Better defensively?????? REALLY????

[TheKid]

Now I know people think I'm bitter on the Mavericks but I'm more concerned than anything else. I've read SEVERAL articles about how the Mavs are better defensively now but I don't see it. The Mavs have added Doug Christie, who ONCE was a good defensive player but NEVER a guy who shut people down. His best years were in Sacramento and that was a team that gave up just as many points as the Mavericks did. People can say he's an upgrade, defensively he's an upgrade over Finley BUT Fin wasn't getting the tough assignments anymore. Do the Mavericks really think Christie at 35 (older than Finley) will make that much more of an impact defesively than Howard and Daniels?????

From what I can tell the Mavericks have the SAME team this year that they had last year adding Christie, and personally I don't think they were so much better last year defensively. Now I know people think because they didn't allow as many points defensively last year as they have in the past, they're better, however, was that a result of better defense or just the fact that they didn't run as much without Nash or Nelson running the show?

Also as we've seen over the past four or five years, the Mavericks figured out how to win during the regular season and while that's fun, unfortunately as a Mavericks fan, I'm ready for more than reaching the playoffs. They need to figure out how to slow down San Antonio and Phoenix in the west and a way to shut down the Eastern conference powerhouses. In my opinion, adding Christie still doesn't get the Mavericks over that hump. Any thoughts?

[grndmstr_c]

1) The Mavs were improved defensively last year. They were top 10 in the league in points allowed per 100 posessions, which controls for pace.

2) I've always felt Christie's strength as a defender is team defense. We'll find out what he's still got, but if he's healthy he'll probably be a better defender than Fin, Stack or Quis. His signing should upgrade the defense regardless of whether he or Josh are drawing the tough assignments. And while Sac has been an up and down team defensively, I believe they led the league in opponents' fg% one of those years when they were legitimately contending.

[FilthyFinMavs]

I still stick by that Christie is not here as a Finley replacement. He's gonna get whatever minutes Stack, Josh and Quis don't get and that's how it should be. I think Christie already had 1 foot out the door but thought he could atleast collect one more paycheck before leaving the game. I'm glad to see Mavs fans so confident about Christie but i'm not. He's even more of a question mark then Finley was and yea I know the guy was a great defender 2 years ago but things can change in a season. Just another question mark I have with this Mavs organization. Not really sure why we acquired and not really sure if he has anything left in the tank but hopefully he does. Hopefully this year the majority of the minutes at the 2 and 3 spot will belong to Quis and Josh.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
1) The Mavs were improved defensively last year. They were top 10 in the league in points allowed per 100 posessions, which controls for pace.

2) I've always felt Christie's strength as a defender is team defense. We'll find out what he's still got, but if he's healthy he'll probably be a better defender than Fin, Stack or Quis. His signing should upgrade the defense regardless of whether he or Josh are drawing the tough assignments. And while Sac has been an up and down team defensively, I believe they led the league in opponents' fg% one of those years when they were legitimately contending.

Not only that, but the ideal of Christie being a strong defender is almost as powerful as the facts. The Media always likes to pick and choose what is and what isn't sometimes. If the Mavs were suddenly renownd as a defensive team, maybe then then players would listen and start believing it themselves. A false ideal though can do as much damage as good though. Then again a false ideal can also lead to good things, like this ideal that the Mavs are always somehow doomed every year by the media. Our team fuels off of being underrated.

I just think it is interesting to compare the facts vs. the ideal of things sometimes. I hope it is a fact that Christie is the defender we so sorely need. However, Orlando got him for that very purpose, and it failed miserably.

[grndmstr_c]

Actually, Doug had a positive defensive +/- in both Sac and Orlando last season. It was his offense that was the problem.

[LRB]

I think the biggest question mark defensively for the mavs, at least during the regular season, will be replacing Bradley. Bradley was huge for the Mavs last season during the regular season, and did a fantastic job filling in for Damp when Damp was out injured. I don't think that it's much of a stretch to say we might not have had home court advantage in the 1st round if we didn't have Big Shawn to step in last year. All we have behing Damp is 3 totally unproven projects. If we have to go big stretches with Dirk or KVH at the 5, I think the Mavs will struggle just to come close to being as good defensively as last year.

