PGT: Neal down Spurs, Mavericks on top of Southwest

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by JHT

Actually you know who usually runs the PnR with Dirk?

JET.

And JET was out there the entire time, and they didn't even try to run that two man game.

Maybe Rick didn't want them to.

If the issue was really that Roddy was somehow too incompetent to get the ball to Dirk, Rick would have called for JET to do it.

He didn't. So I don't think that was the problem.

Good point on the JET PnR in the sense that they do run that alot and have been very successful, but are u sure they didnt run any of those this game? I would have to rewatch the game to answer that myself. Even if that is the case, u implying that Rick told them not to run a PnR? That sounds unreasonable given how successful it is.

Yes, Roddy was too incompetent to get the ball to Dirk on several occasions whether it was a PnR or a high post. It is something that Roddy needs to learn and adjust to and I like Roddy so I am looking forward to his adjiustments to improve that part of his game.

[JHT]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Yes, Roddy was too incompetent to get the ball to Dirk on several occasions whether it was a PnR or a high post. It is something that Roddy needs to learn and adjust to and I like Roddy so I am looking forward to his adjiustments to improve that part of his game.

I guess I don't understand what you expect from him when Blair is basically fouling Dirk before the pass every time. I don't know how anyone, even Kidd in his prime, could have gotten Dirk the ball... and again if it was all Roddy's fault then why didn't Rick have Terry do it (since Terry does it most of the time anyway). Terry never attempted it, not even once.

Once Blair was out of the picture and Splitter was on Dirk, they got Dirk the ball. Dirk then missed most of his shots, but they did get him the ball and usually in a pretty good spot.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by JHT

I guess I don't understand what you expect from him when Blair is basically fouling Dirk before the pass every time. I don't know how anyone, even Kidd in his prime, could have gotten Dirk the ball... and again if it was all Roddy's fault then why didn't Rick have Terry do it (since Terry does it most of the time anyway). Terry never attempted it, not even once.

Once Blair was out of the picture and Splitter was on Dirk, they got Dirk the ball. Dirk then missed most of his shots, but they did get him the ball and usually in a pretty good spot.

Like I said before, I will have to take your word on no Jet Dirk PnR. My point is that Roddy had problems getting it to Dirk either on a high post feed or PnR even after Dirk worked his ass off thru the uncalled fouls. I know of one play for sure that VC had to feed Dirk the ball in high post out of a TO, so yes there was at least one adjustment to use another player to get him the ball. As for Kidd, he is adept at feeding Dirk the ball at the right time just as he is establishing position after sealing his man. Dirk had that position several times this game with Roddy and he didnt even ATTEMPT to get him the ball and looked indecisive until he just gave up completely and tried to move the ball in the other direction. This can and probably will improve once they have more game time together and I expect most of the adjustments to come from Roddy because it was mostly his fault.

I hope your not trying to say that just because Roddy couldnt get him the ball once Dirk has sealed his man off in the high post or anywhere else on the floor that Kidd couldnt either?

[JHT]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

I hope your not trying to say that just because Roddy couldnt get him the ball once Dirk has sealed his man off in the high post or anywhere else on the floor that Kidd couldnt either?

No. What I'm saying is that when Blair was on him, Dirk was never, ever able to seal his man off in the high post. Because Blair was basically fouling him, grabbing him, pulling him, shoving him. Had Roddy passed him the ball Blair would have either stolen it or knocked it out of bounds. There was no way to get Dirk the ball because Dirk was never able to seal off Blair.

As evidence I present what happened as soon as Splitter was on Dirk instead of Blair. Then they had no problem getting Dirk the ball because Dirk WAS able to seal of Splitter, because Splitter isn't a serial fouler (though if he had any sense he would have been fouling since clearly the refs weren't going to call any of it).

See what I mean?

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by JHT

No. What I'm saying is that when Blair was on him, Dirk was never, ever able to seal his man off in the high post. Because Blair was basically fouling him, grabbing him, pulling him, shoving him. Had Roddy passed him the ball Blair would have either stolen it or knocked it out of bounds. There was no way to get Dirk the ball because Dirk was never able to seal off Blair.

As evidence I present what happened as soon as Splitter was on Dirk instead of Blair. Then they had no problem getting Dirk the ball because Dirk WAS able to seal of Splitter, because Splitter isn't a serial fouler (though if he had any sense he would have been fouling since clearly the refs weren't going to call any of it).

See what I mean?

Yes, I do. Of course it was much easier for him to seal Splitter and much harder to seal Blair for all the reasons we have discussed. The difference is I know I saw Dirk seal Blair on several occasions. U didnt see him seal him at all? This is where i believe he would have gotten the ball if it were passed at the right time and with accuracy by Roddy. I guess I don't have your crystal ball that shows me where Blair steals the ball or knocks it away on those possessions that Dirk sealed and didn't get the ball.

