GDT: Preseason game 6 - Rockets(4-1) at Mavs (2-3). 7:30pm. TXA21/NBALP

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Thing with Barnes is that it's really only his shot not going in that looks off about his overall game. I realize this is a make shots or get out league, but once they start falling....he'll be dangerous.

I wouldn't be shocked if he stays below 40% for the whole season. The thing is, with Barnes you can pretty much throw his career averages out the window, which don't look that good to begin with. He will get completely different looks here, and there is nothing that indicates that he will be able to knock them down on a consistent basis. This could turn out to be one of the biggest blunders in NBA history, and I hope that it will not, but no one should be shocked, if it does.

[dirt_dobber]

Justin Anderson looked good and sharp.
finished with 8 pts, 3 reb and 2 asts in 17 min. Going to enjoy watching him this season.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

I wouldn't be shocked if he stays below 40% for the whole season. The thing is, with Barnes you can pretty much throw his career averages out the window, which don't look that good to begin with. He will get completely different looks here, and there is nothing that indicates that he will be able to knock them down on a consistent basis. This could turn out to be one of the biggest blunders in NBA history, and I hope that it will not, but no one should be shocked, if it does.

Meh, if Justin Anderson happens to be better than Barnes, then that is a good thing to have happen.

Contract blunders are the new NBA with the ridiculous cap. There are going to be dozens of bad contracts now. It is what it is.

Barnes is still very young and needs serious grooming. It'll be interesting to see what Rick can get out of him.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Meh, if Justin Anderson happens to be better than Barnes, then that is a good thing to have happen.

Contract blunders are the new NBA with the ridiculous cap. There are going to be dozens of bad contracts now. It is what it is.

Barnes is still very young and needs serious grooming. It'll be interesting to see what Rick can get out of him.

I hope that a lot. You are right, though this could be more than a simple overpay, if he stays this way. But he won't. He will be better than this, how much better, that is the question.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I won't be worried about Barnes until I see him struggling into December. Even then, I'm going to be really patient with him and not expecting him to be our best player.

Yeah, he will take time. He's a talented all-around player, but his role is 100% different than it was so he's not only learning how to take a new role, he's learning a new system at the same time. Just like Matthews needed patience last year, Barnes will need it this year, except Matthews just had to learn to defend and where to go to get the ball. Barnes is going to have the ball in his hands.

I'm cautiously optimistic. I think he's far from a guarantee to be a star with us, but judging him based on 6 preseason games is silly.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I'm cautiously optimistic. I think he's far from a guarantee to be a star with us, but judging him based on 6 preseason games is silly.

Why are you assuming that anybody judges him based on six preseason games? He is a four year veteran, with pretty clear limitations (handles, vision, non-set shots). Not saying he cannot improove, but it's pretty clear at this point that he is never going to be a legit Nr.1 guy. I would be shocked if becomes a legit Nr.2 guy, actually. That doesn't mean he can't help us, but saying that "he's far from a guarantee to be a star" is a huge understatement. He has zero chance of becoming a star, and that's not me being a hater, but simply being realistic. He has zero elite tools on offense, none, including physical attributes.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Why are you assuming that anybody judges him based on six preseason games? He is a four year veteran, with pretty clear limitations (handles, vision, non-set shots). Not saying he cannot improove, but it's pretty clear at this point that he is never going to be a legit Nr.1 guy. I would be shocked if becomes a legit Nr.2 guy, actually. That doesn't mean he can't help us, but saying that "he's far from a guarantee to be a star" is a huge understatement. He has zero chance of becoming a star, and that's not me being a hater, but simply being realistic. He has zero elite tools on offense, none, including physical attributes.

Can't say that I'm overly impressed with Barnes thus far but it is a different system and a completely different situation so we need to give it some time.

