Can someone explain why this is called a "stimulus"

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Arne

with those guys running the bank, i can really see the next boom coming...

I'm not sure they want a boom....

"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste". Rahm Emmanuel...

[dude1394]

Interesting graph showing the on-going omnibus bill AND the recently passed stimulus bill. Nothing to really stimulate the economy....unless you replace economy with "guvment".

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...g2MTk0Mjk1MzQ=

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm not sure they want a boom....

"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste". Rahm Emmanuel...

dude, you are just TRYING to be stupid there...

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Interesting graph showing the on-going omnibus bill AND the recently passed stimulus bill. Nothing to really stimulate the economy....unless you replace economy with "guvment".

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...g2MTk0Mjk1MzQ=

do you actually believe what you're regurgitating?

from today's dmn:

Tarrant County toll road project to get $250 million in stimulus funds

10:04 AM CST on Friday, March 6, 2009
By MICHAEL A. LINDENBERGER / The Dallas Morning News
mlindenberger@dallasnews.com

State transportation officials voted Thursday to spend $250 million in stimulus funds to advance a major toll project in Tarrant County.

In all, the Texas Transportation Commission awarded some $1.2 billion for projects throughout Texas even as it has endured criticism from lawmakers who wanted a greater role in deciding which projects would be funded.

"Today's vote reflects four months of hard work by TxDOT staff and community leaders," commission chairwoman Deirdre Delisi said in a written statement. "Now, it's time to put Texas to work."

The North Texas work will be done on the DFW Connector, a $917 million project that mixes free and toll lanes near Grapevine and D/FW Airport.

By spending the $250 million in stimulus money on that road, the state may be able to free up tax dollars for other projects in North Texas.

Also on Thursday, the Regional Transportation Council voted to spend its smaller share of the stimulus – about $144 million – on two interchanges connected to Southwest Parkway, a Tarrant County toll road expected to be built by the North Texas Tollway Authority. That project could begin as soon as this spring.

These decisions mean that all of the stimulus money earmarked for large projects in North Texas will be spent in Tarrant County.

But the regional council agreed Thursday that Tarrant County will relinquish some money it had been promised from the State Highway 121 toll project in return.

That money will be used to pay for a wide variety of smaller projects in Dallas, Denton and Collin counties.

The RTC also voted to spend $90 million on transit projects in North Texas, drawing from a separate stimulus fund. About $61 million goes to DART, which will use it on the extension of the Orange Line to Irving.

The first phase of that line will reach Las Colinas in late 2011.

In addition to the funding for big projects across Texas, the transportation commission agreed to spend about $500 million on maintenance. Also, responding to criticism from lawmakers, commissioners on Thursday added $60 million for projects in economically distressed counties.

if you truly believe that these projects are not employing people, are not going to improve our region's transportation efficiency, not going to yield benefits to our local economy, you're deceiving yourself...

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

do you actually believe what you're regurgitating?

from today's dmn:


if you truly believe that these projects are not employing people, are not going to improve our region's transportation efficiency, not going to yield benefits to our local economy, you're deceiving yourself...

I hope they are not using Tax dollars on a toll road.

If they are then the tax payers are getting SCREWED!!!

In Europe you have Private companies who make money off of the tolls collected to not only maintain the roads, but expand the roads.

I happen to use the toll roads here in Dallas, but I expect my 40-60 bucks of monthly tolls to go back into the developement and maintanence of the road itself.

It has to be a huge money maker, one that collects money 24/7.

Knowing we have a few Million people here in the metroplex, I would estimate that they are taking in more than $100,000,000 per month in tolls...you would think that they have more than enough funds to manage their own growth.

I would be shocked if they have less than 2,000,000 drivers per day on the toll roads. Most likely using more than one toll per driver...

No I don't have real data, I'm just estimating based on how often I find myself caught up in Toll Road traffic.

Again, I am 100% against ANY tax dollars going to anything toll road affiliated...why do I want to pay twice for driving on that road?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I hope they are not using Tax dollars on a toll road.

If they are then the tax payers are getting SCREWED!!!

In Europe you have Private companies who make money off of the tolls collected to not only maintain the roads, but expand the roads.

I happen to use the toll roads here in Dallas, but I expect my 40-60 bucks of monthly tolls to go back into the developement and maintanence of the road itself.

