..I hate these punks that think they're tough if they go after athletes and this was clearly the problem here.

I'm just gonna wait and see what happens. I side with the players but I feel they deserve suspensions and fines but they were merely defending themselves. It's all fun and games till someone loses an eye. You don't stand around when someone is assaulting you.

[cheesestar]

there was no point whatsoever to artest's foul, ben shouldn't have reacted in the same way but there was absolutely no reason to foul ben wallace on that play, especially in a technical way

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: FishForLunch
Not everybody has the patience as some of us on this board.

Then you'd deserve a lengthy suspension as well. I completely UNDERSTAND why Artest went off, but that is no justification for what he did. I'm not saying that I know 100% that I wouldn't have reacted the same way. However, if I did, I would deserve a lengthy suspension as well.

Plus, it doesn't appear that Artest even went after the right guy.

[mavs413]

If you have ever been in a fight before you know that you are not in a stable state of mind afterwards, but Artest still should not have climbed into the seats.
Stephen Jackson was just looking for a fight, he was the most out of control from the very begining. He needs to be disciplined the hardest, in that situation you need to break up the fight, not create a bigger one.
But, Ben Wallace was still the instigator of this whole situation. He reacted to a foul, not even a flagrent one at that by shoving Artest in the neck with both hands as hard as he possibly could. This is a horrible incident in every way and those images of kids crying because they are scared AT A BASKETBALL GAME is really saddening.
Last but not least, why is beer still being sold during the 4th quarter? I thought they stopped selling at the end of the 3rd.

[rakesh.s]

I can't believe everyone keeps saying it's a flagrant foul on artest. That's just because it's artest..

Look at the foul, he hit wallace's arm to prevent a dunk. He plays hard and no easy baskets.

Wallace didn't land akwardly and he didn't face a career threatening injury. Step to the line and make Ft's and walk away.

If this same foul is committed by another player, it's a "hard foul"......BS

[twelli]

there was something fishy about Artest not retaliating right away at Wallace

maybe he should have pushed him back a bit, both are ejected, no fans involved

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Artest did what any other basketball player would've done. Danny Ferry was no angel either.

What in the bloody hell does Danny Ferry have to do with any of this? Get your vicarious jollies from Artest going after some white kid all you want. And I'll get mine when his sorry ass winds up suspended.

[Chicago JK]

JO clocking fan

http://s92801878.onlinehome.us/joclocks.avi

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: mavs413
If you have ever been in a fight before you know that you are not in a stable state of mind afterwards, but Artest still should not have climbed into the seats.
Stephen Jackson was just looking for a fight, he was the most out of control from the very begining. He needs to be disciplined the hardest, in that situation you need to break up the fight, not create a bigger one.
But, Ben Wallace was still the instigator of this whole situation. He reacted to a foul, not even a flagrent one at that by shoving Artest in the neck with both hands as hard as he possibly could. This is a horrible incident in every way and those images of kids crying because they are scared AT A BASKETBALL GAME is really saddening.
Last but not least, why is beer still being sold during the 4th quarter? I thought they stopped selling at the end of the 3rd.

I would be shocked if the foul is not changed to a flagrant foul.

Yes, Wallace overreacted and should be punished accordingly. BUT, he did not go into the stands after a fan. Yes, his overreaction was a huge factor in instigating the situation, but I do not believe that he should be suspended in a manner that is not within the norm for what he did to Artest. I don't think you can suspend him because the incident later heightened when the fan threw beer on Artest.

As for Jackson, that guy has to go down hard along with Artest. O'Neal looked out of control as well...we'll see what happens to him. There may or may not actually be a bit more justification for what he did...We'll have to wait and see.

[dirk2003]

Would Stern do something stupid like suspend all NBA games until the whole security issue is fixed?

I sure hope not.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Of course. The fans that needlessly threw ANYTHING at the players should be banned for life from attending NBA games. They should be arrested...they should be fined...some of them should be sued....

