So, who do you want to go forward with?

[Murphy3]

Obviously, this is a thread that is months and months too early.. but this is a discussion board. Based upon what you've see and how you expect players to progress..and what they might cost, who do you want Dallas to go forward with in the future (beyond this season) from this current incarnation of the Mavs?

[markus1234]

Let em play the next 2-3yrs.

1.Collison
2.Mayo
3.Marion
4.Dirk
5.Kaman

6.Wright
7.Crowder
8.Carter
9.Brand



Chasing a ring with Dwight, Paul and co. ? no thx.

[Murphy3]

I don't know about Marion staying with the Mavs in a starting role after this year...

[SMC0007]

Hmm, if you can upgrade moving Marion out of the starting 3, you have done very very well. If everything goes right, Crowder can replace him and some in the next coming years.

[Murphy3]

I don't know why I was thinking the Mavs had a team option on Marion for next year... That obviously changes my opinion a bit..

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Obviously, this is a thread that is months and months too early.. but this is a discussion board. Based upon what you've see and how you expect players to progress..and what they might cost, who do you want Dallas to go forward with in the future (beyond this season) from this current incarnation of the Mavs?

DC = Keeper. Between his play, his manageable cap hold, and Dallas' ability to go over the cap to re-sign him, locking him up long-term is about as close to being a no-brainer as anything could be at this point.

Brandan & Elton: Depending on who else Dallas targets over the summer, I question whether there'll be enough minutes for both guys, particularly if other teams try to recruit Brandan as a starter (I still see him as a bench player, myself), but I'd be very happy to see both of them return. Again, Dallas' ability to go over the cap to re-sign them is a significant factor.

Booby: I hope he can get his health together. I still think he's got the talent to be a real strength for the team as a bench combo guard - something the Mavs should be able to afford to invest in if DC does in fact solve starting point guard riddle for the forseeable future - and it'd be great for the Mavs if he could put it all together to earn himself a big raise next year. Unfortunately, that's looking like a long-shot right at this moment.

Mayo & Kaman: Gets trickier here since (as I understand things; correct me if I'm wrong) Dallas won't have any advantages beyond familiarity when it comes to re-signing them, and the success each guy has this year could end up being both a blessing and a curse, as headline-grabbing offensive play could end up pricing them out of the Mavs' future. If either of them can settle into a well-balanced role that really showcases their bball maturity above and beyond their ability to make baskets, I'd take that as a sign that things might work out in a way that allowed them to become long-term Mavs.

DoJo: unless he finally develops that 15-18 footer, I can't imagine he's here after this year.

VC & Marion: not FAs, but I mention them because they're older, on the books next year, and not Dirk. Donnie, Rick and Mark may have some difficult decisions to make concerning those two before the next free agent signing period roles around. I think next summer is the Mavs' time to make a move, and it's looking more and more like they'll be able to operate from a position of strength. Marion's salary, in particular, may be the biggest obstacle that they currently face.

[markus1234]

Marion will be fine.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/bruce_...eer_stats.html



Especially when paired with a dynamic backcourt instead of Jet Terry....

[hutch41]

IF we are playing the dream game and the play of Collison, Mayo and Wright continue at this level than I say keep that core. Another dream scenario is Marion opts out on his final year to sign a cap friendly 2-3 year extension so he can end his career with the Mavericks even if its as a role player.

I would also love Dirk an additional 2-3 years and hope Kaman would love Texas and Dirk enough to retire here with his buddy.

That may leave some money to still go after another upper mid level player.

[dirt_dobber]

Murphy - great thread......

I say we roll with this group for the next 3 years.

In fact - I am already a little antsy that we should sign Mayo and Collison to longer contracts well before their value goes up.

Rick Carlisle is the perfect coach for these guys - and I think they are very coach-able
group of players and I am thankful there are no knuckleheads in this bunch.

[Budapest Maverick]

You try to get Dwight and Paul, or any of the 2, obviously. If they sign in LA, you can't do much, but resign those guys you already have, because there is nobody on the market worth throw big money at, besides those 2. Collison, Mayo, and Kaman probably won't net you a ring, but it's gonna be a loveable team, and probably a playoff team. Problem is, after what looks like a great season, Collison may seek the max. Which for him, would be around 12 million per year i guess? Mayo obviously won't get the max, because it would very high for him i think, but he may seek 11-12 million a year as well. That wouldn't be an easy decision imo, unless they keep that up whole year. But even then, it can backfire.

