Dallas @ Greenbay thread.

[FineCubanCigar]

Parcells doesn't need to change, he is one of the best ever.name 3 other coaches you wuld rather have, not including the NE disciple or please quit suggesting "everything is Parcells' Fault, he is washed up, he lost his Magic from just one season ago.... omg the sky is falling ......"

[sike]

FCC, who has said "everthing is Parcells' Fault"? I certainly did not.
at the very least many of the moves he has made have turned out to be less than positives for this year's team. on a personal note, his arrogance is really offputting. I would just like once to hear him admit fault for unwise playcalling or poor use of time outs or challenges...not just so I could say "told you so", but because there is fault to be laid all around and Bill seems more than willing, ready, and able to dole it out to everyone but himself. I think the guy is one of the greatest coaches ever...probably top ten. But I also think there is a less than zero chance this game has passed him by.

[dirno2000]

He's accepted fault. He's not going go point for point and say "this is my fault, this isn’t'", but ultimately it all falls on him. That was the theme of today's press conference. He admitted that he's mismanaged the team.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
Parcells doesn't need to change, he is one of the best ever.name 3 other coaches you wuld rather have, not including the NE disciple or please quit suggesting "everything is Parcells' Fault, he is washed up, he lost his Magic from just one season ago.... omg the sky is falling ......"

I don't think Parcells is washed up. He is a great coach. Unfortunately his methods are outdated. When Parcells won before it was pre-salary cap (or the very early days of the cap). Teams were assembled differently back then. Now winning teams rely on their draft to provide two to three immediate starters to compensate for the free agency losses. Parcells is not capable of doing that - he doesn't trust rookies and he can't tolerate their mistakes. But you HAVE to now. There isn't time to let the players grow into a role, they have to assume that role immediately.

Another coach who could not adjust to the cap was Jimmy Johnson. He couldn't adjust on the fly every year so his teams didn't excel.

[sike]

all he said today were vagaries...when he says "mismanaged" and I say it....we are talking about very different things.

He's accepted fault.

if you believe this...the you would probably also believe that he might change in some way to help better direct this team in the near future...what do you think he would admit he needs to change?(player management? play calling? draft selections? game managemetn? player development?) I don't think he believes he needs to change anything REALLY...I think he would say the players need to execute better... Time will tell if Parcells really believes he needs to change anything.

[dirno2000]

Originally posted by: Max Power

I don't think Parcells is washed up. He is a great coach. Unfortunately his methods are outdated. When Parcells won before it was pre-salary cap (or the very early days of the cap). Teams were assembled differently back then. Now winning teams rely on their draft to provide two to three immediate starters to compensate for the free agency losses. Parcells is not capable of doing that - he doesn't trust rookies and he can't tolerate their mistakes. But you HAVE to now. There isn't time to let the players grow into a role, they have to assume that role immediately.

Another coach who could not adjust to the cap was Jimmy Johnson. He couldn't adjust on the fly every year so his teams didn't excel.

Parcells rebuilt the Pats and the Jets in the cap era. Both of those teams were god awful before he arrived.

He'll play rookies. He started Newman from day one, Whitten got playing time last year, Zuriel Smith was a rookie, Al Johnson is essentially a rookie this season, he started 7th rounder Jacques Reeves a couple of games. Not to mention Terry Glen in N.E. and Curtis Martin with the Jets.

The way this team is being managed is consistent with cap era. Build through the draft and don't overspend on FA's unless you're ready to take the next step. The problem is a number of our high picks are getting hurt or not producing.

[dirno2000]

if you believe this...the you would probably also believe that he might change in some way to help better direct this team in the near future...what do you think he would admit he needs to change?(player management? play calling? draft selections? game managemetn? player development?) I don't think he believes he needs to change anything REALLY...I think he would say the players need to execute better... Time will tell if Parcells really believes he needs to change anything.

That all you're going to get right...vagaries. he's guarded in his approach to running a franchise and it's not just because of the losing streak. he's been like that since he got here. That's why there are no more one on one's, and he cut off the media's access to his assistants. He’s not going to go into detail and give you his step by step plan. While indicting himself, he would also be indicting others. For instance, if he say’s he’s drafted poorly, he’s publicly knocking his draftees and his scouts. His history tells me he has on and I'll go with that for now.

An you're right about his arrogance, but that doesn't bother me. To achieve his level of success you have to be highly confident and the confidence /arrogance line can be pretty thin. I also think that if he doubted himself too much, the team would follow.

