Sura's "Triple Double" - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

StvNash13 · 04-13-2004, 03:06 AM

As the time expired in the Atlanta game, Bob Sura needed one rebound to complete a third consecutive triple double. So what does he do? He throws the ball up and gets the rebound. Now this is the kind of stuff that makes me puke. We saw the same thing last year with Ricky Davis, unargueably one of the dumbest players in the league who cannot possibly be liked by anybody in my opinion. Just thinking about this makes my blood boil. How can you be such a loser?????? Anybody else disgusted with this or am I the only one?

MavKikiNYC · 04-13-2004, 07:18 AM

Do people remember Ricky Davis (or Bob Sura) for getting a triple-double? Or for shaming himself in trying to get one?

I liken this to the time that a girl in my elementary school wet herself at a school assembly where she was getting a Certificate for Perfect Attendance.

Everyone remembers the pee-pee, but no one remembers the perfect attendance.

Five-ofan · 04-13-2004, 09:15 AM

Honestly I dont think that its that big of a deal. To me its no worse than the admiral going for 71 on the last day of the season to win the scoring title or Henderson stealing a base when the game is out of reach. However, if I was on the other team I would have planted him.

Big Boy Laroux · 04-13-2004, 10:44 AM

did he do like davis and throw it up against his own goal? or was it actually on the goal he was shooting on?

Big Boy Laroux · 04-13-2004, 10:48 AM

i just found the article.

he missed it at the goal he was shooting on. not that big a deal, in my opinion. how many times did rodman "miss" layups to pad his rebounding stats?

MavKikiNYC · 04-13-2004, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Big Boy Laroux
i ....
he missed it at the goal he was shooting on. not that big a deal, in my opinion. how many times did rodman "miss" layups to pad his rebounding stats?

Indeed how many times does Walker slap the ball around at the rim and end up with a 10 reb night?

Is he really a better rebounder than LaF was, or just a more efficient/effective padder?

Christian Lattener, Juwan Howard, Raef LaFrentz, Antoine Walker.

Mavs needing a tough big man.

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

SaltwaterChaffy · 04-13-2004, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Do people remember Ricky Davis (or Bob Sura) for getting a triple-double? Or for shaming himself in trying to get one?

I liken this to the time that a girl in my elementary school wet herself at a school assembly where she was getting a Certificate for Perfect Attendance.

Everyone remembers the pee-pee, but no one remembers the perfect attendance.

you obviously remembered the attendance.

the fact that it's three in a row will make sure he's remembered, at least when someone does it again and it is mentioned as "the first since bob sura."

FreshJive · 04-13-2004, 12:00 PM

At least Sura was smart enough to do it on the right backboard I guess. It's still shady, but I would have never expected Sura to get three triple doubles in a row. Wow.

Big Boy Laroux · 04-13-2004, 12:07 PM

apparently, his teammates were trying to miss and also help him to get it on the defensive side, but couldn't...

how about this. say a teammate had an obvious chance at a rebound, and simply tipped it over to sura. counts as a rebound for sura. is that shady?

Nicky31 · 04-13-2004, 12:27 PM

I remembered when Steve Nash got his triple double here in Dallas. He was one rebound shy of getting it when there was a missed free throw A. Walker was in position when Nash tried to snatch the rebound from Walker, but Walker made it obvious this was going to be his rebound. Everyone in the AAC was shocked that Walker wouldn't let Nash get the rebound. So I guess you could say Nash was being shady in that position because he too seemed shock by Walker's actions with the rebound.

I believe that each player should have to work for every stat they get..each player is battling for stats and production in every position they play because these stats rebounds, points , and assists are how these players will be judged after each game by other team scouts, and will most likely decides who gets paid, and who will be looking for work next season...

I guess the same could be said about Emmitt Smith in his last 2 seasons with the Cowboy's. I would love to see how many rushing attempts he had; probably more than any other RB in the league, and this was after his prime...

Jbrjo · 04-13-2004, 01:11 PM

Bob Sura Triple-Double Disallowed

NEW YORK, April 13 --The National Basketball Association today disallowed a missed field goal attempt and ensuing rebound which gave Atlanta Hawk guard Bob Sura a statistical "triple-double" in the Hawks' 129-107 victory over the New Jersey Nets on April 12.
In the closing seconds of that game, Sura intentionally missed a layup and grabbed the rebound.

The NBA rule book states that "A field goal attempt is a player's attempt to shoot the ball into the basket for a field goal."
The league ruled that Sura did not attempt a field goal, and therefore there was no rebound.

LINK[

MavKikiNYC · 04-13-2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jbrjo
Bob Sura Triple-Double Disallowed

NEW YORK, April 13 --The National Basketball Association today disallowed a missed field goal attempt and ensuing rebound which gave Atlanta Hawk guard Bob Sura a statistical "triple-double" in the Hawks' 129-107 victory over the New Jersey Nets on April 12.
In the closing seconds of that game, Sura intentionally missed a layup and grabbed the rebound.

