What do you think about this quote?

[Simon2]

"It was a mismatch nightmare," coach Don Nelson said. "We had to play some awful strange combinations. There's nothing you can do about injuries, except have a deep team. I thought we did."

From Nellie on the Orlando game. Source: DMN

First of all, to hear Nellie say that they played strange combinations is really, really weird. Is Nellie beginning his excuses? Is the underdog mentality rearing its ugly head?

[EricaLubarsky]

as long as we have this many injuries, we are the underdog.

[samoan-maverick]

I'm sick of hearing his ass talk us down, fire his ass. Didnt we wear the paper bags if we were against him?

[Simon2]

Please explain

Originally posted by: samoan-maverick
I'm sick of hearing his ass talk us down, fire his ass. Didnt we wear the paper bags if we were against him?

[DubOverdose]

Who would replace him? Phil Jackson?

[MavsFanFinley]

I don't see anything wrong with what he said. Dampier and Daniels were out. Stackhouse sat out after 14 minutes with his right thigh bruise. Dirk went down in the late 3rd with his left ankle. And Nelson sat Finley for the 4th quarter to avoid playing him heavy minutes.

He had to throw out Booth/Henderson/Hood/Harris/Terry most of the 4th with MBenga and Bradley subbing here and there. And this was with the Orlando starters like Hill, Francis, and D. Howard playing till near the end.

[FineCubanCigar]

Nellie is well on his way out, and thats all im going to say about it till the all-star break. This is another building year. Maybe one of these years the team will have time to gel.

[FineCubanCigar]

Yes, Phil jackson would be a wonderfull replacement. He wanted to take a year off, and Cuban gave Nellie an ultimatum in the offseason to produce a good defense and advace in the playoffs. Seems like a tall order for a team with no natural point gaurd and a completely re-tooled roster. If we make the playoffs this year i will be ecstatic. The rest of the West has gotten lots better yet again.

[FilthyFinMavs]

It's not like what he said his incorrect.

[The Miles]

I am down with Phil Jackson no doubt.

[FineCubanCigar]

no its not incorrect, nellie has been placed in a position to fail, wouldn't u agree?

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
no its not incorrect, nellie has been placed in a position to fail, wouldn't u agree?

With Dirk, Damp, Josh and Marquis all having lingering injuries? Yea, i'd say right now he's in position to fail. This team is going to struggle regardless of who is hurt or not but it would've really helped if we could've had everyone healthy in training camp.

[FineCubanCigar]

not to mention a real and undeniable reason not to play smallball.

[DubOverdose]

I'm so glad theres something called preseason!

[Simon2]

I just thought I would never hear "strange combination" come out of Nellie's mouth.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I was at the game. I'm getting sick of Don Nelson. I didn't see any defensive improvement. Henderson is better then people think though. Stackhouse was so hurt, he couldn't even pick up his man. Then he promtly went out of the game. I've been optimistic all summer long. Now I have my worries about this team. If half our backcourt is injured, it's gonna be a long season. I really believe that Nelson just runs them to death. We just over condition our players. You can see that most of them were huffing and puffing. ANyways, if we start sub-500 in the first 30 or so games, you can say bye to Nellie. So I guess this post is moot. Still, I payed money for four tickets, and what I saw was dissapointing.

[Phil Helmuth]

Hey Nellie they skies not falling. Who bitches about preseason game? Everyone will be healthy for the first game (maybe not Quis), and then he can play or stacked, deep lineup. If not they can pay me minimum wage to coach the team. With those players I will guarentee a playoff seed, even with Nellie coaching.

[Misfit Mav]

The best teams in the league-- the Pistons, Spurs, and Wolves-- are all losing right now. Pre-season really doesn't mean too much. I don't like what I'm seeing right now, but I think weak play in the preseason can often be attributed to the players' confidence in their ability to win when it counts. I'd almost be more worried if we were really struggling and just barely pulling out wins, like we had something to really prove.

That said, the injuries ain't good, and Nellie's negativity is unsurprising but unwelcome.

