Game 3 game thread

[JTmoney2424]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

You act like the rotation had anything to do with the result.

You act like it’s a sure thing it didn’t affect the result

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

And the KP trashing is back. And barely someone talks about the shitty games of THJ and DFS on both ends of the floor.

And we just have to accept that we cant have Luka run the offense 10-12min without any break, so the early subs are the best way to go. Sure today Rick should have let him play 1-2min more to see if he hammers them even more down, but in principal it has to be the way Rick handles it.

Luka cant run this insane insane usage rate for extended minutes when he isnt even near his prime athletic condition agewise...or when you do you tank the offense because his shots are short and he is too slow back at defense

THJ has balled out the previous 2 games. DFS was huge in game 1. Both of them outplayed KP in game 1. THJ certainly outplayed him in game 2 as well. I think it's fair to be critical of KP to do more than what he has done this series as someone who is expected to do more than role players and hasn't.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by BPo001

That’s been the rotation all series. He’s gotta rest sometime. He’s not playing all 48.

Luka only played 39 minutes in a very important game

On the other side Leonard played 42 minutes, despite being almost 30, fragile & constantly needing rest

That first quarter rest might have cost us a series

[JTmoney2424]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

I can understand riding the hot hand of your support players or sitting them if they can’t get it going, but Luka is your star. If your team is up by that much and it comes to the time you had planned to sit him, then you just sit him. What’s the point of a plan if you deviate from it when it is working?

No, you adjust your rotation and ride the hot hand until it cools off. Why have RC even on the sidelines then? With your thought process, just have him draw up everything pregame and go sit up with Dirk.

[Grady Wilson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

And the KP trashing is back. And barely someone talks about the shitty games of THJ and DFS on both ends of the floor.

Porzingis sucked tonight. Period. I don't care if he sucked in the regular season. If he's what many think he should be then he needed to step up tonight and he didn't. And I mentioned how THJ and DFS didn't contribute either, but when Porzingis is supposedly the 2nd man on the team, then the bar is raised for him in the playoffs. THJ and DFS shoulder some of the blame, but in no way should they take the same amount of "trashing" as Porzingis.

[JTmoney2424]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Lmao

TIL Twitter has channels

I just signed up for twitter. Don’t be a douchebag

[Grady Wilson]

And I'm not saying Luka should play 40-42 minutes a game. What I am saying is in the playoffs, when it truly matters the most, you don't have to stick to the same pattern as the regular season.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Grady Wilson

Porzingis sucked tonight. Period. I don't care if he sucked in the regular season. If he's what many think he should be then he needed to step up tonight and he didn't. And I mentioned how THJ and DFS didn't contribute either, but when Porzingis is supposedly the 2nd man on the team, then the bar is raised for him in the playoffs. THJ and DFS shoulder some of the blame, but in no way should they take the same amount of "trashing" as Porzingis.

They shouldnt? Just because KP earns more?

they were 7-24 FGA combined while the four wing players of the Clippers were a combined 33-51 FGA. They laid an incredible egg on both ends as well

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Grady Wilson

And I'm not saying Luka should play 40-42 minutes a game. What I am saying is in the playoffs, when it truly matters the most, you don't have to stick to the same pattern as the regular season.

Its not about the total minutes. Its about the length of the stretches because of his usage. 10-4-10 / 10-4-10 splits just arent realistic for him if you want him to run the offense the way he is doing it

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Grady Wilson

And I'm not saying Luka should play 40-42 minutes a game. What I am saying is in the playoffs, when it truly matters the most, you don't have to stick to the same pattern as the regular season.

Why not?

I just don't get this babying Luka stuff with the minutes. Sure limit his minutes in the regular season but this is the playoffs lot's of stars play 40 minutes a game.

Has anyone paid attention to the Lakers and Suns series?

AD/LeBron and Booker/Ayton all play 40 minutes a night.

Luka is younger than all them so why is it a problem for Luka to play 40 minutes in the playoffs?

What are you actually saving him for at this point........

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by JTmoney2424

No, you adjust your rotation and ride the hot hand until it cools off. Why have RC even on the sidelines then? With your thought process, just have him draw up everything pregame and go sit up with Dirk.

