Do You Want to Win it All?

[birdsanctuary]

Trade #1 Croshere to Portland for Darius Miles

Trade #2
Outgoing
Jerry Stackhouse, Devin Harris, Pavel Podkolzin, Darius Miles*, 2009 Future #1 Pick
Incoming: Allen Iverson

Successful Scenario
Due to Dallas and Philadelphia being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Philadelphia had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
*Miles works as a wash for Daniels or Croshere IND on Real GM

Trade #3
Dallas Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Erick Dampier, Josh Howard, Maurice Ager, Josh Powell

Incoming:Tayshaun Prince, Antonio McDyess

Successful Scenario
Due to Dallas and Detroit being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Detroit had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Mavs Roster
Iverson, DA
Terry
Prince, Griffin
Nowitzki, McDyess, KVH for bare min.
Diop, Benga

I think both Detroit and Philly do the deal. Both get young and fill holes in their roster. Both I believe would be very competitive again in the East. (Obviously the Mavs would have to go out and find some FA's to fill roster spots. I believe this would be relatively easy since these spots would be filled with smalls which are relatively abundant compared to bigs.)

[mkat]

i'll pass on it all.

why change all this stuff? you people are insane.

[birdsanctuary]

Trade youth for marketability, that's it plain and simple. The teams that win championships are the marketable teams or beat teams in which a player doesn't fit the NBA image. The Mavs need Iverson and AI needs the Mavs.

I'm talking about putting together a deal that wins the championship. Ala Miami's blockbuster last year that landed the role players they needed to complement the Superstars. We got a superstar in Dirk a borderline superstar in Terry, I say add AI and a defensive stalwart like Prince, and roll the dice...

It's either retool the team or improve at the coaching spot. I don't think the Mavs of 2007 can be that much better than 2006.

[ocelot_ark]

I hate the "depth" of the proposed roster. AI goes down and DA's supposed to be relied on? Yikes!

[mkat]

Originally Posted by birdsanctuary

Trade youth for marketability, that's it plain and simple. The teams that win championships are the marketable teams or beat teams in which a player doesn't fit the NBA image. The Mavs need Iverson and AI needs the Mavs.

I'm talking about putting together a deal that wins the championship. Ala Miami's blockbuster last year that landed the role players they needed to complement the Superstars. We got a superstar in Dirk a borderline superstar in Terry, I say add AI and a defensive stalwart like Prince, and roll the dice...

It's either retool the team or improve at the coaching spot. I don't think the Mavs of 2007 can be that much better than 2006.

the thing you don't realize is that Miami was a bad team. they got very lucky. The Mavs could fix the problems that happened last year with a little more mental toughness and a little more time with Avery's system. they weren't SUPPOSED to go to the Finals last year...they're essentially a "rebuilt" team again. give them 2 years and it'll be much different. the thing you're doing is overreacting because they lost.

[mkat]

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

I hate the "depth" of the proposed roster. AI goes down and DA's supposed to be relied on? Yikes!

that and if terry goes down we have Ager....too short of a list.

[fluid.forty.one]

noooooooooo

[nashtymavsfan13]

I would do trades 1 and 2, but trade 3 is terrible. The team really doesn't need to be changed this much though.

[dalmations202]

I am not sure that those trades "win it all".

Yes, Dallas becomes more marketable, but less ability. I am not sure they ever get to the finals with that team. Phoenix might run them out of the house, and Houston could cause them lots of issues with TMac healthy. SA is SA, and would be tight.

If they played Miami again in the finals, DWade still gets the touch and ghost fouls, and is more marketable than an older AI. Shaq far more marketable than anyone else on the Mavs.

I just don't see these trades making them both better, and more marketable, which is what I think it will take to win it all.

[Tokey41]

Trade #3 is ludacris, theres no way we give up that much for Prince and McDysse! Howard is about if not about to be as good as Prince, so we would be trading Damp, Ager, and Powell for what? Some geezer? Yeah right, no thanks. I say if we could get AI we should but lets keep the depth and not do anything crazy like that proposal.

And I think Portland would want more for Miles, could be wrong... but for Croshere I would love to get him... then trade him if we have hope for AI.

[Five-ofan]

Ugh. Ill pass. i actually am one of the few who likes ai and thinks he could fit here but good god man. You realize that overall you are trading,
Devin harris, josh howard, Erick Dampier, AC, Stack, ppod, Ager, powell and a first rounder for
Ai, Prince, and mcydess. Umm no.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Ugh. Ill pass. i actually am one of the few who likes ai and thinks he could fit here but good god man. You realize that overall you are trading,
Devin harris, josh howard, Erick Dampier, AC, Stack, ppod, Ager, powell and a first rounder for
Ai, Prince, and mcydess. Umm no.