[Arne]

2003-2004 the Dallas Mavericks averaged 97.2 PPG (#5 in the league) and their opponents averaged 96.1 PPG (#19 in the league).

2004-2005 the Dallas Mavericks averaged 102.5 PPG (#8 in the league) and their opponents averaged 96.8 PPG(#14 in the league).

The important thing is not the fact that they hold down the opponents to few points. The important thing is that they hold down the opponent to fewer points than what they themselves score. Therefore the difference between the points scored by us and the points scored by opponents matters and in that category we ranked #4 in the league with a difference of +5.7 PPG in 2004-2005. In 2003-2004 they had a difference of +1.1 PPG.

Then we have the normal, not really important stats like SPG and BPG:

2003-2004 they ranked #3 in Steals, #4 in Blocks, #24 in Defensive Rebounds.

2004-2005 they ranked #4 in Steals, #8 in Blocks, #8 in Defensive Rebounds.

Although the defensive rebounds are surely the most important thing of those, since #24 was really, really bad considering that they were a Run and Gun team, which means that there should have been a lot of rebounds to get.

Than we have another category of stats which is as important as the "Mavs PPG - Opp. PPG difference"-stats. Which is the category of FG-and 3pt-Percentage.

2004-2005 we ranked #7 in FG-Defense by holding opponents to 43.8 FG-percentage and ranked #1 in 3pt-defense by holding opponents to 33% 3pt-percentage.



Those were just some stats to prove that we've really gotten better defensively last year. But,I see things a little differently than you (The Kid) regarding the defensive potencial of this team. Defense is not all about the players that defend but foremost about how they are teached to play defense and there mindset. You should keep in mind that this team has been coached by Don Nelson who just didn't like defense. Nelson was all about offense, miss-matches and so forth. But Avery Johnson has improved the team defensively and will keep on coaching defense to them for a whole preseason-camp.

Ofcourse every player will improve his defensive-skills as soon as a coach preaches him defense every single practise, but the most important thing is that team-defense can improve nearly limitless. It's all about keeping the guys together and making them trust each other.

Just look at the pistons. Ben Wallace isn't a great one-on-one defender, he's a great Helpside-defender. Rasheed Wallace hasn't been famous for his defence before he came to the Pistons. Richard Hamilton wasn't famous for his defense when he was still in Washington.

They all grew with the team. Defense is above all about the team and not about which players you acquire during offseason. Just look at Dirk Nowitzki, it's his first summer after Avery Johnson took over and we've seen him shut down player during games of our German national team. There was this one game a few days ago, in which he had five blocks and five steals in only 28 minutes and looked a whole lot more agile on his feet and seemed to have quicker hands. And believe me, I've seen a whole lot of games of him on the national team and he never managed to put up such stats and such a performance defensively ever before.

[jacktruth]

I still stick by that Christie is not here as a Finley replacement. He's gonna get whatever minutes Stack, Josh and Quis don't get and that's how it should be. I think Christie already had 1 foot out the door but thought he could atleast collect one more paycheck before leaving the game. I'm glad to see Mavs fans so confident about Christie but i'm not. He's even more of a question mark then Finley was and yea I know the guy was a great defender 2 years ago but things can change in a season. Just another question mark I have with this Mavs organization. Not really sure why we acquired and not really sure if he has anything left in the tank but hopefully he does. Hopefully this year the majority of the minutes at the 2 and 3 spot will belong to Quis and Josh.

I think you are right. I think Christie will be used the least of them. They will probably try to keep him fresh for playoffs.

Christie is a downgrade from Finley. I don't know how you argue otherwise. Finley is a more than capable scorer and did his share of defensive improvement last year. Recall that it was Finley, not Howard that played the best defense on TMAC last year. In fact, I think TMAC pretty much ate Howard up.

