Tank or try? - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Holiday5 · 07-09-2015, 04:29 PM

Honestly, Mavs fans the sad truth is we have known this time was coming at some point, Dirk vs Father time. It's just super sad how its happening that's for sure. Honestly for Dirk, you just let Dirk does what he wants, but overall, you have to tank regardless of Dirk. First let me say that "tanking" statement goes against what I believe in. One of the best Mavs qualities has been the fact they would do whatever it would take to compete every single season, we mortgaged our future and tried to go after Chips with Dirk. Regardless of what you want to say in hindsight(blowing up the team 2012, getting rondo) Atleast we took chances, you can't knock the FO for doing, we tried a different approach. I love that fact especially in a league ripe with tanking.

There are a lot views on how Dirk should go out and how to approach this. I will say just to start, I am a massive Dirk fan, he is my fav Athlete of all time, I cannot express how much I love Dirk. I would love nothing more than to watch Dirk ride off into the sunset with more rings. But Dirk isn't leaving Dallas, you don't trade him. If he wants to go to another contender let him. But right now you don't do what needs to be done for Dirk, you do what is best for the franchise. In the Grand scheme I don't think Dirk is owed more, or we should feel bad. Aging Superstars has been one of the biggest issues with teams. Looks at the Celtics/Lakers of the 80's, 90's they kept trying to win with their aging stars and became dormant in the 90's, the bulls after Jordan, Lakers again after Shaq. Kobe is going through it right now. Heat will be doing it with Wade. There is no perfect solution and most of the time it ends badly.

Dirk has had 18 glorious years in the league, he is a very smart dude, he would probably even tell Mark and all the fans to tank. He would still start playing his 25 minutes a game until he retires a maverick. You can't control everything, he can't control Deandre Jordan, no one saw that coming. There is no reason to mortgage even more of your future after what happened to us. As much as we want to keep giving Dirk more shots at a title, even he knows that this year its impossible. Dirk is far to humble and not as great as he once was to make sure that we get a .500 team out there. Its either a contender or not.

Bottom line, you have no more choice but to tank you don't owe it to anyone. Deandre Jordan stabbed us in the back. Right now we are in the Grieving stage, some mavs fans are angry, denial(put a winning team out there) etc etc. The faster we all move to "accepted" We can realize that that 15 year great window with Dirk is over and move onto the future. I can't express how much that pains me to say it, or how big of a mavs fan I really am, but I am just saying what we all know deep down and need to accept it. Keep Dirk, trade away the other assets for picks, If Dirk wants to go let him, if he doesn't let him do his thing, and we will all still love him regardless.

Underdog · 07-09-2015, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holiday5

Honestly, Mavs fans the sad truth is we have known this time was coming at some point, Dirk vs Father time. It's just super sad how its happening that's for sure. Honestly for Dirk, you just let Dirk does what he wants, but overall, you have to tank regardless of Dirk. First let me say that "tanking" statement goes against what I believe in. One of the best Mavs qualities has been the fact they would do whatever it would take to compete every single season, we mortgaged our future and tried to go after Chips with Dirk. Regardless of what you want to say in hindsight(blowing up the team 2012, getting rondo) Atleast we took chances, you can't knock the FO for doing, we tried a different approach. I love that fact especially in a league ripe with tanking.

There are a lot views on how Dirk should go out and how to approach this. I will say just to start, I am a massive Dirk fan, he is my fav Athlete of all time, I cannot express how much I love Dirk. I would love nothing more than to watch Dirk ride off into the sunset with more rings. But Dirk isn't leaving Dallas, you don't trade him. If he wants to go to another contender let him. But right now you don't do what needs to be done for Dirk, you do what is best for the franchise. In the Grand scheme I don't think Dirk is owed more, or we should feel bad. Aging Superstars has been one of the biggest issues with teams. Looks at the Celtics/Lakers of the 80's, 90's they kept trying to win with their aging stars and became dormant in the 90's, the bulls after Jordan, Lakers again after Shaq. Kobe is going through it right now. Heat will be doing it with Wade. There is no perfect solution and most of the time it ends badly.

