GDT: Game 11 - Mavs (6-4) at Knicks (2-9) 7:00 TNT

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

On the "glass is half full" side of things, Luka is so freaking good that 33 points and a triple double for him is now only a "nice performance, mostly."

The notion that Luka had just a 'nice performance, mostly' is sad. The dude produces double and triple what any other Mav contributes. He is having an MVP level start to the season in his 2nd year. It's far too early to be that spoiled and start "expecting" these kinds of numbers from him especially with the supporting cast. I'm surprised that he averages basically 10ast/game. It very well could be 12 or 13 per if we had a better roster or guys who could shoot or finish more consistently.

Luka is so good...it's almost too good to be true.

[endtroducing MASKED]

I still like Carlisle and by no means want him fired, he just wasn’t good last night at all.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Not to dogpile on Carlisle, but I do think he bears some responsibility for KP's struggles. For the life of me, I can't figure out why a Luka-KP pick and roll isn't the bread and butter of our offense. We should be running that on every possession. I swear I don't remember them doing it once all last night. Instead we see KP posting up smaller defenders really badly, and occasionally floating around the 3pt line. Carlisle himself has said more than once that it's on him to get KP going early. Constant pick and rolls and pick and pops seem to be the easiest way to do that.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Not to dogpile on Carlisle, but I do think he bears some responsibility for KP's struggles. For the life of me, I can't figure out why a Luka-KP pick and roll isn't the bread and butter of our offense. We should be running that on every possession. I swear I don't remember them doing it once all last night. Instead we see KP posting up smaller defenders really badly, and occasionally floating around the 3pt line. Carlisle himself has said more than once that it's on him to get KP going early. Constant pick and rolls and pick and pops seem to be the easiest way to do that.

Thank you!

Youtube Porzingis vs 'any team we have played' and just watch how ineffective his picks are. That's why he and Luka aren't synched and why he is in awkward positions on the floor on the offense.

[Simon2]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Thank you!

Youtube Porzingis vs 'any team we have played' and just watch how ineffective his picks are. That's why he and Luka aren't synched and why he is in awkward positions on the floor on the offense.

What’s the point of being 7’3 if he just shoots 3s all day? Yes. Pick and roll should be their bread and butter.

Kinda tired of Dwight’s flopping. He is physically being beat up. Of course it is not his fault he has to take the bruiser of the other team coz KP can’t. That’s 150 million for you.

Just another case, of Carlisle not using his players to their strengths.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The notion that Luka had just a 'nice performance, mostly' is sad. The dude produces double and triple what any other Mav contributes. He is having an MVP level start to the season in his 2nd year. It's far too early to be that spoiled and start "expecting" these kinds of numbers from him especially with the supporting cast. I'm surprised that he averages basically 10ast/game. It very well could be 12 or 13 per if we had a better roster or guys who could shoot or finish more consistently.

Luka is so good...it's almost too good to be true.

Nice performance: 33/10/11 is tempered (for me) by 3/12 from 3-point range; there's also the timing of some of those missed 3s. And 2 of his 3 TOs came again in crunch time. No question he can produce numbers, but at some point numbers have to convert into putting a team away, no? Especially a bottom-feeding team like the NYKs. I tip my hat to him, though, he did NOT shrink from the situation.

Expecting: I agree that big-number games can be entertaining to watch, but it seems the faster pace of the modern game has inflated stats, and that the value of a triple-double in 2019 isn't what it was in 1979. Ultimately, I don't care about Luka putting up a gaudy stat line, let alone EXPECT it. Or if he's going to go off, I'd personally rather see 20 points and 20 assists, rather then 40 points and 10 assists, because the former means that he's creating and orchestrating a diversified team threat. I look forward to seeing his game mature, and seeing him play a controlled game rather than a flashy one.

