kidd vs other pgs - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

scorched03 · 02-17-2008, 05:42 PM

lemme preface this by saying there is no way i know of to compare head to head matchups since all teams play different defenses and kidd may or may not guard others, etc etc. that and sample size is limited, so there are flaws just comparing pg vs. pg in these instances. plus kidd plays with some defensive slouches so he may have to cover for them too. so this is just straight head to head stat comparison.

that said, I compiled a listed of games among the better teams and their pg play for the other team. take a look.

there was no way this would work in these comment boxes, so i created it as a google spreadsheet

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...kWl695tTyvLQUA

still want him or not? some of the other pgs had field days against kidd, but kidd held his own and had some games with double digit assists. i never expect him to shoot well, so i threw that out the window, but if the other team's pg shot awfully well, then... i guess someone wasnt putting enough pressure on them.

horse900703 · 02-17-2008, 05:51 PM

dont have a google account

scorched03 · 02-17-2008, 05:55 PM

now fixed. dont need google acct to view it

StackAttack · 02-17-2008, 06:10 PM

...You do realize the Hornets no longer play in Charlotte, correct?

scorched03 · 02-17-2008, 06:12 PM

.

StackAttack · 02-17-2008, 06:13 PM

Then I guess you meant Felton/Knight, not Paul in reference to his stats against Charlotte.

G-Man · 02-17-2008, 06:54 PM

With Kidd, the key isn't in his numbers, but in him making it easier for others to score. Thats a hard thing to measure in statistics. If an open player takes 2 dribbles, or makes a pass to an even more open shooter, then there is no assist.

I will concede Kidd would aid the offense greatly. But the idea of smoke trails from Barbosa and Parker ... I'm not saying Kidd is a bad defender, but in comparison, he is definately a slow one.

endrity · 02-17-2008, 07:44 PM

one more thing to make me wonder, if I wasn't already

thereaper · 02-17-2008, 07:50 PM

The only thing that makes me wonder now is how much time Kidd has left. I've been watching these old all-star games all day and he was playing with a bunch of guys that are now retired. I was watching one earlier (98 methinks) that had NVE and Eddie Jones on the West, Tim and Penny Hardaway on the East :/

I mean it WAS 10 years ago...

scorched03 · 02-17-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

With Kidd, the key isn't in his numbers, but in him making it easier for others to score. Thats a hard thing to measure in statistics. If an open player takes 2 dribbles, or makes a pass to an even more open shooter, then there is no assist.

I will concede Kidd would aid the offense greatly. But the idea of smoke trails from Barbosa and Parker ... I'm not saying Kidd is a bad defender, but in comparison, he is definately a slow one.

yes that is hard to measure. wish it was easier like baseball stats: hitter vs. pitcher. part of the fun of bball.
but note this, for the high flying nets with jefferson and vc getting easy looks, the nets are shooting:
43.6% with 93.6 ppg, good for 3rd from last (heat, minny teams with much worse pgs)

would love to see how him vs. barbosa match up though.

thereaper · 02-17-2008, 07:55 PM

I wonder how long it takes for Kidd to get frustrated with Damp for not finishing on all his great interior passes...

twistaeffect2004 · 02-17-2008, 07:57 PM

PG Numbers vs. Harris

B.Davis: 14/26, 37 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists

T. Parker: 1/11, 7 points, 8 assists

M. Williams: 8/14, 19 points, 10 assists

C. Paul: 11/25, 33 points, 9 rebounds, 12 assists

T. Parker: 9/22, 23 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists

D. Williams: 13/20, 41 points, 7 assists

C. Paul: 9/21, 22 points, 2 rebounds, 4 assists

S. Nash: 9/15, 21 points, 18 assists

D. Williams: 7/15, 17 points, 7 rebounds, 12 assists

C. Billups: 6/14, 16 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists

sike · 02-18-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

PG Numbers vs. Harris

B.Davis: 14/26, 37 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists

T. Parker: 1/11, 7 points, 8 assists

M. Williams: 8/14, 19 points, 10 assists

C. Paul: 11/25, 33 points, 9 rebounds, 12 assists

T. Parker: 9/22, 23 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists

D. Williams: 13/20, 41 points, 7 assists

C. Paul: 9/21, 22 points, 2 rebounds, 4 assists

S. Nash: 9/15, 21 points, 18 assists

D. Williams: 7/15, 17 points, 7 rebounds, 12 assists

C. Billups: 6/14, 16 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists

you can't look at those numbers and say Devin hasn't gotten absolutely torched by some of the better guys...great post!

plus rep

DJ Mavs Fan · 02-18-2008, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thereaper

I wonder how long it takes for Kidd to get frustrated with Damp for not finishing on all his great interior passes...