Yeah, we'd have no depth, and basically be relying on three players and have a bunch of spares.

[Dirkenstien]

I like Iverson, but not any of the deals.

[Nemesis]

I see birdinsanity came in here to get a cult going. Come on man.. Shit, MightyAnnoying leaves and now we have to deal with your theories. Trust us all, AI is not "the answer" for the Mavericks.

[dude1394]

Not if I have to watch those players.

[birdsanctuary]

Originally Posted by Blab's Nemesis

I see birdinsanity came in here to get a cult going. Come on man.. Shit, MightyAnnoying leaves and now we have to deal with your theories. Trust us all, AI is not "the answer" for the Mavericks.

I'm not trying to expose my theories on the forum public, in fact I totally agree with you B-Nemesis, to a certain degree. The best solution for the Mavs is to keep cooking with the ingredients we have. There is a strong possibility that Howard and Harris will develop into top tier players. My only concern at this moment is whether or not they will develop into marketable players. Why is marketability important? It is crucial deep in the playoffs because marketable players get the most benefit from selective foul calling (Jordan, Wade, LeBron, Shaq). Hell, Shaq committs an offensive foul on every possession when he dislodges defenders. Why didn't Dirk get the level of foul calls Wade got? Wade's a more marketable commodity to the NBA.

I do believe AI gives any team a drastically increased level of marketability, but to get him the Mavs would assuredly have to give up one or both of potential superstars. If I were Cuban I'd hire a top flight marketing agency to market the Mavs, Howard, Dirk, Terry and Harris to America. I do believe enough money can create a "Tail Wags the Dog" phenomena. Just look at Paris Hilton, she's a perfect example.

[Tokey41]

Wanna tell me why you want to trade all those people for Prince and Mcdyess though, like I said we have our Prince style player and the backup PF isint worth like 4 players.

It doesnt even affect the Iverson deal which I still like, the only thing i'd hate to give up is Harris out of those players but obviously Iverson is worth it.

[birdsanctuary]

Acquiring Prince is not necessary, if the Mavs were to build around Dirk, Jho, and Terry things would be fine. Prince is more marketable than Josh Howard, however Josh has the upside to be much more marketable than Prince. I'd just like the Mavs to acquire a top 5 marketable player. I think AI at #3 is the only guy obtainable.

So forget trade #3, trade Croshere for Miles in order to acquire Iverson, pick up a FA small forward, and resign KVH for nothing to back up Dirk or try to get Songalia as the back up 4, and that's a nicely retooled team. Far more marketable, but I'd like to see another FA point guard, could the Mavs get Marcus Banks or Dickau back from Portland in trade #1?

Reproposal:

Trade:
Dallas trades: Croshere, Powell to Portland
Dallas Acquires from Portland: Darius Miles, Steve Blake

Dallas Trades: Harris, Stackhouse, Miles, Podkolzin, & Future #1 to Philadelphia
Dallas Acquires: Allen Iverson

Successful Scenario
Due to Portland, Dallas, and Philadelphia being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Portland, Dallas, and Philadelphia had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

This deal meets the requirements of what Philly wants, they want to improve their team, get expiring contract, replacement young PG, Former lottery #3 pick SF, and Fools Gold Podkolzin, not to mention another first rounder in some later draft. I think BK does this deal. The first deal makes some sense in that it unloads Powell and frees up the Mavs to sign Pops. Acquiring Iverson adds team marketablilty not to mention Steven A. on the bandwagon, but adds a high energy young PG in Blake instead of just relying on DA if Terry goes down... If that happened I could see a backcourt of AI-Buck, AI-Griff, or AI-Ager.


New Lineup
Iverson/Buckner/Ager
Terry/Blake/Armstrong
Howard/Griffin or FA/Marshall?
Nowitzki/KVH or Songalia/Pops
Diop/Damp/MBenga

[dude1394]

Let me get this straight. Your whole proposal here is built around the premise that the mavs don't have marketable enough players, so the refs screw them over on purpose.

So if dirk would just get out and promote himself instead of working harder on his basketball skills the mavs would have more of a chance to win a ring?

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So if dirk would just get out and promote himself instead of working harder on his basketball skills the mavs would have more of a chance to win a ring?

Yep. If Holger can put Dirk on a steady diet of BET and And-1 mixtape videos we'll have a chance.

Or maybe we can ship him off to a Colorado resort to up his street cred.

While I don't think Bird's theories are that far-fetched, if we're forced to go out and aquire black guys guys of questionable character simply to appeal to the sneaker buying/sprite drinking crowd, I'd rather almost win the title every year with our reserved euro superstar.

East Coast/West Coast is always, ALWAYS gonna market their guys over anybody from Texas. So why obtain AI? The philly media hype will stay with Igudola, not get exported to the heartland - where, (shriek!)... "they ride horses and wear cowboy hats."