Too Good to be True: Luka is more than twice as good as I anticipated; and maybe half as good as some people make him out to be. Plenty of room for him to improve, and no reason for him to be immune from scrutiny or above criticism. I certainly agree that he shows the potential to be a dominant player over the next decade, not just in terms of flashy stat lines, but as an NBA champion; sometimes, though, all the gushing, fawning, swooning superlatives feel like consuming too much sugary candy.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Nice performance: 33/10/11 is tempered (for me) by 3/12 from 3-point range; there's also the timing of some of those missed 3s. And 2 of his 3 TOs came again in crunch time. No question he can produce numbers, but at some point numbers have to convert into putting a team way, no? Especially a bottom-feeding team like the NYKs. I tip my hat to him, though, he did NOT shrink from the situation.

Expecting: I agree that big-number games can be entertaining to watch, but it seems the faster pace of the modern game has inflated stats, and that the value of a triple-double in 2019 isn't what it was in 1979. Ultimately, I don't care about Luka putting up a gaudy stat line, let alone EXPECT it. Or if he's going to go off, I'd personally rather see 20 points and 20 assists, rather then 40 points and 10 assists, because the former means that he's creating and orchestrating a diversified team threat. I look forward to seeing his game mature, and seeing him play a controlled game rather than a flashy one.

Too Good to be True: Luka is more than twice as good as I anticipated; and maybe half as good as some people make him out to be. Plenty of room for him to improve, and no reason for him to be immune from scrutiny or above criticism. I certainly agree that he shows the potential to be a dominant player over the next decade, not just in terms of flashy stat lines, but as an NBA champion; sometimes, though, all the gushing, fawning, swooning superlatives feel like consuming too much sugary candy.

Very well said. Couldn’t agree more.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by Simon2

Kinda tired of Dwight’s flopping. He is physically being beat up. Of course it is not his fault he has to take the bruiser of the other team coz KP can’t. That’s 150 million for you.

Agree that Powell is difficult to enjoy watching. But damned if he doesn't look productive in the stats. Seems like he hasn't developed that middle gear yet, it's all launch or crash; seems like he gets rigid when he gets the ball (assuming he catches it), and can mostly only go up all-or-nothing. Maybe I recall a couple of flashes recently of him understanding how to slow down and convert an easy bucket, so perhaps there's hope.

I think whoever plays alongside Porzingis is going to be expected to play the role of utility foul-absorbing bruiser, like Rambis for Kareem, Ivarroni for Malone, Oakley for Ewing, Thorpe for Olajuwon, and the string of 4s that Pop played at 5 alongside Duncan, a 5 playing 4.

In NY, KP had Kanter and O'Quinn, the latter being the more classic bruiser, and the player who, to my eye, brought out the best in some of KP's game. O'Quinn could match up defensively with more physical players, and take fouls defending them, with KP a weakside threat as a shotblocker. O'Quinn could also convert inside on tough offensive rebounds, and would draw the occasional and-1. He also had a decent mid-range jumper that complemented how the NIX used KP. He wasn't as effective as DP as a rim-runner, but on balance, I'd say his physicality complemented KP's game better. O'Quinn was available this year as a UFA, and signed cheap with the Sixers to play as a reserve behind Embiid and Horford. I wonder whether that Mavs even considered him, and if not, why.

I appreciate Powell's attitude and effort, but I think he would be more effective as a frontcourt reserve (8th or 9th man) than as a starter, akin to a Scott Williams-role with the Classic Bulls. (Also, if I recall correctly, he did NOT opt out of his contract, rather the Mavs signed him to an extension, which helped them with cap management this year. Not DP's fault if they blew free agency, he helped how he could.)

Bottom line: Yes, they could definitely use a talent upgrade at the 5, and this should benefit KP's game, assuming the offense is flexible enough to take advantage of a different type player.

[Melonhead]

This is what you get for a 'eh the offseason wasnt SOO bad'. Like we traded Barnes to open up space and got nothing for it.

Ultimately it falls on the front office and everything trickles down from there. Carlisle thinks he needs to be a magician but role guys cant be role guys when theyre asked to go above their norm AND be jerked around each game.