[Chiwas]

Originally posted by: Phil Helmuth
With those players I will guarentee a playoff seed, even with Nellie coaching.

Regardless of Nellie.
Cuban has been great for the Dallas Mavericks, but has missed the main decision.
I would bring whatever successful college coach who plays a solid defense first of all.
Another lost season, another way over the cap money thrown directly into the drainage.
Yeah, we'll have a winning season, but don't expect any further improvement, even having a "deeper team". Every year we have a "deeper team" since Cuban took the team. While the head coaching mind isn't deeper, you're not deeper.
Yes, this is pre-season indeed, and his mind is already messed up.
Some injuries, of course. We could hire robots instead.
What else? For every excuse I have the same answer.

[rakesh.s]

phil jackson is the man..the triangle would do wonders for these players

seems like it is all set up...cya nellie..talking about mismatches and strange lineups in the preseason is not good

[Bayliss]

I think yall are overreacting. At least wait until the reular season. A lot of people were not playing so he was forced to put in weird lineups.

(I'm more concerned with "He's not Shaq" and "Marquis is our best passer" than anything else. One is downright false and the other belittles the best "bruising" center in the league behind Shaq.)

[grndmstr_c]

(I'm more concerned with "He's not Shaq" and "Marquis is our best passer" than anything else. One is downright false and the other belittles the best "bruising" center in the league behind Shaq.)

Daniels put up 8.8 assists per 48 minutes with a 3.5 a/to ratio as a point guard last year. Can you find me someone on the current Mavs roster who's passing stats were better? Or for that matter, can you find me someone on the current Phoenix roster who had a better a/to ratio last year? And as for Dampier, Nellie wasn't insulting his ability to bang. He was just saying he's not going to be the kind of go-to offensive threat that arguably the most dominant player in the history of the game is/was. How is that belittling? Belittling would be more like: "he's not in Raef's class as a rebounder".

[sike]

C loves that assist per 48 minute stat.....my question is, how many times a game did he pass it? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
C knows this stat can be pretty deceptive...but he keeps on throwing it out there....which leads me to the only possible conclusion: C is Marquis Daniels!

[Male30Dan]

That would make you Sam Cassell!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[sike]

crap....and I thought my days of killing to protect my identity were through

[Male30Dan]

Posting Cassell's mug shot as your avatar was not a good way to live undercover!!!

[sike]

well, you know, "hide it in the open" they say...
anyway, back to the point, Daniels is not the best passer on this team and if he is the best passer and "playmaker I've got" (Nellie), he should be the point.

[Male30Dan]

He is a good passer with good handles... That helps him at the 2... You can be the best passer on your team and not necessarily be the point guard... I can list several teams living with that situation!

[grndmstr_c]

Sike, if we're going to compare players statistically we've got to have some way of standardizing the statistics to make the comparisons more meaningful. Marquis didn't play all (or even most) of his minutes at point, and his assist numbers playing the point were very different from his assist numbers playing the 2/3. Factor in that he played just over 18 mpg and it's just not going to be very informative to simply take his raw apg numbers. Feel free to translate the numbers to per 35 minute stats if you'd like but the conclusion they'll point to will be the same. Marquis managed to put up slightly above average assist numbers with a very much above average a/to ratio playing the point last year. Those numbers may have limited predictive validity because of the small sample size, but they're a very true representation of how he performed last year - not misleading in the least. And I don't want to lose sight of this: Quis' competition for best passer on the team comes from JT, who's capable but by no means a top of the heap assist man specifcally, and a rookie who's yet to play a single minute in a real NBA game. Is it really all that outlandish to think that Nellie might be right in his appraisal of the Mavs' distributors?

[sike]

Marquis didn't play all (or even most) of his minutes at point, and his assist numbers playing the point were very different from his assist numbers playing the 2/3.

do you have these numbers? I would like to see them...but am far too lazy to dig them up.