The NBA rule book states that "A field goal attempt is a player's attempt to shoot the ball into the basket for a field goal."
The league ruled that Sura did not attempt a field goal, and therefore there was no rebound.

LINK[

Quote:

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Do people remember Ricky Davis (or Bob Sura) for getting a triple-double? Or for shaming himself in trying to get one?

I liken this to the time that a girl in my elementary school wet herself at a school assembly where she was getting a Certificate for Perfect Attendance.

Everyone remembers the pee-pee, but no one remembers the perfect attendance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you obviously remembered the attendance.

the fact that it's three in a row will make sure he's remembered, at least when someone does it again and it is mentioned as "the first since bob sura."

So Bob Sura, if remembered at all, will be remembered as the player who pissed on himself.

grndmstr_c · 04-13-2004, 02:15 PM

I like the move of disallowing it. That kind of stat padding has no place in the game.

And by the way, any comparisons between what Sura (and Ricky Davis) did and Steve's recent triple double or Emmitt's rushing record are completely off base. Steve hustled for those rebounds in the flow of the game and didn't do anything that even approached deliberately missing, on his own basket or anyone else's, and Emmitt earned every yard he ever gained for the Cowboys.

irontoad · 04-13-2004, 02:47 PM

OK, so they disallowed his 10th rebound after the game was over, correct? If so, that means that after they reviewed the game, they made this decision...

Something that strikes me strange about all this is if the NBA can overrule a stat in a game that's already ended, then what's to stop them from overturning a call after a game is over? For example, let's say the Mavs are up 103-100 vs. the Lakers in the waning seconds of a game. Let's say Kobe makes a 3 pointer as time expires, and forces overtime, to which the Lakers end up winning the game. But wait, after the game is over, someone looks at the game footage, and sees that Kobe's toe was on the 3pt. line, which should have given a score of 103-102 Mavs. Shouldn't the result of the game be overturned, then since it was an incorrect call and 'against the rules'?

Maybe I'm going way overboard about this, or there's an easy explanation, but this is just something that strikes me as really strange...

Nicky31 · 04-13-2004, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I like the move of disallowing it. That kind of stat padding has no place in the game.

And by the way, any comparisons between what Sura (and Ricky Davis) did and Steve's recent triple double or Emmitt's rushing record are completely off base. Steve hustled for those rebounds in the flow of the game and didn't do anything that even approached deliberately missing, on his own basket or anyone else's, and Emmitt earned every yard he ever gained for the Cowboys.

grandmstr_c...I never stated that Steve's triple double didn't happen in the flow of the game, but that his reaction was he became shocked when Walker took the rebound. Like Walker was suppose to let him take the rebound to get his triple double; when on the flip side Walker was trying to prove he could produce for PT...

I will admitt that Emmitt in the 90's was a sight to behold, and honestly I never said it's Emmitt's fault that he had so many carries, but that after the 2001 season the offensive coordinator would run the ball 3 and out alot with Emmitt (which in my mind was odd because he should have been retired by then)...(I guess if your not going to make the playoff's; might as well try and break an earthshattering record)

I was just using examples, and really think both players during their prime (except Nash who is still in his prime) are the best at what they do...These kinds of things happen alot to players that I have seen, but it's not always the player that is at fault. Sometimes it might be the coach and how his philosophy is towards game planning that might have 1 or 2 more players more involved than the others...

To be honest if you can pad your stats without notice then I say go for it because it might lead to a guarenteed contract and more money than you would know what to do with. I feel that fooling coaches and scouts with stats will not work, and if they do your true colors will show more often then not...

Big Boy Laroux · 04-13-2004, 03:03 PM

i cannot believe they disallowed it. ridiculous.

grndmstr_c · 04-13-2004, 03:19 PM

I was shocked when Walker took the rebound (even though I'm used to seeing Walker get about half of his defensive rebounds by grabbing them away from Dirk). I don't remember Steve making any kind of deal out of it, but if he did, it was probably because he had that rebound until his teammate surprised him by taking it away from him (like Toine does to Dirk all the time...oh, nevermind, already said that[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]).

It's really beside the point, though, because you did compare Steve and Emmitt's accomplishments to what Sura did, and that was what I was taking issue with. Did Steve hustle for those rebounds more than usual? Yep, but surely no one would consider arguing that his triple double should be held in low regard because he got it by playing hard. Did Emmitt get more carries than he deserved late in his career in Dallas? Perhaps (though it's not like the offense was littered with other viable options, so I think you can just as easily argue that it made sense to give him the ball), but that has aboslutely nothing to do with whether or not he deserved the record; he earned the yards he gained. Emmitt's ability to carry the ball as much as he did throughout his career is one of the main reasons he's a worthy successor to Payton, not cause to impugn his accomplishments. Maybe that's not your intention, but I just feel like it's an unjustified insult to both Steve and Emmitt to make the connection between what they've done and what Sura did last night.

