Fantasy Football talk

[chumdawg]

How about a thread for various and sundry fantasy football talk?

I have a trade on the table that I would appreciate your feedback on. This is in my $100-dollar league, so I'm being extra careful.

As I described in the other thread (and with a couple little changes since), here is my roster:

QB - Green, Vick (dropped Kitna for Vick)
RB - James, Dunn, C Taylor, Gore, Maroney
WR - S Smith, Boldin, Burleson, Matt Jones, Troy Williamson
TE - Gonzalez
K - Wilkins (dropped Gostkowski for him, though I do like Gostkowski)
DEF - Chicago

Obviously, I am hurting at QB these days. So I sent a feeler out to a buddy of mine who has Palmer. Here is what he offered:

Palmer
Joe Horn
Corey Dillon

for

Boldin
James
Vick

I think I have a little bit of depth at RB. But giving my top runner and my top receiver seems a stout price. Then again, I can't go lollygagging it around at QB. Questions for you:

1) How big do you think the difference is between Palmer and Vick/Green? Do you see Palmer having a big year still, despite his pedestrian play in the opener?

2) If Smith is healthy and productive, I have a nice 1-2 punch with Smith and Boldin. Can I afford to deal one of them for an upgrade at another spot? This league starts two RB's, two WR's, and a RB/WR slot.

3) I have Maroney on my team already, who I view as more valuable over the course of the year than Dillon. Agree, or disagree?

4) Would Horn or Dillon ever find the field on my team?

5) Should I just wait it out and go with Vick until Green gets healthy?

Thanks, as always, for your intelligent feedback. I feel like I have a good team, but I am worried like hell about the QB spot. The scoring in this league seems to make passing touchdowns highly valuable. And I guess I feel that, when I look at the rest of the teams in the league, I do have a surplus of talent on the bench and I want to use it as wisely as possible.

[jthig32]

I don't know if you have any kind of special scoring in that league. If you don't, I don't understand why you'd even consider this deal.

In most fantasy leagues, the elite QB's go in the 3rd round, and not before. You're giving up the best two players in this deal.

Take Boldin out, period.

Honestly, only knowing those 6 players, Edge for Palmer and Horn is the only thing close to fair.

There's a reason Edge is a top 5 pick in fantasy, and Palmer is generally a late 2nd/early 3rd pick, at best.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Yeah, I would definetly not do that deal. Boldin and James are both more valuable than Palmer.

1) Palmer will have a big year, and will be MUCH better than Vick and Green.

2) Yes, you could trade one of them, but if I were you I would offer Boldin for Palmer and Horn or something along those lines. Boldin is more valuable than Palmer.

3) I disagree, but neither are that valuable.

4) Prolly not.

5) That's a possibility, but I'd go after guys like Brady, Hass, or Palmer using Boldin as your main bargaining piece.

Overall, don't do this trade, use Boldin to get yourself a great QB. You should be able to get any QB but Manning by trading Boldin and someone for Manning and someone. Good luck.

[chumdawg]

Thanks for the feedback, Thiggy. I'm only considering it because I am feeling rather desperate at QB.

The scoring in our league goes: 45 passing yards per point, 15 receiving and rushing yards, and six points for all touchdowns. Fractional points allowed.

I went through six drafts in this league, and in all of them that I can remember, Palmer went higher than that. Edge didn't sniff the fifth pick, either. I got him at #9.

But I understand what you are saying, and I thank you for your feedback.

In my wheelings and dealings tonight, I have been offered Bledsoe for Dunn, straight up. Thoughts?

[jthig32]

Looking at your roster, I would recommend using your RB depth as the trade bait, not your WR's. I think there's a huge dropoff from Boldin/Smith to your other receivers, whereas with your RB's, I really think Taylor is going to deserve to start most of the year, and Gore would make a fine flex position RB.