F' marketability. I don't give two shits what some Yankee thinks about my basketball team. Especially if that Yankee is a NBA executive orchestrating the playoffs from his office chair on 5th ave.

[birdsanctuary]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Let me get this straight. Your whole proposal here is built around the premise that the mavs don't have marketable enough players, so the refs screw them over on purpose.

So if dirk would just get out and promote himself instead of working harder on his basketball skills the mavs would have more of a chance to win a ring?

Dude, the road would be substantially easier.

Still I believe there is no real hope for Dirk to be marketed to the American public. This is not something Dirk needs to do, it's something Marketing agencies need to do. There is some type of foreigner stigma attached to Dirk, which I don't really see, but it exists. The best example I can think of are the Nike commercial campaign of a few years ago which featured Tmac, Duncan, and KG. Dirk clearly is in this elite level but he is left out, I believe because he is German. Dirk is not heavily marketed by his shoe company in the USA, and its a real mystery.

The greater hope is for Jho and Devin to increase in marketability. Devin has real potential, he just needs to become the spokesman for a large well known company. It could be something as simple as a cell phone company or chewing gum. Something akin to OJ simpson and Avis rent a car, if you're old enough to remember.

I'd be careful Capitalcity in stereotyping marketability with ethnicity. I think Dirk could be just as marketable as AI or LeBron, if the advertisement campaign is done right and on a large scale. The issue is that those companies that employ Dirk don't market him as heavily as the other superstars. I think he does have some appeal issues to the groups that wear the shoes and drink the drinks, still I'd be shocked if this demographic is solely inner-city african americans. Tiger Woods appeals to all ethnic groups, Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Shaq, and LeBron too. I think Dirk appeals to an even broader market because he has the internation thing, so like Yao he should be very marketable internationally. I say focus on Devin and Josh. Call Pdiddy and get Josh a clothing line, get Devin hooked up with Cingular wireless, and go from there.

[Tokey41]

Devin and Josh really arent that marketable either, Dirk is clearly the best option. I think having his own clothing line would be awesome, I can see it. I want to see him in a badass commercial where he talks about stepping out of Birds shadow and unveiling his brand.

[Carolina Blue]

Marketability???

That has to be a joke, right?

[dude1394]

I'm sorry but this theory needs a tin-foil hat. Tim Duncan is NOT marketable, he's just not, nowhere, no-how, no-way. KG IS marketable and he's only been out of the first round once. T-Mac IS marketable and he's NEVER been out of the first round.

As far as dirk being marketed, he could easily be marketed but he just doesn't give a crap man. Dirk is top 5 NBA and he's a wonderful marketing story. But you have to want commercials, want the attention...He just doesn't want it. IMO..

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by birdsanctuary

I'd be careful Capitalcity in stereotyping marketability with ethnicity. I think Dirk could be just as marketable as AI or LeBron, if the advertisement campaign is done right and on a large scale. The issue is that those companies that employ Dirk don't market him as heavily as the other superstars. I think he does have some appeal issues to the groups that wear the shoes and drink the drinks, still I'd be shocked if this demographic is solely inner-city african americans. Tiger Woods appeals to all ethnic groups, Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Shaq, and LeBron too. I think Dirk appeals to an even broader market because he has the internation thing, so like Yao he should be very marketable internationally. I say focus on Devin and Josh. Call Pdiddy and get Josh a clothing line, get Devin hooked up with Cingular wireless, and go from there.

Who's feelings am I hurting? Is somebody in denial? They made a damned mass-marketed movie called "White Men Can't Jump". That was 1992 - I thought we (general populace) already know the score.

Why tippy-toe around... Dirk will always be a white man playing a (perceived by a vast majority of persons (generalization with validity) to be) black mans game. Does that mean that everybody who follows BBall or plays BBall or is the target audience of BBall player endorsed products are black or inner city? No. But I think advertisers have enough market research to know that investing in the two or three big names (Nash, Dirk, ??) isn't the wisest move.

The only reason Yao was picked up for endorsements is because the far east is an emerging and basically untapped market. Yao by himself can sell to 1/5th of the worlds population... and apple only picked him up to pair him with another freak of nature for their Ibooks. I would guess that apple didn't care or even expect people to know Yao as a basketball player - but simply as a very large man in their commercial about size. Dirk doesn't have an entire country following his every move. The dude isn't even as popular as Michael Schumacher or Boris Becker or a number of soccer stars in his own country. Hell, NuTella picked up Kobe in a time when they could've selected from 5+ euro stars.

As for Devin and Josh. Just because they're young and black and likeable doesn't mean anyone want's them to pitch merchandise. Why? Because they haven't been hyped by the east coast sports writers - which is a prerequisite to marketability.