Dirk has had 18 glorious years in the league, he is a very smart dude, he would probably even tell Mark and all the fans to tank. He would still start playing his 25 minutes a game until he retires a maverick. You can't control everything, he can't control Deandre Jordan, no one saw that coming. There is no reason to mortgage even more of your future after what happened to us. As much as we want to keep giving Dirk more shots at a title, even he knows that this year its impossible. Dirk is far to humble and not as great as he once was to make sure that we get a .500 team out there. Its either a contender or not.

Bottom line, you have no more choice but to tank you don't owe it to anyone. Deandre Jordan stabbed us in the back. Right now we are in the Grieving stage, some mavs fans are angry, denial(put a winning team out there) etc etc. The faster we all move to "accepted" We can realize that that 15 year great window with Dirk is over and move onto the future. I can't express how much that pains me to say it, or how big of a mavs fan I really am, but I am just saying what we all know deep down and need to accept it. Keep Dirk, trade away the other assets for picks, If Dirk wants to go let him, if he doesn't let him do his thing, and we will all still love him regardless.

That's a powerful 1st post.

Kidd Karma · 07-09-2015, 05:58 PM

Tank for the next great NBA star not born in North America...Ben Simmons.

rimrocker · 07-09-2015, 07:14 PM

Seriously, is there an NBA team in a worse position than the Mavs right now?

We have no choice but tank or we are totally screwed.

mac222b · 07-09-2015, 08:06 PM

This is a really difficult choice to make but for Dirks and RC's sake(and to a lesser extent Parsons and Wes, etc.)I think they have to put the best team possible on the floor. It's the dignified thing to do. It also will mean most likely giving up a top 8-12 pick to Boston

Thespiralgoeson · 07-09-2015, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

This is a really difficult choice to make but for Dirks and RC's sake(and to a lesser extent Parsons and Wes, etc.)I think they have to put the best team possible on the floor. It's the dignified thing to do. It also will mean most likely giving up a top 8-12 pick to Boston

As many in this thread have already stated, I don't think we have the choice of not tanking. The Mavs have a piss poor roster and nothing to work with.

ffballer · 07-09-2015, 08:19 PM

tank season, with this team and zaza pachulia as our starter center we can luckily (very luckily) win 25 games

EricaLubarsky · 07-09-2015, 08:27 PM

Zaza? Trading AWAY picks?

We are trying.

mac222b · 07-09-2015, 08:33 PM

[QUOTE=Thespiralgoeson;1387711]As many in this thread have already stated, I don't think we have the choice of not tanking. The Mavs have a piss poor roster and nothing to w

It depends on the health of Parsons and Wes.
Otherwise we are probably still better than a lot of teams. Idk I just have a heard time seeing a Carlisle coached, Dirk led team bottom 7

Bryan_Wilson · 07-09-2015, 08:41 PM

I prefer to tank but if Dirk or FO don't want to tank or feel it's possible then whatever I can see that. I'm just not looking forward to another year of posters saying mavs don't treat draft seriously. I mean so many around here seem to be wanting to do right for Dirk yet when it fails like last few years inevitably it turns to more clown FO posting and how the FO failed Dirk. When draft night comes nobody is going to care we got Zaza for a 2nd it'll just be we traded a pick for a veteran to tread water again.

Thespiralgoeson · 07-09-2015, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

It depends on the health of Parsons and Wes.
Otherwise we are probably still better than a lot of teams. Idk I just have a heard time seeing a Carlisle coached, Dirk led team bottom 7

What exactly do we have a "shot" at? I think this is a 35-win roster at best. Just good enough to give away our pick to Boston.

Ugh... f*ck my life.