Maybe someone will overvalue Gore right now after his big game.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Would you be getting Dunn? If so do it immediatley. If not, control your Cowboy love and reject it. It makes no sense for you to do it even though you need a QB.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Trade Chester Taylor. Hold on to Gore, he and Vernon Davis are the Niners only offense. Heed the advice of a Niners fan, Gore WILL have a big year.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Thanks for the feedback, Thiggy. I'm only considering it because I am feeling rather desperate at QB.

The scoring in our league goes: 45 passing yards per point, 15 receiving and rushing yards, and six points for all touchdowns. Fractional points allowed.

I went through six drafts in this league, and in all of them that I can remember, Palmer went higher than that. Edge didn't sniff the fifth pick, either. I got him at #9.

But I understand what you are saying, and I thank you for your feedback.

In my wheelings and dealings tonight, I have been offered Bledsoe for Dunn, straight up. Thoughts?

No way to Dunn for Bledsoe.

Edge has lost some value, and I think deservedly so. Still, Edge and Boldin both go higher in most drafts than Palmer, unless you have special scoring rules.

The difference in scoring between the top ten or so QB's just isn't big enough to justify taking a QB before the 3rd round.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jthig32

No way to Dunn for Bledsoe.

Edge has lost some value, and I think deservedly so. Still, Edge and Boldin both go higher in most drafts than Palmer, unless you have special scoring rules.

The difference in scoring between the top ten or so QB's just isn't big enough to justify taking a QB before the 3rd round.

Okay, thanks. And thanks also to Nashty. I'll just ride it out for now. I always seem to get burned in fantasy trades.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Chummy, you just gotta aim high. Take Chester Taylor or Boldin and try trading for an elite QB.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

Chummy, you just gotta aim high. Take Chester Taylor or Boldin and try trading for an elite QB.

Thanks for the advice. My buddy who has Palmer also has Rivers. And Gates. He just emailed me to tell me that his backup QB threw to his TE for the score.

And I told him how last year I had Manning in the first round and Palmer in like the tenth, and how Palmer was the better performer. I offered him Chester Taylor for Palmer. Hee.

Do any of you guys have some trades working? How are your teams looking?

[nashtymavsfan13]

I'm shopping Warner around a little bit. My first week matchup has come down to the wire, and it looks like I'm going to barely lose :/

My team looks pretty good though:

QB's Brady, Hasselbeck, Warner (2 start)
RB's Alexander, Cadillac, W. Parker, Gore, Kevin Jones, Mike Bell (3 start and 1 W/R spot)
WR's CJ, Driver, Mason, Kennison, Bennet (3 starters)
TE's Cooley, Winslow
K Kasay
Def Jax


Any ideas of what I should offer Warner and one of my backup RB's for which receiver?

[Five-ofan]

I traded boldin for Lamont Jordan today. It was an accident(i had proposed it earlier) but im still pretty happy with this deal. I now have fred Taylor for TJ on the table but I am trying to make a GREAT deal for my team. My rbs are pretty darn impressive now imo. Portis and Jordan. Started with Dunn and bell when i started over(though i had MUCH better receivers.

[Ninkobei]

LaMont JORDAN? Whaat? WHY, oh dear god...elite receiver for the 32nd ranked RB..oh man.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

LaMont JORDAN? Whaat? WHY, oh dear god...elite receiver for the 32nd ranked RB..oh man.

By what measure is lamont jordan ranked 32? He had 1 bad game. he is a top 10 fantasy player though. You realize he led all rbs in receptions last year right? In 14 games he had over 1000 yards rushing and 70 catches for over 500 yards. Thats why.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

By what measure is lamont jordan ranked 32? He had 1 bad game. he is a top 10 fantasy player though. You realize he led all rbs in receptions last year right? In 14 games he had over 1000 yards rushing and 70 catches for over 500 yards. Thats why.

Don't listen to him. Great trade. Jordan is a top 12 player at least, who had one bad game. Way to take advantage of someone overreacting. Good job.

[Ninkobei]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

Don't listen to him. Great trade. Jordan is a top 12 player at least, who had one bad game. Way to take advantage of someone overreacting. Good job.

there's no way for me to dispute your opinion, but I'd be very impressed if Jordan even scored ten touchdowns this year.

