Something I have an issue with - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 04-20-2003, 09:43 AM

I have heard/read similar comments to the comment coming up several times since the game ended. Personally, I read comments such as this and ask myself "what game are they watching?"

<< He did almost all of his damage from outside, too, where it is almost impossible to double-team. He stroked jump shot after jump shot after jump shot. >>

..from blackistone in the DMN Sunday

At least 24 of dirk's points were either in the paint or as the result of going to the basket (getting to the free throw line).
At least another couple (maybe three) of dirk's baskets weren't in the paint but were post up shots from just outside the paint.

Yes, he was effective from the inside but he was also INCREDIBLY effective at both driving and down on the low blocks.

When will people get a clue? He has the all around game and can utilize them versus virtually any team in the NBA.

It's just amazing. What game are they watching?

Member · 04-20-2003, 12:22 PM

I agree completely

And when Bill Walton says he's never seen dirk do anything else but catch and shoot, and people who say all dirk can do is shoot and nothing else and that he is just a pure shooter. I mean come on. There are way too many dirk-haters out there who need to watch more games of him to understand what he's really about and what he can do.

LRB · 04-20-2003, 12:57 PM

<< It's just amazing. What game are they watching? >>

I think that's just it Murph, they don't really watch the game. It's obvious that the people making these dumbass quotes aren't doing their homework. Most likely all they do is watch a few highlights, but then they aren't even true to that. They have a preconceived notion about Dirk and the Mavs to a lesser degree. They just ignore whatever doesn't meet this preconceived picture.

seelenjaeger · 04-20-2003, 02:13 PM

NBA is about labels.

Artest, Martin, Wallace are labelled bad boys, and they get their share of pounding for it.
Raef, Bradley, Ostertag, are labelled stiff whities, and they get freaky touching fouls.
Shaq is labelled unstoppable and gets his respect from commentators and refs.
Peja, Dirk are "just shooters", and so they are called.

It takes alot to escape this label, and some never do (Ewing, Malone, ... will always be labeled as "the ones without a ring" ...).

And not many media guys have enough courage to admit their bias.

Rhylan · 04-20-2003, 03:21 PM

<< And not many media guys have enough courage to admit their bias. >>

Nor do they do enough research on their subjects to ever find out how wrong they are. It's lazy reporting/commentating.

LRB · 04-20-2003, 03:24 PM

<<

<< And not many media guys have enough courage to admit their bias. >>

Nor do they do enough research on their subjects to ever find out how wrong they are. It's lazy reporting/commentating. >>

So we have biased and lazy sports media. Who would've thunk it? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Murphy3 · 04-20-2003, 04:05 PM

the national media is usually a couple of years behind the curve when it comes to overcoming such labels.. the amazing this is that i hear it from the local media.. they aren't supposed to be as behind the curve as the rest of the nation..

Drbio · 04-20-2003, 04:12 PM

The DFW local media is a joke. We have not one reporter worth recognizing (or reading for that matter). It's sickening to read some of the crap that gets printed on the DMN and FWST sports pages.

Usually Lurkin · 04-20-2003, 04:59 PM

I gotta agree with the media bashing. For the most part it's right on.
One big exception: Sean Elliot.

TwoDeep3 · 04-20-2003, 05:24 PM

Well now...we have heard from the peanut gallery.

But on page 14C of the Dallas Morning News Sports Page there is a shot chart.

And in that shot chart I count 3 shots in the paint by Dirk that fell. And two that did not. Being generous I also count two misses in what can only be loosely termed the post. And one make.

Yet I count 9 baskets he made that were not in the paint or post and six random misses that were not in either if these areas.

So where are these 24 points in the paint I see spoken about in previous posts?

Oh wait, it must be the biased local media skewing the chart so they can make a claim that isn't true.

FilthyFinMavs · 04-20-2003, 05:36 PM

<< Well now...we have heard from the peanut gallery.

But on page 14C of the Dallas Morning News Sports Page there is a shot chart.

And in that shot chart I count 3 shots in the paint by Dirk that fell. And two that did not. Being generous I also count two misses in what can only be loosely termed the post. And one make.

Yet I count 9 baskets he made that were not in the paint or post and six random misses that were not in either if these areas.

