Dallas at Memphis Gameday Thread

[Misfit Mav]

I think some of the slow starts and strong finishes may be due to playing the rookies early and the vets late. It might be a good thing.

[MavsFanFinley]

I love the 18 rebounds, 3 steals, and 13 ft attempts from Dirk, but 32 points on 27 shots!!??

[HexNBA]

as long as we win, dirk can take all the shots for all i care. compared to most all-star and "superstar" players, dirk has very few of these high shot, low yield games.

[dude1394]

When we find someone else that can make a shot, he'll get better looks. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Misfit Mav]

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
I love the 18 rebounds, 3 steals, and 13 ft attempts from Dirk, but 32 points on 27 shots!!??

I'm not against it because the next time he gets 27 shots he'll probably score 50.

[rakesh.s]

dirk missing that many shots is an anomaly...don't worry about it

i'm just glad that he is taking that many shots

iverson takes 22 shots to score 25 points just about every night

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

Originally posted by: Misfit Mav


Also, I love how many shots Dirk has been taking lately, even if he hasn't been shooting as well.

I appreciated this in the middle of the fourth quarter when the mavs kept initiating the offense through dirk. It seemed like they were just saying, "ok memphis, we're going to get it to dirk, try to get guys open off of screens and cuts, and if that fails, dirk's going to shoot it. Stop us if you can." the passing wasn't crisp at all, but that will get better. What I DID like was that the mavs had a SET plan that made me, as a viewer, quite confident that they were going to take care of business. Much different feeling than the street ball feel of past maverick teams.

[sike]

nice to see Damp step up in the late third and forth...two very good games in a row.

[StrikerV]

The Dump is learning Consistancy, If he wins us the game vs San Antonio he can have his name back [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[mavsfanforever]

We need to understand that it took a 32-18 outing from Dirk to win this game. Until Fin comes back we need Dirjs outings to be similar atleast on the road to get W's.

[bloodyhell]

>I love the 18 rebounds, 3 steals, and 13 ft attempts from Dirk, but 32 points on 27 shots!!??

I tend to agree with everyone else that he's normally more accurate and this was just an off night. When you think about the freen throws he made then he really only missed about 9 shots. If he misses two per quarter it's 8 per game. A couple of the shots missed were also little put back tips and what not. As I said though, he had an off night and he still scored 32. He rarely does this so it's no biggie. All on a bad ankle.

To be honest, when we can get him some better looks on a more consistant basis, i think he'll really excell.

I still worry about the pg situation and other players stepping it up on a consistant basis more than anything.

[sike]

Originally posted by: StrikerV
The Dump is learning Consistancy, If he wins us the game vs San Antonio he can have his name back [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

just saw Damp on the post-post game show....he said he was thrilled to hear that you are willing to give him his name back....

[img]i/expressions/moon.gif[/img]

[samoan-maverick]

Fastbreak sucks. I wanna hear some praise, what happened to Legler, Anthony and Steven A. they dont do that show anymore???

I wonder why George Karl wont give Dirk any type of props???

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

I like dampier's game. He clogs the middle well on defense. One play that sticks out to me today is when earl watson had a completely open way to the basket with just dampier to beat. He drove up to dampier with the dallas defense barely collapsing on him, and then proceeded to dribble the ball back out just because of damp.
Damp also seems like an intelligent, cool-headed basketball player. He doesn't make too many mistakes; actually, I get surprised when I notice one from him.
But for all the good attributes, he still disappears a bit too often for my taste -- at least, on the stat sheet (I don't remember any games I watched where damp did especially poor). Perhaps, he is too careful to not make mistakes. I hope and believe as the season wears on and he continues to get more and more acclimated, he will become more of a consistent force on the mavs.

[sike]

I wonder why George Karl wont give Dirk any type of props???

he's jealous of Dirk's flowing hair [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[bloodyhell]

>Fastbreak sucks. I wanna hear some praise, what happened to Legler, Anthony and Steven A. they dont do that show anymore???

it's always sucked. The loudest one on there's never played pro ball in his life. It's extremely boring with boring people who are embarrassing to watch. They don't gel at all.

