Intellectual Trade

[Nash13]

Would you do this?


Dallas trades: SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.7 minutes)
PF Dirk Nowitzki (21.8 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 2.7 apg in 37.9 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Malik Rose (7.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.8 minutes)
PF Tim Duncan (22.3 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 36.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -3.5 ppg, +0.4 rpg, and -0.4 apg.

San Antonio trades: PF Malik Rose (7.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.8 minutes)
PF Tim Duncan (22.3 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 36.6 minutes)
San Antonio receives: SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 66 games)
PF Dirk Nowitzki (21.8 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 2.7 apg in 77 games)
Change in team outlook: +3.5 ppg, -0.4 rpg, and +0.4 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

lineup

Terry/Harris
Daniels/Stackhouse
Finley/
Duncan/Rose
Dampier/Booth/DJ/Pavel

[Fah Q]

Yes

I know this is a fantasy trade so I won't be disparaging and say it will never happen.

[Male30Dan]

Of course you do that... I dont even think twice about it...

[Male30Dan]

I dont know that you could pick any two players on the Mavs that I wouldnt trade for Duncan...

I love Dirk, but he simply is not and never will be in Duncan's league!!!

[cheesestar]

duncan is the best player in the league (imo)

yes

[dalmations202]

Personally, I wouldn't do that trade for anyone in the league..........except Tim Duncan...so Yes..

[endtroducing]

Originally posted by: Male23Dan


I love Dirk, but he simply is not and never will be in Duncan's league!!!

can't say that. dirk's 26 years old, and he hasn't even hit his prime...

[Joey]

I'd trade dirk for only two people in the league...KG or Duncan.

[Male30Dan]

Originally posted by: endtroducing

can't say that. dirk's 26 years old, and he hasn't even hit his prime...

Oh I can say that... You would have to be one of the select few on the board that has a problem with my assessment... Duncan is 28, and based on your age restraints, would have come into "his prime" last year... The only problem with that is that Duncan has been Duncan since year one, (look up the guys stats... His rookie year he had 21 pts, 12 rebs, and 2.5 blocks - this past year he had 22 pts, 12.5 rebs, and 2.7 blocks)... Duncan is a beast on the boards, a great shot blocker, one helluva defender, and can score at will... He is completely unstoppable and only KG and Shaq, (he will not be for long), are in his league... There are only three big men that you trade the farm for, and one of them is too old to do so anymore...

To say that Dirk will be as good as Duncan one day is a bunch of BS... Again, I love the guy, but that is just gumdrops and candy cane talk... It WONT happen because Dirk will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER be as good on the defensive end as Duncan... He will improve and that will be noted this year with the help of a banging center, but he just doesnt have that attitude, (the same attitude that seems to prevent him from being THE GUY)...

Bottom line, Duncan will go down as one of the best all-around players in the history of the NBA... Dirk will go down as one of the most unstoppable offensive european players in NBA history...

[SeriousSummer]

Intellectual Trade: Albert Einstein for Jonathan Edwards

No way you do that. Einstein's work led, among other things, to the development of atomic power. Edwards is only the author of a lot of boring sermons. Besides, I think Edwards hit his prime a century or more ago while Einstein is still one of the big theoretical players in physics.

If I'm giving up Einstein, then I want at least Fermi, Curie, Newton, and Aristotle as well.

Plus salary cap relief and a No. 1 draft pick--not lottery protected.

[dalmations202]

If I'm giving up Einstein, then I want at least Fermi, Curie, Newton, and Aristotle as well.

Yea, and give me Robin Williams and Tom Hanks as well.

[sike]

[quote]
Originally posted by: SeriousSummer

Intellectual Trade: Albert Einstein for Jonathan Edwards

No way you do that. Einstein's work led, among other things, to the development of atomic power.

It all depends on your need at the moment SS, if cultural advances in the field of science is your desire, then you certainly go with Einstein...If your pursuit is a passion for the realm of the unseen God who surpasses all culture...you certainly go with Edwards.

