Dirk should be more playmaker, next year back to scorer. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

odb 7777 · 05-08-2007, 05:06 PM

Donnie Nelson on Musers:

Basically said that this season they asked Dirk to be more of a playmaker to create for others but that moving towards next year's roster, their #1 goal will be to get back to getting Dirk some easy shots that can be created by either of two things:

a low post presence or a dish and kick type.

But anyway, just mainly saying somebody needs to be getting dirk some easier looks than he's been getting.

Was this the reason why Dirk was so damn passiv this season?!
I guess that is what Dirk meant, “It’s my job to get my teammates involved…blah, blah, blah…”

Taking scoring responsibility away from Dirk was a mistake. The right thing to do is to ask Dirk to "pass more" in the mold of Jordan. Dirk needs to score 30 ppg and pass when he gets triple teamed. Stars win playoff games and taking responsibility away from Dirk and giving it to lesser players proved to be the Mavs undoing.

mrkneebar · 05-08-2007, 06:24 PM

Stars do win games. But Dirk isi no star. He is a very good player, sure, but not a star.

kenny9 · 05-08-2007, 06:42 PM

So then who was it that won playoff games last year..against memphis...san antonio game 3 getting the offensive rebound and put back...game 7...granted he was fouled...but the ball went in...ohh an game 5 against PHX....just a good player?

mrkneebar · 05-08-2007, 06:45 PM

Yup. A very good player. One with no heart.

nashtymavsfan13 · 05-08-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkneebar

Yup. A very good player. One with no heart.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Don't you be talking about Dirk's heart. He's one of the hardest working superstars in the game, and a top 5 player in this league.

fluid.forty.one · 05-08-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkneebar

Stars do win games. But Dirk isi no star. He is a very good player, sure, but not a star.

So Lebron isn't a star? Steve nash isn't a star? they haven't won anything yet

dude1394 · 05-08-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkneebar

Stars do win games. But Dirk isi no star. He is a very good player, sure, but not a star.

And you are a lame poster, who has no heart or brains.

dude1394 · 05-08-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkneebar

Yup. A very good player. One with no heart.

More posts from the poster with less than half a brain.

Murphy3 · 05-08-2007, 10:01 PM

Instead of paying any attention to what that worthless piece of crap has to say, it's probably a better idea to focus on the topic of the thread. It appears that Nelson has paid a little attention to what I've had to say on this board. Well, probably not...but his thoughts echo what I've had to say. Dirk has absolutely no one that can help create a shot for him on any type of consistent basis... and Dirk's asked to create looks for everyone else at the same time. What does that do? It puts your team in a situation to where if your opponent can slow down just one player, the total offense will go into the crapper.

Many people on this site and elsewhere have talked about how Dirk cannot create his own shot. Frankly, that's garbage. Dirk has been the only one that's been able to create shots for #41 since Steve Nash left. And he has scored with amazing efficiency. But, teams have figured out that if you double him even alot of the time when he doesn't have the ball, there's truthfully not just a ton that he or basically anyone else can do. So, it's time to bring someone in to take just a little bit of that pressure off of Dirk. That doesn't mean that Dirk isn't 'the man'. It just means that even 'the man' can use a little help from time to time. And let's be honest, when it comes to creating looks for other people, no one in a Mavs uniform can do much to create for other people other than the opportunities that Dirk himself creates for others...

dude1394 · 05-08-2007, 10:23 PM

What does disturb me murphy is the sort of "knee-jerking" that seems to go on with dirk on a consistent basis. Last year he's supposed to make everyone better, he does and ups his assists to the duncan range. This year it's "woah now big hoss, we need you to go back to being a scoring machine".

Although I agree with the statement, it smacks of indecision about what/who they are.

Murphy3 · 05-08-2007, 10:41 PM

Well, I think the big reason for the knee jerking is that the Mavs over-estimated the players that play alongside Dirk. It's much easier to be a playmaker for everyone else if everyone else is capable of making teams pay for doubling Dirk... But when they're not..well, you see what happens.

fluid.forty.one · 05-08-2007, 10:41 PM

I for one am excited for Dirk to go back to the scoring machine.

vjz · 05-08-2007, 11:02 PM

Magic just ripped Dirk a new one on TNT... Basically asked him to talk to Nash and learn how to be an MVP and take over games.

Murphy3 · 05-08-2007, 11:05 PM

Magic was a great player, but off the court...he shows that he's about as dumb as they come. I used to like the guy until I heard him open his mouth for the first time. Then I realized that he probably wasn't intelligent enough to hold down a job at Burger King if the basketball thing didn't work out.

nashtymavsfan13 · 05-08-2007, 11:08 PM

Sounds good to me, Dirk is much better as a scorer. I miss seeing him score 30 consistently.

dirno2000 · 05-08-2007, 11:13 PM

A playmaking PG would have been of little use against the Warriors. You can’t set up a player that the defense won’t leave. G.S. played Dirk like Dallas played Amare in game 4 of the 2005 playoffs. That’s the game where Nash went for 40+.

