Nellie Press Conference - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Charlie Brown · 12-15-2003, 11:34 PM

in the press conference, Nellie basically said:

1) Tony Delk is the full-time backup point guard and Travis Best is out of the rotation
2) Josh Howard is now definitely in the rotation even when Michael Finley comes back; he'll basically take all the backup minutes at the shooting guard spot and eat into Finley's minutes a bit while also taking minutes at SF
3) He only had confidence in six players tonight; it basically seems like he's going to start shortening his rotation a lot, limiting minutes to players like Best, Fortson, Bradley, and Najera

so i'm excited about his comments on howard. but i'm not so sure about whether delk should be the backup point. i think we should trade for another backup point who can actually create for others.

regardless, here's how i see the minute rotation now

PG Steve Nash 38mpg Tony Delk 10mpg
SG Josh Howard 30mpg Michael Finley 18mpg
SF Michael Finley 20mpg Antoine Walker 20mpg Josh Howard 8mpg
PF Antoine Walker 20mpg Antawn Jamison 20mpg Dirk Nowitzki 8mpg
C Dirk Nowitzki 32mpg Antawn Jamison 8mpg Eduardo Najera 8mpg

Total

Dirk Nowitzki 40mpg
Antoine Walker 40mpg
Michael Finley 38mpg
Josh Howard 38mpg
Steve Nash 38mpg
Antawn Jamison 30mpg
Tony Delk 18mpg
Eduardo Najera 8mpg
Najera/Fortson/Bradley/Best/Daniels scrap left over minutes

Bayliss · 12-15-2003, 11:40 PM

I'm not sure you'll see Dirk average 40 minutes anytime soon. Whether he deserves it or has earned it is beside the point. Nellie feels as of now that Dirk is "Rasheed Wallace of the 2000 Trail Blazers"....

I'm not sure why exactly Delk needs to be the point guard. And if he is the point guard then he should play him there and not as the shooting guard. But I digress.

Chiwas · 12-15-2003, 11:41 PM

Good news and bad news.

But the good news seem to be a lot more important.

Jamisonite · 12-15-2003, 11:47 PM

and good news is that we can start to work on our chemistry. And start working on a trade to move out the other guys

Charlie Brown · 12-15-2003, 11:52 PM

despite the trade "rumors", i would really like to keep both finley and jamison here . . . finley, more for loyalty and chemistry reasons, and jamison, more because i think his offensive rebounding, bench production is still necessary to our team . . . he appears more comfortable in his backup role . . .

i'd really like to trade one or a combination of delk/bradley/best/daniels/abdul-wahad/najera/fortson and try to get either

brent barry/calvin booth from seattle (not likely, although brent barry is expendable)

or

earl watson/lorenzen wright from memphis (more probable, but i think west loves earl watson - not sure)

and plug these guys into our rotation in place of delk and najera . . .

MavsFanFinley · 12-16-2003, 12:00 AM

So...we're looking at a starting lineup of Dirk/Walker/Howard/Finley/Nash from here on out?

And depending on Delk and Jamison as the main guys off the bench? Others will be used as seen fit?

grndmstr_c · 12-16-2003, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
So...we're looking at a starting lineup of Dirk/Walker/Howard/Finley/Nash from here on out?

And depending on Delk and Jamison as the main guys off the bench? Others will be used as seen fit?

I think that was CB's guess. It's unlike Nellie to be so organized and forthcoming with his rotation. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Charlie Brown · 12-16-2003, 12:07 AM

it is more my guess, but if you heard the press conference, i think you might make similar assumptions and chuck cooperstein (or whoever this guy is on the post-game show on 103.3) is thinking the same thing (tightening rotation, josh continuing be integral part, no more best) and considering that nellie is hardly using fortson and bradley anymore, except when they play teams like the lakers, i don't think my assumptions will be far off . . .

Bayliss · 12-16-2003, 12:07 AM

Quote:

So...we're looking at a starting lineup of Dirk/Walker/Howard/Finley/Nash from here on out?

