The Obama Boom.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by aquaadverse

Bull. The number one reason Carter was elected was Nixon and his record. You can keep talking about running against the establishment but Watergate and impeachment and our tail between the legs exit from Vietnam got him elected. If Ford hadn't pardoned Nixon he would have won. If the campaign had lasted a month or so longer Ford would have won. Ford had caught Carter after starting down 33 points.

why do you believe that the public blamed nixon for vietnam? are you unaware that nixon ran (and won) in 68 as the candidate that would get us out of vietnam?

carter's lead vanished bcause he made public comments about pardoning draft deserters and the famous "lusted in my heart" interview.

ford was just as inept, with the ridiuclous assertion that there was no domination of eastern europe by the soviets.

if the pardon of nixon was the reason ford lost, why then did ford almost catch carter while he was steadfast in saying the pardon was the right thing to do?

It wasn't the recession. It was the abrupt crash and knee jerk fear of people losing half the value of their 401Ks that helped Obama. Prior to that he had zero anything but big promises. McCain was gaining ground.

"it wasn't the recession. It was..people losing half the value of their 401Ks"??? so it wasn't the economy tanking, it was the results of the economy tanking?
okey dokey....that makes a ton of sense.

It took a nuclear financial event to move Obama ahead for good. If more time had remained and we started talking about a 1 trillion dollar stimulus bill instead of the 300 billion one he maintained he wanted until after the election he may have lost. Obama ran his whole campaign on the theory you can't prove a negative. He had no record. He had never run a business, he had never served in the military. He became a millionaire writing books and a short political career.

uh huh, that's why he overcame the clinton machine. right.

Not really. She was front and center during the stimulus bill gyrations and took the heat for the amount and the content. She went away when it passed. She will again be visible when she is cracking the whip ramming legislation through or saying something stupid. This is not a difficult concept.

it's way too difficult to follow you on pelosi, first you say she "Pelosi take the most of the heat while she seems content with the role of keeping the agenda left of center and consistent with traditional Dem values", now you say she "went away".

What's obvious is you have difficulty admitting that someone can look at the same situation as you and listen to your opinion and disagree with your conclusions. I tried to counter you points with links and and why I thought my conclusions had merit. You typed condescending comments with vague pronouncements. It would seem you want a food fight. I don't.

Have a nice day.

surprisingly, you seem to be disturbed that someone challenges your views by providing history and facts.

if you don't like being challenged and defending your comments, you shouldn't post in an online forum. if you want to take your ball and go home, sobeit.

thanks for playing.

[aquaadverse]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

why do you believe that the public blamed nixon for vietnam? are you unaware that nixon ran (and won) in 68 as the candidate that would get us out of vietnam?

carter's lead vanished bcause he made public comments about pardoning draft deserters and the famous "lusted in my heart" interview.

ford was just as inept, with the ridiuclous assertion that there was no domination of eastern europe by the soviets.

if the pardon of nixon was the reason ford lost, why then did ford almost catch carter while he was steadfast in saying the pardon was the right thing to do?



"it wasn't the recession. It was..people losing half the value of their 401Ks"??? so it wasn't the economy tanking, it was the results of the economy tanking?
okey dokey....that makes a ton of sense.



uh huh, that's why he overcame the clinton machine. right.



it's way too difficult to follow you on pelosi, first you say she "Pelosi take the most of the heat while she seems content with the role of keeping the agenda left of center and consistent with traditional Dem values", now you say she "went away".



surprisingly, you seem to be disturbed that someone challenges your views by providing history and facts.

if you don't like being challenged and defending your comments, you shouldn't post in an online forum. if you want to take your ball and go home, sobeit.

thanks for playing.

Cutting and pasting from Wikipedia articles without crediting them is pretty "Bush".

You obviously have no idea of what went on during Nixon-Carter era if you're making comments asking why Nixon was blamed for Vietnam and yammering about Ford pardoning and the effect on the campaign.

There's a reason every single credible account mentions the pardon as the biggest reason Ford was unable to catch Carter. Nixon was hated by many in a way that puts the current W detractors in the irritated category.

