DOJ...what's wrong with showing proof?

[92bDad]

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori...checks-060109/


Where is the coverage on this story in the National Media?

What is the problem with requiring voters to show proof of citizenship?

It's as if this government wants to regulate business, but they don't want to regulate the voting process?

I recall that I had to show proof of citizenship when I joined the Military back in 1986, so why don't we have to show proof of citizenship to vote?

[Mavdog]

voter id is an issue being pushed in many states (it shut down the tx legislature for a few days just this past session), and it is being covered by the media.

the problem with mandating voter id in order to vote is the use of that requirement to exclude eligible voters from voting.

how does a social security card prevent voter fraud? it doesn't.

likewise requiring a photo id limits citizens who don't drive (for instance) from exercising their right to vote.

from the article: "Justice Department officials said the citizenship match through driver's license and Social Security data has flagged 7,007 individuals as non-citizens but that many have been shown to be in error.

"Thousands of citizens who are in fact eligible to vote under Georgia law have been flagged," the Justice Department letter said."

[Underdog]

This image is as relevant as 92bDad's posts...

[Underdog]

[Underdog]

[Underdog]

[Underdog]

[92bDad]

Mavdog,

Do you have any issue with allowing people to register to vote at the DMV and as a part of the registration they are provided with a picter ID?

How about a similar program set up in other "Government" facilities? Tax office...heck the Post Office.

This would provide multiple "Government" offices for citizens to have access to voter registration.

They could turn in the Voter Registration Application, get their picture taken and provided they had an address, the Voter Registration ID Card could be mailed to them. Similar to what happens today with ones voter registration card.

If the individual does NOT have an address, they can register with the office and they would have to return to that office at a pre-determined time (I believe its 30 days) where they could pick up their new Voter Registration ID Card.

This would provide a venue for those who don't drive and even for citizens who are homeless.

It would also provide a resource for these community organizers who work to register voters, they could essentially bus registered voters to these offices so that they could register and ensure they meet the voter standards.

This would also elleviate the majority questions regarding registration fraud attributed fairly or unfairly to some groups.

How would you protect the voter process both ensuring that all qualified voters can vote, and protecting the process from having unqualified or illegal voters?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Mavdog,

Do you have any issue with allowing people to register to vote at the DMV and as a part of the registration they are provided with a picter ID?

How about a similar program set up in other "Government" facilities? Tax office...heck the Post Office.

This would provide multiple "Government" offices for citizens to have access to voter registration.

They could turn in the Voter Registration Application, get their picture taken and provided they had an address, the Voter Registration ID Card could be mailed to them. Similar to what happens today with ones voter registration card.

If the individual does NOT have an address, they can register with the office and they would have to return to that office at a pre-determined time (I believe its 30 days) where they could pick up their new Voter Registration ID Card.

This would provide a venue for those who don't drive and even for citizens who are homeless.

It would also provide a resource for these community organizers who work to register voters, they could essentially bus registered voters to these offices so that they could register and ensure they meet the voter standards.

This would also elleviate the majority questions regarding registration fraud attributed fairly or unfairly to some groups.

How would you protect the voter process both ensuring that all qualified voters can vote, and protecting the process from having unqualified or illegal voters?

by requiring a citizen to go to the dmv (for instance) to register is placing a burden, in this case that of mobility, to their exercising the right to vote.

the process seems to be working well without these id requirements. while I do want to do what we can to protect against fraud, it is most important to do what we can to protect the voter's right to cast a ballot.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

by requiring a citizen to go to the dmv (for instance) to register is placing a burden, in this case that of mobility, to their exercising the right to vote.

the process seems to be working well without these id requirements. while I do want to do what we can to protect against fraud, it is most important to do what we can to protect the voter's right to cast a ballot.

I tend to disagree, I believe that the process is providing for a HUGE Fraudulant voter turnout and I believe this needs to be corrected.

But I also believe that ALL eligible voters should have an equal opportunity to cast their vote.

