General Election GDT 11/04/2008

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I think you raise an interesting point. Do 92% of African-Americans really think alike? Do 92% of any ethnic group really think alike? There are other groups with which people voluntarily associate themselves (e.g., religious), and I don't think THOSE groups vote in a 92% bloc.

THANK YOU. That's all I'm saying. I've wondered this for the last few election cycles, to answer Dtown's question. It's always been a given that over 90% of black people vote Democratic, but nobody says why. The unspoken assumption is just, "hey, they're black," which works against the progress we've made in perception of people based on race alone.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

My point is that you can't say race had no part of this. it's incredibly naive to do so.

Agreed - it's also equally naive to say race had EVERYTHING to do with this...


Everyone voted for their own reason...

[Big Boy Laroux]

oh, i agree, Underdog. I'm not saying Race had everything to do with it. But anytime someone mentions race, silk swoops in with a race-baiting accusation as if race had no bearing on this election whatsoever, and to even suggest it makes you David Duke.

[92bDad]

Issues from this election:

* Republican Campaign - perception issue = Bush Administration - deserving of some blame, but the failure to hilight solutions was a factor. = Republicans must do a better job of campaigning there message and standing on the promises of their message, rather than pander to Democrats
* Media Blitz - This is an element and it comes in the form of opinion entertainment. The Liberals went on a full scale blitz as they blamed talk radio for Democrats losing to start this century and they were unable to gain any ground with liberl propoganda talk radio, so they took to the TV Broadcast as a forum. There they have genuine power and numbers and presented story/opinion over and over demonizing Bush, his administration and generally only sharing the negative. The solution is not so simple as the media has the power and control. Obviously calling out the media makes Republicans look like sour grapes - I of all voters should understand this - So the genuine question - how do you combat the bias of the National Media?
* Democrats and there appeal to the African-American voter - This has been an issue for years and for some reason the Republican party has failed to reach the African-American voter. What are the reason? We must be real here...there are some reason that fall on issues. But there is also a reason that is deeply seeded within the African-American culture. What will it take for some of the African-American voters to humble themselves in terms of skin color and vote based on thier own beliefs on the issues? As Skin stated that he had voted Republican...what is it that caused him to vote Republican in the past and what is that caused him to change this time around?

What are the pain points in which voters have turned away from the Republicans and how can Republicans re-target or target certain voters again/first time?

The first key to any sales strategy is knowing and understanding the pain point. So here is the opportunity for those who voted for Change to truly illustrate what the pain point is. What do the Republicans need to fine tune in order to win in the future?

Specifically as this thread has moved, what will speak to the African-American voter?

We see that we have a small number through the National Black Republicans, but they appear to be listed as "Uncle Tom's" what will it take for African-Americans to stop calling those who disagree with them as "Uncle Tom's"? What will it take for African-Americans to be able to respectfully disagree with each other and take different sides on issues without being belittled within their own community?

I am looking forward to your replies and your insight...only you know your experience and only you know what it would take to change your vote to Republican. There are many who would like to know and who are willing to do the work necessary to make this a better selection for you and for America.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

oh, i agree, Underdog. I'm not saying Race had everything to do with it.

Oh, I know - I was using "you" as a general term (I could have just as easily said "we"...)


Racism in this election is only as important as people choose for it to be - the more everyone talks about it, the more important it becomes...

[FINtastic]

Isn't it about time to lock this thread up and move discussion over to the "Obama 1-0: General Post-Election" thread?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Isn't it about time to lock this thread up and move discussion over to the "Obama 1-0: General Post-Election" thread?

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

The young demographic turned out to register and vote because Obama's campaign specifically targeted them. Have you ever seen as much internet campaigning in the past? Facebook, for example.

My point is that you can't say race had no part of this. it's incredibly naive to do so. I would venture to say that there were rednecks in my home state of Tennessee who voted republican simply because Obama is black. Rednecks traditionally vote republican, but they could have had higher registration as well, to try and ensure that an african-american would not win.

