RC must really think Collison sucks

[Aggie E]

The Mike James show in crunchtime and OT. Yeah he made 1 3-pointer but he turned it over at least twice and then he took a 30 ft 3-pointer without ever passing the ball. Someone on the ESPN gameblog said it perfectly, " a gazzion-dollar payroll and a guy on a 10 day is running the show.... Yeah Jason Terry was not needed back and Roddy must be real steaming crap...

[markus1234]

Yes it is sad, but DoJo, Collison and Roddy really suck. They simply can't run the show under pressure.

[pepe]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Yes it is sad, but DoJo, Collison and Roddy really suck. They simply can't run the show under pressure.

Mike James did not exactly run the show

[sike]

Carlisle wants Collison out of here so badly.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by sike

Carlisle wants Collison out of here so badly.

Collision, Roddy, Dojo, and Wright. Can't see how coach likes any of them.

[LonghornDub]

There's not one good reason to play James over Collison. Not one.

[sike]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

There's not one good reason to play James over Collison. Not one.

Does stubbornness count?

[j0Shi]

Just looked up the stats for tonight. It's unbelievable.

Collison 27.74 PER, 0.295 WS48, 0.389 WP48
James: 10.29 PER, -0.023 WS48, 0.093 WP48 (worse than Roddy & DoJo)

lol

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by sike

Does stubbornness count?

It's a reason, all right. A "good" one? I'll leave that to each and every one of us to decide.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I just don't get these curb side players coming and going. CDR, Eddy Curry, Troy Murphy, Mike James, Derek Fisher...enough already.

I just can't see any justification of playing Mike James over Roddy like that. It really does give some credence to the mishandling of the kid. Sure, he might have sucked anyway, but I'd never play Mike James over him.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I just don't get these curb side players coming and going. CDR, Eddy Curry, Troy Murphy, Mike James, Derek Fisher...enough already.

I just can't see any justification of playing Mike James over Roddy like that. It really does give some credence to the mishandling of the kid. Sure, he might have sucked anyway, but I'd never play Mike James over him.

Couldn't agree more. It's not about whether Roddy's good, or whether Collison's great. It's about comparing options. James is an inferior option to either of those guys. Vis-a-vis Collison, he's inferior in every way. Vis-a-vis Roddy, he's better at certain things, but Roddy's better at other things, has upside, and might (unlikely) have a future with the team. James has no future with the team past this year.

Silly move by Rick. Love him, great coach, but he's being obtuse.

[Aggie E]

RC gets the benifit of the doubt because he is a good coach and lead the Mavs to the chip, but he has always dont things in an "interesting" manner. It worked out great in '11 but this seems even more wierd...I think he misses the great P&R offense that JJB brought. If there was one guy other than Chandler than Dallas misses its JJB...

[pepe]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Just looked up the stats for tonight. It's unbelievable.

Collison 27.74 PER, 0.295 WS48, 0.389 WP48
James: 10.29 PER, -0.023 WS48, 0.093 WP48 (worse than Roddy & DoJo)

lol

The RC bias against young players is getting kind of old. I understand believing that James>>DC, Roddy in crunch time give you a better chance to win but when stats like that (and not only today) slap you in the face, you got to ask....WHY?

[pepe]

Originally Posted by Aggie E

RC gets the benifit of the doubt because he is a good coach and lead the Mavs to the chip, but he has always dont things in an "interesting" manner. It worked out great in '11 but this seems even more wierd...I think he misses the great P&R offense that JJB brought. If there was one guy other than Chandler than Dallas misses its JJB...

I admit James seems to be able to find Dirk in the sweet spot and Dirk has not been able to convert..if that is the case bring JJ back or something similar

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Aggie E

The Mike James show in crunchtime and OT. Yeah he made 1 3-pointer but he turned it over at least twice and then he took a 30 ft 3-pointer without ever passing the ball. Someone on the ESPN gameblog said it perfectly, " a gazzion-dollar payroll and a guy on a 10 day is running the show.... Yeah Jason Terry was not needed back and Roddy must be real steaming crap...

Not sure how that's saying it perfectly when Dallas is nowhere close to being one of the top-spending teams this year.