It has to be a huge money maker, one that collects money 24/7.

Knowing we have a few Million people here in the metroplex, I would estimate that they are taking in more than $100,000,000 per month in tolls...you would think that they have more than enough funds to manage their own growth.

I would be shocked if they have less than 2,000,000 drivers per day on the toll roads. Most likely using more than one toll per driver...

No I don't have real data, I'm just estimating based on how often I find myself caught up in Toll Road traffic.

Again, I am 100% against ANY tax dollars going to anything toll road affiliated...why do I want to pay twice for driving on that road?

consider yourself shocked.

in 2007 there was an average of 1,055,100 tolls/day on the NTTA roadways.

second, the tollroads built are not only the actual toll generating surface streets, they also include non-toll frontage roads used by hundreds of thousands of vehicles/day.

third, the tolls do not completely cover the costs of the roads, esp when ongoing maintanance/debt service expenses are included.

last, the increased value in privately owned property that benefits from frontage on the tollways pays back multiple times in future taxes.

you are correct in one of your statements, you do not know the "real data"....

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

consider yourself shocked.

in 2007 there was an average of 1,055,100 tolls/day on the NTTA roadways.

second, the tollroads built are not only the actual toll generating surface streets, they also include non-toll frontage roads used by hundreds of thousands of vehicles/day.

third, the tolls do not completely cover the costs of the roads, esp when ongoing maintanance/debt service expenses are included.

last, the increased value in privately owned property that benefits from frontage on the tollways pays back multiple times in future taxes.

you are correct in one of your statements, you do not know the "real data"....

Based on that information, I would be in favor of raising the price of the tolls, but again, I am completely against any taxes going to a toll road service.

Again, if other toll road entities are making a serious profit, then any loss taking place on NTX Toll roads is a result of mis management...Thus another reason I don't want my tax dollars going to another government waste program.

Toll roads are a choice, thus if I want to ride on the toll road, I have to be willing to pay the price...if not then I can go on roads that my taxes built.

These toll roads, when managed properly...not only pay for themselves, but they are cash cow of unheard of proportions!!!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

do you actually believe what you're regurgitating?

from today's dmn:


if you truly believe that these projects are not employing people, are not going to improve our region's transportation efficiency, not going to yield benefits to our local economy, you're deceiving yourself...

And you somehow believe that this money will be spent before this year is out. What is the stimulus again?

Sure they will yield benefits and a huge tax burden down the road. Again if he wants to double, triple, whatever road spending fine...but don't do it in the name of a "stimulus" that won't do anything for probably a year.

I could get plenty of benefits from borrowing twice my current paycheck...until I have to pay it back.

It's a spending plan that's tailor made to democrats...that's all it is..The only jobs it appears to save are guvment jobs which are probably too bloated now.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

And you somehow believe that this money will be spent before this year is out. What is the stimulus again?

Sure they will yield benefits and a huge tax burden down the road. Again if he wants to double, triple, whatever road spending fine...but don't do it in the name of a "stimulus" that won't do anything for probably a year.

I could get plenty of benefits from borrowing twice my current paycheck...until I have to pay it back.

It's a spending plan that's tailor made to democrats...that's all it is..The only jobs it appears to save are guvment jobs which are probably too bloated now.

no, the monies will not be spent before this year is out, and that is not what anyone has said will happen.

why is it imperative that the money be spent before this year is out? will our economy next year be recovered so much that it won't need any help? I doubt it.

the monies are beginning to flow, and there will be benefits this year. and in years to come.

there is no illusion that these monies won't have to be paid back, and nobody is denying that it is going to cost us in the future.

these aren't "guvment" (why you can't write government is beyond me...) jobs, these are jobs for engineers who design the roads, and private contractors who bid to build the roads, and workers who are out there working for the contractors...private cos who manufacture the equipment to build the roads, and workers who are at the batch plants making the concrete, and restaurant workers who will prepare the lunches for many of the workers eat when they are constructing the roads....

some of them are dems, and some of them are republicans. trying to make this out a a partisan program is just wrong.

[alexamenos]

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/579.html

beck on the revolt of the bubbas^^^. beck is a repulsive entertainer, but by journalistic standards of cnnfoxmsnbc bunch he's the one guy that will creep outside of orthodox thought from time to time. kinda funny to see him coil in horror at the thoughts expressed by a CIA and a military analyst, thoughts like the 2nd amendment is not to ensure the right hunt quail, but instead to resist tyranny.