Luka had just missed his last two shots when he was pulled.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by JTmoney2424

I just signed up for twitter. Don’t be a douchebag

I apologize. It was douchey

[sefant77]

Everyon can test it tomorrow. Go outside and run with high intensity for 6 minutes, rest 4 minutes and run then again 6. And later go out and run 11-12min and then see the difference how you handled the 2nd half of the minutes in both cases.

Thats basically the thing with Luka. Cant have him at this insane usage rate AND make him play stretches of 10+ minutes without tanking his game.

[Grady Wilson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

They shouldnt? Just because KP earns more?

they were 7-24 FGA combined while the four wing players of the Clippers were a combined 33-51 FGA. They laid an incredible egg on both ends as well

Has absolutely nothing to do with money. You know as well as I do that Porzingis was brought in with the expectation of him being the 2nd best player on the team. That expectation has never been put on THJ and DFS. While THJ was pretty bad tonight, there's no question he's been more valuable so far in this series than Porzingis. And as I mentioned previously, I stated earlier in the thread how those three didn't step up tonight. While they collectively sucked, Porzingis is held to a higher standard, right or wrong, dollar signs or not.

[Grady Wilson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Everyon can test it tomorrow. Go outside and run with high intensity for 6 minutes, rest 4 minutes and run then again 6. And later go out and run 11-12min and then see the difference how you handled the 2nd half of the minutes in both cases.

Thats basically the thing with Luka. Cant have him at this insane usage rate AND make him play stretches of 10+ minutes without tanking his game.

Are you honestly trying to make an apples to apples comparison? Seriously???

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I don't think it was unnecessary and on paper was great considering we got the pick thrown in as well.
It turned out bad but the Mavs were not going to get better without doing something to try to improve their D.
Hindsight tells me the Mavs should not have made the trade and Rick should have tried to develop Green more during the season.

The other trade made absolutely no sense to me other than trying to make up for loss of Curry. We could have used Wes and JJ in this series to at least throw a little resistance at KL and PG.

Yeah in hindsight if you don't go after J.Rich you keep Curry and Green gets to play a little more as a situational wing defender this year.

Surely Green could do some of the things that Mann does in limited minutes which is bring energy and aggression

In fact I was hoping he would get some burn because he has the strength to battle Leonard and George enough to save DFS/Kleber legs a little

Worst case scenario you throw him Morris for a few minutes a night

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Grady Wilson

And I'm not saying Luka should play 40-42 minutes a game. What I am saying is in the playoffs, when it truly matters the most, you don't have to stick to the same pattern as the regular season.

Its not the same as the regular season. He played more minutes than he usually does.

The Mavs were up 11-28. When is it OK to let Luka take his rest? They need to be up more, less, or losing? I'm trying to understand the logic of blaming the loss on that decision. When is it OK to trust Timmy, Porzingis, and Brunson to make a few shots and not drop an 11-28 lead in a matter of a couple minutes? They will have to at some point.

[Grady Wilson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Why not?

I just don't get this babying Luka stuff with the minutes. Sure limit his minutes in the regular season but this is the playoffs lot's of stars play 40 minutes a game.

Has anyone paid attention to the Lakers and Suns series?

AD/LeBron and Booker/Ayton all play 40 minutes a night.

Luka is younger than all them so why is it a problem for Luka to play 40 minutes in the playoffs?

What are you actually saving him for at this point........

I think 42 minutes is too much. Maybe he would be fine with it. My whole point for tonight was the dude was money to start the game and had a ton of momentum and swagger. The team was feeding off of it and so were the fans. The Clippers were looking defeated already. I figured Carlisle would keep him in for a few more minutes to make a statement that the first two games wasn't a fluke. Apparently though he doesn't want to roll that way in the playoffs and is going to sit him like he has all season. Like I mentioned previously, if the Mavs are fortunate enough in Game 4 to be up by 10 early in the 1st quarter is he going to sit him again when his plan says it's time to sit him?

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Grady Wilson

Are you honestly trying to make an apples to apples comparison? Seriously???

What apples and apples?

There is a HUGE difference between Luka playing a 6min stretch between a breather or a 10-12min stretch, how is this so hard to understand?

