4 way to move Walker/Big Z/VC

[uberfan]

Cleveland trades: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (15.3 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 31.3 minutes)
Cleveland receives: C Dikembe Mutombo (5.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 23.0 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +16.1 ppg, +16.7 rpg, and +2.4 apg.

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
PF Danny Fortson (3.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.4 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (15.3 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 81 games)
SF Shandon Anderson (7.9 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 80 games)
C Nazr Mohammed (7.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 80 games)
Change in team outlook: +6.7 ppg, +2.2 rpg, and -2.2 apg.

New York trades: PF Othella Harrington (4.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.6 minutes)
C Cezary Trybanski (0.1 ppg, 0.1 rpg, 0.0 apg in 2.1 minutes)
PG Frank Williams (3.9 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 12.8 minutes)
C Dikembe Mutombo (5.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 23.0 minutes)
SF Tim Thomas (14.7 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.6 minutes)
SF Shandon Anderson (7.9 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 24.6 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
C Nazr Mohammed (7.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.1 minutes)
New York receives: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
PF Danny Fortson (3.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 56 games)
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 73 games)
Change in team outlook: -14.9 ppg, -15.2 rpg, and +0.6 apg.

Toronto trades: PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes)
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
Toronto receives: PF Othella Harrington (4.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.5 apg in 56 games)
C Cezary Trybanski (0.1 ppg, 0.1 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7 games)
PG Frank Williams (3.9 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 56 games)
SF Tim Thomas (14.7 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 66 games)
Change in team outlook: -13.9 ppg, -5.5 rpg, and -1.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED


Cleveland gets help a C and PF and a chance to play Diop to see if he is will be the C of the future for them. Contracts are relatively short term except for KT but his is manageable.

Tornoto gets young PG, decent SF/PF in T. Thomas, expiring contracts at PF/C.

NY gets their high profile players they can market, clear some roster space and then they can go after a deal for a center elsewhere. However, in Fortson they are not left barren at PF/C. Walker starts at PF, VC/TAW at SF. Marbury/Norris PG, whoever can stand up out of Penny/AH at SG.

Dallas gets help at Center, perimeter defender, and maintains cap flexibility. Auditions Z before signing him to a long term deal if he fits (doubt it, but...)

C: Z/Nazr/Bradley/Benga/Pavel
PF: Dirk/Laettner/Najera
SF: Finley/Howard/Anderson
SG: Stack/Daniels/Finley
PG: Harris/Steff/AJ

3 or 4 out of Bradely/Laettner/Najera/Stack/ get traded for a 1 or 2 deal.

IR: Shuffle Pavel and some of the other unused/ineffective players (AJ, Steff, Bradley, etc.) back an dforth as needed.

Edited: Took Delk out of Depth Chart.

[Just211]

i don't think Toronto would do it, they need more

[Just211]

maybe dallas could throw in JHO to Toronto, also you have delk traded, and still on the depth chart.
I do like how you've managed to dump dallas' crappy deals for an actual need, but it might be too ideal for Dallas, those kinda things never happen around here [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[uberfan]

Originally posted by: Just211
i don't think Toronto would do it, they need more

Give them picks. They will have a difficult time getting most FA to go there. T. Thomas is only couple of years left on his contract. Plus, he is still young enough to fit in with their youth for now. Frank Williams gives them depth at PG to trade or keep, and then trade A. Williams if they can in another deal.

Knicks take Delk/Fortson/TAW as the price to pay for clearing out their roster and getting VC and Walker.

PS: Toronto also gets a little cap flexiblity this way over the next couple of years.

[birdsanctuary]

I really like how you took care of NY and Mavs junk contracts. I would do this deal, and I like the depth at the 5.

I think Torono would do this deal, especially if you throw in a draft pick, especially NY's since they are getting Carter.

[uberfan]

I think you could send 2006 Knicks first rounder and Dallas could send 2007 first rounder. Toronto comes out better off with players and draft picks than if they have tons of cap space and are chasing FAs.

[kg_veteran]

uberfan - If you have the Knicks and Mavs throw in a draft pick each to Toronto, this trade makes some sense for everybody involved.

[dalmations202]

Never happen........makes too much sense for all teams involved.

[uberfan]

Originally posted by: dalmations202
Never happen........makes too much sense for all teams involved.

Probably right about that. But, if it could be done, I would then contact Seattle and offer Bradley (better contract than Booth), Laettner (expiring contract), and Josh Howard for Rashard Lewis/Booth.

Then, our roster shapes up as

PG: Daniels/Harris/Steff/AJ
SG: Stackhouse/Daniels/Finley
SF: Reshard/Finley/Anderson
PF: Dirk/Najera/Booth
C: Z/Nazr/Benga/Pavel/Booth

Giving me Najera and Stackhouse for future trades in Feb. if Daniels and Harris come on strong this year.

