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07-12-2006, 06:24 PM
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Spurs sign Vaughn, extend offers to Elson and Butler
Vaughn's a decent signing for 3rd pg and for the vet minimum. I can't believe they'll go with Beno as 2nd backup. Not because he doesn't have potential but because Pop has yet to trust him the last couple years. Looking at the Spurs board, Javtokas has signed with a team in Greece. (correction) There guessing that they've split the MLE between the 2 centers.
Spurs sign point guard Jacque Vaughn, extend offers to centers Elson and Butler Web Posted: 07/12/2006 03:06 PM CDT By Johnny Ludden Express-News Staff Writer The Spurs moved quickly when the NBA’s free-agent signing period began Wednesday, signing point guard Jacque Vaughn and extending offer sheets to centers Francisco Elson and Jackie Butler. Elson and Butler are restricted free agents, so Denver and New York have seven days to match the offers. The Knicks have already indicated they want to keep Butler. The Spurs extended offers to both Elson and Butler in part because they were unable to reach agreement with former second-round pick Robertas Javtokas. Javtokas is preparing to play in Greece, but the Spurs haven’t given up hope they will be able to resume negotiations with him, if needed. Vaughn, who signed a one-year contract for the league minimum, will compete with Beno Udrih for the backup point-guard job.
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Last edited by MavsFanFinley; 07-12-2006 at 06:48 PM. |
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07-12-2006, 07:30 PM
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#2 |
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Well this is a ver "meh" move.
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07-12-2006, 08:48 PM
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#3 |
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Diamond Member
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Boy, the big moves by the sp*rs just never seem to stop coming. Maybe they'll tender an offer to Marcus Fizer, and try to entice Zan Tabak out of retirement next, in their great drive to reload for the '07 playoff run...
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What has the sheep to bargain with the wolf? |
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07-12-2006, 08:52 PM
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I would love to make fun of the spurs but apparently (im holding out hope the salary is a typo) we just made a HORRIBLE(i cant overstate that word) signing so i have no room to laugh. I am deeply saddened by the buckner signing.
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http://cowboys.gearupforsports.com/blog/ |
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07-12-2006, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
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 "He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of." "For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man "We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people." |
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07-12-2006, 11:38 PM
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Truth be told I don't think either the Spurs or the Mavs have done much to get excited about. |
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07-13-2006, 01:11 AM
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
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eh.
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 ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?" |
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07-13-2006, 01:16 AM
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Robot Hell, NJ
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Quote:
And while the Mavs have to worry about Stackhouse getting a year older, the Spurs have to worry about Finley, Horry, Barry and Bowen. Maybe Butler will suprise people the way Diop did but I think the Knicks will match.
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07-13-2006, 01:35 AM
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Diamond Member
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Posts: 7,788
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Quote:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/ *Elson's teammates all called him Geico because he never played unless his fellow Denver big-man teammates were hurt. As George Karl just said, "He hated to be called an insurance policy, but he was"...
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What has the sheep to bargain with the wolf? Last edited by Evilmav2; 07-13-2006 at 01:36 AM. |
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07-13-2006, 01:45 AM
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Will Elson help them at all? Duncan will start at center with Elson at backup right?
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"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of." "For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man "We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people." |
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07-13-2006, 01:47 AM
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Quote:
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"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of." "For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man "We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people." |
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07-13-2006, 01:57 AM
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hippie Hollow
Posts: 3,128
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 2006: The longest, hottest, most excruciating Bexar Co. summer that ever was...
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Back up in your ass with the resurrection. |
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07-13-2006, 01:58 AM
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
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"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of." "For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man "We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people." |
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07-13-2006, 07:47 AM
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Member
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Posts: 726
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Quote:
No telling on what the Knicks will do with Butler. It is the Knicks so trying to apply logic to the situation is a fruitless endeavor. Instead I just flipped a coin and it came up tails so Butler will be a Spur next year. |
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07-13-2006, 07:49 AM
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07-13-2006, 07:53 AM
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Golden Member
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But is Horry going to be the only other option at PF besides Duncan? Because he seems in serious decline.