DubOverdose · 04-13-2004, 03:48 PM

The crowd wanted to see him get a triple double eventhough it really wasn't completely earned. Yes it shows Sura is immature, but this game is all for the fans and the fans got what they wanted. I wish the Mavs padded Marquis' stats those two nights in a row that he almost had triple doubles.

Big Boy Laroux · 04-13-2004, 03:58 PM

double post.

Big Boy Laroux · 04-13-2004, 03:59 PM

has anyone seen a highlight online? i'd like to post it here, to show whether or not it should be considered a shot. The last thing we need is the league ruling over what a player's intentions are.

mavsman55 · 04-13-2004, 04:18 PM

We're lucky that Steve Nash is a humble guy who didn't put up too much of a fuss when Walker stole the rebound from him. See, people make getting a triple-double more important than it actually is. Now, you tell me, which is more important:

Nash grabbing the rebound for his 10th, giving him a triple double

or...

Dallas getting the rebound at all

Obviously, the 2nd one is more important, and I think that's the way Steve viewed this one. Stats can be overrated sometimes. And any shred of respect I had for Bob Sura is now gone, because he embarrassed himself and his team to try and give himself a "remarkable" stat that really isn't that important anyway, as long as his team wins.

Quote:

Originally posted by: irontoad
OK, so they disallowed his 10th rebound after the game was over, correct? If so, that means that after they reviewed the game, they made this decision...

Something that strikes me strange about all this is if the NBA can overrule a stat in a game that's already ended, then what's to stop them from overturning a call after a game is over? For example, let's say the Mavs are up 103-100 vs. the Lakers in the waning seconds of a game. Let's say Kobe makes a 3 pointer as time expires, and forces overtime, to which the Lakers end up winning the game. But wait, after the game is over, someone looks at the game footage, and sees that Kobe's toe was on the 3pt. line, which should have given a score of 103-102 Mavs. Shouldn't the result of the game be overturned, then since it was an incorrect call and 'against the rules'?

Maybe I'm going way overboard about this, or there's an easy explanation, but this is just something that strikes me as really strange...

Well irontoad, you have a point. But there is a fine line between a game-deciding call and a pointless stat. It didn't matter whether or not Bob Sura was credited with that 10th rebound or not, because Atlanta still won the game. The stat had no effect on the outcome of the game. But the situation you mentioned with Kobe, they couldn't go back and decide to change that because a game was riding on it. They have to trust the officials to make the right calls at the right time, and that's what they'd do in that situation.

FreshJive · 04-13-2004, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Big Boy Laroux
apparently, his teammates were trying to miss and also help him to get it on the defensive side, but couldn't...

how about this. say a teammate had an obvious chance at a rebound, and simply tipped it over to sura. counts as a rebound for sura. is that shady?

Yeah its still a little shady, because you are getting a stat that you otherwise wouldn't get. I don't think it really detracts from the accomplishment though. One rebound difference here or there really isn't that important. Wether Sura got 9 or ten rebounds really doesn't change the fact that he basically got a triple double three games in a row.

EricaLubarsky · 04-14-2004, 01:28 AM

let him have his glory. He is a nobody who is going on vacation for a few months starting this week.

Mandyahl · 04-14-2004, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Big Boy Laroux
has anyone seen a highlight online? i'd like to post it here, to show whether or not it should be considered a shot. The last thing we need is the league ruling over what a player's intentions are.

i can't find one online, but i mean....i saw it on sportscenter, and i just don't understand how they can say that it's not really a field goal attempt. now we go by what players mean to do, not what happens? so if someone doesn't mean to foul, then it's not a foul? the nba just seems way off base in disallowing the rebound to me...it's all a little shady.

MavsFanatik33 · 04-14-2004, 08:41 AM

I think it was great of the NBA to not count it as a triple-double. It shouldn't have been a rebound anyways, he threw it under the rim and then grabbed it right before time expired. Grant Hill, the last one to do it, did it without "cheating"....

sike · 04-14-2004, 02:57 PM

I saw the highlight...pathetic....they took it away for good reason....he was not trying to get that bucket

WayOutWest · 04-14-2004, 04:27 PM

I haven't seen the play so I don't know the exact conditions but why not throw it off the backboard for a dunk ala T-Mac in the previous two all-star games, Sura has the hops of it.

I totally disagree with the league disallowing it, that's BS plain and simple. It opens up a whole can of worms, more selective irrational BS from the NBA.

How about we go back and disallow that jump ball in the Lakers/Denver game this year or we go back and disallow that Larry Johnson 4 point play NY got vs Indy in the playoffs that knocked the Pacers out of the running and perhaps their first title.

BEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEES!

MavKikiNYC · 04-14-2004, 07:38 PM

Hardly has to be pointed out that people actually BET on things like Sura's 3rd consecutive triple-double (or not);

and any sense that athletes are manipulating statistical results in a way wholly unrelated to the actual playing and/or outcome of the game affects the integrity of the game.

FreshJive · 04-14-2004, 10:22 PM

Well I guess the three people that bet on Sura to get his third triple double will just have to give that money back.