Horry suspended two games; Stoudemire, Diaw for one each - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 05-15-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Horry suspended two games; Stoudemire, Diaw for one each

May 15, 2007
CBS SportsLine.com wire reports

PHOENIX -- Phoenix center Amare Stoudemire and teammate Boris Diaw were suspended Tuesday for one game for leaving the bench after Robert Horry's flagrant foul of Steve Nash in Game 4 of the Suns' Western Conference semifinal against San Antonio.

The NBA also announced Horry was suspended for two games for knocking Nash into the scorer's table with 18 seconds remaining in the Suns' 104-98 victory at San Antonio on Monday night. Phoenix's victory evened the series at 2-2.

All three players will miss Wednesday night's Game 5 in Phoenix of what has been a rough, intense showdown between two of the best teams in the NBA. Horry also will miss Friday night's Game 6 in San Antonio.

Horry was suspended for flagrantly fouling Nash and striking Raja Bell about the shoulders with a forearm, NBA executive vice president Stu Jackson said in a statement. Stoudemire and Diaw were suspended for leaving "the immediate vicinity of their bench" during the altercation.
AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service

Copyright 2006-2007, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/10183225

Just noticed this was already posted in the Suns/Spurs thread. Sorry about that.

Flacolaco · 05-15-2007, 06:44 PM

Well then, I assume that Baron Davis is going to get suspended for sending Derek Fisher to the ground when the ball was nowhere near the play. Right? right?

Hitman · 05-15-2007, 07:33 PM

Lame rule.

I know Stern likes to play it by the book, but this is ridiculous.

some-dude · 05-15-2007, 07:37 PM

Intersting.
Why didnt Duncan get a game for this then...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6Sq0uuaMHY

GermanFan · 05-15-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Well then, I assume that Baron Davis is going to get suspended for sending Derek Fisher to the ground when the ball was nowhere near the play. Right? right?

nope

Davis disciplined but not suspended
May 15, 2007

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Golden State guard Baron Davis was cleared to play in Game 5 of the Western Conference semifinals on Tuesday despite his flagrant foul on Utah's Derek Fisher in Game 4.

The play from late in Utah's 115-101 victory on Sunday happened away from the ball and was not seen by officials. On Tuesday the NBA reviewed it and gave Davis a flagrant foul, but did not suspend him.

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"It was a relief, but I didn't think I was going to get suspended anyway. I didn't feel that I should have been suspended," Davis said.

With 1:37 left in the game and the Jazz on their way to taking a 3-1 series lead, Davis and Fisher were running up the court when Davis stopped and Fisher didn't. Fisher ran into Davis' elbow and immediately dropped to the floor holding his head.

There was no foul called on the play. The league looked at the replay and gave Davis a Type II flagrant foul, which would have meant an automatic ejection had it been called during the game.

"I think it's fair," Davis said. "I didn't intend to hurt nobody out there, especially a good friend in Derek Fisher."

Davis apologized to Fisher, who was well enough to finish the game.

Fisher said any discipline was up to the league, not him.

"I think the game is played at too intense of a level and too emotional of a level to be able to after a game go back and judge what a guy's intention was," Fisher said.

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12 Tone Melodies · 05-15-2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by some-dude

Intersting.
Why didnt Duncan get a game for this then...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6Sq0uuaMHY

It wasn't an "altercation"

4cwebb · 05-15-2007, 08:01 PM

this is a great tradeoff for the Spurs --- Horry for Stoudemire and Diaw. Pat Burke, are you ready?

Popeye · 05-15-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12 Tone Melodies

It wasn't an "altercation"

Yep, it's in the nba rule book that a teabag followed by an undercut is not an altercation but a body check out of bounds is an altercation.

Janett_Reno · 05-15-2007, 09:33 PM

In an article, Kerr writes of Duncan and Bowen leaving the bench also. When Amare was out, Nash did win but it was Diaw that stepped up huge. It looks like an easy win for SA but never count Steve Nash out. This next game is so crucial for both teams and it is ashame they took Nash's main weapon away. Kurt Thomas will have to really play big.

wesbrynt · 05-15-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Well then, I assume that Baron Davis is going to get suspended for sending Derek Fisher to the ground when the ball was nowhere near the play. Right? right?