But yeah, if I see Mike James again in crunch-time it'll be too soon. If we're going to have a point guard out there brain-farting the game away I'd rather it be one of the young ones.

I do feel compelled to add, however, that my dissatisfaction with Mike James' decision making out there is not an indication of my overall mindset about tonight's game, which I'm taking as just one more piece of evidence that the Mavs are really quite close to being a legitimately good team.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by pepe

Mike James did not exactly run the show

He sucks too, doesn't say much for collison, dojo and roddy.

[BGMaverick9]

my timeline will have most of everything that's transpired. Some interesting tidbits.

[sike]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I do feel compelled to add, however, that my dissatisfaction with Mike James' decision making out there is not an indication of my overall mindset about tonight's game, which I'm taking as just one more piece of evidence that the Mavs are really quite close to being a legitimately good team.

Glad to hear that someone else is thinking this too.

Having said that, I'm not sure it will make a difference, bc "this team" probably won't make the playoffs and "this team" won't be around next season...but I do see how they could threaten to win any game they play.

At this point, I'm thinking that this year is about figuring out Mayo and Brand and whatever moves they will or won't make at the deadline.

[pepe]

Originally Posted by sike

At this point, I'm thinking that this year is about figuring out Mayo and Brand and whatever moves they will or won't make at the deadline.

Agree, Mayo and Brand are in audition mode

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

my timeline will have most of everything that's transpired. Some interesting tidbits.

Just saw Dirk's comments about the now-infamous Mike James 3. That is interesting. I do think there's something to be said for the veteran players being comfortable with other veterans. It's a factor that is probably all too frequently underrated by fans. And I appreciate James' candor about his mistaken passivity there. But the only reason to play a veteran point guard down the stretch when the game is tight is so that mistake won't get made. It's a mark against James that should be taken just as seriously as the mistakes Darren's made when deciding who gets those critical minutes.

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by pepe

The RC bias against young players is getting kind of old. I understand believing that James>>DC, Roddy in crunch time give you a better chance to win but when stats like that (and not only today) slap you in the face, you got to ask....WHY?

Yea but this thing with RC not trusting young guys goes all the back to the 2010 playoffs game, Roddy help the Mavs get back in game 6 vs the Spurs and was pulled and the Mavs went on to lose the game and series.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by sike

Glad to hear that someone else is thinking this too.

Having said that, I'm not sure it will make a difference, bc "this team" probably won't make the playoffs and "this team" won't be around next season...but I do see how they could threaten to win any game they play.

At this point, I'm thinking that this year is about figuring out Mayo and Brand and whatever moves they will or won't make at the deadline.

I'm actually almost at the point where'd I'd put the odds of a playoff berth in the neighborhood of 50/50. This stretch leading up to the all-star break will be critical and telling. 11 games, 5 roadies, one back-to-back, two elite opponents (SA and @OKC), and outside of that a slew of games against like 5-8 seeds, bubble teams, and lottery fodder. If they're up to the standard they've been teasing us with lately they most likely will have made a good push up to being within spitting distance of the top 8 by the time the festivities begin.

But if your quoting of "this team" means that you think there's a better than 50/50 chance that "this team" gets shaken up at least a bit by a trade, far be it from me to disagree.

[Melonhead]

Hate I missed the game because of work tonight. I see carter had some throw downs, and mayo with buzzer 3. Actually kinda glad I didn't see it with the inevitable overtime loss. Those have stung so bad this year.

This season and beyond, would love to see mayo, brand return to the team. Marion and Vince for the right price, and then hopefully make a little splash in free agency. I personally like collision but Carlisle is screwing with his confidence. You see it when he gets pulled.

Based off comments here, I'm still surprised mike James is our Jason Kidd right now. I'd take a lot of veteran pgs right now over him.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Yes it is sad, but DoJo, Collison and Roddy really suck. They simply can't run the show under pressure.

So, it's ok that James threw it away twice and took a ill-advised three? That's what you call, running the show. Thanks for clearing it up!

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Just saw Dirk's comments about the now-infamous Mike James 3. That is interesting. I do think there's something to be said for the veteran players being comfortable with other veterans. It's a factor that is probably all too frequently underrated by fans. And I appreciate James' candor about his mistaken passivity there. But the only reason to play a veteran point guard down the stretch when the game is tight is so that mistake won't get made.