I refuse to sit around and watch Luka do MVP stuff every night carrying carcasses like Dirk did. If that continues into next season, you can expect Luka to start looking elsewhere.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Nice performance: 33/10/11 is tempered (for me) by 3/12 from 3-point range; there's also the timing of some of those missed 3s. And 2 of his 3 TOs came again in crunch time. No question he can produce numbers, but at some point numbers have to convert into putting a team away, no? Especially a bottom-feeding team like the NYKs. I tip my hat to him, though, he did NOT shrink from the situation.

Expecting: I agree that big-number games can be entertaining to watch, but it seems the faster pace of the modern game has inflated stats, and that the value of a triple-double in 2019 isn't what it was in 1979. Ultimately, I don't care about Luka putting up a gaudy stat line, let alone EXPECT it. Or if he's going to go off, I'd personally rather see 20 points and 20 assists, rather then 40 points and 10 assists, because the former means that he's creating and orchestrating a diversified team threat. I look forward to seeing his game mature, and seeing him play a controlled game rather than a flashy one.

Too Good to be True: Luka is more than twice as good as I anticipated; and maybe half as good as some people make him out to be. Plenty of room for him to improve, and no reason for him to be immune from scrutiny or above criticism. I certainly agree that he shows the potential to be a dominant player over the next decade, not just in terms of flashy stat lines, but as an NBA champion; sometimes, though, all the gushing, fawning, swooning superlatives feel like consuming too much sugary candy.

If guys would hit more open shots from his passes it would put teams away. It would also help if our defense wasn't garbage. It's not logical to expect Luka to carry more than what he is, Obviously aside from a cpl turnovers or a cpl bad 3pt attempts. If everyone produced more, we would be winning more of the close games..not if Luka gave more. The reason everyone agrees we need a 3rd option is because Luka is doing everything he can to win and is wayyyy more ready to contend than the other Mavs.

[Zaknaf3in]

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

I still like Carlisle and by no means want him fired, he just wasn’t good last night at all.

This. I think this is something easily forgot. Besides the day-to-day work on schemes and plays, the coaching during a game will differ in quality/performance from game to game, much as the players' implementation of said schemes will.

Not sure how much of last night comes down to this, but coaches have nights off, too.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The same people defending that nonsense are the same ones who didn't think the offseason was so bad.

I get that minute restrictions are now a permanent part of the modern NBA, but your team has to have actually EARNED them. You can't just piss away wins when you aren't good enough. The FO put the Mavs in this position by whiffing this offseason, so what other choice is there? I guess lose games?

I've never defended the offseason. I wanted Vuc. In the record predictions thread, I voted for the 36-40 option. Also the notion that 35 minutes = minutes restrictions is laughable.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

70 percent of the final quarter

He came in at 5:52. So he played half the quarter.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Not almost. MOST of the 4th.

8 seconds

[FreshJive]

Perhaps playing Luka the whole 3rd quarter is not the correct strategy. Something like what Joshi suggested might be the way to go about it, but last night the only reason the game was still winnable was because of Luka's big 3rd quarter performance.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Funny seeing fans post stats around social media on how we aren't a good three point shooting team yet we heave them at will. All the while our best percentage-wise three point shooter gets a DNP. I'm not sure why this is rocket science.

[EricaLubarsky]

Mavs team rankings after 11 games

Offense
2nd offensive rating
5th fewest TOs
12th in eFG%
22nd in pace
18th in 3pt%
4th in 3pt attempts
18th in assist % (last year we were 13th)

Defense
21st in defensive rating
29th in steals
22nd in blocks
8th worst in second-chance points given up
18th in opponent 3pt % against us

Misc
12th in rebounding % at 50.4%
28th in opponent TOs forced

Mavs are scoring a lot of points, but not working terribly well together (assist%). They're also shooting a lot of threes, but so far not hitting them terribly efficiently.

Defense has just been a pit. Nothing really positive to report. We're just giving up a lot of 2pters, 3pters, and second-chance points.