I still think if he can eventually fill the Matrix role that he will reach my expectations. If he turns out to be a critical role player I'd be ok with that even though he is getting "go-to guy" money. DWill, Dirk and Wes are our catalysts on offense and I'm hoping Curry and Anderson will take their games up a few notches to take some of that offensive pressure off Barnes.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Why are you assuming that anybody judges him based on six preseason games? He is a four year veteran, with pretty clear limitations (handles, vision, non-set shots). Not saying he cannot improove, but it's pretty clear at this point that he is never going to be a legit Nr.1 guy. I would be shocked if becomes a legit Nr.2 guy, actually. That doesn't mean he can't help us, but saying that "he's far from a guarantee to be a star" is a huge understatement. He has zero chance of becoming a star, and that's not me being a hater, but simply being realistic. He has zero elite tools on offense, none, including physical attributes.

Yeah but you're ignoring the things he does well. He has good hands on defense, is active on defense, and hustles for the rebound. He also makes good cuts on offense. These are things a talented player with a small role on a good team have.

Zero chance at becoming a star? Thanks Nostradamus.

[DoYouEvenLift]

It still has to be one of the most questionable max contracts of all time. You don't give someone the max who you hope will be a lot better than he is now, I wouldn't even use the word potential because he has not shown the potential to be a max player. Parsons was another example of that although I was never a Parsons fan but being fair he viciously attacked the basket in Houston and I could see him at least as someone with potential and his max was not near what Barnes is, although the cap has gone up.

I understand there's a cap floor but if you stay below it you have to split the difference between the roster for ONE SEASON, I would have rather done than that sign Barnes for 24 million for 4 seasons. But we have him and I root for anybody in a Mavs uniform so I hope he exceeds all expectations.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by DoYouEvenLift

My claim is Harden will not be a great player in his 30's. He already is a terrible defender and not a distributer and he gets his points off driving mostly and getting to the free throw line and he tends to get really fat in the summer, doesn't seem like a good combo to expect success later in his career. Who knows I could be wrong but I could see him being a mid level player or slightly better one day. It can happen there was a time when someone would be have been called crazy if they claimed Deron Williams would not be considered a top pg in his 30's and that happened.

One day, maybe, but he seems to be a really good fit in MDA's system. He is racking up the dimes. Haven't seem them play so can't judge the defense, but that's hardly a key component of MDA's teams. He's still fairly young. His issues aren't physical, they are mental. If he keeps his head on straight and stays focused and keeps his effort high, he'll be a very good player for a while still. 'IF'.... last year he didn't.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Yeah but you're ignoring the things he does well. He has good hands on defense, is active on defense, and hustles for the rebound. He also makes good cuts on offense. These are things a talented player with a small role on a good team have.

Zero chance at becoming a star? Thanks Nostradamus.

I'm not ignoring anything, and the attributes that you just described, are the attributes of a role player. I said that he does good things. Yes, he has zero chance at becoming a star, and anybody who knows his game, can confirm this. In order to have star potential, you have to have elite tools, either physical or skill-wise, or a combination of the two is the best. He doesn't have any, it's just this simple.

[EricaLubarsky]

Someone told me in this thread that no one was judging Barnes based on preseason.

They obviously haven't read a thread where posters are saying he has zero chance of being a star...after 6 preseason games

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Someone told me in this thread that no one was judging Barnes based on preseason.

They obviously haven't read a thread where posters are saying he has zero chance of being a star...after 6 preseason games

Why are this this ignorant? I'm basing my opinion on his college and NBA career, not 6 preseason games. Barnes was a star in high school, and his main problem started to materialize as soon as he hit the college level. Barnes had a good head on his shoulders, and was quite well-verse in fundamentals at a young age. This allowed him to dominate at the high school level, because his level of play was much better than the average high schooler's.

Once he was in college, however, his stock started to drop almost immediately. The truth is, he was close to his current level in his rookie season. Some fans say that he actually made only miniscule improvements to his game since college. Either way, it is very clear that he has serious limitations, and a low ceiling.