[Underdog]

I still want to see how these guys look with Dirk before speculating on their future.

[hutch41]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

You try to get Dwight and Paul, or any of the 2, obviously. If they sign in LA, you can't do much, but resign those guys you already have, because there is nobody on the market worth throw big money at, besides those 2. Collison, Mayo, and Kaman probably won't net you a ring, but it's gonna be a loveable team, and probably a playoff team. Problem is, after what looks like a great season, Collison may seek the max. Which for him, would be around 12 million per year i guess? Mayo obviously won't get the max, because it would very high for him i think, but he may seek 11-12 million a year as well. That wouldn't be an easy decision imo, unless they keep that up whole year. But even then, it can backfire.

What would the max be for Collison? IMO I would rather have OJ and Collison both(assuming they continue their current level of play) for 10-12 mil each rather than one Chris Paul for 20 plus mil.

I have to admit though I'm pretty old school on the team basketball concept. Give me 1 star and 5-6 above average players but not necessarily elite. I love a deep bench, I enjoy the greatness of seeing a close game than the second units come in and we start to pull away forcing the other team to ware down their starters to keep up.

[Murphy3]

Obviously, I'm jumping the gun with this thread.. but we've gotta talk about something. So, why not speculate? Again, you obviously have to factor in the whole reason why the Mavs have all of the 1 year contracts..financial flexibility. So, who becomes available that would be a nice fit?.. who stays?

[dalmations202]

I think Collison, Mayo, Wright, Crowder, and Kaman are keepers. (Although I think Kaman should be the backup Center and a Tyson Chandler type defensive minded Center is the best for playing beside Dirk).

I think you start to determine who is the next Batman - when Dirk retires and keep the powder dry so you can accomplish this one.

I think Roddy, Dojo have proven they belong in the league, but I think they are trade material, IMO.

I think you keep Brand till his contract runs out, and unless he will take a modest number, you let him walk.

I think you really need to find your back up PG. Maybe Cunningham but who knows.

I think SF is the biggest need right now, but Marion is still pretty good. If ongoing Marion will take a modest salary, I would keep him. If he wants the bigger one, then you have Crowder and you keep looking for an upgrade (not that it is easy to find).

IMO.
Collison is a good PG, and finding a backup PG is a necessity.
OJ is a good SG, and VC is a good backup and if VC minutes limited he can play a few more.
Marion is good, but surviving on athleticism and his age will eventually catch up. Jae may be the answer - not certain yet. Need to see more defense from him.
Dirk - Wright - Brand as long as possible --- doesn't get much better on any team.
Kaman (good O, but weak D) need a defensive stalwart to play beside Dirk, then let Kaman be used as O when needed. (Kaman - Wright/Brand has worked fine as a pairing and they would kill most 2nd teams).

Personally some specialty shooters, and a specialty backcourt defender is where I think they should be looking. Also a more matched defensive center to pair with Dirk. (not sure who that is - Tyson Chandler would be perfect).

Ideally for me.
Collison -- backup PG (shooter and defensive stalwart) -- developing Cunningham
Mayo -- VC -- (developing rook)
???? -- Marion -- Crowder
Dirk - Wright
TC -- Kaman

Now, could MBT figure out how to get Chandler, keep Kaman, Marion, pay Mayo, keep VC and Wright and Collison as well as get the shooter, etc. I doubt it.

The team would be extremely versatile though and be basically able to play with anyone, and have an offensive answer as well as defensive answer everywhere.

[sefant77]

The 2013 FA market is really thin, so it would help if Collison/Mayo have a breakout year and staying here longterm.

I dont expect Paul to leave the Clippers. Why? Sterling is finally spending. Dwight leaving LA? Just if Kobes ego pissing him off and he doesnt want to be Kobes b*tch the next five years (Kobe announced two days ago he wanna play until 40).

And then we are allready down to guys like Bynum/Smith/Millsap/Iggy/Jefferson...a lot PF who doesnt really help.

And yeah Marions salary is hurting us next year. I knew when we signed us that the fifth year gonna hurt us but ok, no Marion no ring. But it sucks, specially with Crowder. This 9 million gone and we could keep Collison, Mayo AND offer another FA big money.

[Murphy3]

What's really difficult is factoring in the trade market. Let's be honest, the window isn't all that long with Dirk as the Batman..but that doesn't mean he can't slide into a Robin role for another couple of years after his Batman days are done.

