Mavs FA and/or Small Forward Acquisitions - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MavKikiNYC · 08-05-2002, 12:08 PM

Rashard Lewis? Kevin Garnett?

They really should come back down to Earth soon and look to sign a functional 3.

The Jazz are now looking at Harpring--he should've been Mavs target all along.

Jazz look to sign Harpring

Nellie · 08-05-2002, 12:21 PM

What about Marshal?? I don't know what he is asking for but if Utah ain't gonna sign him for it and most teams are over the cap, he might be obtainable in a S & T.

Blonde Bomber · 08-05-2002, 12:28 PM

Would much rather have Marshall than Harpring or Russell.

MavKikiNYC · 08-05-2002, 12:29 PM

Marshall has already been ruled out because of bad hair.

Seriously, I think Harpring's skills are a better fit for the Mavs, and more geared toward the 3 position. I think he should be a less expensive player too.

Marshall's game seems to be more geared toward the 4.

mpb319 · 08-05-2002, 12:36 PM

Harpring would not really be much help here. Another slower than average white guy...we would become the haven for all slow white players. Marshall is looking for a deal in the 6-8 million range...he would help us because of his size and rebounding...but he has an offer(I believe) of more than the MLE from the Jazz. Dallas needs to add speed, size, and athleticism...and while Rashard Lewis may end up being "Pie in the Sky" but he would fit in with everything Dallas needs in a SF plus he is only just turning 23. I agree that we wait on Lewis....Garnett is absolutely not going to get traded to us...if he is traded at all it will not be to a Division Rival. If Lewis resigns in Seattle I think we should go for Bryon Russell with part of the MLE and then look at another player with the rest of the exception...resign Eddie and Wang and make a run at the Midwest Division.

seelenjaeger · 08-05-2002, 01:08 PM

I can´t see why anybody insists on harpring either ... too bad Marshall is likely to sign with the Kings - actually that´s all the reason I need to pursue him

Stressboy91 · 08-05-2002, 01:22 PM

I want Lewis because of the age and potential, but if I had to choose another small forward that is available, it would be Marshall. I actually like his ability at the 4 better than Lewis and that is a plus when you have Dirk on the team. That way you could put Marshall on the better offensive player and then play them on O where the mismatch is best. Lewis really does lock Dirk in at the 4. The ideal would be Garnett who can be dominant at the 3 or 4 on O and D so he could really make up for Dirks glaring liability, but that's not going to happen.

Rod1975 · 08-05-2002, 01:31 PM

to mpb319: you don't know jack about Matt Harpring. The guy is an animal, he could just as easily be in the NFL as the NBA. His work ethic is insane, the guy does free standing squats with heavy weight (and if you know anything about weightlifting, you know that is not an easy workout). Not to mention he's the opposite of a BWS. Imagine a stronger, faster, more offensively skilled Eddie Najera and that describes Harpring. Jeez, the guy started 81 games for the Sixers last season. His skin color means nothing, he would be a perfect fit here at the 3 (better than Lewis) IMO.

mpb319 · 08-05-2002, 01:42 PM

I do know some things about Matt Harpring. I lived in Central Florida when he was a rookie with the Orlando Magic....I agree he was a hustling Eddie Najera type. I'm not saying he isn't a decent player...but whether anyone wants to admit it or not...we should not sign him...4 white starters? Lets be serious. There are teams in the NBA who don't have 4 white guys out of 15 and they call us out when we play them..."just a bunch of soft white guys"...sound familiar? If we cannot get Lewis....or Marshall....I say pick up Russell.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-05-2002, 01:46 PM

<< I do know some things about Matt Harpring. I lived in Central Florida when he was a rookie with the Orlando Magic....I agree he was a hustling Eddie Najera type. I'm not saying he isn't a decent player...but whether anyone wants to admit it or not...we should not sign him...4 white starters? Lets be serious. There are teams in the NBA who don't have 4 white guys out of 15 and they call us out when we play them..."just a bunch of soft white guys"...sound familiar? If we cannot get Lewis....or Marshall....I say pick up Russell. >>

I agree in a sense lol. Its kinda making u sound like a racist ina bit but im sure ur not trying to sound like that. I dont liek ti either when teams aroudn the NBA call us soft white guys but Harpring is a tough ass tho. The reason why I dont want Harpring is because of the same reason people said dont sign Darvin Ham and Buck. WE have os many guys like Harpring on here. I go after Lewis first then Marshall but after that I go after Harpring then Russell.