Factor in that he played just over 18 mpg and it's just not going to be very informative to simply take his raw apg numbers. Feel free to translate the numbers to per 35 minute stats if you'd like but the conclusion they'll point to will be the same. Marquis managed to put up slightly above average assist numbers with a very much above average a/to ratio playing the point last year. Those numbers may have limited predictive validity because of the small sample size, but they're a very true representation of how he performed last year - not misleading in the least.

I'll be honest, I understand, but you just sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher here.... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

And I don't want to lose sight of this: Quis' competition for best passer on the team comes from JT, who's capable but by no means a top of the heap assist man specifcally, and a rookie who's yet to play a single minute in a real NBA game. Is it really all that outlandish to think that Nellie might be right in his appraisal of the Mavs' distributors?

first off, I think most of what Nellie says is outlandish. And yes, I think Daniels may be a decent distributer at the 2 or 3(great point there, C)...but to compare him to a guy who has had over seven dimes a game for an entire year based upon a stat that under scrutiny may not hold up is asinine. I say again, if Quis is the team's best playmaker and passer as Nellie has claimed, then sit terry play Quis at the one, FIn at the two, Howard at the three, Dirk and Damp making up the frontcourt.....if Daniels is really the playmaker Nellie claims, let him make the plays if he can because that proposed line up looks killer to me.

[grndmstr_c]

do you have these numbers? I would like to see them...but am far too lazy to dig them up.

Extrapolating from the stats at 82games Quis played somewhere in the area of 280 minutes at the point last year. Like I mwa mwa'ed...er, said, the sample size isn't as large as would be ideal if one were, say, placing a bet, but it's the best we've got to go on, and at the very least I don't think anyone would look at those stats as an indicator that Nellie was off base in declaring Marquis his best passer

but to compare him to a guy who has had over seven dimes a game for an entire year based upon a stat that under scrutiny may not hold up is asinine.

I didn't make that statement about Quis being the best passer. Nellie did. I'm going to wait till a good bit of the season has passed before I make up my mind on the matter. I'm just quoting the stats to, again, show that the available evidence is at the very least not incompatible with Nellie's opinion.

I say again, if Quis is the team's best playmaker and passer as Nellie has claimed, then sit terry play Quis at the one, Fin at the two, Howard at the three, Dirk and Damp making up the frontcourt.....if Daniels is really the playmaker Nellie claims, let him make the plays if he can because that proposed line up looks killer to me.

I agree that would be a good lineup, but I think JT/Quis/Fin/Dirk/Damp can be pretty good as well. I wouldn't put it past Nellie to have Quis play more like a point and Terry play more like a SG a good amount of the time that they share the court, and I don't see any reason to think that couldn't work, esp. since Terry's probably going to be a better defender against opposing points than Marquis, and posesses better shooting range (valuable if he's playing off the ball on offense) than Josh.

[sike]

Extrapolating from the stats at 82games Quis played somewhere in the area of 280 minutes at the point last year. Like I mwa mwa'ed...er, said, the sample size isn't as large as would be ideal if one were, say, placing a bet, but it's the best we've got to go on, and at the very least I don't think anyone would look at those stats as an indicator that Nellie was off base in declaring Marquis his best passer

you are a jerk and freakin funny one at that!...or should I say, "Yes ma'am....uh yes ma'am" [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

I didn't make that statement about Quis being the best passer. Nellie did. I'm going to wait till a good bit of the season has passed before I make up my mind on the matter. I'm just quoting the stats to, again, show that the available evidence is at the very least not incompatible with Nellie's opinion.

your words are "sneaky sneaky sir"...and you are wise to wait and see. WE ALL WOULD BE WISE TO WAIT AND SEE!

I wouldn't put it past Nellie to have Quis play more like a point and Terry play more like a SG a good amount of the time that they share the court, and I don't see any reason to think that couldn't work, esp. since Terry's probably going to be a better defender against opposing points than Marquis, and posesses better shooting range (valuable if he's playing off the ball on offense) than Josh.

this thought I like...ok, I will not vote you off. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Dooby]

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
no its not incorrect, nellie has been placed in a position to fail, wouldn't u agree?