Edwards is only the author of a lot of boring sermons.

wrong. Jonathan Edwards' complete catalog of work is incredible...his works on the process of salvation, the essence of God, and the nature of the will of man have long been treasured by men of all faiths....he was also the front man for the Greatest move of Revival the States have ever seen(Great Awakening)....certainly not a common preacher...one of the greatest minds in US history.

Besides, I think Edwards hit his prime a century or more ago while Einstein is still one of the big theoretical players in physics.

His works are still major influences on anyone who reads theology today...As with Einstein, brilliance never goes out of date.

If I'm giving up Einstein, then I want at least Fermi, Curie, Newton, and Aristotle as well.

If I'm giving up Edwards, then I at least want Martin Luther, Tertullian, Chrysostom, Origen, or Jerome in return...we may be able to work out a combo deal for Aristotle...as for Newton..hes mine!

Plus salary cap relief and a No. 1 draft pick--not lottery protected

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

PUPPY, YOU CAN HAVE ROBIN WILLIAMS....ANYTHING TO SHUT HIM UP! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img].....as for Hanks....you may have to give me Ed Norton and Christian Bale....(a super star for an up and coming superstar and a great prospect)

[Ninkobei]

No way guys! Dirk is the best part about this team. He defines the mavericks! Accepting that trade would be equivelant to Steve Nash signing with the Suns for more money. You aren't supposed to sell out your team! I'm hoping Dirk is a mav for life so he can have his number retired here and be one of the few who have never played anywhere but here. I'm shocked and appalled. Viva Dirk!

[sike]

Intellectual Trade: Albert Einstein for Jonathan Edwards
Einstein gives you a strong mathematical mind (science being a forte) where as Edwards is considered by many the greatest theological mind of the past 500 years…
I could see this trade being fair and equitable

[Pongo]

Last Season


TD 22.3 PPG
KG 24.2 PPG

TD 12.4 RPG
KG 13.9 RPG

TD 3.1 APG
KG 5.0 APG

TD .90 SPG
KG 1.46 SPG

TD 2.68 BPG
KG 2.17 BPG

TD 50.1 FG%
KG 49.9 FG%

TD 59.9 FT%
KG 79.1 FT%

Garnett clearly played better last year, at least according the stats

[endtroducing]

KG won a WCF finals game with Darrick Martin at point guard and Oliver Miller, Olowocoochie and Madsen at center. KG played at least 10 minutes at the point in that game, too. Duncan had more help (Horry, Ginobili, Parker, Rose, Rasho, Turkoglu, Bowen, etc) and STILL lost in six games, just like Minnesota did.

Duncan is a whole lot less versatile, and a whole lot less athletic than Garnett.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
KG won a WCF finals game with Darrick Martin at point guard and Oliver Miller, Olowocoochie and Madsen at center. KG played at least 10 minutes at the point in that game, too. Duncan had more help (Horry, Ginobili, Parker, Rose, Rasho, Turkoglu, Bowen, etc) and STILL lost in six games, just like Minnesota did.

And Garnett played with All-Star, Sam Cassell and previous All-Star Latrell Spreewell

Who are the All-Stars that TD played with? ? ?

Duncan is a whole lot less versatile, and a whole lot less athletic than Garnett.

Yes, but TD is better at the main position of PF. And that is what both of them are listed as.


If you had to start a new league with new draft, I'd argue that at least 80% of all GM's in the NBA would take Tim Duncan #1 overall.

[endtroducing]

cassell did not play in that game.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
cassell did not play in that game.

Maybe not, but to get the stats he had last year, Cassell did play most of it. And was an all-star. And let's face it Sprewell played better than Ginobili and Bowen.

You say that KG did alot, TD did it all year with less top talent around him. And he took the team to the same place that KG did.....losing to the Lakers in 6.