Drbio · 08-05-2002, 01:47 PM

Skin color has jack shit to do with ability. Period. I get so sick of people who pull this crap.

Nellie · 08-05-2002, 01:56 PM

OK, lets get back to the subject here:

Marshall does fit well here cause he can play the 3 or the 4. He does not provide the athleticism Lewis would but he does have a post-up game, decent defender/rebounder, and has good range for a big man. In fact, he is the closest thing we can get to addressing our current needs with the exception. I wouldn't be surprised if Nellie/Cuban have secretly been targeting him all along, they have been unusualy quiet about him for a guy in the top 5 of the free agent class.

pepperfletch · 08-05-2002, 02:01 PM

Hey I have an idea for the sign and trade with Utah, Marshall for Bradley. The salaries could be close and we get a good small forward, they get a good resident of Salt Lake City, HA HA HA

Rod1975 · 08-05-2002, 02:01 PM

mpb: You are a racist, nuff said. And so are all the players that call us soft white guys.
This team of "soft white guys" was one of the elite teams in the NBA last year.
And I did'nt say he was an Eddie Najera "type", I said he was stronger, faster and more offensively skilled than Najera.
White people can play this game too, we have been since the game was invented and we will continue to do so.....I'm so sick of the sterotypes.....The champions of the Hoop-it-up street ball tournament have been a team of 4 white guys for the last 2 or 3 years. You know why? Because they are just plain better than everyone else. I have been amazed at the kind of players that TEAM has beaten. It's a thing of beauty really.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, black players call out the Mavs because they are scared to death of them. They are afraid the black race will lose it's stranglehold as the "superior" race in basketball. The last thing they want to see is a team full of smart, tough, skilled white boys hoisting the Pete O'Brien.

Racism sucks.

mpb319 · 08-05-2002, 02:01 PM

I'm not a racist...in fact I'm a white guy myself. That being said I stand by what I've already said....we will be known as YOUR DALLAS WHITE BOYS! Dirk,Steve,Raef,Esch,Bradley...and Harpring...Plus we have Secularac and want Oggy add Wang and Eddie and that leaves Finley,Griffin,Abdul-Wahad,Nick And Avery. 8-2-5...15 players and over half white(sure 3 would be Euros but that isn't a difference).
This is not an Athletic team....we will get killed on the boards and the Defense will be as bad as before....oh we might score an extra basket or two....as long as our jumpers are falling because we won't have ANY inside game.

We need athleticism and size....6-7 235 is not the answer.
If we could land 6-10 215 and 23 y/o then we are 100% better off.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-05-2002, 02:12 PM

<< I've said it before, and I'll say it again, black players call out the Mavs because they are scared to death of them. They are afraid the black race will lose it's stranglehold as the "superior" race in basketball. The last thing they want to see is a team full of smart, tough, skilled white boys hoisting the Pete O'Brien.

Racism sucks. >>

I think this is what truly sucks. Me being black reading this makes me think oh okay this guy is a racist but I know ur not and no one on this board is a racist so lets get that out of our head. To call someone a racist for making a comment about race makes u a hypocrite because u did the same exact thing. Your assuming that Black guys are afraid to have white players be superior over the race in basketball just like ur assuming Mp was black.

Lets all be honest here Lewis is a better player than Harpring and if u cant admit that then atleast u can admit he will be a better player in the long run and is only 23 years old. Now I dont think thats racist at all. Marshall like soemone sadi does fit the need of the Mavs more than Harpring because in my eyes NAjera is a clone to Harping. They bring basically the saem thing to the table.