Thus, in the case of the voter with a legitament mobility challenge, I believe we can have resources to identify these individuals and then set up resources to assist them with getting registered. In extreme cases, perhaps having a Police officer show up at the individuals residence to take a digital picture and submit the registration with the local registration affiliate. Ultimately sending them a Voter ID Card.

Do you see the value in setting up a system that has a stronger accountability regarding proof of citizenship in order to register to vote?

What's the harm in revamping the current system?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I tend to disagree, I believe that the process is providing for a HUGE Fraudulant voter turnout and I believe this needs to be corrected.

there have been relatively few cases of fraud shown to exist.

But I also believe that ALL eligible voters should have an equal opportunity to cast their vote.

Thus, in the case of the voter with a legitament mobility challenge, I believe we can have resources to identify these individuals and then set up resources to assist them with getting registered. In extreme cases, perhaps having a Police officer show up at the individuals residence to take a digital picture and submit the registration with the local registration affiliate. Ultimately sending them a Voter ID Card.

Do you see the value in setting up a system that has a stronger accountability regarding proof of citizenship in order to register to vote?

What's the harm in revamping the current system?

any requirement that imposes barriers to a citizen voting is a detriment and needs to avoided. we should make it as easy as we can for all citizens to be able to vote. realistically, people are for the most part lazy and do not exercise this right as they should. it's really embarrassing to see the voter turnout in the single digits for some elections.

requiring people to obtain an id only provides a vehicle to deny targeted groups the ability to vote.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

there have been relatively few cases of fraud shown to exist.



any requirement that imposes barriers to a citizen voting is a detriment and needs to avoided. we should make it as easy as we can for all citizens to be able to vote. realistically, people are for the most part lazy and do not exercise this right as they should. it's really embarrassing to see the voter turnout in the single digits for some elections.

requiring people to obtain an id only provides a vehicle to deny targeted groups the ability to vote.

We see reports of frauds...dont' ask me for a link, I don't have one at this time. Of recent we are hearing numerous cases against one specific organization. From what I gather these are dominated by "Registration Fraud" not specific Voter Fraud, which indeed are two separate issues. But the slope from one to the other is not that far. Thus the perception is clearly there and there is a level of MIS-trust in the system as it is today.

What I don't understand is how can a system that requires proof of citizenship deny those eligible to vote...how does it keep them from voting?

As for your point about people too lazy...I have no empathy for them. I can honestly say that I used to be one of those people. Not only lazy, but in many cases people are not aware of what they need to do to register, so they simply don't find out and never actually register.

Early in my voting eligibility days, I didn't bother to register nor vote...that was my bad as well as my fault. The opportunity was there and I chose not to participate. Honestly, at the time, I had no CLUE what politics meant and actually had some "Community" group found me, I would have registered and most likely voted "Democrat" ... as I've learned more and become more educated on issues, I feel more qualified to vote and now actually cast my vote on a regular basis...as you know my vote is "Republican"...all though I wish I could remove the "R" or "D" tag and vote for individuals who stand by genuine Conservative values.

Anyway, I strongly support a system that would increase the integrity of the Voter Registration and ultimately voter system.

If people CHOOSE not to participate, then the choice is on them. Again, those with a legit need, we can provide transportation...we have plenty of resources.

[Underdog]

[Underdog]

[Usually Lurkin]

underdog, that's annoying. If you can't find that you can contribute to this guys threads, don't post. Otherwise, you're just trolling.

[Underdog]

So, if he can't find a way to contribute to this site, is he trolling?

(unless you count personal attacks and reality-deprived political rants as "contributions"?)

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So, if he can't find a way to contribute to this site, is he trolling?

(unless you count personal attacks and reality-deprived political rants as "contributions"?)

I am enjoying his back and forth with Mavdog in this thread. Your pictures get in the way.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I am enjoying his back and forth with Mavdog in this thread. Your pictures get in the way.

Agreed...the two folks discussing this thread do not seem to have a problem with the topic.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I am enjoying his back and forth with Mavdog in this thread. Your pictures get in the way.

Really? I thought I was illustrating the reality of 92bDad's viewpoints...


(be thankful that I opted not to post feces...)