Damp is half a center, Mavs better go out and get a big man...

What are the odds of Damp going a full season? +-0%

Flacolaco · 02-18-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thereaper

I wonder how long it takes for Kidd to get frustrated with Damp for not finishing on all his great interior passes...

I wonder how long it takes him to get frustrated that everyone on this team won't be finishing his great passes.

His assist numbers are going to go way down, me thinks.

Now if we ibky had a young PG that could get to the basket any time he wants, and keep tony parker in front of him....

sike · 02-18-2008, 12:42 AM

The Mavs must acquire another big man...or Brandon Bass needs a sudden huge growth spurt!!

sike · 02-18-2008, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I wonder how long it takes him to get frustrated that everyone on this team won't be finishing his great passes.

His assist numbers are going to go way down, me thinks.

Now if we ibky had a young PG that could get to the basket any time he wants, and keep tony parker in front of him....

1. His assists will go up with Dirk and JT hitting shots and with JHo getting easy hoops...you gotta remember Vince rarely attacks the hoop anymore..he is mostly a jump shooter now...only RJ still attacks with consistency

2. I don't think DH is really ever going to be a real floor general or playmaker....a game manager with great attacking skills is the most he will ever be. That aint all bad...

skylive321 · 02-18-2008, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

1. His assists will go up with Dirk and JT hitting shots and with JHo getting easy hoops...you gotta remember Vince rarely attacks the hoop anymore..he is mostly a jump shooter now...only RJ still attacks with consistency

2. I don't think DH is really ever going to be a real floor general or playmaker....a game manager with great attacking skills is the most he will ever be. That aint all bad...

How quickly we cast stones.. I really hope he develops into something big.. the kid deserves it.

sike · 02-18-2008, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

How quickly we cast stones.. I really hope he develops into something big.. the kid deserves it.

I thought this as he played for us...and I'm sure I was one of the most vocal supports of Devin starting on the entire forum.

no stones thrown here, newguy.

but saying Devin has shown signs of being a playmaker (other than for himself) or that he has the vision of a great passing point guard is absurd.

he could be Tony Parker...I would say the same things about Parker, by the way.

Rhylan · 02-18-2008, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thereaper

The only thing that makes me wonder now is how much time Kidd has left. I've been watching these old all-star games all day and he was playing with a bunch of guys that are now retired. I was watching one earlier (98 methinks) that had NVE and Eddie Jones on the West, Tim and Penny Hardaway on the East :/

I mean it WAS 10 years ago...

But that would've only been Kidd's 4th year. You know, the year that Devin is in.

Kidd's older, yep. I'll be thrilled with two years after this one. But dude is a hall of famer, easily. Devin will be lucky to make an All-Star game in his career, although being in the East, he's got a much, much better shot than he did out here with Paul & D. Williams holding it down for the next decade.

Rhylan · 02-18-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I thought this as he played for us...and I'm sure I was one of the most vocal supports of Devin starting on the entire forum.

no stones thrown here, newguy.

but saying Devin has shown signs of being a playmaker (other than for himself) or that he has the vision of a great passing point guard is absurd.

he could be Tony Parker...I would say the same things about Parker, by the way.

I would've agreed 12-18 months ago, but sitting where we are today, I don't know if he could catch TP at this point. Still having not seen the emergence of a Parker-like teardrop from Devin bugged me much more than an inconsistent jumper or lack of ball movement. It just made me wonder if Devin's quickness is the only basis for his spurts of excellence.

DJ Mavs Fan · 02-18-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

The Mavs must acquire another big man...or Brandon Bass needs a sudden huge growth spurt!!

Who's out there Sike, can the Mavs sign the Birdman for the MLE?

skylive321 · 02-18-2008, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I thought this as he played for us...and I'm sure I was one of the most vocal supports of Devin starting on the entire forum.

no stones thrown here, newguy.

but saying Devin has shown signs of being a playmaker (other than for himself) or that he has the vision of a great passing point guard is absurd.

he could be Tony Parker...I would say the same things about Parker, by the way.

i hear ya..... I'm pretty sure I said, I hoped he developed into something big though. Key word, Hope. And call me newguy, old guy and whatever else makes you feel superior. We're all equal fans in the eyes of mister cuban and the sith lord david stern.

sike · 02-18-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

i hear ya..... I'm pretty sure I said, I hoped he developed into something big though. Key word, Hope. And call me newguy, old guy and whatever else makes you feel superior. We're all equal fans in the eyes of mister cuban and the sith lord david stern.