Davis should have been suspended the whole team is dirty Richardson, Barnes, Jackson they all take cheap shots and then throw their temper tantrums when you foul them Damn i really hate jackson and that beaver looking baron davis!

MavsX · 05-15-2007, 10:14 PM

what a bunch of BS. Horry has a history of this, in this series! That foul was across the line....suspend him yes..

the suns players NO

Dtownsfinest · 05-15-2007, 11:26 PM

Should've gave Horry 1 game and let the teams determine who wins. Now the NBA is getting involved in the outcome of the series.

chumdawg · 05-16-2007, 02:05 AM

Watching some more replays tonight...if you have four assistant coaches out in front of you, who hold you back, have you really left the vicinity of your bench?

The entire bench moved forward. Stoudemire moved more forward, because he was sitting down the bench. But no one was anywhere near close to entering the fracas.

NBA is shooting themselves in the foot by their interpretation of this rule. In doing so, they are making themselves look bad--when the whole purpose of the rule (which worked in this case, I believe) was to try to improve their image.

I just don't get it.

StackAttack · 05-16-2007, 06:51 AM

bobatundi · 05-16-2007, 07:59 AM

In hindsight, I see how we could have beaten GS: just send Ager in there to knock the living crap out of one of their players while guys like Davis & Jackson were on the bench. You know they would have left the bench, thugs that they are. Could have at least forced a Game 7 that way, if we'd employed that tactic in Game 5.

Amazes me how the NBA claims it wants to clean up its image, but ultimately appears to be rewarding thuggish behavior.

Dtownsfinest · 05-16-2007, 09:06 AM

How is it awarding thuggish behavior? The Spurs most clutch player and one of the most clutch players in NBA history is out 2 games. You think the Spurs don't want Horry? Especially with Oberto's inconsistencies and Elson just plain sucking? I mean don't get me wrong the Spurs got the better trade off but I wouldn't call missing 2 games being thug behavior. The NBA screwed themselves with the dumb ass rule. They couldn't let the fact that Diaw and Amare stepped on the court slide because so many players have been suspended for much less or for doing the same exact thing. The NBA put themselves in a corner.

Bookit · 05-16-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

How is it awarding thuggish behavior? The Spurs most clutch player and one of the most clutch players in NBA history is out 2 games. You think the Spurs don't want Horry? Especially with Oberto's inconsistencies and Elson just plain sucking? I mean don't get me wrong the Spurs got the better trade off but I wouldn't call missing 2 games being thug behavior. The NBA screwed themselves with the dumb ass rule. They couldn't let the fact that Diaw and Amare stepped on the court slide because so many players have been suspended for much less or for doing the same exact thing. The NBA put themselves in a corner.

Do you really believe that? Horry is a spare. So is Diaw. But. losing Amare will be huge and the NBA should be embarrassed for losing a star in this league over such a stupid rule. What, players can't have emotion after a dirty play. Stoudamire didn't get into a fight or anything. He merely ran out and quickly ran back. Dumbest rule ever. Now we get a playoff game without Amare. Great job NBA.

MavsX · 05-16-2007, 09:32 AM

if the spurs when this series by having 2 suns players not playing....., Thats going to be some BS,

Dtownsfinest · 05-16-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookit

Do you really believe that? Horry is a spare. So is Diaw. But. losing Amare will be huge and the NBA should be embarrassed for losing a star in this league over such a stupid rule. What, players can't have emotion after a dirty play. Stoudamire didn't get into a fight or anything. He merely ran out and quickly ran back. Dumbest rule ever. Now we get a playoff game without Amare. Great job NBA.

