2019 Mavs Free Agency

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I highly doubt it. I’d even put money on it. If we do get in there it will more than likely be because of KP being healthy and another year for Luka. Brogdon and Beverly aren’t game changers.

This is kinda of the point. No one is stating Brogdon is going to rain down 25 a game. Or Beverley becomes more than a really good role player.

We are building around two cornerstone players. Doncic developing into a top 5 player in the league. KP into a top 3 PF.

The math here is simple. A front loaded Brogdon contract allows us future flexibility. Brogdon at 22-25 million in year 3-4 with a cap rising 3-5% a year is not bad. Especially when he will still be a young 29/30 (college seasons vs NBA).

Look at all the teams strapped with horrible contracts. Each team was sold that these veterans were worth the money. Now teams like the Pelicans have to unload generational talents because they couldn’t stay flexible enough to build contenders. Bottom line, most of these contracts become albatross contracts that teams have to pay heavily to get rid of.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Naw.....it won’t be from excitement lol.

Only 30mill in cap space and about 5-10 roster spots to fill and you'd honestly be disappointed by two amazing starters? Both amazing defenders. Brogdon shot 43% from three. Beverly shot 40%.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Kemba is a poor fit on almost every level. I like him for us more than Vuc but not enough to justify a 4 year commitment at max dollars.

Brogdon at 22 a year is a much better deal. He is younger, doesn't need the ball, extremely efficient, and versatile defensively. We continue to attempt top 5 3’s in the league with Brogdon + KP and we are going to win games.

I've been thinking about the above post for awhile.

I suspect it might be accurate for the Mavericks. You probably couldn't get Beverley and Brogdon. That would be a dream. So let's stick with just Brogdon for a minute.

Let's say the Mavs come in between 20-25m a year for 4 years. You may have overpaid from Brogdon, but here's two questions.

Are the Mavs better off with Brogdon over Walker?
Are the Mavs better off with Brogdon over Beverley?

My personal choices here would 1. Brogdon, 2. Beverley (but it's almost a tie with Walker)and 3. Walker. In the end, I can't help feeling better about Brogdon than either of the other two. I realize Walker is the best player, but his "value" at that price point seems to overstate his case. Walker's cap space is almost like a competitive weakness - like bad defense or a poor three-point shot. I count off because of that contract.

The only caveat here is that i think Brogdon will be more in demand than Beverley and perhaps more than Walker since Walker will have fewer suitors. I tend to think Beverley might be more likely here than the other two.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I highly doubt it. I’d even put money on it. If we do get in there it will more than likely be because of KP being healthy and another year for Luka. Brogdon and Beverly aren’t game changers.

I'd be interested in this bet..but the line will be too long.

[JJP]

I found this interesting.

12 mins ago – via Twitter GeryWoelfel
Gery Woelfel: Sources said the Bucks have been frantically trying to trade Ersan Ilyasova and the $14 million (two years) left on his contract. Asked what Bucks wanted for Ilyasova, an NBA exec said, ‘”Anything.”

I watched this guy in playoffs, and I'd take him and his contract in a heartbeat. He was playing behind Giannis, so he was only averaging about 18-20 minutes a game. But for 7m a year and two years left on his contract, he solves a lot of issues. He's a versatile big man that can stretch the floor with perimeter shooting. He's a decent rebounder. He's really cheap and can come off the bench possibly allowing Dwight Powell to start if necessary. He's a veteran. And best of all, his contract comes off the books the same time as Hardaway... during a year when a lot of big name free agents are going to be available.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Marc Stein@TheSteinLine

What we know (we hope) just 48 hours before the start of NBA free agency:

*Kemba to Boston

*Klay stays

*Kyrie to Brooklyn -- unless the Lakers miss on Kawhi and swoop in

*Khris M stays -- unless Milwaukee's five-year offer is less than expected

*Vucevic stays with Orlando

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I'd be interested in this bet..but the line will be too long.

More money for me then.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

Nets are giving Russell the qualifying offer, so he’s now a restricted free agent.

I thought they would. They can always rescind the offer if they need the cap space

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by JJP

I found this interesting.

12 mins ago – via Twitter GeryWoelfel
Gery Woelfel: Sources said the Bucks have been frantically trying to trade Ersan Ilyasova and the $14 million (two years) left on his contract. Asked what Bucks wanted for Ilyasova, an NBA exec said, ‘”Anything.”