Do we have a redneck demographic breakdown?

it's all speculation, but valid speculation in my opinion.

Yea. I actually saw Obama campaigning on X-Box live lol. He was everywhere.

[92bDad]

Just as we were finally getting into some civil conversations about a genuine topic.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yea. I actually saw Obama campaigning on X-Box live lol. He was everywhere.

Aggressive marketing is also how Coke beat Pepsi - ain't nothin' new about that in America!

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yea. I actually saw Obama campaigning on X-Box live lol. He was everywhere.

Xbox, really? That's impressive. Elections really are about money.

It's funny... Obama worked harder and smarter =>> earned more money =>> got ahead of everyone else because of that hard work and money =>> won the election.

But his entire economic philosophy is to take away from people who work harder and smarter, so that they don't get too far ahead of other people, so that "everyone "behind" them has a fair chance too," as he told Joe the plumber. By his own logic, shouldn't he have given some of his money to John McCain so that he had a "chance" as well?

Ah well. It's a done deal now.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

But his entire economic philosophy is to take away from people who work harder and smarter, so that they don't get too far ahead of other people, so that "everyone "behind" them has a fair chance too," as he told Joe the plumber. By his own logic, shouldn't he have given some of his money to John McCain so that he had a "chance" as well?

Ah well. It's a done deal now.

The people that work hardest and smartest will always be able to skim the most off of what they transfer from the merely hard-working and merely smart-working.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Oh, I know - I was using "you" as a general term (I could have just as easily said "we"...)


Racism in this election is only as important as people choose for it to be - the more everyone talks about it, the more important it becomes...

I hope you're not referring to me. I don't believe that race was the primary deciding factor for this election.. not at all. We're just discussing the race issue right now.. that doesn't mean that I believe that it was the main reason as to why Obama won. The biggest reason that I think Obama won was because of Bush. Personally, I believe a solid Democratic candidate would have blown McCain out of the water. People wanted change.. and millions were willing to accept the promise of change from Obama because he was not a Republican.

I do believe that Americans will get a rude awakening when they/we discover what that change is...but, hey, the Democrats took advantage of a near no lose situation. It would have taken a total screw-up and a horrible candidate to lose this election for the Democrats.. Instead, the Democrats had a mediocre at best candidate to go along with a soild campaign. That was enough.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I hope you're not referring to me.

No, I wasn't referring to anyone on this board - I'm talking about America as a whole...


(92bDad is the only person here who I've referred to personally - and that's only because he doesn't understand why anyone would have a problem with the asinine tripe he spouts... Not that his opinions are worth less than anyone else's, just that he contradicts himself and says some pretty ugly things without acknowledging why he's being so offensive...)

[Murphy3]

cool..just making sure.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

THANK YOU. That's all I'm saying. I've wondered this for the last few election cycles, to answer Dtown's question. It's always been a given that over 90% of black people vote Democratic, but nobody says why. The unspoken assumption is just, "hey, they're black," which works against the progress we've made in perception of people based on race alone.

The simple answer why is that Republicans don't make much of an effort at all to win over their vote (which is what it is because of long history). Why do Republicans not do much to win the black vote?

But it's a moot point anyway. If blacks still didn't have the legal right to vote, Obama still would have won. So why is this conversation going on?

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I think you raise an interesting point. Do 92% of African-Americans really think alike? Do 92% of any ethnic group really think alike? There are other groups with which people voluntarily associate themselves (e.g., religious), and I don't think THOSE groups vote in a 92% bloc.

I think this is less a statement of the black electorate than it is a statement about the GOP. In the 1960s republicans actively courted the (for lack of a better term) racist vote, in order to capture the "solid south" away from the democrats. It worked. Unfortunately, the feelings still linger. AND while I believe that for the most part the broader national GOP agenda tries to at this point to avoid tweaking these issues... the party is still the more likely receptical of people with racist tendencies:

if you are loony moonbat that wants to align the crystals human emotion into their propper biorhythms and achive the chi of national unity and psychic correctedness... (or also if you are a commie bastage)... you self select yourself into the democrats.

if you are a racist, closet or otherwise, you self select into the republicans.