I had him on my team last year, and there were just too many times when Jordan only rushed for 30 yards.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

there's no way for me to dispute your opinion, but I'd be very impressed if Jordan even scored ten touchdowns this year.

I had him on my team last year, and there were just too many times when Jordan only rushed for 30 yards.

yeah i'm sorry, that was my opinion. i think he's their main source of offense since the D can't stack the box due to Moss. He's ranked as a top 12 player, so getting him for Boldin is a good deal imo. I definetly think he'll get more than 10 td's.

[Darth Ape]

Jordan a top 12 fantasy player? har har har. bad backs on bad teams get no carries and no touchdowns. Jordan is a draft pick for fools only. If you have him, immediately try to trade him and pray to God someone offers up something like Boldin. If they do, laugh all the way to the bank.

That being said, Edgerin James is also an overrated fantasy player. Chum, I'd get what I could for him now. His fantasy value will probably never be higher. Check the history on Dennis Green coached teams and see the running back production. Not pretty. However, after James's last game against the hapless Niner defense, and the overall hype surrounding Edge, you can do better than that trade your buddy proposed. Horn is a good target, I'd say. The Saints are going to air it out this year. I think Palmer is overrated, but he's admitedly a top 5 QB pick. I'd say try James and Vick for Palmer and Horn. That's more even. James is still a top 10 fantasy pick, so it probably looks a little bad for you on the surface. But if it helps you fill a need, it's worth it. You have depth at RB. Your buddy would pull the trigger, I think.

[nashtymavsfan13]

I need some help.

Which two out of these three do I start?

Brady @ NYJ
Hasselback vs. Ari
Warner @ Sea

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

there's no way for me to dispute your opinion, but I'd be very impressed if Jordan even scored ten touchdowns this year.

I had him on my team last year, and there were just too many times when Jordan only rushed for 30 yards.

I doubt he will score 10 tds. He still puts up points though. I dont particularly care how he gets them as long as he gets them.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

I need some help.

Which two out of these three do I start?

Brady @ NYJ
Hasselback vs. Ari
Warner @ Sea

I'd say Brady and Warner. Branch is going to need a few games to get adjusted, I would think.

[Five-ofan]

Id sit brady. He is the exact opposite of the reasons i like warner for fantasy. Just as I explained about expecting boldin and fitz and edge to have big years, do you really expect Brown or reche caldwell to have big years?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Id sit brady. He is the exact opposite of the reasons i like warner for fantasy. Just as I explained about expecting boldin and fitz and edge to have big years, do you really expect Brown or reche caldwell to have big years?

And you expect Seattle's receivers to fare better this Sunday?

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

And you expect Seattle's receivers to fare better this Sunday?

By alot. jackson is 10 times the receiver of anyone on the Pats.(health issues included) Burleson is better than anyone on the pats(he still wasnt worth the money) and even without getting to know the system branch is better than anyone on the pats(though not worth a first round pick)

[jthig32]

Well, we'll have to just disagree. I would start Brady over Hasselback.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, we'll have to just disagree. I would start Brady over Hasselback.

Plus, The cards have enough offense to make it a shootout while i expect the jets vs the Pats to be lower scoring.

[Five-ofan]

I traded fred taylor for Kurt Warner and Key today. I needed the qb since green went down. I have Jordan and Portis as my runners so im happy there and this helps my receivers. I put in a waiver claim on travis henry too.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Nice trade 5-0.

I think I'll start Brady and Warner, but I'm still thinking.

[chumdawg]

If my QB's are Vick and Green (or even if they aren't, really), do you think I should give a RB for Chad Pennington? Is Penny worth Maroney?

[nashtymavsfan13]

Nah, I'd try for someone like Leftwich or Delhomme first. If that doesn't work, you could do the Penny trade.