[dirt_dobber]

Originally Posted by hutch41

What would the max be for Collison? IMO I would rather have OJ and Collison both(assuming they continue their current level of play) for 10-12 mil each rather than one Chris Paul for 20 plus mil.

I have to admit though I'm pretty old school on the team basketball concept. Give me 1 star and 5-6 above average players but not necessarily elite. I love a deep bench, I enjoy the greatness of seeing a close game than the second units come in and we start to pull away forcing the other team to ware down their starters to keep up.

I agree 100% with this post +rep

TEAM

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Obviously, I'm jumping the gun with this thread.. but we've gotta talk about something. So, why not speculate? Again, you obviously have to factor in the whole reason why the Mavs have all of the 1 year contracts..financial flexibility. So, who becomes available that would be a nice fit?.. who stays?

It definitely makes for nice conversation in a vacuum, but we don't really know the long-term value of any of these guys until they play with our franchise player... What if Mayo opts for hero ball instead of passing to Dirk in the clutch? What if Collison doesn't hit Dirk in his sweet spots with any consistency? What if a Dirk/Kaman duo ends up being a slow, plodding disaster on defense? These are the types of of issues that sent quality players like Devin Harris and Josh Howard packing.

I want some of those questions answered before I even begin to speculate... Although I'm glad you created a thread for this topic, since it's a conversation that will be shaping itself over the course of the season.

All I can say right now is that our new pieces on one-year contracts look damn good so far and I can't wait to see how they look with Dirk.

Originally Posted by Murphy3

What's really difficult is factoring in the trade market.

That's the bigger part of the equation - what better options are out there, especially with most of the franchise-caliber players sitting in LA, New York or Miami... Do you try to trade Collison for a guy like Brandon Jennings, or do you have a brighter future in Collison? There are still too many factors to determine before you can come to a conclusion.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Underdog

It definitely makes for nice conversation in a vacuum, but we don't really know the long-term value of any of these guys until they play with our franchise player... What if Mayo opts for hero ball instead of passing to Dirk in the clutch? What if Collison doesn't hit Dirk in his sweet spots with any consistency? What if a Dirk/Kaman duo ends up being a slow, plodding disaster on defense?

These are questions that I want answered before I even begin to speculate... Although I'm glad you created a thread for this topic, since it's a conversation that will be shaping itself over the course of the season.

All I can say right now is that our new pieces on one-year contracts look damn good so far and I can't wait to see how they look with Dirk.

I agree.

The best example is the LA Lakers. Nash, Kobe, Pau, DHoward are all great with the rock in their hands, but all of them seem to need the rock to be successful. As far a I know there is still only one basketball played with on the court and if you count MWP then they have some issues to have to resolve before they even get to be an average team.

I don't think this will be an issue with Dirk, but you never know.

[iella]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Dwight leaving LA? Just if Kobes ego pissing him off and he doesnt want to be Kobes b*tch the next five years (Kobe announced two days ago he wanna play until 40).

I was amused by this headline: Dwight Howard says Kobe Bryant should chill out, which should go over well

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Underdog

What if Mayo opts for hero ball instead of passing to Dirk in the clutch? What if Collison doesn't hit Dirk in his sweet spots with any consistency?

What if a Dirk/Kaman duo ends up being a slow, plodding disaster on defense? These are the types of of issues that sent quality players like Devin Harris and Josh Howard packing.

legit questions,

but so far Mayo seems to be a team player not a "hero ball" guy. (passed the ball to Kaman with 40sec to go and took only 14 FG per game without Dirk in the last 5 games). The same goes for Collison. He is definitely better than JJB when it comes to passing the ball.

And Kaman ? still not 100% in shape to play hard on both ends (Kaman is a great shot blocker and a former 12rpg guy) and on the german national team Dirk+Kaman worked great together...vs Ibaka, Gasol and co.



bottom line....We should wait till february...and be very optimistic.

[mavs777]

Kaman's defense has been terrible.

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Kaman's defense has been terrible.

So you don't want to go forward with him?

This thread is going to change game after game. Its hard to tell right now with so many moving parts. We have some guys that belong on the 2nd unit who are starting which has thrown everything out of whack.

[mavsfan1000]

Not Collison obviously. I think Beaubois might be better actually.

[spreedom]

All I can say to this thread is...