Rebounding is decent!

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

8 seconds

My mistake. I thought it was about the 5:30 mark. Doesn't change a damn thing though. It was still a bad call.

[Heezzi]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Still think we need a player with a bully attitude and/or an intimidating presence on this team.

Stack in 2006 and DeShawn in 2011 help support my case.

Mejiri?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

This is what you get for a 'eh the offseason wasnt SOO bad'. Like we traded Barnes to open up space and got nothing for it.

Ultimately it falls on the front office and everything trickles down from there. Carlisle thinks he needs to be a magician but role guys cant be role guys when theyre asked to go above their norm AND be jerked around each game.

I refuse to sit around and watch Luka do MVP stuff every night carrying carcasses like Dirk did. If that continues into next season, you can expect Luka to start looking elsewhere.

Must spread rep

Delon looked so promising to start the season. Brunson had some nice moments. They now both seem adrift. Brunson especially looks miserable. Seth is not engaged. Is RC doing his soul-sucking of guards routine? Just let them play! And get some structure and stability or semblance of a rotation asap. Rick is out thinking himself here.

[mac222b]

Panic trade for CP3 incoming...
Hey, maybe if we give them a couple of firsts they’ll take THJ AND Powell off our hands!

[mac222b]

Also, Rick AGAIN caught out with no timeout left to advance the ball. I don’t remember this happening so consistently in years past.

Watching end of Utah vs Memphis reminded me. Quinn Snyder had two left for the final minute.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Also, Rick AGAIN caught out with no timeout left to advance the ball. I don’t remember this happening so consistently in years past.

Watching end of Utah vs Memphis reminded me. Quinn Snyder had two left for the final minute.

I think what is most surprising is the fact that Memphis is 3-0 in games decided by 3 points or less

When you watch them play it's like night and day compared our mavs.

Most people would assume that Dallas is better team than Memphis in late game situations but that's not the case.

Our guys jack up 3's and play piss poor defense in late game situations. While Memphis aggressively attacks the rim. That kid j.morant seems to understand late game situations and really takes smart shots

They are just as young the mavs as a team but you can clearly see coaching has elevated them in late game situations.

[cutlerny313]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Panic trade for CP3 incoming...
Hey, maybe if we give them a couple of firsts they’ll take THJ AND Powell off our hands!

to be honest I think CP3 would help. You look at his stats he has always been a great shooter all around. He's tough defensively, plays with a chip. And I think after being traded out of Houston for westbrook he's probably much more humbled now and willing to play a smaller role within in a team.


it would not take much to get CP3 since we are eating the huge contract
hardaway and lee would match up CP3 money wise. Thunder get an expiring deal with lee and 2 years of hardaway at 20 mil instead of CP3 at 3 years 35 mil. Probably some draft picks would be involved.

We need a proven third scorer and ball handler to help Luka. nobody on this team currently can you can give us 15ppg every night and do it efficiently. CP3 knows how to play the point but is a great shooter that can play off the ball. He is a better shooter than Wright, Brunson and Curry (currently)

Luka is asked to to way to much in terms of scoring and playmaking. You can see how much we take a hit when he goes to the bench.
Wright, Brunson, Curry, DFS are not legit starters on a contending team. Look at the top teams in the west and who their guards are. None of our guys would start for them. They are solid bench guys up 25 min a game. But they will never give is 15ppg every night nor can I see them bust out for 25 point on occasion. Not once all season has anyone outside of KP and Doncic scored more than 20.
Veteran presence is needed, control the game at times. Even help reel Luka in when is gets wild with the long shots.

C- Kleber
- KP
- Doncic
- Wright
- CP3

Bench:
Boban, Powell, DFS, Jackson, Curry, Brunson

[Bryan_Wilson]

I don't really want CP3. What we need are wings. It's been a problem for a while and it's a huge problem now. We need 3 and d wings. Not 3 with no d and d with no 3. Seth isn't a starter. Neither is THJ or Dodo. Delon looks like he doesn't fit with Luka offensively and Brunson looks like he doesn't fit defensively and might barely fit offensively but not really.