The reason why they may be gone is because of the hollidays or more importantly because they all blindly defended artest right away. Sadly it will probably just be because of the holliday.

>I wonder why George Karl wont give Dirk any type of props???

Because no one gives "props" anymore. This is 2004 not the mid 90's. Karl is a mental midget.

[MavsFanFinley]

I'm glad that many are so willing to overlook the shot attempts and misses by Dirk tonight. If it was any other player, he'd be dragged through the mud and then some.

I know it's not a normal thing for him (the shot attempts or misses), but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve some criticism. And please don't use the injury excuse. We've heard that for Dampier, Daniels, Howard, and Terry this year. You think Finley is going to be given the same courtesy? He hasn't in the past.

And for those wondering...Dirk is shooting 37% on nearly 21 (20.6 to be exact) shots per in the last 3 games.

[grndmstr_c]

I'm glad that many are so willing to overlook the shot attempts and misses by Dirk tonight. If it was any other player, he'd be dragged through the mud and then some.

I know it's not a normal thing for him (the shot attempts or misses), but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve some criticism. And please don't use the injury excuse. We've heard that for Dampier, Daniels, Howard, and Terry this year. You think Finley is going to be given the same courtesy? He hasn't in the past.

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm pretty sure the 18 rebounds and 3 steals, and the win, have something to do with the pass he's getting.

[grndmstr_c]

Great quote I found in the ESPN recap:

"Dirk is such a freak," Grizzlies interim coach Lionel Hollins said. "This guy is 7-foot and plays like a guard. The guy is just a great player. ... There's no more that needs to be said about him."

[dude1394]

I agree he's forcing shots but there isn't anyone else I want shooting it right now as the offense looks completely out of sync. Yea and if you get 18 rebounds and get to the line 13 times you can take a lot of shots...

[DubOverdose]

I would give Dirk a hard time, but he atleast got over 1pt per shot attempt while being double teamed and then some. Also, being the franchise player has a lot to do with it. Do you critique Tim Duncan, Shaq, or KG when they have bad games? I wouldn't since you need the game to run through them to win.

[The Miles]

And for those wondering...Dirk is shooting 37% on nearly 21 (20.6 to be exact) shots per in the last 3 games.

And Dallas is 2-1.

Look, Dirk has the green light, he has earned it. The more he shoots, the better our odds are of winning the game. Players rebound off Dirk misses better then others. Seems to me that Damp and Josh really know how to follow Dirk shots very well.

[TheBenger]

You think Finley is going to be given the same courtesy? He hasn't in the past.

The reason Michael Finley wouldn't get that courtesy is because when Mike does that Dirk is taking 17 shots. If Nowitzki had another "Nowitzki" on his team.. and still took 30 shots and missed so many he would get trashed for it. Which is why Finley does get trashed. You want your best player taking the shots. Jordan had plenty of games like this. And like Jordan you know Dirk is going to have very few games like this. It shouldn't stop him from shooting.

[sike]

Originally posted by: The Miles

And Dallas is 2-1.

exactly...winning cures all speculation

Especially with how the rest of this culb has been shooting lately, if guys like Daniels, Howard, Stack, Harris, Terry had been tearing it up from the field, then Dirk might be due more criticism. But as it stands right now, he is doing what most of us have always wanted him to do (dominate the ball)...except just not as well as some would hope. Someone mentioned it before in another post, but just think if taking this many shots were to be a habit for the Diggler...on just an average shooting night for him he'd score 40 points. And putting this team on his back is something I'm all for...even when Finley comes back.

[sike]

but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve some criticism.

the only valid criticism is that he has been shooting poorly. He has shot sub-standard the last couple games....but that has not effected his effort or overall production. Every shooter goes through bad streches...I just hope Dirk does not pull the shot count back to around 16-18 when Finely returns. Fin needs his 12-14 shots(not 17 or 18), but Dirk should take 20 a game(not 16 or 17)...and as always, if my option is A: Fin taking 3 more 17ft jumpers or B: Dirk attacking the hole or creating his shot three more times a game, I'll take Dirk...