[DirkFTW]

Lawyer: Vick will work construction when he gets out of prison

NEWPORT NEWS, Va. (AP) -- A lawyer for suspended NFL star Michael Vick told a bankruptcy court Thursday that the former Atlanta Falcons quarterback has lined up a construction job for when he gets out of prison.

Link

The man knows where the money will be.

[dude1394]

[dude1394]

When is a stimulus, not a stimulus? When it's passed by democrats. Note the wonderful stimulative effect those dollars in the disbursement column are having.

[dude1394]

Guvment stimulus at it's finest...

ABC NEWS: Welcome to the Airport For Nobody:

You’ve heard of the Bridge to Nowhere. You might call this the Airport for Nobody. The John Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County Airport has an impressive $18 million runway made of reinforced concrete that’s big enough to land any airplane in North America. The airport also has a $7 million air traffic control tower, a $14 million hanger and $8 million radar. Most of the time, the only thing the airport doesn’t have is airplanes. . . .
The federal government provides a subsidy for every flight into the Murtha Airport of about $100 dollars per passenger, but even with the subsidy, there are plenty of empty seats. On a visit to the airport, ABC News found it virtually deserted, with an empty restaurant, vacant lounges and empty runways. An air traffic controller was twiddling his thumbs.

Sure am glad all of that stimulus money will be spent so wisely.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Guvment stimulus at it's finest...

Sure am glad all of that stimulus money will be spent so wisely.

So wait.... they already built an Airport from the stimulus money? That was fast.

[GermanDunk]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Guvment stimulus at it's finest...

Sure am glad all of that stimulus money will be spent so wisely.

Haha, same over here. Left may add http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKukhx1DPR4 to alby´s music box...

[alexamenos]

beware of the bear market rally.

I'm normally not one for prognosticating on the market, and I'm invariably wrong when I do, but still....

over the last few months the market has rallied quite a bit, with total market capitalization increasing from 'round 8.3 trillion to about $11.0 trillion -- a $2.7 trillion increase in market capitalization. i'm just saying, contra kramer, that this isn't some to get too giddy about.

The Fed Gov has spent, committed to spend or collateralized about $12 trillion basically to prop up wall street. A funny thing happens when the fed gov forks several trillion to wall street -- the market capitalization of wall street goes up. this isn't because of any fundamental improvement in the economy or in the prospects for corporate earnings, but rather it's simply a reflection of the fact that lot's and lot's and lot's of freshly federal reserve notes are being pumped into banks.

$12.0 trillion in, $2.7 trillion out....

this ain't necessarily a good sign and it may just be a sign that the bubble won't be reflated no matter how hard the fed blows.

....also, by focusing on this kind of crap I can divert my attention away from the pain I feel when thinking about the mavs chances in this series.

[Mavdog]

the "rally" is probably due to investors realizing that these equities are very cheap. the mantra is buy low, right?

the market swings from extreme to extreme, witness the lows it reached this past fall and the highs it reached in the spring of 07.

lo and behold, the rally may very well be due to the market view that the government's policies might very well be working....

the assertion that the fed has put "$12 trillion" into the market hence the increase in its capitalization is flat out wrong. the fed hasn't gone into the market and purchased stocks, they have loaned the banks (and AIG, plus chrysler and gm) $ with the borrower providing shares in their cos as collateral.

so no, this money is not reflected in the market's and the cos capitalization, as the stock pledged is treasury stock that has not been floated.

an interesting sidenote is the fed has profited nicely (so far) in its investment, with citigroup for instance up over 300% so far. I do not foresee the fed taking these loans, converting into common shares, selling them and realizing the gain, but it is good news to see that these banks will likely be able to pay the government back with interest.

[alexamenos]

I don't mean that the fed has purchased a lot of stock, I mean directly capitalizing companies has the effect of increasing the value of those companies (all other things being equal).

When I say that the fed gov has forked over 12 trillion to wall street, what I mean is that the fed has pumped money into Wall Street banks and that by pumping money into these banks the fed has increased their nominal value as ultimately reflected in stock prices.