[Male30Dan]

Don't forget the Indiana/LA game in which he almost took Miller's head off!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[alby]

I'm sorry.. but if you don't think Karl Malone and John Stockton.. two players without NBA titles... are all-time greats... you have absolutely no credibility as a judge of basketball talent.

yes true they are great players.. obviously they are the top 50 greatest players of all time.. but they are not in the same class as jordan, bird, magic, kareem, and in reality even td in a few years...

be honest, winning a championship and being at the peak of your profession is what it is all about..

[endtroducing]

Originally posted by: alby

yes true they are great players.. obviously they are the top 50 greatest players of all time.. but they are not in the same class as jordan, bird, magic, kareem, and in reality even td in a few years...

be honest, winning a championship and being at the peak of your profession is what it is all about..

oh my dear sweet god. you've got to be kidding me.

by that thinking, that's like saying Bonds isn't one of the all-time greats...seriously, that was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard anyone say. a championship doesn't mean shit...that's a TEAM accomplishment. we're talking about players here. using your logic, Darko has accomplished more than Barkley...

[Male30Dan]

Originally posted by: endtroducing

oh my dear sweet god. you've got to be kidding me.

by that thinking, that's like saying Bonds isn't one of the all-time greats...seriously, that was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard anyone say. a championship doesn't mean shit...that's a TEAM accomplishment. we're talking about players here. using your logic, Darko has accomplished more than Barkley...

ET,

I don't get what makes Alby's post "one of the stupidest things YOU'VE ever heard." For that matter, your post has its fair share of stupid comments that should be pointed out... A championship IS a team accomplishment, but to be a GREAT player, you DO need to have the testicular fortitude to lead your troops to the promised land... I believe that definitely seperates the great from the GREAT, if you understand my point... To say that one guy that has averaged 25ppg and 12rpg for his career and never made the playoffs is better than a guy that led his team to the championship 3 times while only averaging 22 and 11 would be incredibly unintelligent... You need to understand that the whole championship point Alby is making has nothing to do with players like Darko. Alby's point is focused on the MAIN guy on a team, (though on Detroit it would be hard to find ONE main guy)... Players like Barkley, who were VERY good, can NOT be put in the same class as those that put up similiar numbers and won the championship... Hell even Barkley would tell you that, (and I think he did on that website where his quotes are collected)...

Look man, the bottom line is that a player like Derek Jeter is better than a player like Miguel Tejada, despite what the numbers say, (and trust me, that is hard to say because I DESPISE the Yankees)... People that come up big and clutch and those that lead are the ones that are respected and looked up to... Does this mean that Barry Bonds isn't one of the all-time greats??? Nope, not a chance... But does it mean that he isn't the best in the game??? You bet your sweet ass it does... If Im an owner and I look for a guy to help me win, do I select a guy that can hit me 50+ homeruns, drive in 120+ RBI, with ZERO leadership abilities and a bad attitude, or a guy that has led his team to the promised land before and will always have an attitude that is looking for the trophy while putting up less numbers??? I think just about EVERYONE would choose the latter, except for you...

So to say that a championship doesn't mean shit in the legacy of a player, (in ANY sport), is just STUPID! It matters to every single one of the guys, and it matters to the media and fans when deciding the best of the best... This is why players like Malone, Barkley, Drexler, Payton, and many others have tried to do whatever it took to win after they came to the conclusion that the team they were on wasn't going to do it!!!

For that to be something that you consider stupid really tells me a lot about the bag of knowledge you bring to this site...

[poohrichardson]

Originally posted by: Male23Dan

ET,

I don't get what makes Alby's post "one of the stupidest things YOU'VE ever heard." For that matter, your post has its fair share of stupid comments that should be pointed out... A championship IS a team accomplishment, but to be a GREAT player, you DO need to have the testicular fortitude to lead your troops to the promised land... I believe that definitely seperates the great from the GREAT, if you understand my point... To say that one guy that has averaged 25ppg and 12rpg for his career and never made the playoffs is better than a guy that led his team to the championship 3 times while only averaging 22 and 11 would be incredibly unintelligent... You need to understand that the whole championship point Alby is making has nothing to do with players like Darko. Alby's point is focused on the MAIN guy on a team, (though on Detroit it would be hard to find ONE main guy)... Players like Barkley, who were VERY good, can NOT be put in the same class as those that put up similiar numbers and won the championship... Hell even Barkley would tell you that, (and I think he did on that website where his quotes are collected)...