[NYCdog]

Uber......since you wanted me too....

There is 1 reason why I dont like this deal......

We have to put up with both Vince and Antoine Walker.

And that's on top of Allan Houston......O hell no.......

And there is one reason why I believe the deal wont happen.

......Its the same reason why I question the NY DAILY NEWS trade rumor.......

Vince, no matter how badly he has been playing, sells tickets in Toronto.

He is the face of this franchise and the saving grace that keeps the NBA in Canada experiment alive and well.

If the Raps trade VC, it will have to be for a marquee player or players who can keep doing the same for the franchise and keep it alive in Canada. The GM and MLSE (who own the Raps) know this and the effect it can have on the franchise and its survival in Canada. They know they cant make a bad deal in this situation so I look for them to get the best that they can get, just like Orlando did for T-Mac.

So therefore, the team that will most likely land Vince will be Dallas being that they have a surplus of big marquee names for Toronto to think about and Dallas appears to be the most interested party, even going as far as to seek a third team to land Vince.

[kingrex]

Does Tariq play basketball or just pack his bags?

[Redbug]

I'd be happy with one slight adjustment....find a way for the Mavs to get Donyell Marshall instead of Shandon Anderson........

[jayC]

Walker would be a major upgrade for NY and Vince Carter over houston is huge. The worst part about the Knicks is they have morgated their future for know. Macej Lampe, cap space mcdyess and several draft picks.

Marbury
Houston
Carter
Walker
Danny Fortson

That's top five seed playoff team out east.

The best part about the trade for Dallas is they still have pieces to deal for a vet point guard.

[NYCdog]

Marbury
Houston
Carter
Walker
Danny Fortson

That's top five seed playoff team out east.

JZ.....I beg to differ.

On paper, this is a top five team.

In reality, this is the best example of a dysfunctional family.......no chemistry what so ever.

[NYKnicksFan]

The V-Carter deal is rumoured to go to NY and the player they (Toronto) want is Marbury. I'm sure they will want other Low priced guys like Lampe... It makes sence since for both teams and can explain why Isiah is trying hard to get Crawford. I don't believe the B.S. about a 3 guard set... Marbury gives Toronto the return value they can sell to the fans and if they can finagle maybe sweetney, they can also get a bright youn talent (that's dirt cheap) who will bang with the best. Also, I DO NOT want Walker!!! K-Mart destroyed him 2 years ago in the playoffs and with Shaq now in the east, he's way too soft! He's more like a 3 anyway... Cleveland seems to be very interested in K Thomas (for some reason), maybe because he's a mid-level salary guy and If they were willing to take him, I would try to work out a deal to move K.Thomas to Cleveland and maybe get G.S. involved for Dampier... If not, I am willing to start the next season with Carter, Nazr, Kurt and Tim Thomas as well as Crawford. At leat with Carter, NY gets their Marquee player that they can sell to the fans along with their $20 hot dogs!! Then both Carter and Houston can be on the DL mid season!!! Anyway, NY can afford the luxury tax.

[withoutmalice]

.

[withoutmalice]

Originally posted by: NYKnicksFan
The V-Carter deal is rumoured to go to NY and the player they (Toronto) want is Marbury. I'm sure they will want other Low priced guys like Lampe... It makes sence since for both teams and can explain why Isiah is trying hard to get Crawford. I don't believe the B.S. about a 3 guard set... Marbury gives Toronto the return value they can sell to the fans and if they can finagle maybe sweetney, they can also get a bright youn talent (that's dirt cheap) who will bang with the best. Also, I DO NOT want Walker!!! K-Mart destroyed him 2 years ago in the playoffs and with Shaq now in the east, he's way too soft! He's more like a 3 anyway... Cleveland seems to be very interested in K Thomas (for some reason), maybe because he's a mid-level salary guy and If they were willing to take him, I would try to work out a deal to move K.Thomas to Cleveland and maybe get G.S. involved for Dampier... If not, I am willing to start the next season with Carter, Nazr, Kurt and Tim Thomas as well as Crawford. At leat with Carter, NY gets their Marquee player that they can sell to the fans along with their $20 hot dogs!! Then both Carter and Houston can be on the DL mid season!!! Anyway, NY can afford the luxury tax.

Uh, didn't NY trade Lampe to PHO in the Marbury trade last year? And NY is not going to give up a top-3 PG in Marbury and an up-and-coming stud and their projected starting PF in Sweetney for an injury-prone Carter.

[NYKnicksFan]

Originally posted by: withoutmalice

Uh, didn't NY trade Lampe to PHO in the Marbury trade last year? And NY is not going to give up a top-3 PG in Marbury and an up-and-coming stud and their projected starting PF in Sweetney for an injury-prone Carter.