Howard's defensive prowess in not fully proven. Before I'm lanced for that. . .I'm yet to see Howard shut down the great scorers in this league (Kobe, TMAC). Yes, I think he is capable, but I know that Buckner, Bell, and Griffin could shut down those players and Howard is not there yet.

The comments about team defense are right on. We can only evaluated Howard's defensive abilities after a team defense atmosphere is established and maintained.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
1) The Mavs were improved defensively last year. They were top 10 in the league in points allowed per 100 posessions, which controls for pace.

2) I've always felt Christie's strength as a defender is team defense. We'll find out what he's still got, but if he's healthy he'll probably be a better defender than Fin, Stack or Quis. His signing should upgrade the defense regardless of whether he or Josh are drawing the tough assignments. And while Sac has been an up and down team defensively, I believe they led the league in opponents' fg% one of those years when they were legitimately contending.

1) They were just as good in '03, which I know comes as a surprise to some.

2) Sac had, I think, the #2-ranked defense in the league that year. Which I KNOW comes as a surprise to many. They even outranked the mighty Spurs!

Still and all, I couldn't care less how much they manage to improve themselves next year on defense, if they accompany that with a large enough drop in offense to negate the defensive improvement.

I really don't know what to expect from this bunch from next year. I tend to think that they will slow it down on offense, to help in the defensive effort. But then I hear them talk about still running and scoring the ball as always, but while playing stifling defense.

See, that's what worries me. It sounds to me like they want to eat their cake and have it too. If your designs aren't realistic in the first place, it's not that likely that the finished product is going to look good.

[MrCheerios]

Howard has all the skills, but has yet to prove that he can be a lockdown defender. I think he will.

As for Christie, he's been a great defender, but different from the molds of Artest and Bowen. Those two guys are very physical. They will grab you, shove you, and push you out of your comfort zone all before you even get the ball. They intimidate you with their physicality and are pretty good at staying in front of you too. The refs look the other way when it comes to the bumping and shoving. Christie is different. He's much more finesse. He quietly plays passing lanes. His on ball defense is pretty good. He's not so much about keeping players in front of him, it's mostly about funneling opposing players to their weakest spots. Watch some of his kings games, he forces players to go baseline where there's Divac and Webber ready to help out; they're pretty good at it. Christie is a very smart team defender, unlike Howard, but may have lost a step with age. We'll see.

[cripple balls]

Originally posted by: LRB
I think the biggest question mark defensively for the mavs, at least during the regular season, will be replacing Bradley. Bradley was huge for the Mavs last season during the regular season, and did a fantastic job filling in for Damp when Damp was out injured. I don't think that it's much of a stretch to say we might not have had home court advantage in the 1st round if we didn't have Big Shawn to step in last year. All we have behing Damp is 3 totally unproven projects. If we have to go big stretches with Dirk or KVH at the 5, I think the Mavs will struggle just to come close to being as good defensively as last year.

lol

[snoop]

We are better on D by default because of Fin moving on. he was AT THIS PIONT IN HIS CAREER a bad defender. Christie is without a doubt better. My concern is if our offense is good enough with the lose of Fin.

[jayC]

Bradley being huge. Not really henderson and even booth filled in for Bradley. The season rests on Devin Harris and the backup centers. If not we will probably be a top 4 seed.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: jayC
Bradley being huge. Not really henderson and even booth filled in for Bradley. The season rests on Devin Harris and the backup centers. If not we will probably be a top 4 seed.

Sure there were times that Booth and Henderson filled in for Big Shawn, but the team sucked eggs generally when they did versus the general whopping the Mavs but on the opponents with Shawn in the lineup. And when Damp was out hurt, it was Shawn primarily holding down the fort and keeping the Mavs in contention for HCA in the 1st round. Booth was nothing but a total spare, and Henderson was a spare that hustled. Neither were capable of making a big positive impact to a game as Shawn regularly did.

And if we want to have HCA in the 1st round we definitely need Devin to step up, and possibly even more importantly we need at least one of the project centers to step up and play good at backup center. And we better pray that Damp doesn't go down with an injury like last year.