I watched this guy in playoffs, and I'd take him and his contract in a heartbeat. He was playing behind Giannis, so he was only averaging about 18-20 minutes a game. But for 7m a year and two years left on his contract, he solves a lot of issues. He's a versatile big man that can stretch the floor with perimeter shooting. He's a decent rebounder. He's really cheap and can come off the bench possibly allowing Dwight Powell to start if necessary. He's a veteran. And best of all, his contract comes off the books the same time as Hardaway... during a year when a lot of big name free agents are going to be available.

Last time I checked Mavs still have biggest need in rebounding and defense. Ilyasova does not solve any of those issues whatsoever. I like Ilyasova and he is good for what he brings but he is still a filler, not a need.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

TMac on his podcast predicted Diallo ends up in Dallas. A small move, but Diallo is a nice piece to a young core.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Thebo

Last time I checked Mavs still have biggest need in rebounding and defense. Ilyasova does not solve any of those issues whatsoever. I like Ilyasova and he is good for what he brings but he is still a filler, not a need.

Our number 1 need is 3 point shooting imo. Followed by defense & rebounding.

Gotta be able to shoot 3s in today's NBA.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Thebo

Last time I checked Mavs still have biggest need in rebounding and defense. Ilyasova does not solve any of those issues whatsoever. I like Ilyasova and he is good for what he brings but he is still a filler, not a need.

It's not about a single skill. You're solving a problem for your second team if you have Dwight Powell starting. You're not going to get a serviceable big man for 7m a year who can play 20 minutes a game. You pay almost nothing for him.

This allows you to play big with SFs or PGs.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by JJP

It's not about a single skill. You're solving a problem for your second team if you have Dwight Powell starting. You're not going to get a serviceable big man for 7m a year who can play 20 minutes a game. You pay almost nothing for him.

This allows you to play big with SFs or PGs.

The other side of this argument though is that, if you do that for Milwaukee, are you saying goodbye to Brogdon when you have a decent shot at him currently? If so, why help the Bucks keep their entire core like that when we would love to have one of those pieces they are struggling to figure out how to keep at the marginal benefit of Ilyasova?

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

The other side of this argument though is that, if you do that for Milwaukee, are you saying goodbye to Brogdon when you have a decent shot at him currently? If so, why help the Bucks keep their entire core like that when we would love to have one of those pieces they are struggling to figure out how to keep at the marginal benefit of Ilyasova?

Of course you don't do that deal if it impacts a bigger player. But read the quote. There may be ways of getting this guy that will literally cost no more than maybe a couple of draft picks that you just got from Detroit two weeks ago. He's got just as good of stats as Max Kleber, but I'm NOT suggesting we quit on Kleber. I'm suggesting we add a serviceable big man with playoff experience for a pretty cheap price.

If it impacts a Brogdon or Beverley signing, then of course you don't do that deal.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by JJP

Of course you don't do that deal if it impacts a bigger player. But read the quote. There may be ways of getting this guy that will literally cost no more than maybe a couple of draft picks that you just got from Detroit two weeks ago.

If it impacts a Brogdon or Beverley signing, then of course you don't do that deal.

But doesn't it on the Brogdon side? It potentially gives the Bucks the flexibility to keep all of their guys (of which Brogdon is one). Surely that's why they're frantically trying to free up that room just before Sunday. I mean, they could go way over the cap for all of them, but I think they are trying hard to avoid that and, if they can't, we may be able to pull him away.

[Bryan_Wilson]

I'd rather save those 2nd rounders to dump Lee than use them on Ersan. With or without the implications of Brogdon.
Edit- And in this situation you would ask the Bucks to give us 2nds not send ours.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Illyasova makes no sense with a front court of KP/DP/Maxi/Diallo. Rather go for Brogdon.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I'd rather save those 2nd rounders to dump Lee than use them on Ersan. With or without the implications of Brogdon.
Edit- And in this situation you would ask the Bucks to give us 2nds not send ours.

Milwaukee is TRADING him. They have to have something back. And of course, you let the Mavs do the Lee thing if they can.

Guys, please. I trust the front office here. I'm suggesting that this player is serviceable and a good fit as a Mavs player for 18 minutes a game. I'm NOT suggesting that we don't do a dozen other things that might be better than this.