Both national parties would like to marginalize these end of the spectrum groups in their party... but they are there nonetheless. It allows plenty of people (here and elsewhere) to grossly mischaracterize Dems as all loonbat commies, with plenty of resonance in certain receptive audiences. And it likewise allows the characterization of the GOP as snarling racists. PARTICULARLY with the basic republican loss of the moderate north-east "rockefeller-republicans. This scares away lots of potentially sympathetic blacks.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The simple answer why is that Republicans don't make much of an effort at all to win over their vote (which is what it is because of long history). Why do Republicans not do much to win the black vote?

But it's a moot point anyway. If blacks still didn't have the legal right to vote, Obama still would have won. So why is this conversation going on?

Yea see that's the thing I don't understand. The black vote helped but it didn't win the election. Not by a long shot. So why is it a cause of concern that blacks voted democrat like they've been doing for years now?

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

But his entire economic philosophy is to take away from people who work harder and smarter, so that they don't get too far ahead of other people, so that "everyone "behind" them has a fair chance too," as he told Joe the plumber. By his own logic, shouldn't he have given some of his money to John McCain so that he had a "chance" as well?
.

No. it isn't. That was the characteriztion that was pushed by the GOP about Obama's economic policies... but the reality has a candidate that has assembled a MUCH more impressive cadre of traditional economists to tune his policies, that as stated are preffered by a majority of professional economists (as published by both the NBER and the economist magazine)

[92bDad]

Okay, full disclosure...

I write on these boards without a filter, or at least with a very limited filter. I allow my emotions to feed into and fuel what I have to say. Honestly, to a certain level of detriment to my own message. So be it. For that I apologize.

Like all of us here, I have good and bad days. Again, my apologies for letting emotion spill over into my communications.

Now today, we have had several truly great discussions and we have managed to stay on point, for that I congratulate everyone!!!

There are some here who relay what I'm thinking in a much more eloquant way. While others just simply ignore my perspectives.

I am not one to memorize details, once I have seen and processed the information I form my opinion. Thus I live on my beliefs and my interpretations of what is presented to me.

I choose to live a faith based life, I don't need to find scientific reason to justify what I believe, but rather I must work to improve myself and to choose better with each passing moment as to how I represent my faith. I'll admit, I do a pretty crappy job of representing...that doesn't give any reason to minimize my beliefs...I'm just a flawed individual.

Anyway, I have grown in major resentment over the past 8 years at the treatment of President Bush, his administration and at Republican voters in general.

My apologies if that anger has spilled over in the past 24 hours and the past few weeks.

My distaste for Democrats is a clear result of the way they have acted in general over the past 8 years and to some extent a few years prior...as I truly began to pay attention to the impact that government has on our day to day lives.

Perhaps if I could hear Democrats taking responsibilities for their own issues, then I would take my eyes back over to how Republicans could improve from within.

Honestly, I feel as though Republicans came into this with a "Conservative" agenda and took their best foot forward, then within days of starting, attempted to reach across and unit America from a political view. Working hard to find the middle ground, but I feel as though Democrats resisted and essentially dug in to get as far left as possible.

My impression is that Left Wing America has taken what ever the Conservatives were willing to bend on, but that they have not provided the same give/take reach across the aisle and now, I fear that they will take even more...all the while by pinning the blame back on Republicans.

It's as if the Democrats believe that they are better than everyone else with little respect or tolerance for another point of view.

Forgive me if I am upset, frustrated and angry for feeling as though the Democrats have cheated nearly half of America. Certainly the Democrats will lead this nation in support of their voters, I want to know what they plan to do to reach across and unite with the other half of America? Are they willing to reach across as the Repubicans have, or are they going to stick to their left-wing ideals and not give in to the benefit of all Americans?

Again, there is a history that clouds my judgement, and I have -0- trust that Democrats will do right by All American, but rather a select few.