Quite frankly I'm baffled why you guys are offended by this. The guy has zero chance of becoming a star, just like many good role players in the NBA. That doesn't mean he can't help us, but how would he become a star, as a perimeter player, without handles? Can you mention a single player in the league who did this?

To be a star, you have to possess elite skills, he has zero. He does a lot of things at an average or good level, but without the handles and the playmaking ability, he has zero chance of becoming a star. Do you think Covington has a chance to become a star? Batum?

I'm not saying he cannot be a good role player for us, or even a decent second option (though I find that unlikely as well), but yeah, based on his college and professional career, he has zero chance of becoming a star. He doesn't have the tools, and for a player to go from having very poor handles at 24 to develop good ones, would be virtually unprecedented.

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Why are this this ignorant? I'm basing my opinion on his college and NBA career, not 6 preseason games. Barnes was a star in high school, and his main problem started to materialize as soon as he hit the college level. Barnes had a good head on his shoulders, and was quite well-verse in fundamentals at a young age. This allowed him to dominate at the high school level, because his level of play was much better than the average high schooler's.

Once he was in college, however, his stock started to drop almost immediately. The truth is, he was close to his current level in his rookie season. Some fans say that he actually made only miniscule improvements to his game since college. Either way, it is very clear that he has serious limitations, and a low ceiling.

Quite frankly I'm baffled why you guys are offended by this. The guy has zero chance of becoming a star, just like many good role players in the NBA. That doesn't mean he can't help us, but how would he become a star, as a perimeter player, without handles? Can you mention a single player in the league who did this?

To be a star, you have to possess elite skills, he has zero. He does a lot of things at an average or good level, but without the handles and the playmaking ability, he has zero chance of becoming a star. Do you think Covington has a chance to become a star? Batum?

I'm not saying he cannot be a good role player for us, or even a decent second option (though I find that unlikely as well), but yeah, based on his college and professional career, he has zero chance of becoming a star. He doesn't have the tools, and for a player to go from having very poor handles at 24 to develop good ones, would be virtually unprecedented.

+rep tbh

[DevinHarriswillstart]

But what makes a star? Having to score over 20 ppg?

I always come back to Kawhi Leonard as the new example of what a star can be. Leonard was never really a big scorer until this past season, but was definitely considered by most to be a star because of his great defense and rebounding. It's obviously a long shot for Barnes to reach Leonard's level, but he is the closest I'd compare to what Barnes could become.

The main issue isn't whether Barnes makes his shots anyway. His ball handling is what might eventually hold him back from that next tier.

Still too early to judge though. We'll know what we have come January.

[Budapest Maverick]

Leonard has a developed back to the basket game, an elite jumpshot, a historic wingspan for a wing player, an above average to good handle in half court settings, a quicker first step, better athleticism, and, oh yeah, he is arguably the GOAT perimeter defender ignoring the length of his body of work. He is also younger if I'm not mistaken, though I'm not 100% sure about that. Sorry, but there is zero chance that Barnes comes close to that level, never mind reaching it. In my opinion, Barnes' best case scenario is 18/6/3 on 55-56% TS. I reallly hope that he can reach that level, though I personally would not bet on it.

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

To be a star, you have to possess elite skills, he has zero. He does a lot of things at an average or good level, but without the handles and the playmaking ability, he has zero chance of becoming a star. Do you think Covington has a chance to become a star? Batum?

I think this is the biggest problem - people define star status differently. A star can be well known name by the league. What I have read, your description would fit what I define as superstar.

I have nothing valuable to add in terms of how high Barnes' sealing is. People should keep in mind that when he was signed, most agreed that he could be number 2 option. This would have Matthews and Barnes filling 2nd and 3rd man roles and put Mavs in a race to sign 'star' or 'superstar' caliber player.

I have no clue where this Barnes number 1 potential talk started. Mavs' training staff did say they wanted to increase his responsibilities, but this is mostly just to see what exactly is his ceiling.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thebo

I think this is the biggest problem - people define star status differently. A star can be well known name by the league. What I have read, your description would fit what I define as superstar.