[TheKid]

Arne,

very good information you provided, however, that year they ranked 24 in defensive rebounds was PURELY a result of Don Nelson's "small ball", so while they improved significantly last year I don't put too much credence in that stat because even if Don Nelson played Shawn Bradley and Wang Zhi Zhi they would have done better on the boards than they did that year considering Dirk was the only real presence on the boards that year.

We'll see how it goes but my question was really are they a defensive team now or are they just a team that has slowed the pace down? I personally think they have slowed the pace down and that was a KEY reason they have held their opponents to a lower percentage. Also with all the running they did in the past, their transition defense was AWFUL, therefore there were more open three pointers. It's pretty obvious they have focused more on defense which is definately a good thing, I just really wonder how much better defensively they really are.

[bcrav4]

Originally posted by: jacktruth

I think you are right. I think Christie will be used the least of them. They will probably try to keep him fresh for playoffs.

Christie is a downgrade from Finley. I don't know how you argue otherwise. Finley is a more than capable scorer and did his share of defensive improvement last year. Recall that it was Finley, not Howard that played the best defense on TMAC last year. In fact, I think TMAC pretty much ate Howard up.

Howard's defensive prowess in not fully proven. Before I'm lanced for that. . .I'm yet to see Howard shut down the great scorers in this league (Kobe, TMAC). Yes, I think he is capable, but I know that Buckner, Bell, and Griffin could shut down those players and Howard is not there yet.

The comments about team defense are right on. We can only evaluated Howard's defensive abilities after a team defense atmosphere is established and maintained.

THANK YOU!!!! Did ANYBODY notice Howard's sucky defense on TMAC? But...I have an explanation for this. Fin actually denied TMAC the ball and jumped in front of the passing lane so TMAC couldn't recieve the ball in a comfortable place. Howard, on the other hand, let TMAC recieve the ball with ease every time and tried to stop him after he comfortably recieved the ball. He wasn't going to stop TMAC one on one like that...his lateral quickness isn't great.

[Arne]

Originally posted by: TheKid
Arne,

very good information you provided, however, that year they ranked 24 in defensive rebounds was PURELY a result of Don Nelson's "small ball", so while they improved significantly last year I don't put too much credence in that stat because even if Don Nelson played Shawn Bradley and Wang Zhi Zhi they would have done better on the boards than they did that year considering Dirk was the only real presence on the boards that year.

I think you are just not right about that one, since Walker and Jamison are good at rebounding the ball! However, Small Ball played indeed a part in that scenario. But just look at year before the Walker-Deal happened! In that year they actually played Bradley and LaFrentz and do you remember how the Trailblazers nearly came back during the playoffs because we simply couldn't rebound a god damn basketball?[/b] Rebounding the basketball has always been a problem for the Mavs before they signed Dampier. You just have to consider that we were a Run and Gun team. And when a team keeps the pace up, there will always be a lot of opportunity to rebound the ball, which we just didn't do.

We'll see how it goes but my question was really are they a defensive team now or are they just a team that has slowed the pace down? I personally think they have slowed the pace down and that was a KEY reason they have held their opponents to a lower percentage. Also with all the running they did in the past, their transition defense was AWFUL, therefore there were more open three pointers. It's pretty obvious they have focused more on defense which is definately a good thing, I just really wonder how much better defensively they really are.

So you really think that they are only number one in 3pt-defense because they slowed the pace down and managed to stop the transition-3pters? There has to be a lot more to the fact that they were the best in that category. However if you ask how much better they really are defensively, than you've gotta ask AJ-stats.

During the regular season they scored 103.1 PPG and received 92.2 PPG. That's a difference of +10.9 PPG under Aver Johnson. And I don't call scoring 103.1 PPG slowing the pace down. I can't find the stats about their FG-percentage during that stretch and the percentage of their opponents, but everybody should know that they are pretty good.

I only quoted the regular season stats under Avery, because I think that he just had to play small ball against Houston and Phoenix plays a Run and Gun offense no matter what you do, even the Spur had to go running and gunning with them.