[Five-ofan]

After the Boldin for Jordan trade I was a little week at receiver so I traded Keenan Mccardell and Deangelo williams for Samkon Gado and TJ "housh a mazoud"(espn commericial). Ed is ripping me for it but it makes alot of sense imo. I traded an old receiver with Qb issues and a promising keeper rb for a solid number 2 fantasy receiver and a guy who is more than likely a starting rb at this point with the texans.

[Ninkobei]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

After the Boldin for Jordan trade I was a little week at receiver so I traded Keenan Mccardell and Deangelo williams for Samkon Gado and TJ "housh a mazoud"(espn commericial). Ed is ripping me for it but it makes alot of sense imo. I traded an old receiver with Qb issues and a promising keeper rb for a solid number 2 fantasy receiver and a guy who is more than likely a starting rb at this point with the texans.

I still cant believe you traded a top 10 wr for jordan. I mean, wow.

I'd be surprised if Gado sees the light of day by week 5. He's going to have to learn the system before he gets any playing time at all. Look at ron dayne, how many carries has he had so far? where as Deangelo williams has had a full training camp with his team and, even though he has to share the limelight, is in a better position with his team to take over the starting job--for instance, if the #1 guy gets hurt.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

I still cant believe you traded a top 10 wr for jordan. I mean, wow.

I'd be surprised if Gado sees the light of day by week 5. He's going to have to learn the system before he gets any playing time at all. Look at ron dayne, how many carries has he had so far? where as Deangelo williams has had a full training camp with his team and, even though he has to share the limelight, is in a better position with his team to take over the starting job--for instance, if the #1 guy gets hurt.

i still cant believe you dont understand it.

[jthig32]

Lamont Jordan was the 8th ranked RB last year. He scored more fantasy points than Fitzgerald last year at a tougher position to find points.

That was a no brainer trade for 5-0. In fact, it's pretty close to robbery. A likely top ten RB for a WR, even an elite WR, is robbery.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Lamont Jordan was the 8th ranked RB last year. He scored more fantasy points than Fitzgerald last year at a tougher position to find points.

That was a no brainer trade for 5-0. In fact, it's pretty close to robbery. A likely top ten RB for a WR, even an elite WR, is robbery.

my thoughts exactly. It was an overreaction on his part. It also freed me to trade Fred Taylor for Kurt warner and Keyshawn Johnson which helped my gaping hole at qb made by trent green. Then I was able to trade Deangelo williams and Keenan McCardell for TJ housh a mazzili and SamKon Gado which while it hurts my keeper status i think clearly helps me this year. I dont think that Andre Johnson TJ and Keyshawn Johnson is ALOT worse than Boldin, Andre Johnson and Keenan McCardell. I think Key is an upgrade over Mccardell by a decent amount because i dont trust rivers and i dont think they will let him throw enough to get Gates Mccardell and LT their normal receiving numbers. My educated guess is that McCardell will be the one who suffers the most.

[chumdawg]

The Raiders look absolutely horrid, though. I mean very, very, very, very bad. I think you are fooling yourself if you think Jordan is going to match his production from last year.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The Raiders look absolutely horrid, though. I mean very, very, very, very bad. I think you are fooling yourself if you think Jordan is going to match his production from last year.

Thats the thing, he doesnt have to. Their oline was god awful last year too. There is actually a way that could benefit him. If they cant protect and their coach grows a brain they will have to throw short passes. he is a great receiver and then voila still getting me fantasy points.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Jordan for Boldin is a great trade, even if Jordan doesn't match his production from last year. Jordan is still a top 10 RB.

[Five-ofan]

Im actually planning on losing this week since im playing the team i drafted for. That team is just loaded. I dont like vick but he said he did so i grabbed him. Personally if i was him i would start mcnair but he likes vick. His team which i drafted vs my team which i have remade

Vick -------------- warner
LT -------------- portis
Westbrook -------------- Jordan
Fitz -------------- A. Johnson
Rod Smith ------------- TJ Hous a manilli
Antonio Bryant -------------- Keyshawn Johnson
Todd Heap --------------- LJ smith(this is one of the few matchups where i think i lose TE)
Lawrence Tynes --------------- Graham
Carolina. ---------------- Ravens.