Winner.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I do think there's something to be said for the veteran players being comfortable with other veterans. It's a factor that is probably all too frequently underrated by fans.

Never quite understood Stevenson over Roddy back in 2011 which I admit was a brilliant move and surely has a lot to do with it.

But also gotta say that I think for some part this is system-based. You can communicate and express trust in young guys or you can bring in washed-up veterans every time it gets tough. Right now I think it's a fixed mechanism for this team, part of their identity and how they operate. And at least I have a hard time sometimes to accept it, bc the older Dirk gets the more I think this is not the strategy to choose.

But we won a championship this way, so really hard to challenge.

[oilfieldtrash]

He does suck. Mike James does too. The fact you can make an argument for either to get minutes says lots about the current state of the mavs PG situation.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

He does suck. Mike James does too. The fact you can make an argument for either to get minutes says lots about the current state of the mavs PG situation.

The amount of knee-jerking on that topic is almost unbearable. He has a lot of areas where he can and has to improve (i.e. get Dirk involved) but he certainly does not suck. I don't know how you can seriously look at him & his numbers and make that assessment.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Never quite understood Stevenson over...

Stevenson could have helped a lot yesterday.

Kidd/Stevenson/Marion was the perfect combination to slow down Durant, Westbrook, Kobe, Wade, LBJ and co.

[LonghornDub]

Let's assume Roddy sucks (I don't think that's quite true, though he's certainly disappointing). That's not the question. And the question isn't even: Does he suck more than Mike James?

The real question is: Does Roddy suck so much more than Mike James--i.e., is the gap so big--that James should play over Roddy in a season where the Mavs are probably not going to make the playoffs and are trying to figure out the future of the franchise, even though Roddy is young and has at least some upside, whereas James is near retirement age and will likely only decline from here?

That's the question we should be asking.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Let's assume Roddy sucks (I don't think that's quite true, though he's certainly disappointing). That's not the question. And the question isn't even: Does he suck more than Mike James?

The real question is: Does Roddy suck so much more than Mike James--i.e., is the gap so big--that James should play over Roddy in a season where the Mavs are probably not going to make the playoffs and are trying to figure out the future of the franchise, even though Roddy is young and has at least some upside, whereas James is near retirement age and will likely only decline from here?

That's the question we should be asking.

I don't think anybody on the Mavs agrees with "probably not going to make the playoffs and are trying to figure out the future of the franchise" (yet)

I said it earlier: I think there's a chance the Mavs will miss the point where they just have to surrender the season and act like a lottery team, which includes playing all the young guns no matter what.

That said: The difference between Roddy and Mike James is not the difference of making or missing the playoffs, at least not on paper.

[jthig32]

Mike James playing backup PG over Roddy is not a huge issue in my book. I don't like it, but I can at least see the argument.

Playing Mike James in crunch time over Collison is idiotic. It baffles my mind that we still have people on this board still claiming that Collison sucks. Is he perfect? No. Is he a prototypical PG? No. Is he clearly a solid rotation-caliber player at worst? Yes. Give him the rest of the year to see if he can figure out how to execute in crunch time and run the team better.

[Dirk's Knee]

Collison suck? You guys are crazy. Collison's game is similar to Westbrook's in many ways. IMHO, we lost that game last night due to 1 and only 1 reason, RC benching Collison. Collison was having a very good game until RC benched him for the clear path foul. The only stats Mike James put up higher than Collison in ~8 minutes less play time is 3 point % (Collison only attempted one and missed) and turnovers (James' 3 vs Collison's 1). Collison had 6 assists, 3 steals, and shot 5 for 6 from the line as well.

The other huge factors were Kaman's typical poor defensive effort (fortunately very limited in minutes) and Dirk's miserable play for the majority of the game. If it wasn't for Vince Cater's uncharacteristically good game last night, we get slaughtered.

If we trade Kaman for another more defensively minded center (Okafor?) and keep Collison in the game, we will win games like this one all day.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Mike James playing backup PG over Roddy is not a huge issue in my book. I don't like it, but I can at least see the argument.