Perhaps if a Democrat could come out an Praise President Bush for the recent success of Iraq, I would soften my stance. The election is over, perhaps now they could acknowledge the positives of President Bush...is there a Democrat willing to do this? Could Obama actually state publicly now that the surge worked and his original view was WRONG regarding the surge?

I admit my wrongs, as I have done, Republicans in general have a great track record of admitting wrongs and doing something to change bad decisions...but rarely have I ever seen a Democrat do the same. This is about Character and again, I simply do not trust the Democrats and their type of Character.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

I think this is less a statement of the black electorate than it is a statement about the GOP. In the 1960s republicans actively courted the (for lack of a better term) racist vote, in order to capture the "solid south" away from the democrats. It worked. Unfortunately, the feelings still linger.

I could see older blacks still viewing the Republican party in that manner, but middle-aged and younger blacks? I know for certain that many socially conservative blacks vote Democrat even while they vote otherwise on social issues (e.g., Prop 8 in California). That seems to be an inherent conflict, so perhaps you are right.

If you were a Republican strategist, how would you seek to appeal to black voters and dispel the notion that the Republican party is racist?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

If you were a Republican strategist, how would you seek to appeal to black voters and dispel the notion that the Republican party is racist?

They could start by getting behind a solid black candidate.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

If you were a Republican strategist, how would you seek to appeal to black voters and dispel the notion that the Republican party is racist?

A good start would be to tell people who yell "He's a terrorist! Kill him!" at your stump speech to shut the hell up the FIRST time they do it - I think Palin dropped the ball on that one... Sure, McCain addressed it a week later, but the damage had already been done to the Republican image...

And yeah, I know the "terrorist" comment was in relation to Bill Ayers, but it came from the same crowd who also likes to toss "Hussein" around in a negative connotation - voters will draw whatever conclusions they want from comments like that when the people who say them go unscolded by the candidate they support (especially when they're standing right in front of them!)

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

They could start by getting behind a solid black candidate.

Who are some candidates that you can list, whom fit your criteria and support the Republican views?

I Am a Republican Because . . .


I BELIEVE the strength of our nation lies with the individual and that each person's dignity, freedom, ability and responsibility must be honored.

I BELIEVE in equal rights, equal justice and equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, creed, sex, age or disability.

I BELIEVE free enterprise and encouraging individual initiative have brought this nation opportunity, economic growth and prosperity.

I BELIEVE government must practice fiscal responsibility and allow individuals to keep more of the money they earn.

I BELIEVE the proper role of government is to provide for the people only those critical functions that cannot be performed by individuals or private organizations and that the best government is that which governs least.

I BELIEVE the most effective, responsible and responsive government is government closest to the people.

I BELIEVE Americans must retain the principles that have made us strong while developing new and innovative ideas to meet the challenges of changing times.

I BELIEVE Americans value and should preserve our national strength and pride while working to extend peace, freedom and human rights throughout the world.

Finally, I BELIEVE the Republican Party is the best vehicle for translating these ideals into positive and successful principles of government.



Source: Political Division of the Republican National Committee

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Who are some candidates that you can list, whom fit your criteria and support the Republican views?

Condoleezza Rice (based on your listed beliefs...)

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yea see that's the thing I don't understand. The black vote helped but it didn't win the election. Not by a long shot. So why is it a cause of concern that blacks voted democrat like they've been doing for years now?

It has less to do with Obama than you guys realize.. it just came up out of the discussions about Obama and race. We're all well aware it's been going on for years, and we're all just talking about why. Discussions branch off, guys. Obama isn't even really a huge part of it.

But I give up. It has been scientifically determined that 90% of black people vote for Democrats because 90% of black people vote for Democrats. Case closed, all experts have weighed in.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

It has less to do with Obama than you guys realize.. it just came up out of the discussions about Obama and race. We're all well aware it's been going on for years, and we're all just talking about why. Discussions branch off, guys. Obama isn't even really a huge part of it.

But I give up. It has been scientifically determined that 90% of black people vote for Democrats because 90% of black people vote for Democrats. Case closed, all experts have weighed in.