Look man, the bottom line is that a player like Derek Jeter is better than a player like Miguel Tejada, despite what the numbers say, (and trust me, that is hard to say because I DESPISE the Yankees)... People that come up big and clutch and those that lead are the ones that are respected and looked up to... Does this mean that Barry Bonds isn't one of the all-time greats??? Nope, not a chance... But does it mean that he isn't the best in the game??? You bet your sweet ass it does... If Im an owner and I look for a guy to help me win, do I select a guy that can hit me 50+ homeruns, drive in 120+ RBI, with ZERO leadership abilities and a bad attitude, or a guy that has led his team to the promised land before and will always have an attitude that is looking for the trophy while putting up less numbers??? I think just about EVERYONE would choose the latter, except for you...

So to say that a championship doesn't mean shit in the legacy of a player, (in ANY sport), is just STUPID! It matters to every single one of the guys, and it matters to the media and fans when deciding the best of the best... This is why players like Malone, Barkley, Drexler, Payton, and many others have tried to do whatever it took to win after they came to the conclusion that the team they were on wasn't going to do it!!!

For that to be something that you consider stupid really tells me a lot about the bag of knowledge you bring to this site...

I think true greats like Stockton, Malone, Barkley, etc.. are truely great because their legacy shines on above many champions despite the fact that they "only" led their teams to the Finals. I mean, come on.. did anyone really expect the Jazz or Suns to beat the Bulls? You could have had Chamberlain in his PRIME against Jordan's Bulls and he wouldn't have been able to win. Oop! I guess that means he isn't an all-time great!

[sike]

and the insults are really childish and kind of uncalled for. we're all Mavericks fans here.

Originally posted by: endtroducing: that was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard anyone say.

good point

[Male30Dan]

See... This is what I mean... You guys dont read carefully enough before you post... I said in a post DIRECTLY TO YOU: "Ugh... I told you already that this is based on a teams best guy or best guys... It was not Horace Grant's Bulls but it was Ewing's Knicks."

This is why you can't compare Fisher to Monroe in my example... To ask questions like that is just flat nitpicking and frankly, reaching...

Regarding "The Pearl" vs. "The Glove" I say hands down Gary was the better player, (but this isn't really fair, because you are comparing a PG to a SG - Earl always had other guys dishing the ball like Lucas and Frazier)... Keep in mind that when Monroe won a title he had Walt, Dave, and Bill all scoring more than him with Willis and Jerry all close behind...

Please don't nitpick and please dont reach... If you want your opinion respected, do the same for me rather than trying to find a crack every place you can!!!

[endtroducing]

Originally posted by: Male23Dan
See... This is what I mean... You guys dont read carefully enough before you post... I said in a post DIRECTLY TO YOU: "Ugh... I told you already that this is based on a teams best guy or best guys... It was not Horace Grant's Bulls but it was Ewing's Knicks."

This is why you can't compare Fisher to Monroe in my example... To ask questions like that is just flat nitpicking and frankly, reaching...

Regarding "The Pearl" vs. "The Glove" I say hands down Gary was the better player, (but this isn't really fair, because you are comparing a PG to a SG - Earl always had other guys dishing the ball like Lucas and Frazier)... Keep in mind that when Monroe won a title he had Walt, Dave, and Bill all scoring more than him with Willis and Jerry all close behind...

Please don't nitpick and please dont reach... If you want your opinion respected, do the same for me rather than trying to find a crack every place you can!!!

the Knicks weren't Monroe's team, the Lakers weren't Fisher's team. Fisher had Shaq, Monroe had Reed...both Monroe and Fisher were point guards. not a reach at all. they played the same role, they didn't carry the load of scoring at all. they weren't asked to.

Monroe's got one ring, Fisher has three. similar numbers in their title year, similar roles, different numbers of titles...