So where are these 24 points in the paint I see spoken about in previous posts?

Oh wait, it must be the biased local media skewing the chart so they can make a claim that isn't true. >>

Oooooo Twodeep. You've done it now. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

LRB · 04-20-2003, 05:44 PM

TwoDeep3 you really need to be very very careful in making a post like you just did. It might lead people to believe that you can't count or can't read or both. Reading the shot chart carefully you will see that Dirk had a total of 6 makes all taken within the painted area and had another 2 misses within the painted area. You could throw in another 2 makes taken right on the edge of the paint, one at the FT line and another from the left baseline on the border of the paint. Dir had another 4 misses that bordered the paint as well. So lets see a total of 14 of his 27 shots were either in or bordering on the paint. 8 of his 16 makes were either in or bordering on the paint. In addition the majority of his 10 made FT's probably came from either postup action or driving to the basket. This puts it very close to 24 pts. Maybe he didn't get quite that much, but It's very conservative to say at least 20 pts came through drives, postups, or fouls resulting from those 2 actions. So looking at the cold hard facts and comparing them to the media's opinion's, it certainly does look like some bias is involved or the much of the media is functionally illiterate as well as mathmatically challenged.

mavsfanforever · 04-20-2003, 06:06 PM

On NBA2Night Fred Carter was all praises for Dirk. He called him a BAD BOY atleast 10 times. I am sure once we get past the 2nd round he will start getting more recognition.

Murphy3 · 04-20-2003, 07:27 PM

twodeep, look to the left and right sides..it shows shots that are made directly under the basket..

you're only looking at the shots that it shows on the court..but, if you will pay the slightest bit of attention, you will notice that shots within a couple feet of the basket are put out to the side of the diagram.

now, I know it might be difficult for you to understand this ..but with a little practice, you can probably get it.

now, you'll notice that it still leaves dirk at 22 points...well, there is another shot that is right up against the lane right on the baseline.. now, this shot could have gone either way, but since part of one of his shoes were in the lane, i went ahead and counted it. is that ok with you?

Murphy3 · 04-20-2003, 07:30 PM

8 makes... - 16 points
8 of his ten made free throws, - 8 points

24 points.

yet, another couple of shots that weren't necessarily that close to the lane but were post ups.. turn around jumpers.

however you slice it, dirk was very, very effective from down low, mid range, and from deep

LRB · 04-20-2003, 08:34 PM

<< 8 makes... - 16 points
8 of his ten made free throws, - 8 points

24 points.

yet, another couple of shots that weren't necessarily that close to the lane but were post ups.. turn around jumpers.

however you slice it, dirk was very, very effective from down low, mid range, and from deep >>

Well unless your biased and lazy. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

David · 04-20-2003, 09:02 PM

Dirk hit 4 out of 5 from the three point line, to account for 12 of those 46 points. That may have given the impression that he shot a lot from outside. When you hit 80% from out there, it can make an impact. I don't recall all that many shots taken when he started from the low blocks. They ran that pick and roll a lot but Dirk got the ball farther out than the blocks. I recall a put-back of a rebound and a drive for a layup, also.

Murphy3 · 04-20-2003, 09:07 PM

david, it'd have to hit you in the head pretty damn hard before you noticed anything

Rhylan · 04-20-2003, 09:13 PM

I can't believe that people on this board are so f'n stubborn that they'll sit here and argue about something that can be proven by watching game tape. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Murphy3 · 04-20-2003, 09:23 PM

rhylan, i'd say dirk had to have received the ball 12-15 times down on the low blocks during the game.. maybe a bit more..

he had a couple of nice assists and two occasions where he dished the ball down low..didn't get the assist but the player made it to the free throw line

LRB · 04-20-2003, 09:28 PM

<< I can't believe that people on this board are so f'n stubborn that they'll sit here and argue about something that can be proven by watching game tape. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] >>

Or barring having a game tape handy, they can spend $1.50 and get today's copy of the Dallas Morning News, turn to page 14 C, and consult the shot chart there.

Drbio · 04-21-2003, 12:11 AM

wow. unbelievable.

TwoDeep3 · 04-21-2003, 01:02 AM

Well boys, silly me. I read the chart wrong.

I was completely wrong.