I remember being at a friend's when some of the footage from the fall of Saigon and his Mom bursting into tears. My friend's brother was a casualty of that war along with 50,000 others and the way it ended made the deaths pointless. Ford was in the big chair when it ended, but no one mentions him with Vietnam because he couldn't do much about it. Congress refused to approve money for it. The public wouldn't accept carpet bombing which was about all that was left. The pardon didn't just piss people off about Watergate, it also made the prosecution of war crimes impossible.

Hillary had no military, business or executive experience either. The difference is she tried to act like she it. "Ready from day one " and her other slogans implying she was a co-president which was ridiculous. He defeated the Clinton machine because of what he symbolized and having no record to attack. You want to ignore her history and the well documented polarizing effect she had prior to the campaign, fine. He was the highly touted backup quarterback who had never taken a professional snap when the current started was despised

Pelosi was front and center during the Stimulus Bill, flew to Europe when it was done and attention turned to the housing market, the ever falling financial market and Obama being unable to find senior staff and cabinet members who pay their taxes. I really don't see why this is so difficult for you understand. Unless there is legislation being debated or she is attached to something like this stupid time wasting blathering about military aircraft flying her back and forth. It is perfectly logical and consistent to talk about her responsibilities and profile in that context.

I have no problem being challenged and I enjoy discussions where reasonable people debate. You gave me neither.

Yikes.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by aquaadverse

Cutting and pasting from Wikipedia articles without crediting them is pretty "Bush".

??? earth to space, please come back....what the heck are you referring to? from what I read you are prone to "cut and paste" from wiki, which isn't as much "bush" as exposing your lack of knowledge.

You obviously have no idea of what went on during Nixon-Carter era if you're making comments asking why Nixon was blamed for Vietnam

wow, you're a trip.

you posted

The number one reason Carter was elected was Nixon and his record. You can keep talking about running against the establishment but Watergate and impeachment and our tail between the legs exit from Vietnam got him elected.

to which I pointed out that nixon was elected in '68 on a platform of getting the us OUT of vietnam, so no, just the opposite, nixon was not "blamed for vietnam",

and yammering about Ford pardoning and the effect on the campaign.

ok, let's review...

you posted

Ford pardoning Nixon sealed a loss. and also Ford pardoning Nixon sealed a loss.

yet when comfronted with the clear contradiction of that statement by the fact ford almost made up his poll deficit by election day IN SPITE OF not backing off, and refusing to address the pardon (that means the public didn't really put the pardon high on the reasons to not support ford), all you do is ignore history and call my facts "yammering"??

you're a piece of work...

There's a reason every single credible account mentions it as the biggest reason he didn't.

no, that isn't true.

Hillary had no military, business or executive experience either. The difference is she tried to act like she it. He defeated the Clinton machine because of what he symbolized.

"what he symbolized"? so his policies, which were different than clinton's, his extraordinary talents in communincatin, thise didn't matter...it was just obama's symbolism that brought him th nomination?

bs. it wasn't due to clinton "tried to act like she it" (whatever that means) obama won because he ran a well coordinated campaign with strong policy positions the voters gravitated to, he gave a sense of comfort to the voters based on his candor and communication skills.

Pelosi was front and center during the Stimulus Bill, flew to Europe when it was done and attention turned to the housing market, the every falling financial market and Obama being unable to find senior staff and cabinet members who pay their taxes.

uh, the stimulus bill was passed because of "the housing market, the every falling financial market", so they are interrelated. pelosi is still around, but it was YOUR statement that "Obama is....letting Pelosi take the most of the heat while she seems content with the role", and when mentioned that she is "invisible" you do a backtrack.

I have no problem being challenged and I enjoy discussions where reasonable people debate. You gave me neither.

Yikes.

when you are challenged you huff and puff like a child, and when shown to be in error you either a) ignore the facts (like when shown the multiple obama interviews), b) backtrack (such as on pelosi), or c) dig in your heels with your position, refusing to answer the contradictions shown (such as nixon on vietnam and ford on the pardon).

you may truly believe you "enjoy...debate", but you don't actually debate. you just offer your opinions in lieu of facts. that is not debate, that's self promotion.

the emporer has no clothes....