You want a reason why black people always vote Democrat?

Because this man gave them the right to:

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Condoleezza Rice (based on your listed beliefs...)

She gets my support.

I have also heard good things about former Steeler, Lynn Swan...anybody have information on his views and political style?

[Rhylan]

I understand Republicans were stupid in the 1960s. (And still are, but maybe not so much racially). But what good is the right to vote if you're just gonna keep on voting for the same party at a 90% clip 40 years on? You're serving the party moreso than serving yourself.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You want a reason why black people always vote Democrat?

Because this man gave them the right to:

Good for him.

Of course it would be more interesting if we opened up the flood gates on the Democratic Party.

Perhaps a sampling can be had at this link: http://www.wrongonrace.com/default.asp

Search through the pages, read the quotes by:

James Webb (D) 1990
Roberty Byrd (D) throughout the 2nd half of the 1900's and a KKK member
Thomas Jefferson - co founder of the Democratic Party
William Jennings Bryan (D) 1923 (Presidential Nominee of the Democrats in 1896, 1900, 1908 and then appointed secretary of state by Woodrow Wilson in 1913
Hugo Black (D) accepting membership into the KKK in 1926 and later appointed to the Supreme Court by FDR (D) in 1937

The quotes by these people were actually more disturbing than anything I have ever posted on any board...thus you can choose to visit the link above and read the information for yourself.

At the end of the day, what I see is a voting bloc being USED and when somone voices it, we are labled racist.

The Democrats have a strong history of being elitist and doing whatever it takes, even manipulating a group of people to support their own thirst for power and reign over others.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

I understand Republicans were stupid in the 1960s. (And still are, but maybe not so much racially). But what good is the right to vote if you're just gonna keep on voting for the same party at a 90% clip 40 years on? You're serving the party moreso than serving yourself.

I don't disagree, but we're also talking about people descended from slaves - it's not like they got to bring their culture with them... They've been trying to flesh-out an identity for the last 150 years, so it's not surprising that they've latched onto something familiar...

But Obama opens the door wide open for African-Americans - they're going to create their OWN political identity going forward and I have no doubt the political landscape will change as a result... As there becomes less difference between how blacks and whites are treated in this country, then there will become less difference in how we vote...

It will take time - maybe another generation or two, but it will happen... We're all one people, we just don't realize it yet (but we're catching on...)

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Good for him.

Of course it would be more interesting if we opened up the flood gates on the Democratic Party.

Perhaps a sampling can be had at this link: http://www.wrongonrace.com/default.asp

Search through the pages, read the quotes by:

James Webb (D) 1990
Roberty Byrd (D) throughout the 2nd half of the 1900's and a KKK member
Thomas Jefferson - co founder of the Democratic Party
William Jennings Bryan (D) 1923 (Presidential Nominee of the Democrats in 1896, 1900, 1908 and then appointed secretary of state by Woodrow Wilson in 1913
Hugo Black (D) accepting membership into the KKK in 1926 and later appointed to the Supreme Court by FDR (D) in 1937

The quotes by these people were actually more disturbing than anything I have ever posted on any board...thus you can choose to visit the link above and read the information for yourself.

At the end of the day, what I see is a voting bloc being USED and when somone voices it, we are labled racist.

The Democrats have a strong history of being elitist and doing whatever it takes, even manipulating a group of people to support their own thirst for power and reign over others.

You do realize you're talking about the Southern Dixiecrats, right?

Comparing them to modern Democrats is like comparing Republicans to the Whig Party - it's irrelevant at this point in history...

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I could see older blacks still viewing the Republican party in that manner, but middle-aged and younger blacks? I know for certain that many socially conservative blacks vote Democrat even while they vote otherwise on social issues (e.g., Prop 8 in California). That seems to be an inherent conflict, so perhaps you are right.

If you were a Republican strategist, how would you seek to appeal to black voters and dispel the notion that the Republican party is racist?