See how that works Murphy?

Live it, learn it, love it.

David · 04-21-2003, 05:35 AM

<< david, it'd have to hit you in the head pretty damn hard before you noticed anything >>

Fortunately, for you, you have a never ending supply of nothing in that bag of yours. I'm just hoping you remember to close it after you post, so it doesn't do like a black hole and consume the entire universe. Or somesuch.

Murphy3 · 04-21-2003, 08:31 AM

david and twodeep..two of a kind..
it's unfortunate

Twodeep, like most people I try to have a well thought out opinion before i post it somewhere..or a well thought out point.

It's amazing..doing so actually keeps me from being wrong way more often than not.
I will admit when i'm wrong..ask KG or MFFL..but, I actually make a concerted effort to formulate an intelligent opinion before throwing it out here.

You should look into that.

David · 04-21-2003, 08:10 PM

Here is the quote from the Blackistone column. Notice the quote is attributed to Mo Cheeks, the Blazers coach. I wonder what game HE was watching? Obviously not the same game that the Murphy Brotherhood was watching.

"Asked why the Blazers didn't double-team Nowitzki more often, Cheeks said that wasn't an option.

"Most of his shots came from the perimeter," Cheeks said. "It's a little tough to double him out there. It wasn't like he was making shots down on the box where you can run a (second) guy down there."

The Mavs were running the high pick and roll, most of the time. Dirk DID back down to the low blocks, on occasion, but not NEAR as much as some people would have us believe. He seldom was allowed to START OUT in the low blocks.

DrtyFlthyNstYnQuik31 · 04-21-2003, 08:11 PM

<< Here is the quote from the Blackistone column. Notice the quote is attributed to Mo Cheeks, the Blazers coach. I wonder what game HE was watching? Obviously not the same game that the Murphy Brotherhood was watching.

"Asked why the Blazers didn't double-team Nowitzki more often, Cheeks said that wasn't an option.

"Most of his shots came from the perimeter," Cheeks said. "It's a little tough to double him out there. It wasn't like he was making shots down on the box where you can run a (second) guy down there."

The Mavs were running the high pick and roll, most of the time. Dirk DID back down to the low blocks, on occasion, but not NEAR as much as some people would have us believe. He seldom was allowed to START OUT in the low blocks. >>

yep he was red hot from the outside...

Murphy3 · 04-21-2003, 08:15 PM

david, watch a game every once in awhile. your ignorance is unacceptable. Dirk received the ball down in the low blocks a minimum of 13 times... he also had a couple of opportunities from spins out of the low blocks.

drtyflthy, yes, he was red hot from the outside..but he was also "red hot" from the inside as well.

when you hit 16 of 27 shots, there's a good chance you're hot no matter where you're shooting the ball from.

DrtyFlthyNstYnQuik31 · 04-21-2003, 08:30 PM

<< david, watch a game every once in awhile. your ignorance is unacceptable. Dirk received the ball down in the low blocks a minimum of 13 times... he also had a couple of opportunities from spins out of the low blocks.

drtyflthy, yes, he was red hot from the outside..but he was also "red hot" from the inside as well.

when you hit 16 of 27 shots, there's a good chance you're hot no matter where you're shooting the ball from. >>

yep, i taped the game.. dirk was on FIRE that game..

David · 04-21-2003, 08:54 PM

Blackistone provided a quote from the Blazers coach about the reason he didn't double team Dirk more. I'm thinking, whether I was watching the game or not, Mo Cheeks SURELY was, as was his coaching staff. They were the ones ATTEMPTING to cover Dirk. The game I watched, Nash and Dirk ran the pick and roll, over and over. They were up high when they started off. I have the game on tape. Go back and watch it. Until then, who are you going to believe, ME, or your lyin' eyes?

TwoDeep3 · 04-22-2003, 01:46 AM

Here is an opportunity for you to admit you were wrong, Murph.

We all wait with anticipation.

Or do you now know more than Cheeks, as well?

David · 04-22-2003, 06:02 AM

<< Here is an opportunity for you to admit you were wrong, Murph.

We all wait with anticipation.

Or do you now know more than Cheeks, as well? >>

That's a little bit more than nothing, so you can't expect him to have that in his bag.