I have nothing valuable to add in terms of how high Barnes' sealing is. People should keep in mind that when he was signed, most agreed that he could be number 2 option. This would have Matthews and Barnes filling 2nd and 3rd man roles and put Mavs in a race to sign 'star' or 'superstar' caliber player.

I have no clue where this Barnes number 1 potential talk started. Mavs' training staff did say they wanted to increase his responsibilities, but this is mostly just to see what exactly is his ceiling.

Pretty sure people have high expectations of Barnes based on his paycheck alone... It's Erick Dampier 2.0 -- no matter how well he plays, people are going to bag on him because he's not playing as well as he's getting paid. Hopefully he ends up somewhere closer to Marion, where he's slightly overpaid, but earns his paycheck as a glue guy who does most of his work outside the box score.

And that's fine, we shouldn't expect anything more from Barnes. Honestly, I see him and Matthews as being kind of the same thing -- cornerstone players brought here to lure a superstar. We have everything in place, just need to get a badass scorer on the floor and we're right back in the mix.

[Budapest Maverick]

Yeah, we really do need a star scorer. Imagine this team with everyone in his prime though... We could win 65 games. Peak Dirk and Deron surrounded by elite defenders and tier-1 role players.... Too bad that time flies.

[DoYouEvenLift]

Someone like Isaiah Thomas would be nice for us although he's signed for 2 more seasons and I don't see Boston trading him to us. Since we pretty much have positions 2-5 settled other than maybe the center and as long as Dirk doesn't retire a high scoring pg would probably be the way to go next summer although it's easier said than done to land one. Perhaps Seth can lure his bro Steph here. :P But being serious there's quite a few good free agent pgs next summer.

1. Steph Curry
2. Chris Paul (player option)
3. Kyle Lowry (player option)
4. Dennis Schroder (restricted)
5. Jrue Holiday
6. Jeff Teague
7. Derrick Rose
8. Shaun Livingston
9. Rajon Rondo (syke)

As far as center if we don't stay with Bogut I could see Greg Monroe (player option) as an option but most of the best centers are restricted and probably unattainable.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DoYouEvenLift

Someone like Isaiah Thomas would be nice for us although he's signed for 2 more seasons and I don't see Boston trading him to us. Since we pretty much have positions 2-5 settled other than maybe the center and as long as Dirk doesn't retire a high scoring pg would probably be the way to go next summer although it's easier said than done to land one. Perhaps Seth can lure his bro Steph here. :P But being serious there's quite a few good free agent pgs next summer.

1. Steph Curry
2. Chris Paul (player option)
3. Kyle Lowry (player option)
4. Dennis Schroder (restricted)
5. Jrue Holiday
6. Jeff Teague
7. Derrick Rose
8. Shaun Livingston
9. Rajon Rondo (syke)

As far as center if we don't stay with Bogut I could see Greg Monroe (player option) as an option but most of the best centers are restricted and probably unattainable.

Teague and Schroder are the only ones on that list we have a remote chance at. Shaun too old, meh on Holiday money, LOL rose.

[DoYouEvenLift]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Teague and Schroder are the only ones on that list we have a remote chance at. Shaun too old, meh on Holiday money, LOL rose.

Even Schroder is up to the Hawks he gets the chance to start this year if he's really good they'll probably keep him if he's really bad we probably won't want him.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DoYouEvenLift

1. Steph Curry

Just gotta wait for Durant to push him out... Maybe Seth, Bogut and Barnes can lure him to Dallas?

[NeedlesKane]

Posted in wrong thread. My bad!

[DoYouEvenLift]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Just gotta wait for Durant to push him out... Maybe Seth, Bogut and Barnes can lure him to Dallas?

Steph's agent: We want the max
Warriors: We'll offer the same contract as last time 12 million per
Steph's agent: Fine, we're headed to Dallas!