The party has never tried very hard to court the black vote. I think for a long time this WAS because they didn't want to rock the apple cart and threaten the relatively newfound wealth of the new solid-REPUBLICAN-south. (if you look at yesterday's electoral map... where would the GOP be without the south? Utah?) But that is yesterday's news to them, and they have to move forward. A central tennet of Turdblossem's long-run GOP strategy was supposedly to increase inclusiveness, particularly courting latin voters. This was shot in the head by first the enhanced war-on-terror (which in its darker moments lent itself towards a definate fear of foreigners) and then the huge illegal immigration backlash.

In a broader sense... the GOP needs to restablish its link to its third leg of support. The party used to rest on the tripod of 1) social conservatism 2) military strength 3) pro business/fiscal responsibility

they have lost 3. In practice Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers were MUCH better economic managers than Paul Oneil or John Snow (and Paulson has been embroiled in economic crisis... so it is hard for the public to view him as a stalwart of economic efficiency). Rhetoric aside, I think the Dems have simply been better in practice recently (and I also think Obama's economic team was widely more admired than Mac's, as well). The GOP has lost its image that our fathers had of the solid competency. People no longer picture a business man in a leather chair reading the wall street journal when they imagine GOP leadership... now they picture a southern preacher. There is a big difference. The GOP of today decries elitists a little too strenuously, I think.

This has kinda wandered off topic from the stated question... but not entirely. The GOP has essentially abandonded 3) and focused much more of that attention on 1) ... and these cultural issues are volatile. When you center a campaign on anti-gay marriage, you run the serious risk of bringing out the ugly in people. the policy makers may craft the language in crisp smooth terms that do not go too too far... but the general populace certainly doesn't stick to those narrow guidelines.. they take it and run. And they run into seriously ugly territory that to some extent scares away other groups that feel like they might be marginalized. Same with illegal immigration.

Furthermore, by focussing more on social issues, the GOP has also somewhat abandoned the two coasts... and, well, that is where alot of people in this country live.

IMHO, the GOP NEEDS to refocus its core image back on its business side, or it is doomed. In this regard, this drubbing might be an uncomfortable but needed wake-up. Parties are not able to reinvent themselves until they are kicked hard in the scrote, and fall back on their ass. In the medium term, the 1994 elections did the Democratic party a helluva lot of good... it pushed the loon-bat portions of the party back, at least for a while. I hope the GOP does the same --- since the Dems are now super-natuarally situated to step on their own cranks, and embrace their lunatic fringe and commit suicide.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't disagree, but we're also talking about people descended from slaves - it's not like they got to bring their culture with them... They've been trying to flesh-out an identity for the last 150 years, so it's not surprising that they've latched onto something familiar...

But Obama opens the door wide open for African-Americans - they're going to create their OWN political identity going forward and I have no doubt the political landscape will change as a result... As there becomes less difference between how blacks and whites are treated in this country, then there will become less difference in how we vote...

It will take time - maybe another generation or two, but it will happen... We're all one people, we just don't realize it yet (but we're catching on...)

Man I would be thrilled to see us do away with the party system. Can you imagine voting based on the individuals running...no straight party ticket, but rather voting sheets where you actually have a responsibility as a voter to know the candidates and where they stand.

Who knows, if Obama and McCain ran again, with no party tied to their names...I might actually vote Obama, I do emphasize MIGHT. He started it off with 2 strikes against him simply for being a Democrat.

I can safely determine the outcome of issues and political votes based on party lines and for the most part the issues that are near and dear to me, I have a completely different stance than the Democratic party. Thus it becomes a numbers game in which I would like to see less Democrats in power than Republicans.

Now imagine if there was no party affiliation and you could rely on politicians to effectively represent their constituents based on actual views.

I actually get a kick out of this at the city level...I have to go and find out where my local politicians stand on local issues, because the majority of the time, they do NOT list their party affiliation.

For all I know there may actually be some Conservative Democrats...but do they vote with conservative values or down party lines?

They talk about the Democrats shooting the filibuster proof majority...if there were no party ties, then who knows you might find 60 elected officials vote down a filibuster and actually get some work done. As it stands, politicians are more loyal to party affiliation than to the values of their constituents.