The guy isnt standing half of the time in a corner waiting if a pass is coming. He is advancing the ball, setting the offense up, posting up nonstop etc etc, thats a huge workload. Way bigger than of any other Mavs or Kawhis or PGs. And it makes a huge difference if you have to do it for 6min in a row or twice as long. Thats why my example with the running for yourself

[Grady Wilson]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Its not the same as the regular season. He played more minutes than he usually does.

The Mavs were up 11-28. When is it OK to let Luka take his rest? They need to be up more, less, or losing? I'm trying to understand the logic of blaming the loss on that decision. When is it OK to trust Timmy, Porzingis, and Brunson to make a few shots and not drop an 11-28 lead in a matter of a couple minutes? They will have to at some point.

Where exactly have I ever said that this is the exact point the game was lost???? What I've stated numerous times is that momentum definitely changed at that point. Maybe I said the game was over at that point, but I don't every recall saying that. Who knows when the exact point is to pull them? I think sometimes deviations from a plan should happen and tonight was one of them. I'm trying to understand why you don't think this wasn't a momentum shifter and set a tone for the rest of the game.

[Grady Wilson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

What apples and apples?

There is a HUGE difference between Luka playing a 6min stretch between a breather or a 10-12min stretch, how is this so hard to understand?

The guy isnt standing half of the time in a corner waiting if a pass is coming. He is advancing the ball, setting the offense up, posting up nonstop etc etc, thats a huge workload. Way bigger than of any other Mavs or Kawhis or PGs. And it makes a huge difference if you have to do it for 6min in a row or twice as long. Thats why my example with the running for yourself

Ok. Did Jordan have the same kind of pattern for sitting on the bench? What about Magic? Especially in the playoffs? AGain, if he wants to rest in the regular season... fine. No problem. Playoffs? I'm sure he'd be okay with putting in a few more minutes.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

They shouldnt? Just because KP earns more?

they were 7-24 FGA combined while the four wing players of the Clippers were a combined 33-51 FGA. They laid an incredible egg on both ends as well

He's the 2nd best player, allegedly....

Through 3 games he is averaging 14pts 3.7rebs.

It's ok to be critical of the guy for not playing like a number 2 because he hasn't been remotely close. Luka and Kawhi have lived up to the billing. PG13 is murdering Porzingis as a 2nd option comparison.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by sefant77

They shouldnt? Just because KP earns more?

they were 7-24 FGA combined while the four wing players of the Clippers were a combined 33-51 FGA. They laid an incredible egg on both ends as well

KP deserves some blame but has anyone noticed that he really doesn't get many shots at all in this offense?

It's like some games you'll see the Mavs use him more with off the ball plays back door for lob's and layups when the defense collapse on Luka

But other games like today you'll see him have damn near less shots than everyone else in the lineup

He took 10 shots which was equal to or less than THJ, DFS, Brunson and Kleber

Unless the dude starts out hot I find it hard to believe he can get into any rhythm taking a shot like every 5 minutes or so.....

I think he's been solid shooting from the corner 3 spot this year but the Mavs don't really move him around much.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Why not?

I just don't get this babying Luka stuff with the minutes. Sure limit his minutes in the regular season but this is the playoffs lot's of stars play 40 minutes a game.

Has anyone paid attention to the Lakers and Suns series?

AD/LeBron and Booker/Ayton all play 40 minutes a night.

Luka is younger than all them so why is it a problem for Luka to play 40 minutes in the playoffs?

What are you actually saving him for at this point........

Lebron has played 36, 39, and 38 minutes.
AD has played 39, 40, and 40 minutes.
Luka has played 41, 38, and 39 minutes.

What are you talking about?

[Grady Wilson]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

He's the 2nd best player, allegedly....

Through 3 games he is averaging 14pts 3.7rebs.

It's ok to be critical of the guy for not playing like a number 2 because he hasn't been remotely close. Luka and Kawhi have lived up to the billing. PG13 is murdering Porzingis as a 2nd option comparison.