Increasing the nominal value of these banks has trickle upon effect for other stocks...but the point is that what we're seeing in is (probably) a nominal appreciation in prices (a dollar devaluation as much as a stock value appreciation), not any gains that are portent of good things to come. This is why I say, 'beware the bear market rally.'

as for that vaunted 300% increase in citigroup....we're talking about an increase in it's market cap of about 12 or 15 billion.

and so far it's received 45 billion from the government. $45 billion in, 12 billion out -- I believe the technical term for this phenomena is "whoop-de-doo."

I bet if we printed up 20 gazillion more federal reserve notes and handed those notes to citigroup that we'd see it's stock go up even more in price.

[Mavdog]

but alex, the dollar has risen, not decreased, in value over tha last year.

again, the market bears beat the stocks down, and down again. why have the values reversed the downslide and showed gains? easy, the cos are healthier.

the inventory levels have declined and manufacturing levels have improved. margins are much better due to the lack of the need to discount prices to move goods. the rest of the world economy has also improved, esp in china where their stimulus programs have increased demand for items such as cat earth moving equipment.

long and short, we are experiencing a modest economic recovery, the business outlook has improved, the consumer sentiment has improved dramatically, construction activity appears to have bottomed out and is now on the upswing....all these have given positive reinforcement to the bulls.

the fed can give billions and billions of dollars to citi...and unless the investment community believes that citigroup has turned the corner and has the prospect to actually make a buck running its business, their stock price would still decline in spite of these billions and billions of dollars being funneled into citi.

stock prices are based on the future earnings of a business. apparently the market believes that these cos (inc citi) will have better earnings going forward. they have a much more positive view than you do.

and again, apparently the government's policies are bearing fruit.

[DirkFTW]

$7 billion into Chrysler. $0 out?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

$7 billion into Chrysler. $0 out?

This headline is misleading. It should $7billion into the UAW, $0 out?

[Mavdog]

considering the uaw membership was owed over $10 billion by chrysler, the uaw got the short end of the stick. at least the investors and bondholders got .30 on the $. the uaw got a failed nameplate that makes crappy cars.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

considering the uaw membership was owed over $10 billion by chrysler, the uaw got the short end of the stick. at least the investors and bondholders got .30 on the $. the uaw got a failed nameplate that makes crappy cars.

Well when you cut the goose open to get the golden eggs......

Let's see. Chrysler is estimated to be worth about 6billion. 6billion + 7 billion is 13billion. 55% of that is 7.15billion.

So they get 7.15billion/10billion lost or .70 on the dollar.

Nice to have friends in high places, and you don't even get called greedy.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Well when you cut the goose open to get the golden eggs......

Let's see. Chrysler is estimated to be worth about 6billion. 6billion + 7 billion is 13billion. 55% of that is 7.15billion.

So they get 7.15billion/10billion lost or .70 on the dollar.

Nice to have friends in high places, and you don't even get called greedy.

what? the uaw didn't get any of those $, they got 55% of the ownership in chrysler. now the uaw has to find a way to pay the $10B in retiree benefits that chrysler owes its members.

are you seriously believing that this new chrysler corp is going to be more successful than the old chrysler corp? nah.

chrysler is worth $6B? what makes you say that? it's got a bunch of old, inefficient factories that make crappy cars. it doesn't have any liquidity, and its liabilities are greater than its assets.

the only assets worth anything are its dealer network and the jeep brand. the network is in reality not worth much, in fact with the potential liabilities of what it will cost to shut half of those dealers down, its worth is way less than fiat believes it is.

like I said, the uaw has a huge task in front of it to turn chrysler around. the uaw membership is getting a bag of poop.

the bondholders otoh got cash.

[dude1394]

If chrysler is worth 13billion then they got 55% of 13billion I would think. They at LEAST get 55% of what the 6 or 7million that the current is estimated out, hardly <30% on the dollar.

They also get an opportunity to get their money back by running a successful business. The bond-holder....they get smeared by barry.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

If chrysler is worth 13billion then they got 55% of 13billion I would think. They at LEAST get 55% of what the 6 or 7million that the current is estimated out, hardly <30% on the dollar.