I think the media (and sike) want Bill to say: I've done this, this and that wrong and I'll do this, this and that to correct it. In the end none of it matters. It's good talk show fodder, but if he doesn't win he'll still get ripped.

If I could steal Chumdawg's sig for a minute: Don't tell me about the pain. Just show me the baby.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: dirno2000
Parcells rebuilt the Pats and the Jets in the cap era. Both of those teams were god awful before he arrived.

The salary cap started in 1993. The effects of the salary cap didn't start hitting with full force for the first half dozen years because of the various exemptions that have since been phased out. Besides that, Parcells overall record with the Pats was 32-32, his three years with the Jets have one 8-8 campaign and one 9-7. That's hardly

He'll play rookies. He started Newman from day one, Whitten got playing time last year, Zuriel Smith was a rookie, Al Johnson is essentially a rookie this season, he started 7th rounder Jacques Reeves a couple of games. Not to mention Terry Glen in N.E. and Curtis Martin with the Jets.

Newman was the FIFTH pick in the draft - he'd better play. Whitten averaged about 2 catches per game for last year's team - a team looking for a reliable player to help out Carter. Two catches per game is barely playing. Glenn was the SEVENTH pick in the draft and Martin was special from day one.

The way this team is being managed is consistent with cap era. Build through the draft and don't overspend on FA's unless you're ready to take the next step. The problem is a number of our high picks are getting hurt or not producing.

I disagree. Our team is being mismanaged.

[dirno2000]

The salary cap started in 1993. The effects of the salary cap didn't start hitting with full force for the first half dozen years because of the various exemptions that have since been phased out. Besides that, Parcells overall record with the Pats was 32-32, his three years with the Jets have one 8-8 campaign and one 9-7. That's hardly

I disagree with your point about when the effect of the salary cap kicked in. As a Cowboy fan you should know that it hit us almost immediately and started corroding our dept. If that's the case then your Jimmy example is invalid since he stopped coaching in 99' the year you say the cap really kicked in.

You know Parcells' overall record is misleading. Those teams won about two games each the year before he showed up. He made both of them Super Bowl contenders (in the cap era) and more importantly, he made them better organizations. They remained strong organizations even after he left, and to this day his signature is on both teams.

Newman was the FIFTH pick in the draft - he'd better play. Whitten averaged about 2 catches per game for last year's team - a team looking for a reliable player to help out Carter. Two catches per game is barely playing. Glenn was the SEVENTH pick in the draft and Martin was special from day one.

Your comment was that he doesn't play rookies, not you qualifying it. Of course the rookies that play for him tend to be higher picks...I’m sure that’s true across the board since those players are supposedly more NFL ready.

And since when did we starting measuring a tight ends playing time on his average catches per game? That's a bizarre measure, especially for TE's since they're blockers also. Whitten played in every game when he wasn't hurt. His productivity picked up as he got more comfortable in the offense.

When Hunter went down, we could have traded for and given a big contract to Mckenzie. Instead we started a rookie 7th rounder for a couple of games until we could find a cheap veteran.

You argument about managing the cap may apply to Joe Gibbs who came in and immediately starting signing high priced vets. If anything the Cowboys have erred on the side of caution, hording cap room and draft picks. That's how you build in the cap era. You draft well, pay your own players and bargain hunt. That's exactly what we're doing; it's just that a couple of our picks aren't panning out.

[Bayliss]

I'll state it again. Bill Parcells has turned the Cowboys into Jets-Lite.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

I think the lack of a running game is really hurting us this year. George brings absolutely nothing to the table in my oh so spoiled by emmitt eyes. I wish I could have gotten a better look at Julius. Until then, I'll try to not call for Parcells' head anymore. I will say this -- not that my opinion matters -- having parcells at the helm certainly gives a sense of progression I hadn't significantly felt since Jimmy left. and I like that Parcells sees something wrong with the team. I think he's a smart guy, and I think he'll be able to get us back on the right track. At the least, get us back to playing decent defense. Now if he gets us to the playoffs THIS year, I don't think I'd be able to doubt him ever again.

[sike]

I think the media (and sike) want Bill to say: I've done this, this and that wrong and I'll do this, this and that to correct it.

let me tell you what I think...I would like Bill to take responcibility when time outs are mismanged calls are questionable, player usage is seemingly incorrect...and when his team is not palying passionate football. I don't want him to put down his players, coaches, scouts, or owner...I would like him to be more willing to point the arrow of blame at himself and less on others. For what its worth (little), that is what sike thinks.