And depending on Delk and Jamison as the main guys off the bench? Others will be used as seen fit?

Nope. Because when we play the Lakers... we'll use Fortson for most of the game and he'll start. When we play a tough minded rebounding team, we'll start Delk.

Nellie will go through 4-5 more starting combinations. The only thing that will remain constant is that Dirk will play out of position a lot. Delk will play out of position a lot. And it will kill us if we use it in the playoffs. The reason we won in LA is because the two things I mentioned above never happened.

MavKikiNYC · 12-16-2003, 12:11 AM

Is it kind of early to be tightening the rotation? Is this a reactive move to try to get them on track? That's the only way to justify it. Otherwise, they're going to be pretty spent come April.

Either way, it looks like Nellie is determined to screw Dirk's game all to hell.

Charlie Brown · 12-16-2003, 12:13 AM

yes, Dirk will play out of position . . .

but in listening to the press conference, i think Delk will stop playing shooting guard when finley comes back . . . Nellie said there's hardly enough minutes at the backup SG and SF spots and wants to give Howard as much minutes as he can . . . my thinking is that Howard may start off on the bench when Finley comes back . . . but i bet Nellie continues to get frustrated with Najera/Bradley/Fortson at the center spot (which is a bit unfair to Najera/Fortson as neither are centers, but that won't deter Nellie from criticizing them; Bradley's another story), he'll keep Dirk at the center spot and start Josh Howard.

on one hand, i don't mind, because i think more josh howard is good for the mavs as he's really the only player that makes a difference consistently without the ball in his hands but i really don't want dirk at center either . . . the rotation i created was my guess as to what nellie would do, but i don't necessarily agree with it . . .

Bayliss · 12-16-2003, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Is it kind of early to be tightening the rotation? Is this a reactive move to try to get them on track? That's the only way to justify it. Otherwise, they're going to be pretty spent come April.

Either way, it looks like Nellie is determined to screw Dirk's game all to hell.

His game is already that way. Nellie has a way of trying to make a very good player inmto something they are not.

As for the rotation. If it tightens anymore, I guess he can't bench anyone.....

Charlie Brown · 12-16-2003, 12:29 AM

tightening the rotation has its pros and cons . . .

it will define roles better, but like you say, it will tire out our stars come playoff time, particularly nash . . .

i'm not certain that nellie will tighten it, but that's what it sounded like, and that's what 103.3 post-game show commentators are assuming as well . . .

however, in defense of Nellie and other coaches in the NBA these days . . . it appears more and more that GMs and owners are keeping coaches on too short of a leash . . . and forces coaches to focus too much on short-term results rather than long-term . . .

hence,

1) Nellie doesn't run enough plays through Dirk, since his passing is not fully developed yet, although in the long-run, continually developing Dirk's passing game during the regular season will only help the Mavs in the long run as he is the one player that gets double teamed the most . . .

2) Nellie plays his stars too many minutes, while it may help win games in the regular season, it will tire them out in the playoffs . . . but Nellie can't think that far just yet

3) Nellie keeps short leash on players he doesn't have confidence in like rookies and players like Bradley . . . i'm really annoyed at Nelson's utilization of Bradley . . . when Bradley makes one mistake, Nelson takes him out instead of allowing him to play through his mistakes . . . in the long-run, i think Bradley is integral to the team's success [he's like the team's Gollum. he's a bit mysterious, been there forever, seems to have jeckyl and hyde personality on the court, and as Gandalf says, 'Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over' and i feel Bradley has a GOOD part to play on the Mavs (sorry for Rings allusion, excited for premiere tomorrow)] but Nellie needs to have a bit more patience on guys like Bradley in the regular season and give him more of a chance to contribute before deciding whether he's fit to contribute during the playoffs . . . luckily, Howard came out of Nellie's doghouse, because he's been playing like an All-star the past couple games and took advantage of Finley's absence

in sum, Nellie needs to coach for the long-run, not just for this season, but for next season; he needs to focus on identifying roles and developing them, instead of playing game by game to fit his creative fancy . . .

just too bad that the NBA these days doesn't foster long-term development

MavsFanFinley · 12-16-2003, 02:35 AM

Notebook: Rookie works way into lineup
Injuries have allowed Howard to show Mavs he's got game

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

The Mavericks' playing rotation has officially changed with rookie Josh Howard solidly in it and Travis Best and perhaps others out.