Playing Mike James in crunch time over Collison is idiotic. It baffles my mind that we still have people on this board still claiming that Collison sucks. Is he perfect? No. Is he a prototypical PG? No. Is he clearly a solid rotation-caliber player at worst? Yes. Give him the rest of the year to see if he can figure out how to execute in crunch time and run the team better.

That's clearly the bigger issue, but the Roddy thing is also a worthwhile point of discussion as far as I'm concerned.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

I don't think anybody on the Mavs agrees with "probably not going to make the playoffs and are trying to figure out the future of the franchise" (yet)

Can they really disagree with that, though? You're a numbers guy. From an objective, probabilistic standpoint, isn't it safe to say that the Mavs' chance of making the playoffs are <50%? Thus, they "probably" aren't going to make it.

I'm not saying they can't, or won't, but that seems to be the objective reality of the situation.

[MaverickOutlaw]

A lot of this has to do with Cuban becoming a penny pincher and letting Mavs key parts escape Mav town.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Can they really disagree with that, though? You're a numbers guy. From an objective, probabilistic standpoint, isn't it safe to say that the Mavs' chance of making the playoffs are <50%? Thus, they "probably" aren't going to make it.

I'm not saying they can't, or won't, but that seems to be the objective reality of the situation.

I don't do projections like that, but pretty much every metric out there had the Mavs ranked at a 2% chance before the winning streak, now at 10-15%. Even accounting for the return of Dirk, it's still way under 50%. My personal opinion is that they should hope to sneak in with 40 wins and the right tiebreaker. That said, I don't know when the last team in the West clinched a playoff spot with 40 wins in a 82-game season.

But look, say 15% chance tops, that's enough for a competitor and a franchise to go for it. I get that. I think they really have to make a decision at the trade deadline though. Either sell or buy, but until then I'd say the will continue to play the way they think they can get the most wins now.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Collison suck? You guys are crazy. Collison's game is similar to Westbrook's in many ways. IMHO, we lost that game last night due to 1 and only 1 reason, RC benching Collison. Collison was having a very good game until RC benched him for the clear path foul. The only stats Mike James put up higher than Collison in ~8 minutes less play time is 3 point % (Collison only attempted one and missed) and turnovers (James' 3 vs Collison's 1). Collison had 6 assists, 3 steals, and shot 5 for 6 from the line as well.

The other huge factors were Kaman's typical poor defensive effort (fortunately very limited in minutes) and Dirk's miserable play for the majority of the game. If it wasn't for Vince Cater's uncharacteristically good game last night, we get slaughtered.

If we trade Kaman for another more defensively minded center (Okafor?) and keep Collison in the game, we will win games like this one all day.

Offensive rebounding late (4 in last 9 minutes. Whoever had ibaka sure as hell were not getting it done) had more to do with it than collison.

[grndmstr_c]

The metrics, even the ones that give a stronger weight to recent performance, are all worthless for evaluating the Mavs' playoff chances because they're built on assumptions that simply are not met in the case of a team whose far and away best player was missing for most of the season to date, and who hasn't yet been able to consistently perform close to his usual standard since he got back. Doesn't mean the odds are better than 50%, but seriously, just toss out the point estimates given by those models. The Mavs this season are an outlier case, and the models aren't going to be capable of producing accurate predictions.

[pepe]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The metrics, even the ones that give a stronger weight to recent performance, are all worthless for evaluating the Mavs' playoff chances because they're built on assumptions that simply are not met in the case of a team whose far and away best player was missing for most of the season to date, and who hasn't yet been able to consistently perform close to his usual standard since he got back. Doesn't mean the odds are better than 50%, but seriously, just toss out the point estimates given by those models. The Mavs this season are an outlier case, and the models aren't going to be capable of producing accurate predictions.

I was thinking in those terms, assuming Dirk gets back to average or close to his average offensively and Carter, Marion and Brand keep a level of consistency the unknowns are Mayo and DC level of playing and a tweak in the trading deadline, IMHO a seven game winning streak is possible, play 50% ball the rest of the games and they can make the playoffs.

I got used to see the Mavs in the playoffs so it might be wishful thinking.