[dude1394]

As soon as mike drags down 18 rebounds and averages 11, gets to the ft line 13 times and is 4th in the league with FTA's, he will get passes ALLDAYLONG....

Just not comparable...

[Hitman]

Good god MFF....Dirk does not deserve ANY criticicm for taking 27 shots. We NEED him to take 27 shots. He is the freaking franchise. He missed a few more shots than he normally does, but who cares? He could have gone 15 for 27 and scored 30 points...would you have been happy then?

Dirk needs to shoot more, if anything.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
I'm glad that many are so willing to overlook the shot attempts and misses by Dirk tonight.

I'm pleased that Dirk shot that many times because that means that Stack COULDN'T get the ball.

[MavKikiNYC]

Between Dirk taking too many shots, and getting too few touches, I know which I'd rather see any night.

Take it as a sign that he's asserting himself, and unless it becomes a trend accompanied by poor team production/performance, don't sweat it.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
I'm glad that many are so willing to overlook the shot attempts and misses by Dirk tonight. If it was any other player, he'd be dragged through the mud and then some.

I know it's not a normal thing for him (the shot attempts or misses), but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve some criticism. And please don't use the injury excuse. We've heard that for Dampier, Daniels, Howard, and Terry this year. You think Finley is going to be given the same courtesy? He hasn't in the past.

And for those wondering...Dirk is shooting 37% on nearly 21 (20.6 to be exact) shots per in the last 3 games.

Yea i've noticed that. These last 3 games I believe since coming off the injury he hasn't been shooting too well. There's nothing wrong with taking 27 shots but it shouldn't happen when you can't throw the ball in the ocean. Being that Dirk's our only consistent option on the offensive side we can't afford for him to have these types of shooting nights on 27 shots. Tonight we got a pass because we faced a team that was missing possibly their best player and a great role player. I'm not sure if we have this same luxury if we would've faced the Spurs. I've been really impressed by Dirk's rebounding this season. In the past you could expect a 10 rebounding game often but this season it seems like he is consistently grabbing 3+ boards a night. I wish we can get that same effort from Damp when it comes to the boards.


BTW, I also agree that if it takes Dirk 27 shots in order for us to limit Stack's shots then i'm all for it.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Hitman
Good god MFF....Dirk does not deserve ANY criticicm for taking 27 shots. We NEED him to take 27 shots. He is the freaking franchise. He missed a few more shots than he normally does, but who cares? He could have gone 15 for 27 and scored 30 points...would you have been happy then?

Dirk needs to shoot more, if anything.

That would mean that Dirk wouldn't have made any free throws if he goes 15/27. No star in this league should have take 27 shots in order for them to get 30 points and I know for a fact Dirk doesn't have too. I see no reason why I shouldn't expect a 40 point night from Dirk on 27 shots.

[MavsFanFinley]

Saturday November 27, 2004 9:40 PM

I love the 18 rebounds, 3 steals, and 13 ft attempts from Dirk, but 32 points on 27 shots!!??

This is my original post. It's the second one made on the 3rd page. The first thing I did was give Dirk credit for the rebounds, then steals, then the ft's. Nothing wrong with my questioning the shot attempts in that game. Nothing.

And it's not my questioning who should take the most shots. I think I've been on record as saying Dirk has that right. I'm talking about this one game and one game alone. Why would anyone want to turn it into another who should take more shots debate?

TheBenger and dude, you've taken my comment on whether Finley will be given the same pass and turned it into a different argument. If you had read that part carefully you'd notice that I was talking about excuses and injuries. When Fin comes back and misses his first shot or two, there will be people screaming for him to be traded. You're not going to hear, "give him some time, he's been out 3 weeks." That's the pass I'm talking about.