Coach Don Nelson said after Monday's 111-94 win over Toronto that Howard, who is working on a string of top-shelf outings, has earned his place in the starting lineup, even when veteran-shooting guard Michael Finley returns from a toe injury.

"I'm here to tell you, Mavs fans, that we got a player in that kid," Nelson said. "He's definitely carved his way into the rotation. Even when Mike comes back, he's going to be on the floor somewhere."

Nelson envisions Howard and Finley in the starting lineup with Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki and Antoine Walker – assuming all of them can stay healthy.

That leaves Antawn Jamison and Tony Delk as the primary players off the bench, along with one or more of the three centers. Nelson said Delk has earned the minutes behind Steve Nash at point guard, leaving Best as the odd man out in the backcourt.

"It's disappointing because I know I can still add a dimension to this team with my speed," said Best, who has struggled with his shot this season. "But as long as this team wins, if it requires me bringing energy from a seat on the bench, that's what I'll do."

Best, like everybody else in the locker room is not surprised by Howard's ascension up the depth chart.

Said Howard: "It's nice [to be in the rotation], but I can't let it go to my head. You never know what to expect. I made some mistakes in this game, and Nellie let me know about it."

But he also had 14 points and a team-best 14 rebounds, which make up for a lot of mistakes.

kg_veteran · 12-16-2003, 10:02 AM

I think when you boil it down, Nellie is simply more comfortable playing guys who can handle the ball and make smart decisions even if he's "going small" than he is playing your traditional big guys who can't do some of those things.

The rebounding of Walker and Howard makes it possible for Nellie to play this lineup without losing the battle on the glass.

I agree with Kiki that it's a bit early to tighten up the rotation, unless we want everyone to be spent come April. That said, compare this year's team/rotation to last year's team:

Nowitzki, Nash, and Finley remain starters.
LaFrentz vs. Walker
Howard vs. Griffin
Delk vs. Van Exel
Jamison vs. Najera
Fortson/Bradley vs. Bradley

I think you've upgraded at every spot except the Delk vs. Van Exel comparison, and the bench overall is better.

I don't really want Dirk at center. He clearly doesn't play his best ball at that position. But the more I think about it, he played a bunch of center last year, with Najera as the PF anyway.

This rotation might work:

Nowitzki 30 - Fortson/Bradley 18
Walker 35 - Nowitzki 8 - Jamison 5
Howard 20 - Jamison 28
Finley 33 - Howard 15
Nash 32 - Delk 16

I'm not thrilled about it, and teams are going to shoot a high percentage against us, but we'll have a good rebounding squad that should force a lot of turnovers. If Nellie intends to use this strategy, he's really going to have to watch Nash's minutes, because he can't be playing 40 every night.

Drbio · 12-16-2003, 10:07 AM

You have Nash at 32 a night. I can live with that.

DID YOU KNOW?
The Mavs are the second best rebounding team in the NBA as of right now? Amazing.

madape · 12-16-2003, 10:09 AM

Nelson only had confidence in six players, but there were two regular rotation players out with injury (Finley and Bradley).

I think this means bad, bad things for Best and Fortson, probably Najera as well. Best may not get a second chance. Even though we need him to perform, we can't afford to be patient with him. If we execute a trade before the deadline, Best will be the most likely candidate to be involved.

Nelson really wanted Fortson to do well. I think he really like the idea of a strong, physical presence on the inside. But Fortson has been a disappointment in many aspects. I think he'll still get spot minutes, and probably a couple of starts, but it will only be because of a total lack of depth at the five spot.