But if you really wanna know how much better they really are defensively, then you just have to wait till next season, because for me the whole the Dallas=Defence thing started with AJ taking over.

[samsteng]

Dude, better defensively is better defensively. Don't over analyze. If you have more money you are richer. If your oponents score fewer points in a season, on average, you are doing better defensively. Look for Dallas to take another defensive step this year. Money in the bank.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Shit I just realized Doug Christie is actually gonna be a Mav. It just hit me while looking at Arne's sig. Goodness I hope this guy doesn't get off the bench.

[GP]

I also wonder about the Mavs defense. Was that defensive performance in the playoffs a mirage or was it the real Mavs in action? I mean, hell, Jason Terry has absolutely got to be one of the greatest living defensive players ever. One on one defensive is his forte'. Face it folks, this team was as bad defensively last year as ever. Remember how well they supposedly defended the three. I watched NO take wide open shot after wide open shot from 3 and damned near missed every shot. It wasn't the fact that the Mavs were so good defensively as many teams they played just had trouble knocking down the wide open J. That works against the dregs of the league but what happens when they play the good teams? This team has a lot of work to do to say it is improved defensively or in any way for that matter. Basically, we can speculate about this but nobody is really going to know anything until the season starts. Hopefully, this team will be a good team that can play a complete game. Personally, I am eager to find out.

[basketball jonessss]

Originally posted by: LRB
I think the biggest question mark defensively for the mavs, at least during the regular season, will be replacing Bradley. Bradley was huge for the Mavs last season during the regular season, and did a fantastic job filling in for Damp when Damp was out injured. I don't think that it's much of a stretch to say we might not have had home court advantage in the 1st round if we didn't have Big Shawn to step in last year. All we have behing Damp is 3 totally unproven projects. If we have to go big stretches with Dirk or KVH at the 5, I think the Mavs will struggle just to come close to being as good defensively as last year.

Ah, someone that understands the game. Bradley will be missed. Even more so, if they had consistently played him.

[mary]

Some are putting too much emphasis on the Christie acquisition and whether or not this makes the Mavs better defensively. Even the best individual defenders will tell you its about TEAM defense and buiding enough trust and cohesion to be an effective defensive unit.

By the players' own admissions, they did not focus much on defensive schemes during practice when Nellie was coaching. With Avery taking over and getting the benefit of a training camp - that is a thing of the past. How is it that they <i>can't</i> improve defensively by having a coach that will actually emphasize defense?

Last year the Mavs got better defensively because they acquired and played a center that clogged up the lane (even if he didn't do much else at times).

This year the Mavs will be better defensively because they have a Coach who cares about implementing it and not just paying it obligatory lip service.

So....yeah....I think the Mavs will be better defensively.......REALLY.

[Some Guy]

I agree, I don't see how they can not be better defensively. The question I have is how much worse will the offense be?

[jayC]

Josh Howard, Devin Harris and Marquis Daniels all have the length and athletic ability to be good defenders.

Things we know Dirk will score 25+ points per game and avg 8+ rebounds a game. He probably will average 3+ assists per game. I think he will average 1.2+ blocks per game.

Josh Howard will have plays called for him. JHO is a guy that is capable fo scoring an efficient 16 plus points a game.

Jet's scoring should go up and his assists probably will go up.

The mavs had so many core changes last year. It was amazing they won 58 games and finished one game out of the second seed. The mavs lost games they shouldn't have. Games to Atlanta and Philly without AI.

Keith Van Horn can play three positions adequately for the mavs. Keith and Dirk give the mavs a mismatch offensively against almost every oponent in the league.

The mavs win a championship if Dirk becomes a post player that destroys smalls like Marion and the T-Macs of the world. If Devin Harris can play an effective 10-20 minutes at point guard. If the mavs go 8 deep in the playoffs. Our depth was supposed to help us in Phoenix. We really only played 6 players. This year that has to change. If it all of these things happen we have an excellent chance to win it all.