Edit: Or is Matt Bonner still around? He played some pretty good minutes for the Raptors. Last edited by Stranger; 07-13-2006 at 07:55 AM. |
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07-14-2006, 02:11 PM
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Isiah now thinking Butler doesn't do it
BY FRANK ISOLA DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER Isiah Thomas is having second thoughts on matching the three-year, $7 million offer sheet Jackie Butler received from the San Antonio Spurs. According to sources, Thomas is surprised that the center, who is entering his second season, managed to secure a contract that dwarfs the $900,000 the Knicks offered him. The same source said there is a "50-50 chance" that Butler won't return. Thomas has until Wednesday to match the offer. The Knicks already have 14 players under contract, and Thomas is finding it hard to justify signing Butler for $7 million when he could be the team's third-string center behind Eddy Curry and Jerome James. Thomas, however, has a soft spot for the 6-10 Butler, whom he signed out of the CBA two years ago on the advice of former scout Del Demps, who now works for the Spurs. There is a good chance that former Knicks coach Larry Brown gave his good friend, San Antonio head coach Gregg Popovich, a thorough scouting report on Butler. The Knicks have had strange dealings with the Spurs in recent years. Three years ago, Thomas agreed to send Kurt Thomas to San Antonio for Malik Rose only to rescind the offer at the last minute. The following season, Thomas sent Nazr Mohammed to the Spurs for Rose, and Mohammed helped San Antonio win the title. Now, Butler could be replacing Mohammed, who is now a Piston. |
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07-18-2006, 07:21 PM
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,509
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Isiah has interest in Jeffries
BY FRANK ISOLA DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER Isiah Thomas says he is not actively pursing deals for free agents, but behind the scenes the Knicks' president and coach continues to search for ways to bolster his roster. One player who continues to draw interest from the Knicks is Washington forward Jared Jeffries, a restricted free agent. According to sources, the Knicks have had conversations with Jeffries' agent, Andy Miller, in recent days as negotiations between Jeffries and the Wizards have stalled. Jeffries is considering accepting Washington's one-year qualifying offer for approximately $3 million, which would make him an unrestricted free agent next summer. Miller, who also represents free agent forward Al Harrington, did not return phone calls yesterday. The Knicks can offer Jeffries their mid-level exception, starting at approximately $5.2 million. The Knicks are reluctant to add salary, but the 6-11 Jeffries, who can play four positions, would give the team a versatile player who is regarded as a strong defender. The 24-year-old Jeffries averaged 6.4 points and 4.9 rebounds in 77 games last season The Knicks' interest in Jeffries suggests that Thomas will not match the three-year, $7 million offer Jackie Butler received from the San Antonio Spurs. The Knicks have until tomorrow to decide on Butler's fate. By allowing Butler to leave, the Knicks would have one roster spot available. Washington would have the option to match any offer made to Jeffries. A sign-and-trade scenario is unlikely because of salary cap restrictions. Jeffries is best suited to play small forward, a position that is currently filled by Jalen Rose, Quentin Richardson and first-round pick Renaldo Balkman. David Lee is another option for small forward. Jeffries, however, can play both forward positions as well as center and has even played big guard for Washington. Last edited by MavKikiNYC; 07-18-2006 at 07:22 PM. |
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07-18-2006, 09:51 PM
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Guru
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Location: California
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That would be a steal for the Spurs if NY doesn't match.
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07-18-2006, 11:36 PM
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Quote:
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"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of." "For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man "We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people." |
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07-19-2006, 09:49 AM
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: California
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Quote:
Butler is only 21yrs old too.