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Really? I thought I was illustrating the reality of 92bDad's viewpoints...


(be thankful that I opted not to post feces...)

I can get where you are coming from.
It is annoying when I log on here, see six new threads, get excited,
and then realize they are all more threads on why
the queer lovin' baby killers are ruining the country.

Is it too much to ask for a limit on new political threads, or better yet some threads about, I dunno, the Mavs?

How about this, for every political thread you start,
contribute a meaningful sports thread.

Or just contribute something to this DALLAS MAVERICKS board other than your politics.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

underdog, that's annoying. If you can't find that you can contribute to this guys threads, don't post. Otherwise, you're just trolling.

No worries, he's been on my ignore list...saddly that's the best way of dealing with his style of message board member.

I'm sure some folks find him amusing, hey to each their own. Just as I am certain there are some who ignore my posts/threads...it's no big deal.

Funny thing, looking at this thread and seeing 9 posts on the ignore list and all from one member...it just validates your point regarding his 'Troll' behavior.

[Underdog]

[Underdog]

[dude1394]

I do believe many folks don't quite see the problem with having folks identify themselves before voting. I don't know...seems kinds sensible to me.

[92bDad]

Mavdog,

I suppose the issue is that a fairly significant number of citizens are indeed concerned with 'Voter Fraud'

As a result, it would be fair to say that eligible voters are disenfranchised with the system and potentially don't vote as they believe it will not matter.

Thus there is a perception of fraud and utlimately a fairly simple solution which can be implemented relatively easily.

I believe several understand the issue of mobility challenged individuals and that most are willing to find a solution for those individuals.

There is a view that the system is broken, so why not provide a solution that creates more confidence in the system, rather than leaving things as they are?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Mavdog,

I suppose the issue is that a fairly significant number of citizens are indeed concerned with 'Voter Fraud'

As a result, it would be fair to say that eligible voters are disenfranchised with the system and potentially don't vote as they believe it will not matter.

Thus there is a perception of fraud and utlimately a fairly simple solution which can be implemented relatively easily.

I believe several understand the issue of mobility challenged individuals and that most are willing to find a solution for those individuals.

There is a view that the system is broken, so why not provide a solution that creates more confidence in the system, rather than leaving things as they are?

that's ridiculous.

does the incidence of paranoia mean that someone is truly in danger?

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

that's ridiculous.

does the incidence of paranoia mean that someone is truly in danger?

I suppose this is where we have a fundamental disagreement.

Here are the differences:

1) You don't believe there is a problem, thus you don't see the need to fix anything.

2) I believe that there is a problem and I would support a change that requires voters to show proof of citizenship.

As long as we disagree on the problem itself, then finding a middle ground in terms of a solution is perhaps unatainable.

I would like to extend to you my appreciation for this discussin with you. I'm looking forward to future discussions with you, strictly for the ability to have a rational discussion with someone who is typically on the opposite side of political issues as I am.

Take care,

92b

[rmacomic]

You don't read much do you?

[Underdog]

Wow... Just, wow...

(stay away from cocaine, kids!)

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

You don't read much do you?

By the way, since you in this thread...what's your take on wanting to see proof of citizenship in order to vote?

Just trying to keep things on topic, after all, when READING the thread title I would hate to go off and chase some other rabbits...that's what starting new threads is for.

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

By the way, since you in this thread...what's your take on wanting to see proof of citizenship in order to vote?

Just trying to keep things on topic, after all, when READING the thread title I would hate to go off and chase some other rabbits...that's what starting new threads is for.

I think it is a load of crap. I lost my social security card this year. It was a pain to replace, my birth certificate was at my folks. Should I have not been able to vote?

Just more ways to keep poor people down if you ask me.

Also I believe in unicorns, Santa Clause, and the importance of these threads.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

I think it is a load of crap. I lost my social security card this year. It was a pain to replace, my birth certificate was at my folks. Should I have not been able to vote?

Just more ways to keep poor people down if you ask me.

Also I believe in unicorns, Santa Clause, and the importance of these threads.

If you can cash a check...I think you should be able to show who you are? Buy a beer? Anything?