FreshJive · 07-09-2015, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I prefer to tank but if Dirk or FO don't want to tank or feel it's possible then whatever I can see that. I'm just not looking forward to another year of posters saying mavs don't treat draft seriously. I mean so many around here seem to be wanting to do right for Dirk yet when it fails like last few years inevitably it turns to more clown FO posting and how the FO failed Dirk. When draft night comes nobody is going to care we got Zaza for a 2nd it'll just be we traded a pick for a veteran to tread water again.

Have the terms of the trade been released? The pick can be heavily protected, just to have something involved for trade purposes.

mac222b · 07-09-2015, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

What exactly do we have a "shot" at? I think this is a 35-win roster at best. Just good enough to give away our pick to Boston.

Ugh... f*ck my life.

I'm not disagreeing. In fact, I'm agreeing with you. I think this team- assuming no major setbacks for injured guys-is going to land in the mid to late lottery.
8-12 range.

Underdog · 07-09-2015, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I'm not disagreeing. In fact, I'm agreeing with you. I think this team- assuming no major setbacks for injured guys-is going to land in the mid to late lottery.
8-12 range.

We need to push for #7... Keep Parsons and Matthews out for as long as possible, let Dirk rest a lot.

purplefrog · 07-10-2015, 10:35 AM

If the Mavs tank, do they lose Carlisle? Some seem to think he is not up to a rebuilding project. If this is the case, should this be the best reason to try to put something competitive together? Oh, I forgot that is absolutely impossible......Goodbye Rick, thanks for the championship!

Underdog · 07-10-2015, 06:05 PM

Our chances of tanking died when Wesley Matthews honored his contract. At that moment we were suddenly too good to tank to the bottom, so our only option was to go all-in on D-Will and Zaza and try to field a competitive team.

Yesterday I thought we were closer to the #7 pick in the draft than the #8 seed in the West, but now we're not.

MavzMan · 07-10-2015, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

our only option was to go all-in on D-Will and Zaza

Well, at least "all in" is really just $5 mill per year for DWill and and $5.2 for ZaZa, so don't overreact on those guys. The MBT is still getting value for the money they are spending. DWill is only making $1 mill more than Devin, so even if we just get last year's version of him, it's still not that bad of a price.

Like you said though, with Dirk/Parsons/Matthews we will not be a top 7 draft team. We might as well do what we can which is probably 7-10 in the WC and drop the pick to Boston to get that out of the way.

Underdog · 07-10-2015, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Well, at least "all in" is really just $5 mill per year for DWill and and $5.2 for ZaZa, so don't overreact on those guys. The MBT is still getting value for the money they are spending. DWill is only making $1 mill more than Devin, so even if we just get last year's version of him, it's still not that bad of a price.

I said "all-in on Deron and Zaza" when I meant to say "all-in on guys like Deron and Zaza" -- as in, we're giving money to the type of players that can help us win instead of scrubs who can help us tank... I should have been more clear about that.

mavsjunkie · 07-10-2015, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We need to push for #7... Keep Parsons and Matthews out for as long as possible, let Dirk rest a lot.

If Dirk can last 2 more years, we tank and get Simmons, the quickness in the way Cuban can build around players, we could be back in contention in 2 years if we tanked this year.

We still have some solid players to build around like Carsons. Let he and Matthews sit out like you said, and try to get the 3rd and up picks. It's crucial to try to get a young super star and no one is going to trade one to us.

Underdog · 07-10-2015, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsjunkie

If Dirk can last 2 more years, we tank and get Simmons, the quickness in the way Cuban can build around players, we could be back in contention in 2 years if we tanked this year.

We still have some solid players to build around like Carsons. Let he and Matthews sit out like you said, and try to get the 3rd and up picks. It's crucial to try to get a young super star and no one is going to trade one to us.

Well, a lot has changed since yesterday... Can we get a re-vote?

mac222b · 07-10-2015, 10:44 PM

As long as Dirk is here, no tank. It's really that simple all along. I hope Parsons and Maythews, Deron are healthy and we come out with a giant chip on the collective shoulder. How great would it feel to be 6th in the West at the all-star break? If everything breaks right, you never know.