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07-19-2006, 11:06 AM
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Butler doesn't make me jump for joy and proclaim us as the team to beat, but it would be a very solid signing. |
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07-19-2006, 11:31 AM
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Diamond Member
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Posts: 8,509
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Quote:
I think you've pegged it--Butler is a value signing, not an impact signing. |
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07-19-2006, 02:55 PM
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#24 |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 726
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Knicks decline to match Spurs' offer to Butler
Web Posted: 07/19/2006 01:55 PM CDT Express-News SALT LAKE CITY – The New York Knicks have decided not to match the Spurs’ three-year, $7 million offer to restricted free agent Jackie Butler, a Knicks’ spokesman said Wednesday. advertisement The Spurs have yet to officially hear from the Knicks or the NBA. The Spurs also have not heard from the Denver Nuggets, who have until Thursday to match an offer for restricted free agent Francisco Elson. Both Butler and Elson are centers. http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/s...N.203c608.html |
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07-19-2006, 03:40 PM
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Citadel
Posts: 4,227
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Quote:
But they save money, therefor, it's a brilliant move by the Spurs. But let Cuban do crap like that, and he gets called cheap and it's doom and gloom.
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The wind rises electric. She's soft and warm and almost weightless. Her perfume is sweet promise that brings tears to my eyes. I tell her that everything will be all right; that I'll save her from whatever she's scared and take her far far away. I tell her that I love her. The silencer makes a whisper of the gunshot. I hold her close until she's gone. I'll never know what she was running from. I'll cash her check in the morning. ~The Salesman |
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07-19-2006, 04:09 PM
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Member
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07-19-2006, 04:20 PM
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#27 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 40,924
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Jackie Vaugh? The Spurs would have done better with Jackie Christie.
Last edited by Drbio; 07-19-2006 at 04:22 PM. |
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07-19-2006, 10:38 PM
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#28 | |
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Citadel
Posts: 4,227
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Quote:
How about the Finley and Daniels situations?
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The wind rises electric. She's soft and warm and almost weightless. Her perfume is sweet promise that brings tears to my eyes. I tell her that everything will be all right; that I'll save her from whatever she's scared and take her far far away. I tell her that I love her. The silencer makes a whisper of the gunshot. I hold her close until she's gone. I'll never know what she was running from. I'll cash her check in the morning. ~The Salesman |
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07-20-2006, 09:45 AM
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 726
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I'm just making the observation that this sense of fiscal consciousness is new to Mark Cuban and Mav fans used to seeing the "whatever it takes, cost is no issue" approach don't appear to be liking it too much. |
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07-20-2006, 11:34 AM
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#30 | |
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Citadel
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Quote:
I understand you DelNegro. It just annoys the heck out of me the tone of this board. It seems like for the last 2 offseasons, everything Cuban does seems to be wrong. But somehow, everything Houston and San Antonio does seems to be good. And the double standard of cuban cost cutting compared to other teams. I mean, besides the Antoine Walker trade, Cuban hasn't done anything bad as far as personnel goes to this organization.
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The wind rises electric. She's soft and warm and almost weightless. Her perfume is sweet promise that brings tears to my eyes. I tell her that everything will be all right; that I'll save her from whatever she's scared and take her far far away. I tell her that I love her. The silencer makes a whisper of the gunshot. I hold her close until she's gone. I'll never know what she was running from. I'll cash her check in the morning. ~The Salesman |
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07-20-2006, 12:09 PM
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#31 | |
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hippie Hollow
Posts: 3,128
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Quote:
However the spurs and houston haven't wowed me with their moves for going on 2 years now. Anybody who points to their transactions as a cause for alarm has to be nuts. Rafer Alston, NVE - no sane person would think the mavs are making worse moves than their little brothers to the south. The truth remains clear. Dallas is younger, deeper, and more talented than both the rockettes and the spurts. And while San Ant_ni_ still has an edge in experience, that didn't seem to help them much in a game seven on their homecourt.