[Windmill360]

All this crappy football and they still expect to get a new stadium? Sheesh..

[FineCubanCigar]

is it Parcell's fault the defense sucks or zimmer's?

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: Max Power

I don't think Parcells is washed up. He is a great coach. Unfortunately his methods are outdated. When Parcells won before it was pre-salary cap (or the very early days of the cap). Teams were assembled differently back then. Now winning teams rely on their draft to provide two to three immediate starters to compensate for the free agency losses. Parcells is not capable of doing that - he doesn't trust rookies and he can't tolerate their mistakes. But you HAVE to now. There isn't time to let the players grow into a role, they have to assume that role immediately.

Max, what is it with you and the rookie thing? I think you are digging your own grave here, but I'll give you a chance to prove your point. Name me one GOOD team that starts three rookies. If you can do that, I'll give you a special prize. Better question would be to name one team in the bottom half of the draft that starts even two. I don't know where you get this idea that almost half your draft is supposed to step in and start right away.

Now, in their second year, maybe. How about the first four Cowboys picks from last year? Newman, Johnson, Witten, and James. Three starters and a guy who gets a lot of playing time. Not too shabby.

Max, do you realize how many rookies are on the Cowboys roster? Do you realize how many "virtual" rookies there are, too, especially when you consider the QB position? Do you realize how many guys with three years experience or less get significant playing time on this team? Finally, do you think the number of seasoned veterans on this team is significantly higher than the number on other teams, especially good teams?

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: chumdawg
I'll give you a chance to prove your point. Name me one GOOD team that starts three rookies. If you can do that, I'll give you a special prize.

Minnesota is starting 5 rookies and 3 2nd year players.

Mewelde Moore - Rookie
Richard Owens - Rookie
Nate Burleson - 2nd year
Nat Dorsey - Rookie
Sean Berton - 2nd year
Kevin Williams - 2nd year
Kenechi Udeze - Rookie
Dontarrious Thomas - Rookie

San Diego starts 3 rookies and 3 2nd year players.

Shane Olivea - Rookie
Nick Hardwick - Rookie
Igor Olshansky - Rookie
Antonio Gates - 2nd year
Terrence Kiel - 2nd year
Sammy Davis - 2nd year

Since we aren't a good team either (although SD is 4-3 right now) then we should be starting a lot of young players too.

What is my prize?

BTW the Jets and the Steelers start two rookies.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
is it Parcell's fault the defense sucks or zimmer's?

Obviously, it's a combination of factors. Parcells is the GM and he did a horrible job of addressing the needs on defense going into the season including but not limited to cornerback, defensive end, and safety.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: Max Power

Minnesota is starting 5 rookies and 3 2nd year players.

Mewelde Moore - Rookie
Richard Owens - Rookie
Nate Burleson - 2nd year
Nat Dorsey - Rookie
Sean Berton - 2nd year
Kevin Williams - 2nd year
Kenechi Udeze - Rookie
Dontarrious Thomas - Rookie

San Diego starts 3 rookies and 3 2nd year players.

Shane Olivea - Rookie
Nick Hardwick - Rookie
Igor Olshansky - Rookie
Antonio Gates - 2nd year
Terrence Kiel - 2nd year
Sammy Davis - 2nd year

Since we aren't a good team either (although SD is 4-3 right now) then we should be starting a lot of young players too.

What is my prize?

BTW the Jets and the Steelers start two rookies.

Good job. I'll have to think of an appropriate prize.

I had no idea Minny started so many rookies. That's remarkable. But of course, they are more the exception than the rule.

San Diego hardly should count for three, since one of those is a kicker. That's hardly a position where you worry too much about youth.

And of course, one of the Steelers' rookies is the QB. We could be going that route, too, if we wanted to play Henson. Maybe it's best to let Henson learn for a year, though. And maybe Henson is no Ben Roethlisberger.

Now, if all the Cowboys' rooks had stayed healthy, we very well could have seen three of them starting by the end of the year. Plus a kick returner. Maybe we should wait until next year to judge this year's draft class. Last year's class looks pretty good overall.

[Max Power]

San Diego hardly should count for three, since one of those is a kicker. That's hardly a position where you worry too much about youth.

I didn't even think to look for kickers - these were all position players. I didn't look at special teamers either.

And while good teams don't necessarily start a lot of rookies, bad teams generally do. We are a bad team.