Say what you want about Diaw and Horry but they're both solid role players for their teams. Like I said, the Spurs got the better trade off. Not denying that. But you can't all of a sudden change a rule because of a First Team NBA'er is involved. Haslem got suspended a game last year for throwing his mouth piece to the ground. The NBA screwed themselves over with the rule. They have to abide by them. You know how many players have been suspended for doing what Amare did? And what? All of a sudden they're suppose to disregard that? What does that say for the NBA? Amare is an idiot. I'm glad he's suspended because he's committed so many dumb plays in this post season. I know he came into the league out of high school but he's about 23 or 24 now. What Amare and Diaw did is exactly what the NBA is trying to prevent. Players getting involved in scuffles on the court. I'd expect more from Amare who feels the Spurs are dirty. Why play into their hands then?

Bookit · 05-16-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What Amare and Diaw did is exactly what the NBA is trying to prevent. Players getting involved in scuffles on the court. I'd expect more from Amare who feels the Spurs are dirty. Why play into their hands then?

If Amare got into a scuffle then he should be suspended. I agree. But he didn't even come close.

alexamenos · 05-16-2007, 01:09 PM

Admittedly a minority opinion here, but I think the league did the right thing on the Stoudemire and Diaw suspensions.

The "don't leave the bench" rule is in place to prevent small altercations from turning into major melees.

Small altercations can turn into major melees when a few players from the bench wonder into the midst of the altercation. Their intent may not be to fight, but instead to back their guy or even to try to calm things down. But things don't necessarily work out this way. A player may not go onto the court with the intent of fighting, but if nothing else he provides one more opportunity for the opposing team to start a fight as well as a practical motivation for the other team's bench to clear. Hence, it's not a player's intent to fight, but his presence on the court that can start a greater escalation of what might otherwise be a relatively small fracas.

Players know the consequences of the rule. Assistant coaches know the consequences of the rule. Nobody is unaware of the ramifications of transgressing the rule. Consequently teams (vis a vis coaches and cooler-headed teammates) provide their on enforcement of the rule--witness the Suns assistants desparate attempts to contain Stoudemire the other night -- you can bet next time they'll be even better prepared to prevent anyone from entering the court.

Thus the rule means small altercations don't become big melees, provided of course that the league is consistent in doling out the stipulated punishment.

--the rule is effective;
--the rule is well known;
--players and teams are reasonably responsible for their on actions;
--the league should put upholding the rules above entertainment value....

jthig32 · 05-16-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Admittedly a minority opinion here, but I think the league did the right thing on the Stoudemire and Diaw suspensions.

The "don't leave the bench" rule is in place to prevent small altercations from turning into major melees.

Small altercations can turn into major melees when a few players from the bench wonder into the midst of the altercation. Their intent may not be to fight, but instead to back their guy or even to try to calm things down. But things don't necessarily work out this way. A player may not go onto the court with the intent of fighting, but if nothing else he provides one more opportunity for the opposing team to start a fight as well as a practical motivation for the other team's bench to clear. Hence, it's not a player's intent to fight, but his presence on the court that can start a greater escalation of what might otherwise be a relatively small fracas.

Players know the consequences of the rule. Assistant coaches know the consequences of the rule. Nobody is unaware of the ramifications of transgressing the rule. Consequently teams (vis a vis coaches and cooler-headed teammates) provide their on enforcement of the rule--witness the Suns assistants desparate attempts to contain Stoudemire the other night -- you can bet next time they'll be even better prepared to prevent anyone from entering the court.

Thus the rule means small altercations don't become big melees, provided of course that the league is consistent in doling out the stipulated punishment.

--the rule is effective;
--the rule is well known;
--players and teams are reasonably responsible for their on actions;
--the league should put upholding the rules above entertainment value....

Totally agree with this. This is not the first time teams have had significant losses in the playoffs due to this rule.

The rule has had the desired effect, and you can't overlook simply because of the circumstances.

It sucks if you are a Suns fan, but it's the reality.

bernardos70 · 05-16-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Watching some more replays tonight...if you have four assistant coaches out in front of you, who hold you back, have you really left the vicinity of your bench?

