Fire Avery Now! Quick! Urgent! - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

seelenjaeger · 03-21-2008, 09:41 PM

Okay, the title is the last thing I want to read from that direction as either conclusion or answer to the question I keep asking myself.

What is the mastermindic idea about starting the 2nd half without any starter?

I didn´t see enough Mavs games to answer that question (mostly highlight stuff over here, and that rarely includes the Mavs 2nd quarters), so I´m openly challenging all REAL basketball masterminds here to gimme some insight in this.

Plus / Minus stuff appreciated.

I have some theory, which is going something into the direction of maximizing the time our top 5 is playing together and giving up some 4-5 minutes of 4+1 or 3+2 by going 0+5 and later, when you need it, 5+0, but are our 4+1 or 3+2 combos really that much weaker than our 5+0 (all starter) lineup?

Is it that impossible to simply share Damps bench minutes between Bass (with Dirk on the floor, I don´t like the combo, but well) and Juwan / Magloire (if Dirks not on the Floor and Bass is manning the PF)?

Damp - Dirk - Josh - Stack - Kidd

Juwan (Magloire?) - Bass - Devean - Terry - Lue

So Avery´s stragety tells me that most combinations of 3 out of the A group and 2 out of the B group don´t work? Is he right? Is there any stat to backup his theory?

Can´t fight the feeling that we really screw up most of the games between 5:00 to play in the first and 7:00 to play in the 2nd, or in case of not screwing up missing opportunities and making games alot harder and intense than they might have to be if we somehow take the momentum out of our opponents hands (or if not TAKING it out, KEEPING it out).

Just a theory - we all know, to some degree, that Josh USUALLY is a first half player - why not let him log 20 - 24 minutes first half and leave him out 6-8 mins between 3rd / 4th?

Why not letting Kidd run the offense with some of the 2nd Unit and letting Lue play some Avery beloved Isos with Dirk during most of the Third? It´s not like Jason Kidd is a shooter you have to be afraid of cooling down, he seems to be a guy able to step right up.

Why not save Damp from foul troubles by severely limiting his minutes in the first, and letting him control the boards in the 2nd half?

So many questions, and please, only answer if you have anything to say besides "Fire Avery" or "stubborn mastermindic control freak". This is not about criticism, I want to understand, or maybe even speculate what´s going on. Maybe we can find SOME answers by discussing?

LonghornDub · 03-21-2008, 10:02 PM

I'm sorry dude, I read through your post twice but I really can't figure out what you're trying to say. You want to play a different rotation in regard to spacing out the starters? Is that it?

MavsX · 03-21-2008, 10:04 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LTnq268y2ms

seelenjaeger · 03-21-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I'm sorry dude, I read through your post twice but I really can't figure out what you're trying to say. You want to play a different rotation in regard to spacing out the starters? Is that it?

No. I´m not trying to say "this or that ain´t better". I just want to understand which lineups work better than others, and WHY we keep starting the 2nd half with all-bench guys.

I´m not saying that

Kidd - Terry - Josh - Bass - Juwan

would be a better lineup to start the 2nd half, and that

Lue - Stack - George - Dirk - Damp

should be our mid-3rd lineup, but I´d like to know why we don´t use those for an extended time to avoid playing our beloved lue- terry - george - bass - juwan lineup.

LonghornDub · 03-21-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seelenjaeger

No. I´m not trying to say "this or that ain´t better". I just want to understand which lineups work better than others, and WHY we keep starting the 2nd half with all-bench guys.

I´m not saying that

Kidd - Terry - Josh - Bass - Juwan

would be a better lineup to start the 2nd half, and that

Lue - Stack - George - Dirk - Damp

should be our mid-3rd lineup, but I´d like to know why we don´t use those for an extended time to avoid playing our beloved lue- terry - george - bass - juwan lineup.

Ok, I see what you're saying. You don't want there to be 5 scrubs on the court for an extended period of time.

I agree with you. I think Avery should stagger when he takes starters out of the game so that there's always at least 1 good player on the court. That's sort of what Pop does.

GermanDunk · 03-21-2008, 10:27 PM

Is it common use to substitute a coach short before playoffs start ? Which guy could make it ?

seelenjaeger · 03-21-2008, 10:28 PM

Yeah, exactly. That´s my question.

I doubt Avery does it without reason (the 5-scrubs thingy), but I couldnt find any reason so far for still doing it - so let´s try and find that reason WHY he plays them.