I agree. Earlier I stated I think Wallace and Artest should get the same amount of games. I take that back. Looking at the play again Wallace just responded to a flagrant foul. I'd probably give him about 5 games. I hate giving him so little time because he started all of this but I don't think you can suspend him for more than 5 games because what he did is what most players do in that situation except he responded with a bit more force IMO. Artest and SJax have to get suspended atleast until the All Star Break. If the fans didn't deserve what happened to them i'd probably suspend Artest and Stephen for the season.

[Evilmav2]

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
I can't believe everyone keeps saying it's a flagrant foul on artest. That's just because it's artest..

Look at the foul, he hit wallace's arm to prevent a dunk. He plays hard and no easy baskets.

Wallace didn't land akwardly and he didn't face a career threatening injury. Step to the line and make Ft's and walk away.

If this same foul is committed by another player, it's a "hard foul"......BS

I agree completely. Whoever stated earlier in this thread that Dirk gets fouled that way all the time is correct, and I believe Wallace greatly, greatly overreacted to the foul by laying into his successor as Defensive Player of the Year as hard as he did. Even if the fan brawl hadn't erupted, I would still think that Wallace would deserve a good 3-5 game hit for his actions, and if Artest hadn't revenged himself upon that beer-thrower, I would say he would in no way deserve to be suspended...

[mavs413]

Originally posted by: dirk2003
Would Stern do something stupid like suspend all NBA games until the whole security issue is fixed?

I sure hope not.

That would be incredibly unnecessary.. so the answer is no.
IMO, security is the least of Stern's problems right now.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
I can't believe everyone keeps saying it's a flagrant foul on artest. That's just because it's artest..

Look at the foul, he hit wallace's arm to prevent a dunk. He plays hard and no easy baskets.

Wallace didn't land akwardly and he didn't face a career threatening injury. Step to the line and make Ft's and walk away.

If this same foul is committed by another player, it's a "hard foul"......BS

A flagrant foul where unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs. Artest made no play on the ball so the play can be easily categorized as unnecessary. You don't have to hurt someone or even attempt to hurt someone for a flagrant foul to be called. The way a flagrant foul is usually called is when a player is in the air going for a shot and the defender makes absolutely no play on the ball. The Artest foul was unnecessary and he made absolutely no play on the ball.

[Nash13]

Murph, i looked at Artest and Wallace in a basketball standpoint, because like i said, no player deserves to get suspended for going after fans. Artest commited a flagrant foul. And Wallace reacted. They both are in the wrong over that one. I don't know how you've viewed Artest from past incidents, but it seems as though you're biased against artest.

FFM, Wallace is my favorite player in the league and 2nd favorite Athlete next to Ray Lewis, so maybe i am a little biased. But Wallace is a massive man, and anything he does to someone physically will look a lot worse than what it is. And after comparing that to Kobe/Childs and Kobe/R. Miller and TMAC/B. Jackson and Shaq/B. Miller, what he did didn't seem nearly as worse than any of those incidents. So he shouldn't be punished as harshly compared to those events, which were all around 5-8 games. He was reacting to a hard foul which players do normally, so he deserves minimum punishment.

[GoPistons]

1. Ben didnt start the thing it was artest's gay cheapshot with like 45 seconds left up by 15....Ben doesnt deserve large suspension, he should only get 1-2 games for chasing after Artest
2. Artest should get a large suspension (8-10 games) for knocking out 2 fans and trying to attack more. The funny thing is he runs away from Ben when ben shoves him but attacks fans becuz someone threw a cup?? that jus proves once again that he is an idiot....I know fans arent suppose to be on the court but punching that guy was very stupid i dont c artest's life being threatened by ice, popcorn, and beer so therefore he cannot say it was self-defense
3. Jackson also should get larg suspension because i dont think anyone provoked him, but he decides to run up with Artest and knocks out a couple fans and like artest keeps beating the crap out of fans. He also punched a guy on the court
4. O'neal should get 1-2 games like Ben, cuz as the fans were walking what gives u any reason to knock a guy out??? even if he was on the court, that was jus stupid
5 the fan who threw the cup was a moron, but the other fans are getting too much blame....if 2 world class athletes are chargeing into the stands are they gonna jus stand there and watch the guy get beat up?? if i were in the position i woulda done the same thing and try to get artest to get off of the guy....the chair shoulda never been thrown and that was very stupid.....

i am clearly a pistons fan, but jus imagine if this was happenin to the mavs u wouldnt jus let 2 extremely strong athletes beat the crap out of a guy would u?? youd prolly try to defend him....and the things being thrown if artest did this to the mavs i bet u any money there would b people throwing and jeering at them also after the way he attacked those fans....