Exactly.... Seems as though if KP gets "trashed" it bothers some on here for some strange reason. The glaring fact is that he's not living up to his hype. Maybe everyone overrated his potential. I don't know. I hope he steps up for the remainder of the series and if he does then I'll gladly eat crow. For the vast majority of this series though he certainly hasn't given anyone confidence that he'll be a major factor.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Grady Wilson

Ok. Did Jordan have the same kind of pattern for sitting on the bench? What about Magic? Especially in the playoffs? AGain, if he wants to rest in the regular season... fine. No problem. Playoffs? I'm sure he'd be okay with putting in a few more minutes.

I know some tall baller from the G with the exact same substitution pattern. Won a ring with it too.

And again, has nothingto do with If he can do it or not. Of course he can. But with the result of shots ending up short, blown defense etc. We saw that more than enough when luka was overplayed or played too long stretches without break. He is then first shortterm gassed until he finally sits

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

Lebron has played 36, 39, and 38 minutes.
AD has played 39, 40, and 40 minutes.
Luka has played 41, 38, and 39 minutes.

What are you talking about?

Did you even read the comments

Someone asked if Luka should play 40 minutes a night and my response was why not

He's younger than AD/LeBron and Booker/Ayton

40 minutes a night in the playoffs should be expected for him plus you get more TV timeouts so if takes Luka playing 40-42 minutes a night in order to win so be it

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Grady Wilson

Exactly.... Seems as though if KP gets "trashed" it bothers some on here for some strange reason. The glaring fact is that he's not living up to his hype. Maybe everyone overrated his potential. I don't know. I hope he steps up for the remainder of the series and if he does then I'll gladly eat crow. For the vast majority of this series though he certainly hasn't given anyone confidence that he'll be a major factor.

Of course everyone has higher standards towards KP than to DFS or THJ. But its annoying when THJ and DFS have also garbage games but 99%of the blame goes to KP

[Grady Wilson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I know some tall baller from the G with the exact same substitution pattern. Won a ring with it too.

And again, has nothingto do with If he can do it or not. Of course he can. But with the result of shots ending up short, blown defense etc. We saw that more than enough when luka was overplayed or played too long stretches without break. He is then first shortterm gassed until he finally sits

Okay, fine. The whole point I've been making is that in the first quarter Carlisle shouldn't have pulled him so quickly. I've stated the reasons why earlier. When he sat him in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th I don't know honestly. IMO he sat him too early in the first.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Did you even read the comments

Someone asked if Luka should play 40 minutes a night and my response was why not

He's younger than AD/LeBron and Booker/Ayton

40 minutes a night in the playoffs should be expected for him plus you get more TV timeouts so if takes Luka playing 40-42 minutes a night in order to win so be it

Ah, I misunderstood your last sentences - sounded like you were saying that he played less than those other guys and questioning why the Mavs were saving him. My apologies.

And the reason you give him some rest is so he can still make shots when it matters late in the 4th.

[Grady Wilson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Of course everyone has higher standards towards KP than to DFS or THJ. But its annoying when THJ and DFS have also garbage games but 99%of the blame goes to KP

AGain, I've stated they didn't play well tonight. THJ gets somewhat of a pass because he's exceeded expectations this year and he played great the first two games. DFS is the 4th option at best on the team, so I don't know what level of expectation you have for him, but he's going to be inconsistent just like many 4th options are on pretty much any NBA team. No it doesn't give him a pass and he's certainly should contribute. The supposed higher profile players will always get called out when they play bad. Until KP can stay healthy and step up when it truly matters, he's going to get the blunt of the blame and again he should. Anyway, this is a circular discussion that's ran it's course tenfold and it seems as though you're a Porzingis fan which is fine. Just know that until he performs when it matters in this series he's going to get trashed. Goes with the territory...

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by Grady Wilson

Okay, fine. The whole point I've been making is that in the first quarter Carlisle shouldn't have pulled him so quickly. I've stated the reasons why earlier. When he sat him in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th I don't know honestly. IMO he sat him too early in the first.

Luka started off hot, but at the point that he was subbed out, it had been 4 full minutes since he had scored, and he had missed his last 2 shots.
He scored 11 of the teams first 14 points on 4 of 4 shooting, and 0 of their next 14 on 0 of 2 shooting. He wasn't the hot hand anymore.
For the record, Luka did play almost the entire 1st quarter in game 1, so it isn't like Carlisle never deviates from the standard plan. I think the information available at the time suggested that Luka might need a rest after playing really hard for 7 minutes, and the team should have been able to hold on without him for a few minutes.