If you're happy with Dirk taking 20 shots per game and shooting 37%, fine. Sorry if I want more for/from him than being another Iverson or Kobe. I won't make another comment about it again.

[DubOverdose]

I sure hope Finley is back in action soon. I know I've forgotten how good he is.

[Hitman]

No one is happy with Dirk taking 20 shots a game and shooting 37% if those were his stats over a full season.

But when you are talking about a microscopic sample of 3 games, which happen to be the 3 games following an injury which was supposed to keep him out for 10 days, then the argument is so lame.

Dirk is the best player on the Mavs. Duncan, Garnett, Bird, Magic, all the great ones have shot 10 for 27 in a given game and all have shot 37% over 3 game periods.

Why should we criticize Dirk when over that same period

he is averaging 26 points, 14 rebounds and 11 free throw attempts per game.

We shouldn't.

Dirk is averaging 26 points on 17.6 shots per game.

Duncan is averaging 23.6 on 17 shots per game.

Garnett is averaging 23.3 on 17.3 shots per game.

Why are we going to criticize the guy who is probably the front runner for the MVP award?


Yes...it is about time more people around here started calling out Dirk for his shooting over the LAST THREE FREAKING games.

[Murphy3]

With the way Dirk is getting to the line, I have little problem with him taking alot of shots. If he WASN'T getting to the line and WASN'T shooting the ball well, then you have a problem. But, Dirk's getting to the line and also looking for his teammates even if the assist column doesn't necessarily reflect that.

And yes, Dirk's shot has been a bit off the past few games. Yesterday, there were probably 4-5 shots that rimmed out. AND, there were numerous occasions where whoever had the ball just dumped it into his hands as the shot clock wound down. There wasn't much Dirk could do other than throw up a shot. At least three times he was given the ball with less than 3 seconds on the shot clock with his man draped all over him.

So, you have to look a bit deeper than just shot attempts. If Dirk actually does get 25 or more shot attempts a game at some point during this season, he'll probably put 40+ on the board. Yesterday, he was just a tad off and forced some things a couple of times. However, the ball was in the right player's hands.

[Murphy3]

Fin will get the 'free pass' from me when he attacks the rim and gets to the line. He did earlier in the season when he was something like 5-22 or whatever but everything he missed was at the rim.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley

This is my original post. It's the second one made on the 3rd page. The first thing I did was give Dirk credit for the rebounds, then steals, then the ft's. Nothing wrong with my questioning the shot attempts in that game. Nothing.

And it's not my questioning who should take the most shots. I think I've been on record as saying Dirk has that right. I'm talking about this one game and one game alone. Why would anyone want to turn it into another who should take more shots debate?

TheBenger and dude, you've taken my comment on whether Finley will be given the same pass and turned it into a different argument. If you had read that part carefully you'd notice that I was talking about excuses and injuries. When Fin comes back and misses his first shot or two, there will be people screaming for him to be traded. You're not going to hear, "give him some time, he's been out 3 weeks." That's the pass I'm talking about.

If you're happy with Dirk taking 20 shots per game and shooting 37%, fine. Sorry if I want more for/from him than being another Iverson or Kobe. I won't make another comment about it again.

MFF.... Agreed, if dirk continued to do it then there would be more than reason to hollar and he would be an iverson/kobe..but he won't be and I think we both know it. He wouldn't continue throwing up that many shots if he continued to shot at that pace.

I guess it just seems to me that he's taking a lot of shots and not great ones mainly because we just don't have too many good options out there right now, he's getting a lot of attention with very little place to go with the ball that's any better than him jacking it up.

OTOH however, finley (and josh for example) get more of a pass when it's obvious what else is being done.

[bcrav4]

Look. Getting to the free throw line means that Dirk is being fouled on the shot. He is not going to make every shooting foul because he is being fouled...hard! At least three or four of the misses came from driving to the hole and getting fouled on the way up.

[grndmstr_c]

If you're fouled and miss it's not counted as a fga. Or am I misunderstanding you?

[sike]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Or am I misunderstanding you?

no you're not....he just learned a new rule.