You can get away with Kleber KP Powell and Boban imo at the front court but the wings are, to me, the biggest issue. None of those guys are phenomenal on the boards. And when we go small the guys we bring in don't help there and have huge flaws defensively when we do that.... which leads me to...

I'm more than tired of seeing Dodo at the 4. The other issue to me is the 4 spot minutes when KP is at the 5 and when he's out. It's not as big of a problem as the wing but for me it's still a problem. It looks ugly for offense and defense and almost half Dodo's minutes are coming at the 4. He's a 30%3pt shooter who grabs 3 rebs in 26mins. Why in the hell is he playing so much 4? Who gave him the Parsons mix tape, hopefully there isn't such a thing, and told him to pump fake all his 3's and drive the lane and be a playmaker?

And finally, I'd love a defensive coach to come in and do something about this defense. I'm not even talking about replacing RC I'm saying we haven't coached defense in so long I laugh every time we even mention the word because it looks like an all star game a lot of times. Even the effort level is piss poor. Guys barely go around screens chasing guys who can't shoot or go under on screens to elite shooters and the defense just stands and watches refusing to leave their man instead of hustling and rotating hard to at least make teams work for it and spend energy doing so.

[sefant77]

Trading for CP3 would be a monumental brainfart. Nothing more to say.

Originally Posted by cutlerny313

to be honest I think CP3 would help. You look at his stats he has always been a great shooter all around.

Why would we care about prime Paul shooting numbers if we are trading for old ass Paul?

https://www.basketball-reference.com...02&idx=players

[mac222b]

Spot on post Bryan Wilson. Lol’d at Parsons mixtape. I agree about the defensive effort! Someone needs to light a fire under these guys.

I saw that Marcus Morris step back 3 to win the game a mile away. No one made him put the ball in the floor in our two games against them. Sloppy perimeter defense against all Knicks actually

[Skywalker]

I'd watch the hell out of that mixtape tbh

[hayth.james.g]

Can’t believe someone actually tried to look at the good in acquiring CP3. It’s not about his immediate “potential” value. Yeah, maybe he puts us in the 4-6 seed conversation this year. But he is also gimping you’re team on that awful contract. No way!!

[sefant77]

Yeah....yes, Luka is dying to go to the playoffs, we all are.

But how our roster is constructed right now, its all about adding the final piece in 2021. One that fits the timeline better than the Chris Pauls and Kevin Loves and hopefully one that is better than them too.

[mavsjunkie]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The notion that Luka had just a 'nice performance, mostly' is sad. The dude produces double and triple what any other Mav contributes. He is having an MVP level start to the season in his 2nd year. It's far too early to be that spoiled and start "expecting" these kinds of numbers from him especially with the supporting cast. I'm surprised that he averages basically 10ast/game. It very well could be 12 or 13 per if we had a better roster or guys who could shoot or finish more consistently.

Luka is so good...it's almost too good to be true.

I'm actually nervous about something. When Luka's contract is up, will he want to move on? This organization has very little time to get this team up to par, IMO. I don't think he want's to play with trash most if not all of his career.

[EricaLubarsky]

Mavs have the greatest player under 20 in the NBA and we're still down in the dumps.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Mavs have the greatest player under 20 in the NBA and we're still down in the dumps.

And another fantastic player under 25. Even though it hasn't completely clicked yet and he's still getting re-accustomed to the game, KP is still a top tier talent in his age group.

Truthfully, is 6-5 not roughly where we were expected to be at this point? Our current record projected over 82 games would have us finish at roughly 45-37. Sounds about right to me.

I hate the we lost to the lowly Knicks- twice even- but seriously, we need to enjoy the hell out of Luka's individual performances. He's having one of the greatest sophomore seasons in history. His sophomore numbers are better than Lebron's ffs. He's legit MVP level at this point. The only thing that will stop from actually winning MVP is the fact that his shitty supporting cast will keep from winning too many games.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mavsjunkie

I'm actually nervous about something. When Luka's contract is up, will he want to move on? This organization has very little time to get this team up to par, IMO. I don't think he want's to play with trash most if not all of his career.