If teams continue to play Dirk like that Jason Kidd won’t be of much help.

As far as him being a scorer, he averaged 25 a game. He could average 30 if he tried but he’d probably lose some efficiency.

Murphy3 · 05-08-2007, 11:21 PM

Dirno...that's kinda what I was thinking. The PG better also be able to score a bit AND distribute the ball. Otherwise, what does it do for Dirk? I suppose you have a ton of opportunities for everyone else on the court.. which, you already do because of the crowd that Dirk draws...

rabbitproof · 05-08-2007, 11:24 PM

While I'm with Murphy for much of this thread, the remarks on Magic are off. Dude practically is a billionaire and seems pretty capable off the court (maybe not TV).

Magic ain't stupid, he was just being harsh and speaking for TV there..

Murphy3 · 05-08-2007, 11:38 PM

Trust me, it's not Magic that's making the deals that are making him money. I suppose he is smart enough to have a wife that can put together a financial team that can maximize his money and bring him new revenues of income.. But Magic is as dumb as a box of rocks.

kingmalaki · 05-08-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vjz

Magic just ripped Dirk a new one on TNT... Basically asked him to talk to Nash and learn how to be an MVP and take over games.

Wow...Magic with the diss.....

Nash is really stepping up tonight, similar to how Dirk really stepped up last year. We live in a what have ya done for me lately world though....

Dirkadirkastan · 05-09-2007, 12:05 AM

capitalcity · 05-09-2007, 12:11 AM

Doesn't Magic have some quilting to do?

mqywaaah · 05-09-2007, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkneebar

Stars do win games. But Dirk isi no star. He is a very good player, sure, but not a star.

Youre not a star!

Dtownsfinest · 05-09-2007, 08:52 AM

Why is that everytime someone talks bad about Dirk they have to get ripped lol? Magic dumb as a box of rocks? How so? Because he doesn't speak well in front of millions of people on TNT? The guy owns real estate, food chains, movie theatres, shoe company's hell he even owns part of the Lakers. Are you guys going to rip Derek Harper because he basically has said the same thing about Dirk.

Flip41 · 05-09-2007, 09:28 AM

Derek Haper was right. Of course I will probably get ripped for saying that. I don't think that Dirk really wants to be the leader of this team. He is a great scorer, and he needs to stay on this team for that very reason. I do think that it was good for him to pass more this season, but Donnie is right, he needs to go back to the scoring machine. This team needs a PG leader. I don't care how they get it, just get it.

bernardos70 · 05-09-2007, 11:24 AM

Magic is pretty weak on TV. Also weak on TV: Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith. Along with 90% of the other people talking basketball on TV. But Magic is particularly badly-versed in the spoken English language. Along with Barkley and Reggie. Kenny Smith is the only one who seems somewhat suited to talk on TV, even though I disagree with him most of the time.

Dirk absolutely has to be a scoring threat at all times. Let's be honest here, the two things he excels at are scoring and rebounding. We gotta maximize those.

When he goes off to train in the summer vowing to bring a new weapon to his arsenal everytime, he usually does....... except for his passing. He did have some nice assist numbers his year, relatively speaking, but it mostly seemed forced. It didn't seem to come naturally to him.

The offense on this team should consist of getting Dirk scoring chances, he'll make the most of them, he'll continue being our most effective player. Leave the playmaking to other people. Dirk is the closer, not the setup man.

Murphy3 · 05-09-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flip41

Derek Haper was right. Of course I will probably get ripped for saying that. I don't think that Dirk really wants to be the leader of this team. He is a great scorer, and he needs to stay on this team for that very reason. I do think that it was good for him to pass more this season, but Donnie is right, he needs to go back to the scoring machine. This team needs a PG leader. I don't care how they get it, just get it.

Why do you doubt Dirk as the leader? Do the players?... coaches?
Who gives a rats ass what Derek Harper thinks?

It really is a shame that we don't get better basketball info/talk from our media outlets in Dallas... They're all absolutely miserable when compared to football or baseball. Come to think of it, basketball media in general is pathetic compared to the other sports. It's unfortunate that many of the stereotypes associated with many of the players in the league are re-inforced by most of the idiots that make the transition from the game to the booth.

DarenG · 05-09-2007, 11:34 AM

I have to agree that Dirk is not a great player. He is a very good player IMO. Great players don't perform like he did in the playoffs. Why is that a bad thing anyway? Dirk is still one of the best players in this league. Dirk still is a major piece to a title. He just needs some help. We need to get another legit star on this team because Dirk can't do it on his own.