What took so long?

[Melonhead]

Mavs have to move something around to get a great rebounder. I like the roster, not a fan of roddy.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Not Collison obviously. I think Beaubois might be better actually.

Defensively, yes, otherwise, no. Well, at least not consistently. We can like this team to bits, but at the end of the day, you gotta try to get the best players. So unless we make the finals with this team, or win it, everybody not named Dirk is gonna be expendable. Do we really wanna give 4-5 years contracts to Mayo and Collison? I'm not sure, even if we strike out on Howard and Paul, which is likely. Remember, the playing field changed. Even if there isn't a big name who you can throw the max at in the summer of 2014, you might wanna go with a rental team again next year.

[Murphy3]

It's ok to go with rental teams year in and year out if your goal is to completely alienate your fan base and waste the remainder of Dirk's window.. If that's your goal, go for it.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Mavs have to move something around to get a great rebounder. I like the roster, not a fan of roddy.

Agree with this...need a rebounder/rim defender.
Preferably a 7 footer.
Roddy is expendible imo.

[EricaLubarsky]

Let's get Dirk and Marion back and see where we are.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

It's ok to go with rental teams year in and year out if your goal is to completely alienate your fan base and waste the remainder of Dirk's window.. If that's your goal, go for it.

Alienate your fan base? It's not european soccer, fans will go to the games, regardless. I don't think it matters to Cuban if they are the same fans that went last year. Also, isn't it what he's already doing right now, put on the court a rental team? And fans are going to the games.

The other thing, i'm a huge Dirk fan, and i think the guy was severely underrated during his prime, and overall on the all-time lists. That said, i don't think that window is even remotely open anymore, unless we can put a legit player besides him.

Tell me where we're gonna be if we give 10 million to Collison, 11 to Mayo, and 8-9 to Kaman, on long contracts. Wouldn't that be the smashing of said (and imo at the moment closed) window?

[Ninkobei]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Tell me where we're gonna be if we give 10 million to Collison, 11 to Mayo, and 8-9 to Kaman, on long contracts. Wouldn't that be the smashing of said (and imo at the moment closed) window?

Will Collison and Mayo demand that much money? Mayo might get 10..but Collison still has a ways to go in the development department before he should earn that much cash. At least in my opinion.

If Tyson were still here, this team would be a top seed contender. Not re signing him may have been a big of a blunder as letting Nash walk for nothing.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Alienate your fan base? It's not european soccer, fans will go to the games, regardless. I don't think it matters to Cuban if they are the same fans that went last year. Also, isn't it what he's already doing right now, put on the court a rental team? And fans are going to the games.

The other thing, i'm a huge Dirk fan, and i think the guy was severely underrated during his prime, and overall on the all-time lists. That said, i don't think that window is even remotely open anymore, unless we can put a legit player besides him.

Tell me where we're gonna be if we give 10 million to Collison, 11 to Mayo, and 8-9 to Kaman, on long contracts. Wouldn't that be the smashing of said (and imo at the moment closed) window?

Are you kidding me? Fans will go to games regardless? Apparently you haven't been around here during the bad times. And of course the window is open if you surround Dirk with a little more talent. That's the whole point, isn't it? If not, then it's going to be very, very difficult to bring anyone in via free agency until you strike in the draft first or pull off a major coup in a trade.

If the Mavs aren't competitive and Dirk has retired in a couple of years, the arena will be half full.

[dude1394]

Murphy's right... I'm seeing many of the long-term fans not showing up, going with smaller packages.

I'm thinking hard about the same. $100.00/ night for this is not exactly a bargain.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Are you kidding me? Fans will go to games regardless? Apparently you haven't been around here during the bad times. And of course the window is open if you surround Dirk with a little more talent. That's the whole point, isn't it? If not, then it's going to be very, very difficult to bring anyone in via free agency until you strike in the draft first or pull off a major coup in a trade.

If the Mavs aren't competitive and Dirk has retired in a couple of years, the arena will be half full.

No, what i meant is that if Cuban puts together a competitive rental team around Dirk once again next year (like this year, theoretically) fans will show up. Obviously, if we are awful, they, you guys won't show up. About the other thing, i don' think Dirk only needs a "little more talent" at this point, but a legit star player next to him, who should probably be closer to a hall of famer, than a perennial all-star. I think that is the reality, especially if you take a look at the NBA landscape at the moment.