No. Nellie has been put into a position in which most of us think he will fail. Nellie has been placed in a position from which there are no excuses if he does fail. There is a difference.

Of course, it is important to define failure at this juncture. I define failure for Nellie thusly:

1) 6th-8th in the West midway through the season;
2) little to no defensive improvement; and
3) Nellie acting like Nellie.
--a) Nellie badmouthing players;
--b) bizaare player combinations and misuse of players;
--c) inability to effectively run plays on final possessions;
--d) overplaying players;
--e) lack of established rotation.

BTW, I fully expect all of this.

[Simon2]

I really don't understand why Nellie belittles his players. I guess I'm of the thinking that motivation and positive reinforcement goes a much longer way than negative energy. Instead of saying that Terry is not Nash (its a given), why not focus on Terry's strengths like defense and energy? I'm sick of Nellie's defeatist attitude. We need a positive guy in here. AJ, please take the reins. I can't wait to see AJ as the new HC.

Originally posted by: Dooby

No. Nellie has been put into a position in which most of us think he will fail. Nellie has been placed in a position from which there are no excuses if he does fail. There is a difference.

Of course, it is important to define failure at this juncture. I define failure for Nellie thusly:

1) 6th-8th in the West midway through the season;
2) little to no defensive improvement; and
3) Nellie acting like Nellie.
--a) Nellie badmouthing players;
--b) bizaare player combinations and misuse of players;
--c) inability to effectively run plays on final possessions;
--d) overplaying players;
--e) lack of established rotation.

BTW, I fully expect all of this.

[FineCubanCigar]

Originally posted by: Dooby

No. Nellie has been put into a position in which most of us think he will fail. Nellie has been placed in a position from which there are no excuses if he does fail. There is a difference.

Of course, it is important to define failure at this juncture. I define failure for Nellie thusly:

1) 6th-8th in the West midway through the season;
2) little to no defensive improvement; and
3) Nellie acting like Nellie.
--a) Nellie badmouthing players;
--b) bizaare player combinations and misuse of players;
--c) inability to effectively run plays on final possessions;
--d) overplaying players;
--e) lack of established rotation.

BTW, I fully expect all of this.

exactly. He is put in a position to fail when u include "Nellie acting like Nellie" and the go on to describe his typical behavior, so i think we are in agreement. Just sematics.

[FineCubanCigar]

I am more for either Donnie or Jackson than A.J.

[FreshJive]

"6th-8th in the West midway through the season"

I'll consider that to be at least par for this course. How can that be considered failure for this team? If we are above sixth by midseason then Nellie has worked wonders with this team.

[FineCubanCigar]

ya it would mean Nellie stopped coaching like Nellie to be sixth seed in this conferance with the current roster. it would mean VERY GOOD defense, no small ball, going to the center some for offense due to our lack of pure shooting ect. ect. ect..........

[chumdawg]

With all due respect to everyone who has posted in this thread, let me say that I am taken aback by all the Nellie criticism at this stage. For one thing, I think it's a little petty to complain about the comments Nellie makes in the press. He certainly wouldn't be the first head coach to "play" the media. Most of the good ones do. Surely you recognize that what goes on in team meetings is probably markedly different than what is given out for public consumption.

I get the impression that some people around here will never be satisfied when it comes to Nellie. You want defense, and right now that's what he's preaching. You wanted a center, and we've got three of them. You want optimism from him. Before training camp he said that this was the best team he's had in Dallas. You like Avery Johnson? What other head coaches do you know that would take a young guy like that and let him run practices? Sit him down next to him on the bench? Don't you think that most other coaches are a little more insecure than that? Nellie obviously has the best interests of the franchise at heart.

I'd like to respond to Dooby's list:

1) 6th-8th in the West midway through the season;

Being that part of this may fall outside the Mavs' control, I'd tap the brakes on worrying about the standings just yet. There may be five teams bunched together with 53 wins. Let's wait and see how good the Denvers and Houstons are before we start making relative judgments.