Monroe went to NY to win a title and be a role player, Payton went to LA to win a title and be a role player, and Fisher has been a role player his whole career. almost IDENTICAL numbers in said seasons, even though Payton outclasses both of them in every other season he's played (but doesn't have a ring). so, who's better, Payton, Monroe or Fisher?

I'm not saying titles aren't important, because they are, but I don't think it defines how good the player is at the game of basketball. that's the first and foremost thing, to me at least, when you talk about being an all-time great, which is an individual accolade. that's what I'm trying to prove here.

[V2M]

I agree with Male23Dan and Alby on this topic. There are many great players but a few of 'em are considered greater among the greats. Those are the ones who've won championships.

Malone, Stockton, Payton, Barkley, Ewing, etc., are all no doubt Hall of Fame bound. But I would never ever put 'em on par with Jordan, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, etc.

Question to ET and PR: Who'd you pick to quarterback your team, Joe Montana or Dan Marino... and why?

[poohrichardson]

Originally posted by: V2M
I agree with Male23Dan and Alby on this topic. There are many great players but a few of 'em are considered greater among the greats. Those are the ones who've won championships.

Malone, Stockton, Payton, Barkley, Ewing, etc., are all no doubt Hall of Fame bound. But I would never ever put 'em on par with Jordan, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, etc.

Question to ET and PR: Who'd you pick to quarterback your team, Joe Montana or Dan Marino... and why?

That's just a different story.. because Super Bowl rings or not, I just plain think Montana was better. It has absolutely nothing to do with Marino's lack of a championship.

[Male30Dan]

Originally posted by: poohrichardson

That's just a different story.. because Super Bowl rings or not, I just plain think Montana was better. It has absolutely nothing to do with Marino's lack of a championship.

But I dont think you would have said that if the shoe were on the other foot, and Marino had led his team to multiple Super Bowl titles... You may not see that, but I dont know how you wouldn't considering that Marino owns most of the records and all Montana has on him is the titles!!! I think if Marino would have won multiple Super Bowls, there would not even be a SLIGHT QUESTION as to who is the best QB in the history of the game... As it stands, despite the records Marino holds, there is definitely debate as to who the best ever is at QB!

[Male30Dan]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
The Knicks weren't Monroe's team, the Lakers weren't Fisher's team. Fisher had Shaq, Monroe had Reed...both Monroe and Fisher were point guards. not a reach at all. they played the same role, they didn't carry the load of scoring at all. they weren't asked to.

Monroe's got one ring, Fisher has three. similar numbers in their title year, similar roles, different numbers of titles...

Monroe went to NY to win a title and be a role player, Payton went to LA to win a title and be a role player, and Fisher has been a role player his whole career. almost IDENTICAL numbers in said seasons, even though Payton outclasses both of them in every other season he's played (but doesn't have a ring). so, who's better, Payton, Monroe or Fisher?

I'm not saying titles aren't important, because they are, but I don't think it defines how good the player is at the game of basketball. that's the first and foremost thing, to me at least, when you talk about being an all-time great, which is an individual accolade. that's what I'm trying to prove here.

Again, you just dont get my point here... My point is that this ENTIRE ISSUE does not play a part for role players or guys that just jump on for the ride... Im talking about guys like Barkley, Malone, Payton, etc... WHEN THEY WERE THE LEADER OF THEIR TEAMS... Barkley with Philly and Phoenix... Malone with the Jazz... Payton with Seattle... Players that, when in their prime, and with their teams, could not get it done... Those are the guys that fall short of the guys in their same situation that COULD get it done... So YES, you are reaching when you start looking at guys like Derek friggin Fisher... And I hate to tell you, but Derek Fisher did NOT have similiar numbers to Monroe during his championship year, (which by the way was one of Earl's worst years statistically)...