I'm positive you accused me of throwing stones...but did so without understanding what a huge fan of DH I am...and will be.

no harm meant...just don't make accusations when you don't have the info.

I agree with you that I "hope" Devin is a huge success.

skylive321 · 02-18-2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I'm positive you accused me of throwing stones...but did so without understanding what a huge fan of DH I am...and will be.

no harm meant...just don't make accusations when you don't have the info.

I agree with you that I "hope" Devin is a huge success.

chumdawg · 02-18-2008, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

i hear ya..... I'm pretty sure I said, I hoped he developed into something big though. Key word, Hope. And call me newguy, old guy and whatever else makes you feel superior. We're all equal fans in the eyes of mister cuban and the sith lord david stern.

Some of us are more equal than others. Don't take on my boy Sike. Else I will have to make you look foolish--or, closer to the truth, more foolish than you already look.

skylive321 · 02-18-2008, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Some of us are more equal than others. Don't take on my boy Sike. Else I will have to make you look foolish--or, closer to the truth, more foolish than you already look.

sike · 02-18-2008, 01:27 AM

I look forward to you posting more often for the rest of the season now that Kidd is on his way, sl.

edited to add "ing"

chumdawg · 02-18-2008, 01:29 AM

skylive, I think this is a good opportunity for you to apologize to Sike and bow down before his greatness.

Though, I would recommend that you don't stay down there too long...

skylive321 · 02-18-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

skylive, I think this is a good opportunity for you to apologize to Sike and bow down before his greatness.

Though, I would recommend that you don't stay down there too long...

I take it you're bored and need someone to chat with over random topics... I use www.alicebot.org sometimes.

sike · 02-18-2008, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

I take it you're bored and need someone to chat with over random topics... I use www.alicebot.org sometimes.

no apology needed...but here is a little free advice: Don't mess with Chum unless you are willing to wage an endless war of words...

oh, and he is pretty funny when he gets angry.

chumdawg · 02-18-2008, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

I take it you're bored and need someone to chat with over random topics... I use www.alicebot.org sometimes.

If I'm bored, it's not because I need someone to "chat with." It's because there seems no one at present that I can pound into rhetorical submission.

Don't be that guy. I'm in too good a mood tonight. Jason Kidd is returning to town to rescue his moribund franchise!

Dirkadirkastan · 02-18-2008, 01:44 AM

I am looking forward to seeing Chumdawg's official pardon to Mark Cuban. That is, if he does indeed choose to pardon him.

skylive321 · 02-18-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If I'm bored, it's not because I need someone to "chat with." It's because there seems no one at present that I can pound into rhetorical submission.

Don't be that guy. I'm in too good a mood tonight. Jason Kidd is returning to town to rescue his moribund franchise!

The Return of Kidd is giving me the Kwan too. So i feel you. But check the last 5 or six posts upward and be honest, who accosted who?

chumdawg · 02-18-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I am looking forward to seeing Chumdawg's official pardon to Mark Cuban. That is, if he does indeed choose to pardon him.

Rest assured, it's coming the minute this trade does down. If indeed it does, that is.

Underdog · 02-18-2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If I'm bored, it's not because I need someone to "chat with." It's because there seems no one at present that I can pound into rhetorical submission.

Don't be that guy. I'm in too good a mood tonight. Jason Kidd is returning to town to rescue his moribund franchise!

If Chum's happy, then good things must be around the corner...

The NBA: where renewed faith happens(?)

skylive321 · 02-18-2008, 01:48 AM

I really hope this kidd thing works out. I see us at the 3rd or 2nd seed by the end of the season. do you guys?

chumdawg · 02-18-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

The Return of Kidd is giving me the Kwan too. So i feel you. But check the last 5 or six posts upward and be honest, who accosted who?

Well, you kinda accosted my boy Sike. Or, if you didn't, maybe it was that singular emoticon response--repeated several times--that got on my nerves. Say what you think, man.

Underdog · 02-18-2008, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

I really hope this kidd thing works out. I see us at the 3rd or 2nd seed by the end of the season. do you guys?

Kobe's thumb...

Shaq's speed/stamina...

The Spurs' injuries/age......

Who beats us out for the #1 spot again?

(okay, maybe I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here...)

skylive321 · 02-18-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Well, you kinda accosted my boy Sike. Or, if you didn't, maybe it was that singular emoticon response--repeated several times--that got on my nerves. Say what you think, man.

Me and Sike are cool man. I get where you're coming from though.