This is about the player, the contract, and front office priorities. As fans, we don't know what the Mavs can do with certain contracts (Lee) and we don't know how the timing shakes out. All we as fans know is that we have money to spend and a roster to fill out.

Think of it this way. Getting this guy may allow for more flexibility in signing more firepower on the wings. They can't spend every bit of money on wing players, because they have to have another big man. They just do. So you can get this guy for nearly nothing and then feel better about your other acquisitions.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Illyasova makes no sense with a front court of KP/DP/Maxi/Diallo. Rather go for Brogdon.

Jesus Christ. This is not about about Brogdon vs Illasova. That's a no brainer. It's the exact opposite of that. This is about ADDING a big man that may be more than Merji, but a lot less than almost anyone else out there. You have to have another big man for this team. Instead of getting a Mirotic for 12m a year, you get get Illasova for 7m and spend more money on Brogdon. By adding a big man cheap, you increase your odds at the wing players.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by JJP

Jesus Christ. This is not about about Brogdon vs Illasova. That's a no brainer. It's the exact opposite of that. This is about ADDING a big man that may be more than Merji, but a lot less than almost anyone else out there. You have to have another big man for this team. Instead of getting a Mirotic for 12m a year, you get get Illasova for 7m and spend more money on Brogdon. By adding a big man cheap, you increase your odds at the wing players.

Mil is trying to clear Illyasova so that they can keep Brogdon...

[JJP]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Mil is trying to clear Illyasova so that they can keep Brogdon...

OK, if that's what you were saying, I apologize. It wasn't clear to me.

While you may be absolutely right, it's entirely possible that the Mavs are pretty certain that Brogdon will not be in play. Maybe the Mavs are going for Bogdanovic or another wing. Maybe they've got Beverley targeted. Maybe it's just the cost of Brogdon. We don't know.

As I said, I'm not saying we shouldn't do 10 other things that might be better. We are investing in firepower, not players. I'm saying with the right combination of money, we can invest in a front line player. If we are in the market for Brogdon and getting this player excludes him, we don't do it. I get it. But there's several other options if the front office doesn't think Brogdon is in play.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

This is kinda of the point. No one is stating Brogdon is going to rain down 25 a game. Or Beverley becomes more than a really good role player.

We are building around two cornerstone players. Doncic developing into a top 5 player in the league. KP into a top 3 PF.

The math here is simple. A front loaded Brogdon contract allows us future flexibility. Brogdon at 22-25 million in year 3-4 with a cap rising 3-5% a year is not bad. Especially when he will still be a young 29/30 (college seasons vs NBA).

Look at all the teams strapped with horrible contracts. Each team was sold that these veterans were worth the money. Now teams like the Pelicans have to unload generational talents because they couldn’t stay flexible enough to build contenders. Bottom line, most of these contracts become albatross contracts that teams have to pay heavily to get rid of.

If Brogdon is my 4th or 5th best player I'm good. ITs a huge concern if he's my 3rd best player and after that is Patrick Beverly. We should be using this money wisely. Doing that is on the same path as giving Barnes and Parsons......these aren't the type of players I want to be tied to in big money for 4 years. I don't want to lose cap flexibility because of the caliber of these players.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

No problem, tensions are high with free agency. I pretty much have a chronic headache now with all of this stuff.

I agree though to keep an eye on all of the players being jettisoned in the name of cap space/cap issues. And honestly, that might be where the Mavs can make the best moves. Diallo, Beverly, and two other really good role players is actually starting to look decent. I'd support Brogdon, but would he REALLY make a bigger impact than filling in big time needs? That's where I'm at with him. I know his efficiency and his fit, but I don't agree with how he would impact the roster more than some other plan B/C moves. Not for the price. If he was 11 mil a year, sure. 20-25 mil a year? Hey, if the FO believes it...do it. If not, I'm not gonna lose sleep. This damn headache though...

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

No problem, tensions are high with free agency. I pretty much have a chronic headache now with all of this stuff.

I agree though to keep an eye on all of the players being jettisoned in the name of cap space/cap issues. And honestly, that might be where the Mavs can make the best moves. Diallo, Beverly, and two other really good role players is actually starting to look decent. I'd support Brogdon, but would he REALLY make a bigger impact than filling in big time needs? That's where I'm at with him. I know his efficiency and his fit, but I don't agree with how he would impact the roster more than some other plan B/C moves. Not for the price. If he was 11 mil a year, sure. 20-25 mil a year? Hey, if the FO believes it...do it. If not, I'm not gonna lose sleep. This damn headache though...