Do we need another Najera here? NO. 1. Lewis 2.Marshall 3. Harpring 4. Any other player Mavs have in mind for the exception. We do have alot of white guys on this team but those white guys can play other than the exception of Esch and Bradely.

Rod1975 · 08-05-2002, 02:14 PM

<< This is not an Athletic team >>

so, by that rationale, because we have 3 players that are'nt athletic (Esch,Bradley,Wang<<who I hope doe'snt comeback) that makes the Mavs a non-athletic team? In that case you just called 90% of the league's teams non-athletic teams.

As far as the Lewis-Harpring debate goes: Lewis is'nt the defender Harpring is, and we don't need another scorer. Oh, and Harpring won't cost as much, so it's less of a gamble.

Rod1975 · 08-05-2002, 02:23 PM

OK then Filthy, you tell me why the Mavs players get called soft by players around the league.....if it's not about race what is it about?

And another question: what does a white player have to do to get the "soft" label removed?

And, you never hear of a black player being called "soft" please explain that to me also.

aexchange · 08-05-2002, 02:30 PM

the mavs are called soft because they cant stop anybody on D.

i dont think it has as much to do with race as it has to do with the fact their defense at times is absolutely attrocious, and instead of bearing down and trying to shut ppl down on D, they try to outscore their opponents. they also rely strictly on an outside game on O, and dont have any solid post players. this is why they are called soft.

sacto has a ton of white players as well, but they can actually guard. ppl call david robinson soft, and hes as black as they come. lets not make mountains out of mole hills.

kg_veteran · 08-05-2002, 02:34 PM

If we have to choose between Harpring and Donyell Marshall, the choice is clear -- Donyell Marshall.

Marshall's a good rebounder, nice post scorer, pretty good post defender, and an athletic big body. Marshall would fit well as either the 5th starter or as the first big man off the bench. In the absence of other additions, I would actually prefer the following:

Bradley (25 min)
Raef (30 min) - Marshall (30 min)
Nowitzki (35 min) - Najera (15 min)
Finley (35 min) - Griffin (15 min)
Nash (30 min) - Van Exel (25 min)

mpb319 · 08-05-2002, 02:36 PM

It is all about perception...but if you look at it there is fire where that smoke is. The Mavs are SOFT...as a team we give up layups...we can be and frequently are intimidated...we can be pushed around and abused and it will take us completely out of our game. The closest thing we have to an enforcer is Eschmeyer and he just isn't athletic enough to be very good at it. When Juwan Howard is your toughest player(and he was the only one who would hit you hard on a layup)...you are a SOFT team.

The Mavs are an elite team....as long as thier jumpers are falling.

We have to have someone who will instill some real toughness...this isn't about a Lewis vs Harpring thing....I just don't see anyone we can get to do that with a roster like we have...so this is why I would prefer Lewis or Marshall and even Russell....Lewis because of youth and length...Marshall because of post up ability and rebounding....Russell because of defensive ability and toughness.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-05-2002, 02:36 PM

<< the mavs are called soft because they cant stop anybody on D.

i dont think it has as much to do with race as it has to do with the fact their defense at times is absolutely attrocious, and instead of bearing down and trying to shut ppl down on D, they try to outscore their opponents. they also rely strictly on an outside game on O, and dont have any solid post players. this is why they are called soft.

sacto has a ton of white players as well, but they can actually guard. ppl call david robinson soft, and hes as black as they come. lets not make mountains out of mole hills. >>

Great post Aexhange. U took the words out of my mouth. People are trying to make nothing into somethign HUGE. I dont know where uf rom but down here I hear Duncan get called soft so often its ridiculous. Duncan is one of the best players in the game. What does a white player have to do get the soft out of his name? Just come in here and dunk on someone or do a viscious dunk one game. Thats all it will take and then that name will go away. I dotn hear nobody callin Dirk soft because everybody know what Dirk is about. Stop trying to make nothing into something because it maeks u look stupid.

Rhylan · 08-05-2002, 02:39 PM

I don't care how many white guys or black guys or whatever we have, as long as we get the best player that's a good fit. Harpring is WAY better than Russell, and a WAY better fit, and I don't care if the entire league thinks we're soft or not. We're still gonna win at least 55 games.