The entire bench moved forward. Stoudemire moved more forward, because he was sitting down the bench. But no one was anywhere near close to entering the fracas.

NBA is shooting themselves in the foot by their interpretation of this rule. In doing so, they are making themselves look bad--when the whole purpose of the rule (which worked in this case, I believe) was to try to improve their image.

I just don't get it.

The only thing wrong I see here is that Duncan didn't get suspended as well. A precedent has been set for this sort of situation. David Stern didn't push those players into the court, they know what they're in for when they do that.

Suspending those two players is one step towards the NBA being more consistent. Or are we now gonna pick and choose when to apply each rule?

So once again, that Duncan didn't get suspended is the only thing one can rightfully bitch about.

EDIT: Looks like alexamenos beat me to it.

xavier · 05-16-2007, 01:33 PM

Total BS ruling....... might aswell hand over the championship to the spurs! How many times this week have they been looked at for playing dirty and who is feeling the negative effect of it! Not fair to the Suns at all!

jthig32 · 05-16-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

The only thing wrong I see here is that Duncan didn't get suspended as well. A precedent has been set for this sort of situation. David Stern didn't push those players into the court, they know what they're in for when they do that.

Suspending those two players is one step towards the NBA being more consistent. Or are we now gonna pick and choose when to apply each rule?

So once again, that Duncan didn't get suspended is the only thing one can rightfully bitch about.

EDIT: Looks like alexamenos beat me to it.

Duncan didn't get suspended because there was no altercation.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 05-16-2007, 04:20 PM

We lost Terry in a crucial playoff game and Stackhouse in an NBA Finals game for just a hard foul. That could be a reason we lost the Finals. Maybe the Terry game was justified but I never agreed with the Shaq foul justifying a game suspension. So no sympathy for the Suns from here.

RingTheBell · 05-16-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Duncan didn't get suspended because there was no altercation.

If there was no altercation why did he come off the bench? His legs fall asleep and he wanted to stretch them?

jthig32 · 05-16-2007, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RingTheBell

If there was no altercation why did he come off the bench? His legs fall asleep and he wanted to stretch them?

There was the possibility of one, I guess.

dude1394 · 05-16-2007, 06:58 PM

I agree with the ruling and furthermore really agreed with stern making dan patrick sound like the idiot he is.

capitalcity · 05-16-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xavier

Not fair to the Suns at all!

V2M · 05-16-2007, 08:32 PM

League's best referee couldn't survive in a fight against the Spurs...

birdsanctuary · 05-16-2007, 08:42 PM

Stupid A$$ Stoudimire and Diaw, the Suns deserve to lose the series for being so stupidly baited into that one by Horry....

Jackasses! Flat out jackasses! Still the NBA marketing team will ensure that they win game 7...

Nash13 · 05-16-2007, 10:15 PM

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Rules are not meant to be broken. They get off the bench, they get suspended. It's that simple. The rules shouldn't be bent b/c of Amare or Diaw.

mary · 05-18-2007, 11:29 PM

A somewhat disturbing thread on a phoenix message board.

I hope we've never been that bad.

Flacolaco · 05-18-2007, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

A somewhat disturbing thread on a phoenix message board.

I hope we've never been that bad.

lol that is bad. I guess they don't have much in the way of community standards there.

And that really makes you appreciate all of our pretty signatures

mary · 05-18-2007, 11:58 PM

Quote:

One of these days, some kid is going to be playing ball, get kicked in the head, and end up in a wheel chair. And the kid who kicked him is going to say that he learned to play basketball by watching the NBA championships. I hope that Stern has to pay out gazillions for sitting by idly as careers and peoples' health is tossed around like a cheap pair of dice. The whole idea of atheletes as role models is entirely undermined by this kind of garbage. Maybe we should hire a few hockey players. I liked the three brothers in that Paul Neuman movie.

This one gave me a chuckle.

That's right, because of this playoff series - children are going to end up in wheelchairs.

MavsX · 05-19-2007, 12:16 AM

nice work david stern!