Got a license? Got an idcard..(looks pretty easy to get)/.

http://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/id-cards.php

If you don't happen to have a driver's license (say you're too young or your license is suspended―or you just don't wish to drive), you will probably want to get a Texas identification card instead. This will serve to identify you for most purposes in the State of Texas.
Without a driver's license to show, a Texas ID card is your ticket to boarding an airplane, checking into a hotel, entering a bar, cashing a check, and many other day-to-day activities that require state-issued ID.
The basic procedure is similar to obtaining a driver license, but without any testing requirements. Furthermore, there are no age restrictions. Any Texas resident can get one as long as they can provide proof of identity. In fact, many parents get them for their children.

You mean voting is so unimportant that folks can't be bothered to get an ID card to make sure they can do it?

I continue to NOT see the big deal with requiring someone to prove who they are to vote.

Since EVERY vote counts...shouldn't EVERY vote be valid? Or should someones valid vote be negated by an invalid one?

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by dude1394

If you can cash a check...I think you should be able to show who you are? Buy a beer? Anything?

Got a license? Got an idcard..(looks pretty easy to get)/.

http://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/id-cards.php

You mean voting is so unimportant that folks can't be bothered to get an ID card to make sure they can do it?

I continue to NOT see the big deal with requiring someone to prove who they are to vote.

Since EVERY vote counts...shouldn't EVERY vote be valid? Or should someones valid vote be negated by an invalid one?

Fair enough, this seems to me like a non issue for most people, the only ones affected are too uneducated to know how to obtain an id or too poor to afford one. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to vote.... what is your opinion of unicorns?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

If you can cash a check...I think you should be able to show who you are? Buy a beer? Anything?

Got a license? Got an idcard..(looks pretty easy to get)/.

http://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/id-cards.php

You mean voting is so unimportant that folks can't be bothered to get an ID card to make sure they can do it?

I continue to NOT see the big deal with requiring someone to prove who they are to vote.

Since EVERY vote counts...shouldn't EVERY vote be valid? Or should someones valid vote be negated by an invalid one?

there is a cost to get these id cards. this in affect becomes just like a poll tax where a person must pay for the right to vote.

[Mavdog]

the id cards are valid (like drivers license) for 6 years, so no it isn't "for the rest of your life".

there should not be any monetary cost to exercising one's right to vote. none.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

the id cards are valid (like drivers license) for 6 years, so no it isn't "for the rest of your life".

there should not be any monetary cost to exercising one's right to vote. none.

Whatever mavie. So either do it like the seniors

Those 60 and over get a break―an ID card costs only $5 and never needs to be renewed.

or make it free. Problem solved, everyone happy.

So if it was a free voters ID card you wouldn't have a problem, correct?

[Mavdog]

what is the purpose to require an id beyond having the voters card?

you realize that a voter currently has to have either the card or an id.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

what is the purpose to require an id beyond having the voters card?

you realize that a voter currently has to have either the card or an id.

I believe they may have to have both don't they? A registration card and an id showing you are who you say you are. If the voters card had a positive ID on it, that would be fine. But as it is, it's pretty useless as an id, that's why you can't cash a check with it. Anyone could take my registration card and vote.

Or just an ID will suffice without the registration card as long as you are registered.

So was that a yes...If it were free you would be okay with it?

Like instant replay, some folks just want to get it right.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I believe they may have to have both don't they? A registration card and an id showing you are who you say you are. If the voters card had a positive ID on it, that would be fine. But as it is, it's pretty useless as an id, that's why you can't cash a check with it. Anyone could take my registration card and vote.

Or just an ID will suffice without the registration card as long as you are registered.

So was that a yes...If it were free you would be okay with it?

Like instant replay, some folks just want to get it right.

no, if you have your voter registration card you don't need a second ID, they look at the signature on the card to match to the signature on the sign in sheet. you sign the sheet and they give you a ballot. if you don't have the registration card you show your ID.

I've got no problem with a photo on the voter registration card. this would need to be done so there's no cost and its easy to provide.

[fluid.forty.one]