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Back up in your ass with the resurrection. |
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07-20-2006, 12:42 PM
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Diamond Member
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Posts: 8,509
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Last edited by MavKikiNYC; 07-20-2006 at 12:42 PM. |
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07-20-2006, 02:36 PM
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#33 | |
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Member
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Posts: 534
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Quote:
blah, blah, blah..Like Pop said after the series. He laughed at the notion that Dallas was supposed to be more athletic than the Spurs were.. He asked how much more athletic do we need to get 1 point , 2 points?.. And of course a team ALWAYS progresses from their previous season.. oh wait they don't automatically get better... The younger , deeper mavs are still a jump shooting team that was exposed in the Finals.. Pop stubborness caused the Spurs the series when he refused to play any zone defense... oh and you better hope that the Mavs can replicate the 85% shooting in 1st qtr and 68% for the first half in game 7.. I know, I know it's becuase they are younger and deeper.. Let's review the history of each franchise's ability to rebuild to compete for a championship............ let's see the Spurs have twice..and the mavs.... help me out here.. hey cap city how was that parade..? |
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07-20-2006, 03:03 PM
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Guru
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While I'm not as threatened by the Spurs as years past I'm not going to dismiss them simply because they haven't gotten younger or more athletic (Butler being the exception). It's not like Dallas thumped them in convincing manner. And you have to question Pop's refusal to not play the centers at all. I still believe as long as Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker are healthy they're a threat still.
The latest reports have Denver leaning towards matching the offer for Elson and I guess we'll know by the end of the day. If true, it will be interesting to see who the Spurs target next. Until the center situation is sovled will we see what they do with Oberto, Barry, Williams, and Udrih. They solved the 3rd pg with the signing of Vaughn (although I think he beats out Udrih if he's still in uniform at the start of the season). No one seems to be biting on Barry or Oberto. I still think Williams has value with that expiring contract but if they pair him with the other guys then they can't make the trade until August 21st. Next month might be more telling of what the Spurs are doing or not instead of this day. The lineup as it stands now: ??/Butler/Oberto Duncan/Bonner/Horry Bowen/Finley/Williams Ginobli/Barry Parker/Vaughn/Udrih
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Last edited by MavsFanFinley; 07-20-2006 at 03:06 PM. |
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07-20-2006, 03:31 PM
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Inactive.
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07-20-2006, 05:06 PM
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#36 | |
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Guru
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"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’ |
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07-21-2006, 06:58 AM
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#37 |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 534
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Info on Jackie Butler
Butler Splits for San Antonio, And the Knicks Look Stupid
By JOHN HOLLINGER July 21, 2006 And now, my friends, I present you with the ultimate irony. The Knicks, who for years have spent like drunken sailors to acquire even the most marginal prospects, are now in such a dire financial situation that they can't afford to keep a player who is both inexpensive and productive. Yesterday, news leaked that the Knicks would not match San Antonio's three-year, $7 million offer sheet for center Jackie Butler. Reasoning that it was too much to pay for a third-string center, especially since the cost would double to $14 million after factoring in the luxury tax implications, New York decided to let the 6-foot-10-inch, 260-pounder head for Texas. The Knicks are giving the outward impression of finally having had a moment of clarity and making a rational, grownup decision about how to spend their money. In reality, this was another enormous personnel blunder that, much like the Eddy Curry trade a year ago, could end up haunting the team for years. Butler went undrafted and was nominally the Knicks' third-string center last season, which has prevented most observers from understanding just how good he is.When Larry Brown called him the Knicks' best center last season, a lot of people wondered if the coach had finally gone off the deep end. In reality, this may be the only sane thing Brown said or did all season. Look at the numbers. Last season, the 20-year-old Butler — the Knicks' youngest player — shot 54.4% from the floor and had the team's second-best perminute rebound