[NYKnicksFan]

Originally posted by: withoutmalice

Uh, didn't NY trade Lampe to PHO in the Marbury trade last year? And NY is not going to give up a top-3 PG in Marbury and an up-and-coming stud and their projected starting PF in Sweetney for an injury-prone Carter.

My bad, I meant Trybanski... It was late and I was tired
You have to understand the mentallity of NY.... It's a fortune to go to any sporting event... So to passify us they bring in a big name. As far as Marbury is concerned... top 3 point guard, maybe.. but he has a black cloud over his head and no team can seem to win with him at the healm! Crawford suffers from the same ailment as Marbury... shoot fist and pass later... but he doesn't have the same value on the market as Marbury. If we want to improve, even slightly, we need to use him for a trade. If we keep Tim Thomas we can use him in both the 3 and 4 spot. He would be great off the bench, he is athletic and is an opportunist type palyer. Nazr can excel in the 5 spot since this is an error of non-dominating centers. I would like to get a taller 4 though, since all the 4's we have are 6'7 or 6'8. Sweetney is going to be a good.. not great.. player and will compliment a team that has dominent players, which the knicks do not right now. Carter would be good for his showmanship and athletic ability, not tio mention that he CAN dominate. If Houston can stay heathly, he would have an outside presence to dish off to to keep the other team honest. I would actually like to see them go after someone like Joe Smith, he's 6'10 and a very good presence on the boards. Yes, he's not the best jump shooter, but after our 10 year with a shooting big man like Ewing, I would like to see someone who is about banging the boards. I would even like to see if Isiah can talk Rodman into joining for a year or 2. The only way Houston will stay heathly is if stays ourside and shoots his jump shots! That's his game, and if the Knicks keep trying to make him a slasher/dunking guard.. he won't play a 1/4 of the season with his knees being the way they are! That's what Carter can give us, even Tim to an extent.

[rakesh.s]

here's a one way for Big Z..wonder if it's a little too outrageous though...then again, most of these guys are probably not going to play for don nelson anyway

this is after all the trade kickers and everything work out(december?)

Cleveland trades: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (15.3 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 31.3 minutes)
Cleveland receives: PG Tony Delk (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.4 minutes)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.5 minutes)
PF Danny Fortson (3.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.7 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.8 ppg, +5.6 rpg, and +1.9 apg.

Dallas trades: PG Tony Delk (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.4 minutes)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.5 minutes)
PF Danny Fortson (3.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (15.3 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 81 games)
Change in team outlook: -3.8 ppg, -5.6 rpg, and -1.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Cleveland and Dallas being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Cleveland and Dallas had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

************************************************** ******
Cleveland gets a smaller version of boozer in fortson..they get a center...and an expiring contract and a shooter who was injured all year for the mavs.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally posted by: Just211
maybe dallas could throw in JHO to Toronto, also you have delk traded, and still on the depth chart.
I do like how you've managed to dump dallas' crappy deals for an actual need, but it might be too ideal for Dallas, those kinda things never happen around here [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Why does everyone think J-Ho is some sort of "thing" we throw in for a trade? No way.

[CaptPsycho]

what the hell is the point of these hypothetical trades where Toronto gives up Carter and gets no name in return? if you can point out that problem, the trade, tho just a hypothetical, has no way of happening, the very second you post it.

[uberfan]

Let me educate you then. If a team, like the Mavs, goes to Toronto and proposes a trade, then you expect the Mavs to make arrangements for Toronto to get "equal vlaue". If a player forces his team to trade him, then no one expects "equal value" to be exchanged.

And when the team (in this case Toronto) starts the trade rumors while at the same time denying them, they are trying to scare up other bidders. You only have to look at the recent example set by Lakers on the Shaq drama to help you better understand how the real world works.

[CaptPsycho]

ha, don't be pissed just cause i criticized the trade! my point still stands! you don't get equal value for superstars. thats obvious. but equal value and name value aren't exactly the same thing. and the Shaq ordeal and this aren't exactly the same at all. the only similar factor is that they both demanded trades. there are other factors that separate them and make them quite different. and even when Toronto has said, they MUST get somewhat of a name back, because selling tickets up there is harder than like 99 percent of the rest of league probably, any trade where the best they get is a Tim Thomas just won't happen!
ha, and that real world comment is just too ridiculous to even comment on.

[uberfan]

Please post a link to any quote from an executive of the Toronto Raptors where they have publicly said the need a "name" in any trade in order to sell tickets.

Thanks!

EDIT: Here is an update on Carter situation I don't see any quotes from Babcock saying that Raptors have to get a "name" .