Underdog · 07-11-2015, 03:13 PM

Looks like Joel Embiid is going to miss this season... The 3rd overall pick from 2014 still hasn't played a single game in his career, 76ers Plan Tank set back another year.

dirt_dobber · 07-11-2015, 04:46 PM

Thanks UD - Embiied story. I would hate to be a 76'ers fan.

erdubya · 07-12-2015, 01:51 AM

Tank and end up like the 76ers? #joelembiid No thanks... I do not wanna revisit the early 90s. Try, play with effort, hustle, play smart, and the wins will come. No DJ needed.

Budapest Maverick · 07-12-2015, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffballer

tank season, with this team and zaza pachulia as our starter center we can luckily (very luckily) win 25 games

Sadly we are going to win around 35.

Budapest Maverick · 07-12-2015, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Looks like Joel Embiid is going to miss this season... The 3rd overall pick from 2014 still hasn't played a single game in his career, 76ers Plan Tank set back another year.

Is it though? They already got Noel and Okafor, two premier talents at the big man position. There is no set back, they are just not as deep as they could be.

Underdog · 07-12-2015, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Is it though? They already got Noel and Okafor, two premier talents at the big man position. There is no set back, they are just not as deep as they could be.

But they have zero upward mobility -- what's the point of getting high picks year after year if you can't eventually turn them into a winning basketball team?

At this rate, all those rookie contracts are going to expire before the team is any good, then those players are going to bolt to join teams that aren't interested in tanking... A losing culture is its own worst enemy.

bvbull200 · 07-12-2015, 12:51 PM

Everyone saying they have no choice but to tank obviously has no idea what tanking is. There is a difference between tanking and just being bad. Signing the deal with Wesley Matthews, going after Zaza, and making a move for Derron Williams makes it pretty clear they aren't going in to tank mode. They might be bad and be a lottery team, but they aren't trying to lose as many games as possible, either.

For whatever it is worth, I'm good with them trying to win as many games as possible, even if that ends up being 30-35. Tanking is no guarantee of future success. Better odds than trying to climb from mediocrity? Probably, but I'll take the pride that comes with playing to win and roll the dice on making something happen in free-agency to get good.

Underdog · 07-12-2015, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvbull200

Everyone saying they have no choice but to tank obviously has no idea what tanking is. There is a difference between tanking and just being bad. Signing the deal with Wesley Matthews, going after Zaza, and making a move for Derron Williams makes it pretty clear they aren't going in to tank mode. They might be bad and be a lottery team, but they aren't trying to lose as many games as possible, either.

For whatever it is worth, I'm good with them trying to win as many games as possible, even if that ends up being 30-35. Tanking is no guarantee of future success. Better odds than trying to climb from mediocrity? Probably, but I'll take the pride that comes with playing to win and roll the dice on making something happen in free-agency to get good.

Yeah, if we don't finish in the bottom-7, then tanking this season is an absolute waste of time because Boston gets our draft pick.

rimrocker · 07-12-2015, 03:02 PM

Losing out on DJ isn't as big of a deal for this season as it is for the years to follow.
I don't think we will be that much worse this season than we would have been had DJ signed.

It has become a guard's league and DWill is probably better than any guard we would have picked up after signing DJ. Although Zaza isn't the talent DJ is, he is a big body that can give us something on O and D.
We've added some nice 2-way players this year which is something we haven't seen much of in a while.

The problem of losing out on DJ is the near impossibility of landing any decent FAs the following year and beyond.

MFFL · 04-12-2016, 10:29 PM

Glad we didn't tank the season. Dirk deserves a shot (as pitiful as it will be) to win another title

Murphy3 · 04-13-2016, 10:25 AM

At the very least, Dirk deserves to play in the playoffs...