rate (David Lee was first).His 15.4 points per 40 minutes were well above average for a center, and notable in light of the high percentage he shot. Overall, his Player Efficiency Rating (my per-minute rating of a player's statistical production) of 14.67 was near the league average of 15.0 and ranked 22nd among the 62 centers who played at least 500 minutes last season. That's not a fluke, either, based on what he did a year before in the CBA. Yes, it was the CBA, but Butler didn't just play well — he dominated.At 19, he was easily the best player in that league, which was why since-departed scout Dell Demps recommended him to the Knicks in the first place. (Incidentally, Demps is now the Spurs' personnel director. For all the Larry-told-his-friend-Gregg-Popovich-to-sign-Butler theories floating around, this connection seems a far more obvious one.) Butler's current production alone would make him worth much more than the pittance for which San Antonio stole him.In a league where mediocre centers like Sam Dalembert and Nene (and, um, Eddy Curry) are pulling down $60 million deals, Butler would be worth at least a team's midlevel exception — just as other middling centers like Nazr Mohammed and Joel Pryzbilla received in recent days. The big story, however, isn't what Butler is doing now, it's what he's likely to do in the future. Big men who demonstrate a knack for scoring at a young age almost never fail, and when they do it's usually due to such factors as conditioning or injuries. To see what I mean, let me introduce you to a tool I've developed that ranks players according to how similar they are.I use a number of criterion — height, age, and several barometers of statistical performance. According to this method, the five most similar players to Jackie Butler at the same age were Shawn Kemp, Eddy Curry, Jermaine O'Neal, Carlos Boozer, and Chris Webber. Of that group, only Curry has failed to become a star, and he's been held back only by a lack of conditioning and a bad heart. So basically, the worst-case scenario is that Butler would become as good as the Knicks' current center — and cost about a fifth as much. Yet the Knicks wouldn't agree to pay him $7 million over three years, only slightly more than they'll be paying firstround mystery man Renaldo Balkman. That isn't prudence folks — it's insanity. Amusingly, the Knicks reportedly were shocked that Butler received such a "big" offer from San Antonio. That proves to me that the Knicks genuinely had no idea what they had in the youngster, because I was surprised he got such a small offer. I figured Butler would get close to the mid-level exception and would be limited to that only because of his restricted free agent status. Even at that price, the Knicks would have ended up with a rare bargain amid a sea of salary excess. Instead, they'll spend close to $100 million on the contracts of two players — Curry and Jerome James — who will probably be less effective than Butler this year, and almost certainly will be three years from now. Curry at least has ability on his side, but he remains a question mark. James can't play at all, of course, and it's troubling that New York's brass actually had Butler behind him on the team's depth chart. Butler, meanwhile, is likely to take another step forward in his development as a high quality low-post scorer. Yes, his conditioning is a concern, and he'll probably never make the All-Defense team, but as a 20-year-old he sure looked like the new and improved version of Curry — armed with similar size and skill but a much better motor. His departure leaves one more gaping wound for whomever succeeds Isiah Thomas to heal. When the Knicks announced Isiah would be taking over as coach, I hoped that at the very least, the new responsibilities would distract him from inflicting further ruin upon the franchise as general manager. No such luck. For San Antonio, it's just one more personnel coup. Yet again, the Spurs have nabbed a good young player for peanuts while other league executives have their fingers up their noses. It's instructive to note that the Knicks and Spurs operate at opposite ends of the spending spectrum — yet the team that spends less continually outfoxes the guys with the deep pockets. That, in a nutshell, is why the Spurs will again win twice as many games as the Knicks while spending half as much money. |
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07-21-2006, 08:34 AM
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#38 |
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Member
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Good find. There have also been other articles floating around mentioning that Butler took less money to sign SA's offer sheet. Butler most likely won't make a huge impact next year, but the prospects for this guy down the road look pretty good.
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07-21-2006, 11:17 AM
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#39 |
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,629
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Is this a f'ing SA board? geez.
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07-21-2006, 12:42 PM
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#40 | |
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Quote:
Oh I'm sorry where do I post stuff about the NBA in general? |
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