Exactly my stance. I Think a lot of people want to throw in all our resources in Brogdon so we don't get left empty handed.

Mind you..........the Mavs can also save that cap space(sign guys to 1 year deals) and offer a team some flexibility who want to get from under a all star's contract. If we are going to be left with Brogdon and Beverly's of the world......I'd rather find a trade partner.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Only 30mill in cap space and about 5-10 roster spots to fill and you'd honestly be disappointed by two amazing starters? Both amazing defenders. Brogdon shot 43% from three. Beverly shot 40%.

Two amazing starters? Brogdon is a solid starter but I'd rather start Brunson and let him progress than sign Beverley. I don't understand the insistence of getting him.

I like BRogdon. I don't even care about his shooting from 3. He offers more to us than just 3 point shooting. But its a mistake to sign him to a max big deal. If he's our 4th best player on the team I'm down.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Exactly my stance. I Think a lot of people want to throw in all our resources in Brogdon so we don't get left empty handed.

Mind you..........the Mavs can also save that cap space(sign guys to 1 year deals) and offer a team some flexibility who want to get from under a all star's contract. If we are going to be left with Brogdon and Beverly's of the world......I'd rather find a trade partner.

I think that's the rub. Is Brogdon worth the max? That will ultimately reside with the Mavs Front Office and whichever way they go, I'll assume they know more than me. He's awful young to get the max.

But here's the other thing.

We are going to overpay for decent support in which to surround our franchise players. I think that's pretty much set in stone now. How do we role the dice?

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by JJP

I think that's the rub. Is Brogdon worth the max? That will ultimately reside with the Mavs Front Office and whichever way they go, I'll assume they know more than me. He's awful young to get the max.

But here's the other thing.

We are going to overpay for decent support in which to surround our franchise players. I think that's pretty much set in stone now. How do we role the dice?

If the Bucks let Brogdon walk though.....do we trust their stance on him or do we trust the Mavs stance on overpaying for him?

[AO41]

As a bench guys who might be cheap, I would not mind George Hill if we don’t end up with any of the top name guards.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Two amazing starters? Brogdon is a solid starter but I'd rather start Brunson and let him progress than sign Beverley. I don't understand the insistence of getting him.

I like BRogdon. I don't even care about his shooting from 3. He offers more to us than just 3 point shooting. But its a mistake to sign him to a max big deal. If he's our 4th best player on the team I'm down.

Brogdon makes us better than any free agents but kawhi and if his head is on straight kyrie. This is not saying relative to what he will make. The current mavs + brogdon are a better team than the current mavs + kemba. This would obviously not be true if klay or kd were healthy and I could buy an argument for butler I just don't want butler the person around the kids

[JJP]

This just from Zach Lowe's column at ESPN:

"Bucks restricted free agent Malcolm Brogdon will lose a suitor if the Celtics ink Walker. The Suns, Bulls, Mavericks and Pacers could potentially extend Brogdon an offer sheet but some teams are concerned about his foot issues.

The Mavericks are not looking to sign any high-level free agents."


My guess now is that the Mavs aren't interested in overpaying for Brogdon either.

Also, AO41 just brought up George Hill. He'd be a nice backup addition to our rotation. I like him. He's been injured a lot, but still looks good when he's healthy.

[pocman]

Originally Posted by AO41

As a bench guys who might be cheap, I would not mind George Hill if we don’t end up with any of the top name guards.

The fit with Doncic is actually nice (defense and off the ball 3pt shooting). I would actually consider him as a starter for MLE if that allows us to spend money on starting wing and C (e.g Bogdanovic + Dedmon).

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by JJP

This just from Zach Lowe's column at ESPN:

"Bucks restricted free agent Malcolm Brogdon will lose a suitor if the Celtics ink Walker. The Suns, Bulls, Mavericks and Pacers could potentially extend Brogdon an offer sheet but some teams are concerned about his foot issues.

The Mavericks are not looking to sign any high-level free agents."


My guess now is that the Mavs aren't interested in overpaying for Brogdon either.