Fisher's averages during the Lakers 3 titles:

9.6ppg
3.2apg
2.3rpg

Monroe's average during the Knicks title:

15.5ppg
3.8apg
3.3rpg

I mean come on... Fisher is a career 7.4ppg guy while giving you 3apg... And you don't think this is reaching by comparing him to Monroe at a career 18.8ppg while giving you 3.8apg, (and he was a shooting guard in a point guard's body)... Yeah... REAL SIMILIAR!!!

And by the way... I said that Payton was better in my opinion that Monroe, but dont say that he outclassed him every year... Monroe put up some good numbers early in his career... Payton has never put up 26ppg in a season, and in fact, the only reason I chose Payton over Earl was because of his assist numbers and steals... Payton is a career 18ppg guy, LOWER than Monroe!!!

[endtroducing]

Originally posted by: Male23Dan

Again, you just dont get my point here... My point is that this ENTIRE ISSUE does not play a part for role players or guys that just jump on for the ride... Im talking about guys like Barkley, Malone, Payton, etc... WHEN THEY WERE THE LEADER OF THEIR TEAMS... Barkley with Philly and Phoenix... Malone with the Jazz... Payton with Seattle... Players that, when in their prime, and with their teams, could not get it done... Those are the guys that fall short of the guys in their same situation that COULD get it done... So YES, you are reaching when you start looking at guys like Derek friggin Fisher... And I hate to tell you, but Derek Fisher did NOT have similiar numbers to Monroe during his championship year, (which by the way was one of Earl's worst years statistically)...

Fisher's averages during the Lakers 3 titles:

9.6ppg
3.2apg
2.3rpg

Monroe's average during the Knicks title:

15.5ppg
3.8apg
3.3rpg

I mean come on... Fisher is a career 7.4ppg guy while giving you 3apg... And you don't think this is reaching by comparing him to Monroe at a career 18.8ppg while giving you 3.8apg, (and he was a shooting guard in a point guard's body)... Yeah... REAL SIMILIAR!!!

And by the way... I said that Payton was better in my opinion that Monroe, but dont say that he outclassed him every year... Monroe put up some good numbers early in his career... Payton has never put up 26ppg in a season, and in fact, the only reason I chose Payton over Earl was because of his assist numbers and steals... Payton is a career 18ppg guy, LOWER than Monroe!!!

I compared Monroe's title season to Fisher's title season in 2000...

and yeah, I would have Marino over Montana.

[Male30Dan]

I compared Monroe's title season to Fisher's title season in 2000...

and yeah, I would have Marino over Montana.

Nice of you to pick his most productive year of the three, (way more productive than his career averages and conveniently lower for Monroe than almost all other years)!!! Agree with me or not, but it was a poor comparison!

But you have told me all I need to know if you pick Marino...

And introducing Endtroducing's starting 5.....

Stephon Marbury
Allen Iverson
Tracy McGrady (we will include him as a 3 even though he primarly is a 2)
Chris Webber
Shaquille O'Neal

Hey, at least they can all put up numbers, right??? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Male30Dan]

One more post... WOW...

[Male30Dan]

Can't.... seem... to.... stop...... myself.......

So now stats AND championships dont mean shit...

Now its all about grit!!!

LMAO!!!

Wow...

[Male30Dan]

Yawn... Whatever dude... You go right ahead and pick the Bruce Bowen's and Ron Artest's of the world, as they are obviously the BEST COMPETITORS... You are running out of things to respect a player for... And if you are going to lump yourself with ET, who DID talk about stats, dont feel bad when I lump the two of you back together... I think you said: endtroducing and I are the ones that seem to understand that the numbers don't mean a damn thing... Of course, this all goes back to the reading thing, huh???

Yawn...

[jayC]

No ifs, ands or's about it. Duncan makes the other players around him better. He has two NBA titles and two mvps.

[dalmations202]

Dispute over Duncan wins 46-9...............................

[endtroducing]

jason terry
latrell sprewell
rashard lewis
dirk nowitzki
stromile swift

that'd be my starting five, just so you know

[Male30Dan]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
jason terry
latrell sprewell
rashard lewis
dirk nowitzki
stromile swift

that'd be my starting five, just so you know

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for the update!!!