If I'm not mistaken, we have at least two more offseasons before we need to worry about this. That's plenty of time to at least get some decent roleplayers. Plus we have KP locked up for 5 years, which goes a LONG why towards convincing Luka to stay.

The most important thing to focus on now is getting KP right, and getting an effective two-man game going with him and Luka. If the Luka-KP connection is working, then everything else becomes 100x easier. That's the cornerstone that you build a contender around. Until we get that going, we're going to be stuck in the mud.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Trading for CP3 would be a monumental brainfart. Nothing more to say.



Why would we care about prime Paul shooting numbers if we are trading for old ass Paul?

https://www.basketball-reference.com...02&idx=players

For the same reasons why you cared about old Jason kidd and that trade worked out great in the end right?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

For the same reasons why you cared about old Jason kidd and that trade worked out great in the end right?

I don't think that's a good comparison. The Mavs were in full ring-chasing mode when they traded for a 35 year old Jason Kidd. They had just blown two golden opportunities at winning titles in 06 and 07, and they desperately needed to do something to keep the title window open while Dirk (who by then was 30) was still in his prime. The Mavs are nowhere near competing for a title, and Luka is 20, so there's no desperate scramble for an immediate upgrade.

Make no mistake, the J-Kidd trade was extremely high risk, and I honestly HATED it at the time. I thought all it did was make us older and slower without fixing our biggest weakness (lack of a high scoring shooting guard who could break defenses.) And honestly until that title in 2011, it looked like I was right. It took 3 years for that move to pay off, and a lot of other things had to fall into place first.

CP3 would no doubt be an upgrade to the current roster, but probably only a marginal upgrade, and probably only for a year two. Not worth his considerable baggage- he's been known throughout his career to be a lousy locker room presence who is always disliked by his teammates.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

For the same reasons why you cared about old Jason kidd and that trade worked out great in the end right?

we arent a win now team like we were back then

Kidds and Pauls impact on the teams payroll / cap space arent remotely comparable...

This team is constructed to grow until 2021 and add then a final piece to push it to true contender status. Thats why the FO isnt making stupid trades for Paul or Love etc

[turin]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Mavs have the greatest player under 20 in the NBA and we're still down in the dumps.

PTSD from too many wasted Dirk years. I must confess, I've got a bit of it.

[greenhorn63]

It was also stupid to reject a Dragic trade to Dallas!
Look his stats this seasson (after last seasson injury). Pat’s decision to start from the bench was also little underestimating for all star player like Dragic. And he's so much better player as Winslow....
Today could be a great 3rd option in Dallas!
But....It is almost certain that it will be traded before all stars weekend in LA (it's great desire of the Lakers), because Heat haven't enough space for his new 3years contract (something about 45 millions).
The Lakers need a player like Dragic for the playoff, but it isn't enough good for Dallas?
Dragic isn't KP...he's perfect fit with Luka and the chemistry between them is not an question!

[saclare]

Originally Posted by greenhorn63

It was also stupid to reject a Dragic trade to Dallas!
Look his stats this seasson (after last seasson injury). Pat’s decision to start from the bench was also little underestimating for all star player like Dragic. And he's so much better player as Winslow....
Today could be a great 3rd option in Dallas!
But....It is almost certain that it will be traded before all stars weekend in LA (it's great desire of the Lakers), because Heat haven't enough space for his new 3years contract (something about 45 millions).
The Lakers need a player like Dragic for the playoff, but it isn't enough good for Dallas?
Dragic isn't KP...he's perfect fit with Luka and the chemistry between them is not an question!

I'm down with Goran, but he's been pretty useful in their hot start. You'd almost have to hope for the Heat to drag into the trade deadline or for Goran to become disgruntled. I don't see it happening this year.