Also, AO41 just brought up George Hill. He'd be a nice backup addition to our rotation. I like him. He's been injured a lot, but still looks good when he's healthy.

I don't think Brogdon falls under the type of free agents he says. He did say Mavs are looking at "mid tier not big fish". I think that would mean no to Kemba Jimmy Tobias Vuc and Al and the obvious Kawhi and gang. But that they are in on Brogdon Bojan Pbev Redick Dedmon etc.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I don't think Brogdon falls under the type of free agents he says. He did say Mavs are looking at "mid tier not big fish". I think that would mean no to Kemba Jimmy Tobias Vuc and Al and the obvious Kawhi and gang. But that they are in on Brogdon Bojan Pbev Redick Dedmon etc.

Well maybe. It might also mean no to max money.... especially if they are worried about a foot injury.

Edit: With a foot injury, maybe Brogdon's price goes down.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Brogdon makes us better than any free agents but kawhi and if his head is on straight kyrie. This is not saying relative to what he will make. The current mavs + brogdon are a better team than the current mavs + kemba. This would obviously not be true if klay or kd were healthy and I could buy an argument for butler I just don't want butler the person around the kids

He doesn't make us better than Hortford, Walker, Butler........now none of these guys are probably even a option to begin with but I'm not going to use my cap space just because Brogdon is the best of the bunch. I'd look into some type of trades. Brogdon isn't the scorer Walker is and if its about defense I can look at Danny Green for a 1/4th of the cost.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I don't think Brogdon falls under the type of free agents he says. He did say Mavs are looking at "mid tier not big fish". I think that would mean no to Kemba Jimmy Tobias Vuc and Al and the obvious Kawhi and gang. But that they are in on Brogdon Bojan Pbev Redick Dedmon etc.

Brogdon is not like the rest though. He's about to get paid. He may be mid tier but pay-wise he's going to get around the same as Vucevic and Tobias.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Brogdon is not like the rest though. He's about to get paid. He may be mid tier but pay-wise he's going to get around the same as Vucevic and Tobias.

I can see him getting similar money to Vuc, not Tobias. He will get 7+ mill more than Brogdon.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Continuing my small love affair with Diallo. His 6/5 stats are a bit misleading. He basically averaged 8/8 from February on. This is such a win-win-win no brainer typical Mavs move that I really hope gets done. He is a fit, a need, a perfect age, and will be cheap. Oh and guess what his NBA comparison was when drafted? Kenneth Faried. Yes please.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

He doesn't make us better than Hortford, Walker, Butler........now none of these guys are probably even a option to begin with but I'm not going to use my cap space just because Brogdon is the best of the bunch. I'd look into some type of trades. Brogdon isn't the scorer Walker is and if its about defense I can look at Danny Green for a 1/4th of the cost.

Yes he does with the possible exception of butler. 1) he is an absolutely elite defender. He should have made the all NBA defensive team and he has a lot of position flex defensively. He can guard 1-3 and can switch on 4s credibly but can't guard them over a whole game. He's a better defender than all of them, including butler. 2) he's by far the best shooter available since klay is hurt. He's a career 41% 3pt shooter and a career 90% ft shooter. 3) he's used to playing off the ball. Outside of horford this is one of his biggest strengths. The third star in a big 3, is always going to be marginalized touches wise. Luka and kp are both so high usage it's going to be an adjustment playing with each other let alone a third ball dominant player ala kemba or butler. Brogdons ability to be productive without touching the ball every possession is a plus. 4) he can't be attacked in games at the highest level on either end. This is mostly true of jimmy too though he isn't a great shooter. But kemba? Can attack his d, vuc same thing.

[JJP]

After reading the Zach Lowe article thoroughly, I have some comments.

1. This is a huge article about nearly every free agent and team, and yet there's barely one or two sentences on Dallas. While most of us are starved for information, I have to hand it to the Mavs front office for going dark.

2. Dewayne Dedman might be affordable and could work with someone else like Beverley

3. Waiting might be the best game to play. Teams will be shuffling their rosters quickly, and trades will happen fast. If the Mavs are opportunistic, players we don't see now may become available for better value.

[saclare]

I think this board is collectively overestimating what Brogdon will get and underestimating what his impact and fit would be on this team. It's creating quite a divide and was a very interesting few pages to read through.

Love the fire and passion though, it's awesome and a fun time/place to be.