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

What in the bloody hell does Danny Ferry have to do with any of this? Get your vicarious jollies from Artest going after some white kid all you want. And I'll get mine when his sorry ass winds up suspended.

That white kid deserved exactly what he got. I recommend you rewatch what happened. No one is getting off on watching this crap happen but the fans of Detroit don't deserve any sympathy. You can defend them all you want but they deserve what they got.

[MavKikiNYC]

That white kid deserved exactly what he got. I recommend you rewatch what happened. No one is getting off on watching this crap happen but the fans of Detroit don't deserve any sympathy. You can defend them all you want but they deserve what they got.

You've already acknowledged that the first kid Artest went after did not appear to be the person who threw the beer. So he deserved to be punched for laughing that Artest had beer poured on him? You sure have a different set of values than I do, buddy, and I think it's pretty clear where it's rooted.

Let's just say I sure hope Artest gets what's coming to him, and you can be damned sure you know where I'm coming from.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: GoPistons
1. Ben didnt start the thing it was artest's gay cheapshot with like 45 seconds left up by 15....Ben doesnt deserve large suspension, he should only get 1-2 games for chasing after Artest
2. Artest should get a large suspension (8-10 games) for knocking out 2 fans and trying to attack more. The funny thing is he runs away from Ben when ben shoves him but attacks fans becuz someone threw a cup?? that jus proves once again that he is an idiot....I know fans arent suppose to be on the court but punching that guy was very stupid i dont c artest's life being threatened by ice, popcorn, and beer so therefore he cannot say it was self-defense
3. Jackson also should get larg suspension because i dont think anyone provoked him, but he decides to run up with Artest and knocks out a couple fans and like artest keeps beating the crap out of fans. He also punched a guy on the court
4. O'neal should get 1-2 games like Ben, cuz as the fans were walking what gives u any reason to knock a guy out??? even if he was on the court, that was jus stupid
5 the fan who threw the cup was a moron, but the other fans are getting too much blame....if 2 world class athletes are chargeing into the stands are they gonna jus stand there and watch the guy get beat up?? if i were in the position i woulda done the same thing and try to get artest to get off of the guy....the chair shoulda never been thrown and that was very stupid.....

i am clearly a pistons fan, but jus imagine if this was happenin to the mavs u wouldnt jus let 2 extremely strong athletes beat the crap out of a guy would u?? youd prolly try to defend him....and the things being thrown if artest did this to the mavs i bet u any money there would b people throwing and jeering at them also after the way he attacked those fans....

You being a Pistons fan you are going to be a bit biased. The opinions here are coming from people who aren't necessarily Pistons fans or homers for that matter.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: Evilmav2

I agree completely. Whoever stated earlier in this thread that Dirk gets fouled that way all the time is correct, and I believe Wallace greatly, greatly overreacted to the foul by laying into his successor as Defensive Player of the Year as hard as he did. Even if the fan brawl hadn't erupted, I would still think that Wallace would deserve a good 3-5 game hit for his actions, and if Artest hadn't revenged himself upon that beer-thrower, I would say he would in no way deserve to be suspended...

No, Artest does not deserve to be suspended for his foul...one that will probably be changed to a flagrant.
Yes, Wallace deserves a suspension for overreacting. Yes, I'm sure he will receive one.

As for attacking the fan, we can only pray that the NBA does not agree that Artest does not deserve a suspension. It would be an even bigger black eye to not suspend the clown...as well as Jackson and possibly O'Neal....maybe others.

Hell, I don't even think that Artest went after the right guy.