Anybody having an idea why he does it? Any numbers to back up Averys plan?

seelenjaeger · 03-21-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

Is it common use to substitute a coach short before playoffs start ? Which guy could make it ?

Please - this is NO discussion about Avery. I just used that Title to draw attention. I don´t want to let the thread be yet another Avery-sucks thread, I´d like to find out what he plans. He might even have some valid points ... but let´s talk lineups and basketball here, NOT coach-sacking ...

GermanDunk · 03-21-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seelenjaeger

Please - this is NO discussion about Avery. I just used that Title to draw attention. I don´t want to let the thread be yet another Avery-sucks thread, I´d like to find out what he plans. He might even have some valid points ... but let´s talk lineups and basketball here, NOT coach-sacking ...

OK, you´re right. Another " F*** Avery" thread doesn´t make any sense. I slept in during halftime, so i can´t contribute anything referring to the Boston-mess.

Big Boy Laroux · 03-21-2008, 10:43 PM

seelen, it's not a good idea to be starting threads with misleading thread titles. Just post a title that's applicable.

I'd ask the mods to edit it if seelen doesn't. all this will do is cause ridiculous debates and flaming, that admittedly, the original poster didn't want. he just wanted attention with the title.

seelenjaeger · 03-21-2008, 10:56 PM

Hmm, not sure if I can actually change it myself ... how about "let´s try to find out what´s the idea behind our rotations" or such?

Mavs Rule · 03-21-2008, 11:36 PM

Trying to find logic in illogic is futile.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-23-2008, 06:32 PM

I thought this could use a bump.....

quiet riot act · 03-24-2008, 07:37 AM

the mavs need a different "kind" of coach
http://205.188.238.109/time/magazine...724406,00.html

Knickfan · 03-24-2008, 08:50 AM

No the Mavs need better players. Did you hear what Avery said in that time out after Dirk went down "you all want more shots, here's your chance". The players didn't step up and that's been my issue all along with the Mavs. They don't have the players (other than Dirk) to get it done.

Stack, Terry and Howard all try to step up their games but I really don't see the ability for them to take on the leadership role and carry a team for an extended period. I just don't see it unfortunately. THAT I blame on management and their decisions about putting this team together.

Avery could do a better job in his rotations but I must say he can only rotate with what he has and if he has 5 scrubs on the court at one time, you have to look at your personnel. You don't want to wear Dirk and Kidd down, they both have a lot of mileage on them. Josh Howard can go a long time but sometimes he NEEDS to sit down and Stack also has alot of mileage on him. Then what do you have left if you need to get these guys rest? Terry (not going to do it)? Damp (whatever)? George, Juwan, Bass? I just really can't see how he can improve the rotation.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 03-24-2008, 08:54 AM

Let's just trade the entire roster -Dirk for Dikembe Mutumbo.

mqywaaah · 03-24-2008, 09:22 AM

Please step up Mr. Kidd! Please step up!

horse900703 · 03-24-2008, 10:20 PM

Come on, now the problem is not on AJ!!!!!

Lor20 · 03-25-2008, 03:59 AM

the rotations are a big part of the problem. the biggest problem is that avery is not good at making changes when things dont go the way he wants them to. last two years things worked out because we got into a rythm early in the season and then got a fixed rotation that worked together. After 70 games we still dont have it this year and time is running out. Avery needs to quit experimenting. Our starters work reasonably well together. Allen as backup center works ok, bass is much better as backup PF than as backup center. lue for kidd works ok aswell, terry and stack are ok at the 2 guard position. and JHo can split his minutes with george.
Why we end up with a Kidd - Terry - Stack- Howard - Dirk linup against the spurs is beyond me.

And the substitutions afterwards just made it more weird.
Kidd- Terry - George - Howard - Dirk
Stackhouse - George - Howard - Bass - Dirk (wtf kinda linup is this? 2 1/2 players arent on their best position...)
No wonder the spurs went 14-2 with these lineups on the floor.

Can we atleast play the players on their normal positions? We are 2 players deep on nearly every positiion so why not just rotate that way and keep atleast 2 starters on the floor at all times. Why take your own players out of their comfort zones? the passing options are unknown and so are the looks they are getting so its a recipe for disaster.
Dirk is no freaking center. Dirk/damp did a superb job on duncan up to that point and held him to 4 points and 5 rebounds on 1 of 12 shooting.