What company would want to start from scratch with Devin when they could pick a young/black/likeable player from Chicago/LA/NYC/Miami whos already gotten free exposure and publicity by an overhyping, star-creating large market media types. Half the job of sellng is already done.

Bird I don't really feel neglected. I don't give a shit becuase I live in the country of texas - and my favorite player is well-known and respected here. Once you realize the rest of the country apparently didn't want to be sold on Aikman, Emmitt, or Mike - you can easily come to grips with the fact that nobody outside Texas wants to hear about/be marketed to by our superior athletes.

It's cause they are f'n jealous, and self involved. ESPN can blow me.

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm sorry but this theory needs a tin-foil hat. Tim Duncan is NOT marketable, he's just not, nowhere, no-how, no-way. KG IS marketable and he's only been out of the first round once. T-Mac IS marketable and he's NEVER been out of the first round.

As far as dirk being marketed, he could easily be marketed but he just doesn't give a crap man. Dirk is top 5 NBA and he's a wonderful marketing story. But you have to want commercials, want the attention...He just doesn't want it. IMO..

This speaks to my theory about Texas-made athletes.

Tim Duncan has regional H-E-B commercials and... Where as the legend of TMAC was created on the east coast and traveled to Houston.

KG is marketable because he's a Chi-town prep product.

Dirk is white (strike one) euro (strike two) and plays in texas (strike three). Ain't no way the east coast media is gonna help Dirk along the way. Which is yet another reson this year's playoff run was so 'incredible' according to national writers. Why? Because Dirk was written off before he ever got the chance to prove himself - unlike TMAC and KG, who were coronated before they ever stepped foot on the court.

Who do you think created "T-Mac" and "KG". Those guys were just Tracy and Kevin until some east coast choad decided they were too badass to have regular names.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by capitalcity

Bird I don't really feel neglected. I don't give a shit becuase I live in the country of texas - and my favorite player is well-known and respected here.

It's cause they are f'n jealous, and self involved. ESPN can blow me.

Damn straight!!

[birdsanctuary]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm sorry but this theory needs a tin-foil hat. Tim Duncan is NOT marketable, he's just not, nowhere, no-how, no-way. KG IS marketable and he's only been out of the first round once. T-Mac IS marketable and he's NEVER been out of the first round.

As far as dirk being marketed, he could easily be marketed but he just doesn't give a crap man. Dirk is top 5 NBA and he's a wonderful marketing story. But you have to want commercials, want the attention...He just doesn't want it. IMO..

This image is ironically called "big three" and I apologize its adidas. I agree featuring Duncan is a joke, Dirk has done far more and should be marketed appropriately. But Nike seems focused on LeBron. I respect your passion, all you guys, and the Finals hurt so much to all of us. I'm just trying to expose a hidden truth and offer ways to get over the hump; because this is all about winning a championship.

[dude1394]

Who's that guy on the right, John Salley?

[Tokey41]

Whats German for unstoppable? That should be Dirks clothing line name =)

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Who's that guy on the right, John Salley?

Could it be Billups?

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Whats German for unstoppable? That should be Dirks clothing line name =)

The free translation of it is: Unaufhaltsam

I doubt that brand name of clothles would catch on

[some-dude]

The guy on the right is Kevin Garnett......

[dude1394]

Pretty tough ad when only one of three guys is in the playoffs. And the best one gets knocked out in the second round.

[some-dude]

Originally Posted by birdsanctuary

This image is ironically called "big three" and I apologize its adidas. I agree featuring Duncan is a joke, Dirk has done far more and should be marketed appropriately. But Nike seems focused on LeBron. I respect your passion, all you guys, and the Finals hurt so much to all of us. I'm just trying to expose a hidden truth and offer ways to get over the hump; because this is all about winning a championship.

What?! Dirk has done far more than Duncan ????......Duncan is the greatest PF of all-time. I have absolutely no problem with him being on it.......If anyone doesnt deserve to be on here it's T-Mac....He is the one that has done nothing.

[Nemesis]

But T-Mac scored 15 points in one minute!! And they show it all the time at Houston home games. This has to mean he deserves it. Plus, he has "horse vision" - 270 degrees of it

[Tokey41]

It would make more sense to have Duncan, KG, and Dirk in the ad... the 3 best PF's in the league right now and all debateable for being in the top ten PF's of all time.

[nashtymavsfan13]

It still doesn't look like KG, he looks more like Billups.

[Five-ofan]

Tmac on the left Duncan in the center billups on the right.

[mcsluggo]

I'm not sure, but I think I just read a whole thread where the over-arching premise was that white people cannot be marketed in the USA.



Hmmmmmm.........?