2) little to no defensive improvement; and

I'm surprised to hear you say that you expect this to happen. It is obviously an organizational mandate. It seems that every available resource has been spent toward this end. I would agree with you that if it doesn't happen then it is a failure of the head coach. But I fully expect to see marked improvement. If you listen to the experts, there is practically no place for our defense to go but up.

3) Nellie acting like Nellie.
--a) Nellie badmouthing players;

Did it strike any nerves around here when Parcells called his team "stupid?" Maybe sometimes certain players need to be called out. Maybe when Jason Terry hears that he is no Steve Nash, he knows it means that he needs to get his turnovers down. Surely we agree that Terry needs to get his turnovers down, don't we?

We should also remember that Nellie was building up Dirk in recent weeks. Talked about a "breakout year" or somesuch. Also remember that Finley is always cited as the heart and soul of the team. Those are the most important guys, and they certainly aren't getting badmouthed. I give Nellie the benefit of the doubt on this one. I'm sure he's trying to get his players to improve.

--b) bizaare player combinations and misuse of players;

No coach should "misuse" his players, obviously. We had some fairly bizarre combinations in 2003, though, when we won 60 and went to the WCF. I would imagine that opposing coaches would have rather faced a straightforward lineup from the rosters we have had than face some of the lineups Nellie has thrown out over the years. If the combinations get results, that's what matters. Of course, we would hope that our newly-acquired personnel will allow Nellie to have enough advantages in talent so that he won't have to resort to matchup problems.

(P.S. Dirk is something of a walking bizarre player combination, in a manner of speaking.)

--c) inability to effectively run plays on final possessions;

It would be interesting to analyze how many times the Mavs have succeeded on final possessions over the years, versus the times they have failed. I wonder if maybe we don't remember the failures and forget the successes. I remember some great successes in the playoffs over the last few years. And of course, I remember the series from hell last year. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that if you went back and looked at the complete record you might be surprised.

--d) overplaying players;

No real argument here, except if it's the case that the guys in question can handle it. Jordan led the league at least once in minutes played, if I recall correctly. At least he didn't "overplay" Dirk in the Spurs series in 2003, even if Cuban may have wanted him to.

--e) lack of established rotation.

This one I'm completely on board with. But, it does appear that this year we are likely to see a more regular rotation in place.

[NewMexiMav]

Originally posted by: chumdawg

I'd like to respond to Dooby's list:

--a) Nellie badmouthing players;

Did it strike any nerves around here when Parcells called his team "stupid?" Maybe sometimes certain players need to be called out. Maybe when Jason Terry hears that he is no Steve Nash, he knows it means that he needs to get his turnovers down. Surely we agree that Terry needs to get his turnovers down, don't we?

We should also remember that Nellie was building up Dirk in recent weeks. Talked about a "breakout year" or somesuch. Also remember that Finley is always cited as the heart and soul of the team. Those are the most important guys, and they certainly aren't getting badmouthed. I give Nellie the benefit of the doubt on this one. I'm sure he's trying to get his players to improve.

I think there is a real difference between calling out players on their game day performance like Parcells does, and making general derogatory comments about a player's game in general, like "Jason Terry is no Steve Nash" and "Dampier is no Shaq."

These are not earth-shattering comments by Nellie. Damp is no Shaq . . . duh! So why say it? Does he really want to tear down the confidence of his players? I don't understand why he would want to, unless he really wants to spend this winter in Maui.

Rather, I think this is Nellie trying to build excuses in the event this season doesn't go well; i.e., "I told Cuban that Terry and Damp weren't talented, but nobody listened to me."

Understand, I'm not in panic mode and I'm not ready to pull the rug out from Nellie. I'm just getting tired of his shtick. If Terry/Damp/Bradley/whoever plays like crap, call them on it. I have no problem with that. But quit the poor-mouth BS that our players just aren't as good as other teams' players. If the average fan is tired of it, I would think Cuban would be just plain sick of it.