[JHT]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Yes, I do. Of course it was much easier for him to seal Splitter and much harder to seal Blair for all the reasons we have discussed. The difference is I know I saw Dirk seal Blair on several occasions. U didnt see him seal him at all? This is where i believe he would have gotten the ball if it were passed at the right time and with accuracy by Roddy. I guess I don't have your crystal ball that shows me where Blair steals the ball or knocks it away on those possessions that Dirk sealed and didn't get the ball.

I really don't remember seeing Dirk truly seal Blaire at all. I mean he tried, he was fighting like crazy but like I said, he could only take it so far unless he wanted to get Flagrant about it. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong but I was kind of watching for it, for exactly the reason that I wanted to see how Roddy did getting the ball in to Dirk.

There were times when Dirk would get Blair on his back but Blaire would be fouling him so much shoving him reaching around him, pinning Dirk's arms that Dirk couldn't have caught a pass. There were a couple of times when Dirk slipped around Blaire and that's usually the cue to pass the ball over Blaire's head to Dirk but in one of those instances I remember another Spur collapsed on him to help deny the pass... in the other I think Blaire basically shoved him or grabbed him to keep him from getting free.

Doesn't the fact that they were able to get it in to Dirk when Splitter was on him sort of prove that it was Blaire that was the problem and not so much Roddy or Dirk? It wasn't like Splitter wasn't active he was all over Dirk, just wasn't risking the crazy fouls Blaire was getting away with.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by JHT

I really don't remember seeing Dirk truly seal Blaire at all. I mean he tried, he was fighting like crazy but like I said, he could only take it so far unless he wanted to get Flagrant about it. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong but I was kind of watching for it, for exactly the reason that I wanted to see how Roddy did getting the ball in to Dirk.

There were times when Dirk would get Blair on his back but Blaire would be fouling him so much shoving him reaching around him, pinning Dirk's arms that Dirk couldn't have caught a pass. There were a couple of times when Dirk slipped around Blaire and that's usually the cue to pass the ball over Blaire's head to Dirk but in one of those instances I remember another Spur collapsed on him to help deny the pass... in the other I think Blaire basically shoved him or grabbed him to keep him from getting free.

Doesn't the fact that they were able to get it in to Dirk when Splitter was on him sort of prove that it was Blaire that was the problem and not so much Roddy or Dirk? It wasn't like Splitter wasn't active he was all over Dirk, just wasn't risking the crazy fouls Blaire was getting away with.

No, that is not proof of any of your points. I rewatched the first half and you are wrong on many accounts. My stats are unofficial but close enough to support my point that Roddy was bad at getting Dirk the ball either off the PnR or post feed with either Blair or another sealed. West and Jet didnt have the same problem. This is why I mostly blame Roddy. I really dont see that it is worth any more of my time as the stats speak for themselves.

Roddy had 4 plays in 1st quarter and 5 plays in 2nd quarter directly with Dirk and failed to get it to him in all cases except one. In that one case, it resulted in an easy bucket for Ian, go figure.

I took your word on the Jet/Dirk PnR and found that you were completely wrong. They ran it at least 3 times in the 1st half. On top of that, Jet managed to pass the ball to Dirk 2 times with Blair sealed.

West, in limited time, managed to pass it to Dirk 3 different times. 2 of which where Blair was sealed.

1st quarter with both on floor
5th possession Roddy attempt to Dirk poked out by Blair, Roddy recovers makes jumper from corner, this is where he should have passed a tick earlier because Dirk had Blair beat off pick under basket.
6th Roddy PnP with Dirk, Roddy misses shot
9th Roddy PnR with Dirk, didnt pass to Dirk nor drive but passed to Marion
10th Roddy PnR with Dirk, Roddy makes outside shot

1st quarter Dirk with another point guard (West, Jet)
2nd possession West passes to Dirk who misses a 3
2nd quarter with another point guard
1st possession West to Dirk at top of key guarded by Blair, Dirk pass to West, West makes shot
2nd possession West passes to Dirk in post guarded by Bonner, Dirk misses shot
4th possession West misses shot, Dirk tips it back in
5th possession West passes to Terry who PnR with Dirk for layup
6th possession Terry PnR with Dirk passes back out to West who misses shot
2nd quarter with both on floor
7th possession Roddy to Dirk on block guarded by Bonner, Dirk pass to Roddy who passes it to Ian for layup
11th possession Dirk had Blair sealed at elbow, Roddy went to Jet with pass
12th possession Roddy PnR with Dirk, Roddy misses shot
13th Jet PnR with Dirk, Jet loses ball out of bounds, Jet out of bounds pass to Dirk in post guarded by Blair, Dirk hands to Roddy who dribbles back out after his drive cut off, Roddy tries to re-feed Dirk but Blair pokes out for steal. Roddy's pass was in right spot but not fast enough and I think it could be argued that Dirk could have done more to keep that from being turned over.
14th possession Dirk has trouble sealing Blair and Roddy hits the 3
16th possession Dirk seals Blair and Terry passes to Dirk at elbow, Dirk makes shot