Imagine a government where we the people are fairly represented by individuals rather than a party. I'm willing to bet that you would get rid of even more 'Racial' issues, you might actually find more Conservative Latino's, Blacks and other...

Perhaps that is the secret to getting the vote to be more balanced, is to get rid of the Democrat and Republican parties!!!

Anyone else on board with that?

Any ideas on how to start such a campaign or sign up to support such a movement that may already exist?

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

OBAMA: 50,937,491
MCCAIN: 47,144,053

I realize that 51-48 is miles in a political race, but when I look at those numbers....I still see a nation that is for the most part divided, no?

How much more "divided" is the country today than 2000 or 2004?

Also, even though the options are binary, it does not mean everything is in contrast. It's not like one can split their vote. For many people (millions), their vote came down to a single issue or took until the last day before making a final call on things.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Man I would be thrilled to see us do away with the party system. Can you imagine voting based on the individuals running...no straight party ticket, but rather voting sheets where you actually have a responsibility as a voter to know the candidates and where they stand.

Who knows, if Obama and McCain ran again, with no party tied to their names...I might actually vote Obama, I do emphasize MIGHT. He started it off with 2 strikes against him simply for being a Democrat.

I can safely determine the outcome of issues and political votes based on party lines and for the most part the issues that are near and dear to me, I have a completely different stance than the Democratic party. Thus it becomes a numbers game in which I would like to see less Democrats in power than Republicans.

Now imagine if there was no party affiliation and you could rely on politicians to effectively represent their constituents based on actual views.

I actually get a kick out of this at the city level...I have to go and find out where my local politicians stand on local issues, because the majority of the time, they do NOT list their party affiliation.

For all I know there may actually be some Conservative Democrats...but do they vote with conservative values or down party lines?

They talk about the Democrats shooting the filibuster proof majority...if there were no party ties, then who knows you might find 60 elected officials vote down a filibuster and actually get some work done. As it stands, politicians are more loyal to party affiliation than to the values of their constituents.

Imagine a government where we the people are fairly represented by individuals rather than a party. I'm willing to bet that you would get rid of even more 'Racial' issues, you might actually find more Conservative Latino's, Blacks and other...

Perhaps that is the secret to getting the vote to be more balanced, is to get rid of the Democrat and Republican parties!!!

Anyone else on board with that?

Any ideas on how to start such a campaign or sign up to support such a movement that may already exist?

I voted for both Democrats and Republican candidates in this election... you don't ever do that?

[Kirobaito]

I did as well, and I don't hide the fact that I think the Republican Party as a whole is a massive pile of cow crap right now. I voted for 10 Democrats and 6 Republicans. I re-elected Kay Granger to the House because she represents this district well, even if I don't agree with her on a lot of issues.

I consider myself liberal, but I'm not a Democrat and I'm not opposed to voting for Republicans if they can get the job done. They're not, right now, in most cases, but particularly in local races, you shouldn't let party affiliation bother you. Parties even on a state level don't mean the same thing.

And 92bdad, did you really just say that you didn't know if there was such a thing as a Conservative Democrat? Good gosh, learn a little bit about American politics. It's a very well-known term.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

<snip>
And 92bdad, did you really just say that you didn't know if there was such a thing as a Conservative Democrat? Good gosh, learn a little bit about American politics. It's a very well-known term.

yes it is.... a very well known term. Just like dinosaur. It is extinct, but it is well known.


LOLOLOLOLOL

<edit> and I'm not 92bdad, I just wanted to pop off.

[mary]

I could only vote on state elections, but I voted for 1 democrat, 1 republican, and a bunch of libertarians.

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

yes it is.... a very well known term. Just like dinosaur. It is extinct, but it is well known.


LOLOLOLOLOL

<edit> and I'm not 92bdad, I just wanted to pop off.

Mary Landrieu from LA and whatshisface from Nebraska are two conservative Democratic senators. A lot of the state governments in the South are controlled by Conservative Democrats.