I might take Harpring over Marshall, I might not. Depends on what Marshall thinks his role should be. Just because Harpring is one tough summabitch. But I agree with Marshall being more versatile. But he's also older and had injury problems last year.

So we've got some white guys. So what? We've got two of the best three white guys in the world with Dirk and Steve. Tell me, doesn't anyone remember the Celtics with Bird, McHale and Ainge?

Rod1975 · 08-05-2002, 02:49 PM

<< I dotn hear nobody callin Dirk soft because everybody know what Dirk is about. Stop trying to make nothing into something because it maeks u look stupid. >>

No, poor grammar and spelling makes you look stupid.

Look, I play ball 4 times a week, at lots of different places. And without a doubt, the racist black players favorite knock on white players is calling them "soft" or "slow".
But after they get beat, they usually stop talking trash. So I understand it's mostly trash talk, but when paired with the connotation of race, that's when I have a problem with it.

mpb319 · 08-05-2002, 02:50 PM

Yes I remember the Celtics....McHale did'nt start for several years and Ainge was a defensive liability. Bird was all-world. The best white player since Rick Barry.

I'm not saying that the player we need is or isn't white...I just want this team to get more athletic. It seems we have in the last 2 years given away almost all of our atletic players in the trades...Courtney Alexander and Etan Thomas...then Donnell Harvey and we have gotten Raef and Nick in return...loosing Booth to Seattle(even though he was hurt last year)really impacted our D...Booth is much better than Eschmeyer now and will be much much better within a year or two...barring more injury problems.

MavKikiNYC · 08-05-2002, 02:54 PM

John Stockton.

Soft.

mpb319 · 08-05-2002, 02:56 PM

Thats cool...I play ball too. I am only half of the slow/soft equation. Being built like a defensive lineman makes me SLOW...which I am....SOFT...I am not. Exactly the opposite truth be told. However it is not my livelyhood and I am a bit of an idiot when it comes to winning so I play hard...but thats just me...guys I play with only go down the lane ONCE....then they shoot pull up Js. That is the kind of toughness the Mavs players lack...maybe Oakley would play with us and teach some toughness.

Rhylan · 08-05-2002, 02:59 PM

But mpb, the '86 Celtics (with McHale starting) was one of the best teams in NBA history. So Ainge was a defensive liability.. a lot of people will say Bird was, too. Bird's smarts allowed him to make steals and stuff that other players couldn't make, but he was not a great man-on defender.

The point is that you want the best players you can get to fit the mold of your team, it doesn't matter what color they were.

To think that you are pining over the loss of Alexander, who is now on his third team, and Thomas and Harvey, who redefined the word raw, is just absurd. Those trades made this team better. Athleticism is not everything. Yes, we could stand one guy with major hops. But you don't pass up a good player like Harpring just because you're jonesin' for some high flyer.

And you DID say the player we needed wasn't white. You whined about having 4 white starters. You even said that you'd take Russell over Harpring -- which flies directly in the face of wanting to get more athletic. Russell is not the athlete Harpring is.

mpb319 · 08-05-2002, 03:08 PM

You don't have to be soft if you are white...but you have to be extra tough to be white and beat the prevailing stereotype of softness.

John Stockton...very good case in point. Toughest dirtiest little SOB in the league. Bill Laimbeer...dirty tough mean. Larry Bird...trash talking put it in your eye player. Kevin McHale...all elbows and knees..never backed down.

Dirk showed some signs of getting tougher last season and hopefully will get even tougher. Raef...man you have to give it to him...black eye from Shaq...that awful scratch in the playoffs...still needs to be tougher. Bradley I think tries...but fails misserably...really misserably. Esch might have the ability...Nellie needs to put him out there and see. Nash needs to get stronger and learn more of the Stockton tricks.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-05-2002, 03:12 PM

<<

<< I dotn hear nobody callin Dirk soft because everybody know what Dirk is about. Stop trying to make nothing into something because it maeks u look stupid. >>

No, poor grammar and spelling makes you look stupid.