It's not rocket science. Kobe can't get it done on his own and he is a great player. D-Wade couldn't do it on his own until Shaq got there. Heck Shaq couldn't get it done in Orlando when he was there. Most people argue Jordon wouldn't have gotten it done without Pippen and he's the greatest player in history IMO.

We need 2 legit stars on this team to have a chance to win a title. Dirk might not be great but he is good enough to give us a legit chance if we bring in someone else. Knowing that Dirk is no Jordon only helps us understand what this team lacks.

Flip41 · 05-09-2007, 11:38 AM

Ok, I will say that he is a leader by example. He is not the floor leader or emotional leader. That is what this team lacks. Dirk said that he is not a rah rah guy. Also Dirk is not as effective being a playmaker. That is what I mean Murph. Also I don't care what Harper thinks, but I thought he was right. He said that he didn't believe the Mavs would win because of what Dirk said after game 3. I do think that JJ Taylor of the DMN is an idiot and needs to go back to sleeping with his buddy Greg Ellis.

GP · 05-09-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Why is that everytime someone talks bad about Dirk they have to get ripped lol? Magic dumb as a box of rocks? How so? Because he doesn't speak well in front of millions of people on TNT? The guy owns real estate, food chains, movie theatres, shoe company's hell he even owns part of the Lakers. Are you guys going to rip Derek Harper because he basically has said the same thing about Dirk.

Ummm. Why yes I think that really factors in. If you are worth millions and are a terrible public speaker then why on Earth would you take a public speaking job. It isn't like being on TV is going to make him famous or improve his financial situation. I think bored athletes who get on TV just to remain in the spotlight deserve any derisive criticism they get when they can't perform up to the expected norm of the job they occupying.

vjz · 05-09-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vjz

Magic just ripped Dirk a new one on TNT... Basically asked him to talk to Nash and learn how to be an MVP and take over games.

Here is the full comment (credit Mavericks blog):

“There (Steve Nash’s second quarter performance) is the difference between Dirk and Steve Nash. This is the reason Steve Nash has won the MVP the last two years. With eight minutes to go, it was a one point game and (Nash) took the game over, had seven points, six assists to take it to a seven point lead for the Suns. The biggest game of the series for the Phoenix Suns and Steve Nash is dominating this game…That’s what a leader, that’s what an MVP, is supposed to do. Dirk, learn from your best friend because he’s taken this game over. Something you didn’t do in the last series.''

dude1394 · 05-09-2007, 07:52 PM

Maybe if we are lucky, dirk will decide to just stay in germany and play for his home team and we won't be so embarressed. I mean really, he's so pathetic that we couldn't get a 2nd rounder for him probably. Maybe we could get marquis back.

MascisMan · 05-10-2007, 10:50 AM

I am by no means a basketball expert.

It seemed to me that Dallas was having their most success against GS when Harris penetrated and when Diop/Dirk were getting put backs under the basket.

I think a penetrating point guard definitely makes the defense work harder (along with opening up shooters for better looks).

At the same time, against a small team a big low post threat will dominate. Heck even Diop got double digit points in a game! Imagine if it were Garnett/Shaq!? We all see that Boozer is just torching GS right now.

So since we already have Harris I would go after a low post banger/scorer.

Lor20 · 05-10-2007, 10:55 AM

if winning in overtime and barely at home is "torching" then im not sure what you'd consider a close game.
anyways - i agree in that dirk doesnt really look comfortable in the leader role on the field and i think its difficult to lead from PF in general. you are to far away from the SF and the other guard to talk to them and you dont have the ball enough to dictate the plays. the best "leading" positions on the field are center and the guard positions. I think we need someone on any one of these positions to tag-team lead this team with dirk. we have tag teams already with jet n harris, with diop n damp, why not in leading the team as well?

MascisMan · 05-10-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lor20

if winning in overtime and barely at home is "torching" then im not sure what you'd consider a close game.
anyways - i agree in that dirk doesnt really look comfortable in the leader role on the field and i think its difficult to lead from PF in general. you are to far away from the SF and the other guard to talk to them and you dont have the ball enough to dictate the plays. the best "leading" positions on the field are center and the guard positions. I think we need someone on any one of these positions to tag-team lead this team with dirk. we have tag teams already with jet n harris, with diop n damp, why not in leading the team as well?

I didn't say the Jazz were torching GS. I said Boozer was. Meaning that GS has no answer to an aggressive strong low post scorer. The games are close, but Boozer owns them.

If the Mavs "kryptonite" is small, fast, running teams, then the answer may be a scorer in the paint.