So imo, giving long contracts to those guys (Collison, Mayo, Kaman) without that legit second star, is essentially closing the window fully. It basically means you gave up, and you are allright with a good, above average but nowhere near great team, with no chance to win the whole thing.

Now, you could, and you probably would argue that people said the same thing in 2010, but i would argue the NBA's landscape, and the west especially has changed dramatically since. Imo there is absolutely no chance we can do that run again, not without a legit second star, and maybe even that wouldn't be enough. Remember, Dirk had a Jordanesque run, in terms of scoring, and clutchness. I would never write off the guy, he's a legend, but obviously, we can't be sure he has another run like that in him, especially givin his recent problems.

Also, one other thing. I don't think that Dirk's last 2 years has to be a "hail mary" thing if nothing else, and if no star comes along, you gotta find a bunch of good players, and build a deep team for him, until he retires. I mean, we already won the darn thing. Dirk's career is complete. He won everything he could have won, team-wise, and individually. He's a top 15 player of all-time, at worst top 20.

In my opinion it's all right if Cuban puts the future of the franchise first, and if that means you don't give away 5 years contracts to mediocre players, then i think it's not necessarily a bad thing. Dirk is great, i love the guy to bits, but he's no bigger than the Mavs.

[SMC0007]

There's not much point in this thread topic at the moment. Without Dirk, you have no idea what is even going on around here. We HAVE to see who can fit in around him and help him and the rest of the guys before you can logically make anything more than a wild ass stab at this question. I'm not opposed to new threads at all, but I wouldn't put much stock into anything right now.

We had a good idea about this team being near .500 when Dirk comes back and that's about where we are, granted we seemed to have gotten here backwards. The league has missing players, new players, new coaches, big moves in the offseason that is all gonna take a few weeks to iron out who is who.

When Dirk gets back I can't see us struggling as much to finish close games and fumbling around the ball because a big piece of it will be give the damn thing to him. Mayo looks like a very nice shooter that can drain open looks that come from Dirk. Marion comes back and gives us that veteran stability as well. Right now, these guys are newcomers trying to learn to play together without the biggest piece to the puzzle. We need to just stay afloat for when he comes back because there's still a lot of learning/jelling to do even then.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Will Collison and Mayo demand that much money? Mayo might get 10..but Collison still has a ways to go in the development department before he should earn that much cash. At least in my opinion.

If Tyson were still here, this team would be a top seed contender. Not re signing him may have been a big of a blunder as letting Nash walk for nothing.

Neither one will get more than the full MLE of 5mill. I think the closest analogue for Mayo is Terryl. Terry is admittedly older, but he's also an NBA champ and he got 5mill/yr. As long as Mayo keeps up the 3pt shooting, he'll be worth at least 3-5mill, but I don't see him getting a larger contract unless he really puts it together more than just shooting and occasionally making a good pass.

Unless Collison really runs a successful team and averages 8+ apg or excels in some other area, he's just not going to get that great of a deal. He'll be a backup like JJB and get a contract that maxes out at 5mill a year-- also like JJB.

[Budapest Maverick]

Those predictions are totally unrealistic going by the market prices. Mayo at the very least is gonna get a 7-8 mill per year offer, and i could totally see someone pay Collison 6-7 million as well, even if he's viewed the same after this season as he was so far in his career. And those prices can only go up, as high as 10-11 millions, if they're having a borderline all-star season. (Mayo so far does) Mayo is looking at Derozan's contract as a worst case scenario, i'm telling you. Especially in today's quality SG depleted league. 3-5 million? Would be awesome, but it ain't happening. Somebody will overpay, i just hope it won't be us.

[sig]

I think it is probably unlikely but hope the Mavs get Dwight Howard in the off season biut possible if the Lakers flame out some.

If they can find a way to get Paul also that would be great. But I think the Clips are set going forward and Paul probably prefers to be there.

Mayo is interesting because he is looking like he is finally going to be the player he was drafted to be. I could see signing him long term as the SG especially if his play continues all season.

I like collison but i think what we have seen is about as good as he will be. He is someone I would not overpay to keep but would love to have him in the rotation. The Clippers have another PG that I would like and that is Eric Bledsoe. I would prefer him over Collison.

Wright and Crowder are keepers.

Win the lotto and draft Cody Zeller.

[Kidd Karma]

Wasn't Marion's 5th year unguaranteed?