Look, I play ball 4 times a week, at lots of different places. And without a doubt, the racist black players favorite knock on white players is calling them "soft" or "slow".
But after they get beat, they usually stop talking trash. So I understand it's mostly trash talk, but when paired with the connotation of race, that's when I have a problem with it. >>

Im sorry Mrs.Rod1975 I forgot this was English Class and i'm getting graded on my grammer. UR to sensitive everybody knows that its trash talk. Ever since when has this thread become the problems that Rod1075 from MAvs FA and/or Small Foward Acquisitions. Do u want every black player in the NBA to apologize for u for being so sensitive? Honestly I think that whole story of Nick saying someone said that Mavs are a bunch of soft white players was somethign Nick made up to get the team more motivated. I never heard any other Mav say this not even Tim Hardaway.

mpb319 · 08-05-2002, 03:21 PM

I have to disagree on the Harpring is a better athlete than Russell bit...but hey it is only my opinion.

miles berg · 08-05-2002, 03:30 PM

I want nothing to do with Matt Harpring or Byron Russell.

Lewis 1st, Marshall 2nd, more minutes for Najera 3rd.

Nellie · 08-05-2002, 03:31 PM

<< You don't have to be soft if you are white...but you have to be extra tough to be white and beat the prevailing stereotype of softness.

John Stockton...very good case in point. Toughest dirtiest little SOB in the league >>

AKA "The Pasty Gangster"

(Notice I put that in quotes for the racism sensitive out there [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img])

dude1394 · 08-05-2002, 07:36 PM

<< To think that you are pining over the loss of Alexander, who is now on his third team, and Thomas and Harvey, who redefined the word raw, is just absurd. Those trades made this team better. Athleticism is not everything. Yes, we could stand one guy with major hops. But you don't pass up a good player like Harpring just because you're jonesin' for some high flyer.

>>

You are right on with this. I'm amazed that so many folks whine about harvey and alexander. They were chaff for the mavs and getting raef/nick/avery more than makes up for losing HARVEY!! He may someday be some sort of monster, but he wasn't going to help us maybe never.

jacktruth · 08-06-2002, 11:49 AM

I remember several years ago when Jason Kidd was the only white guy on the team.

It was a lottery year.

So what does whiteness have to do with it?

David · 08-06-2002, 05:32 PM

<>

Kidd's father is black and his mother is white.

aexchange · 08-06-2002, 05:34 PM

<< loosing Booth to Seattle(even though he was hurt last year)really impacted our D...Booth is much better than Eschmeyer now and will be much much better within a year or two...barring more injury problems. >>

im sorry but however you want to slice it, booth is NOT athletic. he isnt even that fast. booth is an OK player and a nice backup to have. he should not be starting on a team like the mavs.

MavKikiNYC · 08-06-2002, 05:38 PM

Not a great athlete, but he was mobile both horizontally and vertically--definitely a cut above Esch. I think you're underrating him, Aex.

But if Mavs can sign Lewis, we'll call it even with Seattle.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-06-2002, 07:21 PM

<<

<< loosing Booth to Seattle(even though he was hurt last year)really impacted our D...Booth is much better than Eschmeyer now and will be much much better within a year or two...barring more injury problems. >>

im sorry but however you want to slice it, booth is NOT athletic. he isnt even that fast. booth is an OK player and a nice backup to have. he should not be starting on a team like the mavs. >>

What do u mean he shouldnt start on a team like Mavs ? lol He is an upgrade over Esch and Bradely IMO. Now if ur suggesting Booth shouldnt start over Raef than thats a differetn story but I think we all can agree that Raef isnt a center he is a power foward with some center abilitys. I would easily welcome Booth back here to start over Esch and Bradely.

dude1394 · 08-06-2002, 07:32 PM

Agreed... Unless Esch shows us something this year, we will see the difference between he and booth. Booth seemed to be a much better center than esch or bradley. Also seemed to have some meanness. If Esch would just get some thuggery about him, he could really help us.