They also get an opportunity to get their money back by running a successful business. The bond-holder....they get smeared by barry.

huh? well, if chrysler is worth $20B they got all their money back....but it's not, and it's not worth $13B either. chrysler is a failed company.

you're fooling yourself if you believe "the bondholder...get smeared". the vast majority, the ones holding over 90% of those bonds, wanted to do the exchange. some holders, owning less than $300M from what I've read, wanted more for their investment.

they were piggy, and as the saying goes pigs get slaughtered.

and the uaw gets to try and do what the previous execs couldn't do, that is make chrysler successful. the guys at daimler couldn't and washed their hands of it. the hedge fund cerberus couldn't do it either. these are both good businessmen.

and my view is that the uaw and fiat won't either, so the bottom line is the bondholders made out as good as they could wish with .30 on the $. they took the risk remember.

the uaw membership? they'll have nothing rather than their pensions.

[mcsluggo]

If I am worth $4 billion.... then all of you are in trouble.

(i hold grudges)

[dude1394]

This "stimulus" package gets better and better. Only democrats could pass a stimulus package that isn't a stimulus package.

LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) -- The White House said it is unlikely to see positive employment growth until 2010 even if economic activity begins to pick up later this year, according to a report Sunday.

Christina Romer, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, said while speaking on C-SPAN that she expected unemployment to rise even if gross domestic product begins to grow in the fourth quarter of 2009, the New York Times reported. The projection was similar to the one made last week by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke.

[dude1394]

Well if it's in the NYTimes...maybe the flock will believe it. Stimulus my rear end. Let's not waste a good crisis now. Right on schedule doing nothing. Yeah...high-speed rail's gonna do it. How stupid does this group thing the american people are. Pretty damn stupid.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/us...ulus.html?_r=2

Nearly three months after President Obama approved a $787 billion economic stimulus package, intended to create or save jobs, the federal government has paid out less than 6 percent of the money, largely in the form of social service payments to states.
Graphic Chipping Away at $787 Billion

Although administration officials say the program is right on schedule, they have actually spent relatively little so far.
The stimulus bill has directly injected around $45.6 billion into the economy, mostly to help states cover the costs of Medicaid and unemployment benefits, one-time $250 checks that were mailed to Social Security recipients last week, and income tax cuts that began to take effect this spring.
Although states around the country are beginning roadwork projects, the Department of Transportation had spent only about $11 million on highway projects through the first week of May.
The intent of the stimulus program was to pump money into the economy quickly, and many members of Congress said at the time of its passage that speed was of the essence. But the huge program has been a challenge to administer for both a new administration and for states and local governments grappling with their own fiscal problems.

....

Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., who writes in a report on the stimulus bill to be released this week that it remains “ahead of schedule in most programs,” said in a telephone interview Tuesday that the bill was helping people grapple with the recession, getting money to the states and into the economy, and laying a foundation for long-term aspirations like high-speed rail.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Well if it's in the NYTimes...maybe the flock will believe it. Stimulus my rear end. Let's not waste a good crisis now. Right on schedule doing nothing. Yeah...high-speed rail's gonna do it. How stupid does this group thing the american people are. Pretty damn stupid.

let me get this right....you are constantly complaining about the rise in federal spending since the obama administration came into office, and in the above you are complaining that the obama administration isn't spending more money, or not spending appropriated monies fast enough?

wow, talk about inconsistency....just what side of the issue are you for?

oh yeah, I know the answer...whatever side of the issue allows you to be negative about the obama administration, flip flopping to whatever side serves your goal.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

let me get this right....you are constantly complaining about the rise in federal spending since the obama administration came into office, and in the above you are complaining that the obama administration isn't spending more money, or not spending appropriated monies fast enough?

wow, talk about inconsistency....just what side of the issue are you for?

oh yeah, I know the answer...whatever side of the issue allows you to be negative about the obama administration, flip flopping to whatever side serves your goal.

Bullcrap. What good is a "stimulus" that doesn't stimulate anthing for two years. That's why this is a complete vote-purchasing scheme and not a "stimulus" of anykind. If he's going to spend 1 trillion bucks then cut taxes a trillion bucks so folks will have money to do what they want, instead of it going through the "community action" groups set up by the feds.

I'm for NO stimulus...but if I have to have one, one that will actually stimulate something instead of purchasing votes for Barry.

[dude1394]

Some "stimulus". They say they'll spend 70% two years after passage, just in time for the next election.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mr-...w-me-the-money

PORT WASHINGTON, N.Y. (MarketWatch) -- Three months after the passage of a much ballyhooed stimulus package aimed at resuscitating the economy and creating jobs, precious little federal money has actually been paid out.