Murphy3 · 04-22-2003, 08:08 AM

just watch the tape or look at the shot chart.
well, you've already proven that you're incapable of understanding the shot chart.. so, i don't know why you'd be able to understand the game if you were to watch it

kg_veteran · 04-22-2003, 09:08 AM

<< Here is an opportunity for you to admit you were wrong, Murph.

We all wait with anticipation.

Or do you now know more than Cheeks, as well? >>

TwoDeep - This post makes absolutely no sense. Why should Murphy admit that he was wrong? He was right. And you've already admitted that. It has nothing to do with anybody claiming to know more than a coach, despite your attempt to make that the issue.

kg_veteran · 04-22-2003, 09:12 AM

<< Blackistone provided a quote from the Blazers coach about the reason he didn't double team Dirk more. I'm thinking, whether I was watching the game or not, Mo Cheeks SURELY was, as was his coaching staff. They were the ones ATTEMPTING to cover Dirk. The game I watched, Nash and Dirk ran the pick and roll, over and over. They were up high when they started off. I have the game on tape. Go back and watch it. Until then, who are you going to believe, ME, or your lyin' eyes? >>

David, I don't know how you figure that this proves anything. A statistician sat at courtside and counted every single shot that was taken, and recorded it on a shot chart. That was their ONLY job. I'll take their word on the issue over the word of a guy who was coaching. He can't possibly have a better recollection. Nice try, but perhaps YOU need to go back and watch the tape, so that you can try and discredit the statistician. Until then, it'd be better if you didn't embarrass yourself further, because it's rather obvious that your vitriol has displaced your common sense.

Hoopsmeister · 04-22-2003, 03:18 PM

From the Pippen article

"But he's got some stuff inside that can be very effective. He showed Saturday he can score inside as well as out. And [from a defender's standpoint] he's such a great shooter, you probably want him going inside instead of shooting from the outside."

So who you going to believe Pippen or Cheeks? the statistician or Cheeks? Cheeks as giving a defensive answer to the type of aggressive question a coach gets after a loss--not a well thought out meditation after he spent hours reviewing the tape. Frankly, at this point, it seems the actual issue is people who just don't want to admit Murph is right even if he is saying the sky is blue.

Big Boy Laroux · 04-22-2003, 03:32 PM

dammit. i'll say it. Murph is right.

for once. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Murphy3 · 04-22-2003, 03:45 PM

thanks for the votes of confidence bbl and hoops... of course, i'm sure you'd still lik to deck me in the face

Ummmmm Ok · 04-22-2003, 03:59 PM

<< of course, i'm sure you'd still like to deck me in the face >>

Actually that line is around the corner... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

David · 04-22-2003, 07:42 PM

<<

<< Blackistone provided a quote from the Blazers coach about the reason he didn't double team Dirk more. I'm thinking, whether I was watching the game or not, Mo Cheeks SURELY was, as was his coaching staff. They were the ones ATTEMPTING to cover Dirk. The game I watched, Nash and Dirk ran the pick and roll, over and over. They were up high when they started off. I have the game on tape. Go back and watch it. Until then, who are you going to believe, ME, or your lyin' eyes? >>

David, I don't know how you figure that this proves anything. A statistician sat at courtside and counted every single shot that was taken, and recorded it on a shot chart. That was their ONLY job. I'll take their word on the issue over the word of a guy who was coaching. He can't possibly have a better recollection. Nice try, but perhaps YOU need to go back and watch the tape, so that you can try and discredit the statistician. Until then, it'd be better if you didn't embarrass yourself further, because it's rather obvious that your vitriol has displaced your common sense. >>

The shot chart proves, what? Where he shot the ball. Does it show where he received the ball? No, only where he shot it. I remember at least one rebound and put back for a bucket. I remember at least one time where they tried the lob. I'm not saying he NEVER started in the low blocks. I'm saying he and Nash ran the high pick and roll a bunch and he hit 4 out of 5 from the 3 point stripe. Saying Dirk played in the low blocks as much as Nothing Boy says, is just untrue. If the Brotherhood chooses to believe his inanity, help yourselves.

The Head Coach of the Blazers says that Dirk was shooting mostly from outside. He had a courtside seat as did his assistants.