Najera has looked absolutely terrible at center this year. I think he can be effective at his natural position, small forward, but the arrival of Jamison, Walker, and now Howard mean that there are almost no minutes to be had there for Eddie. He's been fighting a losing battle for time at the pivot. He could be out of the rotation completely when Bradley gets healthy.

kg_veteran · 12-16-2003, 10:51 AM

Just for purposes of discussion, do you like the rotation I posted above better, or do you like something like this better?

Bradley 20 - Fortson 15 - Nowitzki 13
Nowitzki 25 - Walker 23
Walker 12 - Jamison 28 - Howard 8
Finley 33 - Howard 15
Nash 32 - Delk 16

To me, the real question is -- do you prefer more minutes out of Bradley and Fortson, or more minutes out of Howard and Jamison? You're still going to have to use Bradley and Fortson more against teams like LA and San Antonio, but otherwise I probably go with the first rotation.

Max Power · 12-16-2003, 11:20 AM

An eight man rotation has a lot of benefits - mainly it gives every player consistent playing time and they learn their role on the team. I like it.

We'll still see Najera and Daniels as occasional energy boosts plus we'll have the occasional blowout where everyone gets their rest.

kg_veteran · 12-16-2003, 11:37 AM

I think an eight man rotation is great, as long as Nash gets adequate rest and Nellie decides who the regular 8th man will be.

I saw a quote from the FWST today where Nellie talked about playing the backup PG 14 mpg, which means 34 mpg for Nash. That's more than he played last year, so I suppose we shouldn't count on Nash getting much rest.

As for the 8th guy, I personally think it should be Bradley, because the one thing he does really well is something that none of the other 7 in the rotation do that well.

sike · 12-16-2003, 11:48 AM

kg, dont mind the 8 man, but do you really think that even when ealthy Bradley will get the minutes.....he seems to be back in the doghouse...for no fault of his own????

Chiwas · 12-16-2003, 12:38 PM

For his future faults. Nellie is a wizard.

V · 12-16-2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I think an eight man rotation is great, as long as Nash gets adequate rest and Nellie decides who the regular 8th man will be.

I saw a quote from the FWST today where Nellie talked about playing the backup PG 14 mpg, which means 34 mpg for Nash. That's more than he played last year, so I suppose we shouldn't count on Nash getting much rest.

As for the 8th guy, I personally think it should be Bradley, because the one thing he does really well is something that none of the other 7 in the rotation do that well.

This may not be entirely true... I expect Nash will get his rest & Walker will run point for 4-5 minutes a night with at least two of Delk/Finley/Howard on the floor for defensive matchups.

kg_veteran · 12-16-2003, 02:03 PM

If Delk's on the floor, he's considered the backup PG, regardless of who's running the offense.

If you're suggesting the Mavs might play with Finley and Howard in the backcourt and Walker handling the ball at the SF spot, well, they haven't done that yet this year. And frankly, I think they'd have some problems consistently getting the ball up the court in that scenario.

grndmstr_c · 12-16-2003, 02:58 PM

I'm all for tightening up the rotation, but mainly in the sense that I'd like to see Best out of it, Delk playing primarily as the backup PG rather than at the SG spot, and Fin playing shorter minutes (32-35) at SG, with his stints at SF severely limited. I still want to see Bradley and Fortson involved. Bradley's our only shotblocker, and Fortson has proved his worth to me in certain, specific matchups (eg., Curry, Shaq, Malik Rose). With a healthy frontcourt, something we haven't had lately, Eddie should be a last resort in the majority of situations. Basically that makes for a primary seven man rotation (Nash, Delk, Fin, Howard, AJ, AW, Dirk) with Shawn and Fortson thrown in in an irregular sort of way. There's enough positional flexibility there that I don't think that would require us to overplay anyone. And hopefully, in tightening up more, as guys learn their roles, we'll blow teams out more often and get to rest some of our main guys. Maybe if we're lucky Best could remember how to play after a few months of nothing but garbage and pine, assuming we don't trade him, of course.