[Jayinem]

KP gets 30 mil a year, but is playing like a 15 mil player.

There's no way he should get another max contract next time. Let him walk if someone wants to pay that and get 2 15 mil players, or by then 2 20 mil players. Or even better trade him before this one expires if we can get a decent return.

I've seen where the highest paid player is not the best player on the team, but I've never seen it where a max player is an afterthought. When you think of Mavs you don't think of KP. No one else currently on the roster even makes half of what he makes. If he was that guy and you combine him with Luka we'd be near unstoppable considering we're surrounded with shooters. In reality we're the 5 seed and that only happended with a late season surge. No one mentions the Mavs as title contenders.

He had a good enough season at 20 and 9 but needs multiple huge games in the playoffs where it counts. I think it's mostly a myth that he's a great defender as well there was some stats in New York that painted him as one but I haven't seen it in Dallas. If he was a great defender that averages 20 ppg with 9 rebounds he'd be worth it but he's not. I give him slightly above average overall due to excellent rim protection and shot blocking average on-ball bad off ball.

This series is far from over as well. If they win tomorrow they just stole homecourt advantage back. While it seems it's been a disadvantage so far that doesn't usually last for the entire 7 games.

[tap2390]

Porzingis is a mind blowing bad fit with Luka. A guy who can’t get his own bucket on the block/ isn’t willing to fight for position AND also isn’t a good roll man, preferring to pop. On defense, he struggles on the perimeter and is out of the picture after a single close out. Plain and simple Carlisle needs to limit his minutes, he is hurting us badly out there.

I think Richardson needs to start in his place.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Yet another tale of Luka and the b squad. Sad because it wasn't that way the first two games.

If KP doesn't show up, then the series will be lost. I've held off all of the hate all year long, but I think we've finally run out of excuses for him. Just force feed him the ball if you have to. It needs to be absolutely clear that he won't work on this team. I just can't for the life of me understand why he only took 10 shots?

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Half the team is almost on the court during regular play. They should really make them stay back

There is actually a rule where players cannot leave the bench area during a scuffle. They are supposed to be suspended a game if they do

[turin]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Porzingis is a mind blowing bad fit with Luka. A guy who can’t get his own bucket on the block/ isn’t willing to fight for position AND also isn’t a good roll man, preferring to pop. On defense, he struggles on the perimeter and is out of the picture after a single close out. Plain and simple Carlisle needs to limit his minutes, he is hurting us badly out there.



I think Richardson needs to start in his place.

I think the Mav's offensive system is one of KP's biggest problems. He ends up being the world's tallest shooting guard standing around on the perimeter.

Don't get me started about the defense. There is an option called a zone, and the Mavs do have an athletic defender named Green, but we already know how that option will play out.

The Mavs cannot outshoot opponents in a 7 game series playing no defense.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I know some tall baller from the G with the exact same substitution pattern. Won a ring with it too.

Again, Dirk was 33 at the time. I think his minutes needed to be watched closer than Luka

[DevinHarriswillstart]

KP's bad game aside, there was really very little chance of winning this game. Clips had a universe of pressure on them to win this. And the strategy of containing everyone but Luka worked.

And JB is now being underutilized for what he provides the team. If we lose game 4, then Rick needs some serious lineup changes that include giving him a major role.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Everyon can test it tomorrow. Go outside and run with high intensity for 6 minutes, rest 4 minutes and run then again 6. And later go out and run 11-12min and then see the difference how you handled the 2nd half of the minutes in both cases.

Thats basically the thing with Luka. Cant have him at this insane usage rate AND make him play stretches of 10+ minutes without tanking his game.

Of course you are correct on needing a blow. With the benefit of hindsight you could have played him the first 10 minutes of the 1st quarter and then take advantage of the built in end of quarter break so he is basically getting 10 minutes of real time rest before putting him back in at about 9 minutes left in 2nd quarter. My rotation for the playoffs would be to play him 10 and 9 in 1st and 2nd quarters respectively with the rest crossing the quarter end break.