Recently, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that only 15% of the $787 billion bill that President Obama signed into law in February would reach the economy this year.
In and of itself, this is too little money to handle the massive job of turning the economy around this year, as Washington had hoped. But it looks as though the amount of federal cash actually reaching state and local governments and the private sector this year may well be even smaller than this measly sum.



Something less than 6%, or $50 billion, in federal funds has hit the economy so far. It appears to be mainly in the form of assistance to states to cover the cost of Medicaid, as well as the one-time checks for $250 that were sent this month to recipients of Social Security benefits.



Even less can be said about the administration's efforts to help troubled homeowners.
February's stimulus package called for the government to spend enough in incentives for mortgage lenders to spare as many as four million homeowners from foreclosure. But the Treasury admits that so far this year, fewer than 55,000 home loans have been modified.



The Obama administration says it will spend 70% of the stimulus money, or $550 billion, not more than two years after passage of the law. But, hopefully, the economy won't need these funds by early 2011 the way it does now.

[dude1394]

Ah the Barry "stimulus". No matter that it doesn't really stimulate anything for two years now it doesn't even stimulate where stimulation is most needed. You just couldn't design anything worse if you tried...unless you were trying to "take advantage of a good crisis". What a cluster this group is.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ontracts_N.htm

WASHINGTON — States hit hardest by the recession received only a few of the government's first stimulus contracts, even though the glut of new federal spending was meant to target places where the economic pain has been particularly severe.


Nationwide, federal agencies have awarded nearly $4 billion in contracts to help jump-start the economy since President Obama signed the massive stimulus package in February. But, with few exceptions, that money has not reached states where the unemployment rate is highest, according to a USA TODAY review of contracts disclosed through the Federal Procurement Data System.


In Michigan, for example — where years of economic tumult and a collapsing domestic auto industry have produced the nation's worst unemployment rate — federal agencies have spent about $2 million on stimulus contracts, or 21 cents per person. In Oregon, where unemployment is almost as high, they have spent $2.12 per capita, far less than the nationwide average of nearly $13.


That money "is needed nowhere more than it is needed in Michigan," says Leslee Fritz, a spokeswoman for the Michigan Economic Recovery Office, which is coordinating stimulus efforts in that state. She said officials are generally satisfied with the pace of federal aid, but added, "We certainly feel very intensely the need to move quickly."



The $787 billion recovery package was intended to help turn around the economy using federal money to create jobs, especially in places where the recession has taken the most severe toll. Most of that money goes directly to states to pay for work such as highway repairs, but federal agencies also will spend billions of dollars to do everything from fixing runways and improving national forests to cleaning up nuclear waste.

[dude1394]

Amateur..

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hands out potatoes to poor to buy presidential votes

The Government is handing out 400,000 tonnes of free spuds in rural towns. It says that it is merely distributing the surplus from a bumper crop, but Mr Ahmadinejad’s opponents accuse it of bribing the poor. “Death to potatoes,” they chant at rallies.

[dude1394]

The stimulus plan at work. What a cluster. Extra trillions in long term spending and no stimulus. As they say...never waste a good crisis and oh boy they didn't. Stimulus my a**.

[quote]
In any case, here is the new number for May: 9.4%, which is 0.2% higher than we had shown in the chart from a few days ago:*

[Mavdog]

hmm, wonder how much more unemployment there would be without the initiatives that have been done to curtail the affects of this recession?

we will never know, but what we do know is that there is lessening of the increase in unempolyed, and the market is not declining like it was.

give kudos where kudos are deserved...

[dude1394]

Probably none, since little is any of the stimulus has been spent. It's been a complete and utter farce.

The only thing that's been done correctly is to re-liquidate the banks, the rest has been pushing policy.

[Mavdog]

"probably"?

possibly yes, possibly no.

I'll ask again, if you are on the fiscal restraint banwagon bemoaning the amount of deficit the government is forecast to run, why would you at the same time bitch about the obama administration not pushing the stimulus money out the door?

sure is contradictory to me to criticize the lack of spending while also criticizing the deficit......

[dude1394]

Because if we are going to spend the dollars to help the economy then DO IT. Instead of spending it almost two years after appropriating it.

It's because it is not and was never about "stimulus" it is and has always been about pushing policy and buying votes.