2017 NBA Draft - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Bryan_Wilson · 11-23-2016, 01:56 PM

Here's an article from 2 days ago fwiw- https://theringer.com/nba-teams-that...347#.ao0s3ikpv

Quote:

One team front-office executive told me that he thinks Dallas will tank only if it finds out Dirk isn’t effective or healthy enough to play every game. If that happens, there would be “plenty” of interest in center Andrew Bogut. Though Bogut turns 33 this season, he’s still an elite rim protector and rebounder who would boost a team’s playoff chances. If the Mavericks were able to acquire valuable assets for a pending free agent in Bogut, and then hit it big in the draft, they would have a nice blend of talent moving forward.

I'm not sure how much stock to put into "one team front-office executive" admittedly.

Here's some good articles on some of the draft prospects at the top.
https://theringer.com/three-nba-pros...a40#.isvl8e7xn (Fultz, Jackson, Giles)
https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft...653#.bvhfb4s3t ("top 6 pg")

tap2390 · 11-23-2016, 01:57 PM

IMO getting rid of Bogut isn't as important as doing whatever it takes to move Wes. If we have to give up any combo of Curry, Gibson, Anderson, Powell, or Salah to do it I'm all for it. As a rebuilding team we need young guys and cap room and if an opportunity for a trade arises, it arises. This is how the Celtics and Rockets were able to rebuild.

Edit: Bogut does have value for contenders this year, but I haven't been able to locate a situation/ trade that works. The Cavs and Celtics seem like the obvious choices but the only possibility I see is Bogut + young'n for Amir Johnson + second round pick, or so.

Bryan_Wilson · 11-23-2016, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Bogut does have value for contenders this year, but I haven't been able to locate a situation/ trade that works. The Cavs and Celtics seem like the obvious choices but the only possibility I see is Bogut + young'n for Amir Johnson + second round pick, or so.

Yeah I think it would have to be for the next group of teams in the playoffs. Maybe even the ones on the cusp of making a playoffs. That first one is sometimes most important for the morale of a team or for getting players to stay in free agency. A team like the Blazers have lots of contracts that would make it work and they are under-performing. So maybe they are willing to part ways with an asset or future asset. Same with the Pels, prolly would love to get rid of Asik, who I want no part of... unless a 1st round pick is attached then I could go for it. There is also the inevitable injury that will strike. Remember when Portland lost Wes and gave up a 1st for Afflalo. Maybe someone like Deandre Jordan gets hurt, like maybe even tonight(i'm not wishing it honest), and they would be willing to lose a late 1st for a Bogut rental since BG32 and CP3 are nearing the end of their contracts. Of course it would mean Doc would have to trade his son away which, lets face it- he'd rather trade away BG32 for picks but you get the idea anyway

rimrocker · 11-23-2016, 02:39 PM

Maybe some of you GMers can help me out here. Maybe I'm missing something but it just seems that Mejri would be an ideal piece to add to a PO contending team.
I'd think OKC would want him bad after the multiple great games he had against them last season. The chicken feed he is making would be a nice Mejri for a 2nd rounder deal imo.

BPo001 · 11-23-2016, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Maybe some of you GMers can help me out here. Maybe I'm missing something but it just seems that Mejri would be an ideal piece to add to a PO contending team.
I'd think OKC would want him bad after the multiple great games he had against them last season. The chicken feed he is making would be a nice Mejri for a 2nd rounder deal imo.

They just paid Adams and Kanter. Where would Mejri fit?

Bryan_Wilson · 11-23-2016, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Maybe some of you GMers can help me out here. Maybe I'm missing something but it just seems that Mejri would be an ideal piece to add to a PO contending team.
I'd think OKC would want him bad after the multiple great games he had against them last season. The chicken feed he is making would be a nice Mejri for a 2nd rounder deal imo.

I think only place I can see Salah going for a 2nd would be Cleveland. They are over the tax line so his small salary helps them the most. They have some trade exceptions to get someone better but I'm not sure how much more tax they are willing to spend with the new penalties. And a 2nd from Cleveland is a glorified undrafted FA. Possibly Clippers I suppose if Speights got hurt.

Bryan_Wilson · 11-23-2016, 06:42 PM

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/dra...rafts/detailed
-Edit- http://www.tankathon.com/power_rankings easier to view picks from this site.

Here's an interesting one... Currently Sixers own Lakers pick and it's only top 3 protected. So in all likelihood it's going to Philly. What if the Mavs get the #1 pick just for argument sake. Then Philly gets the 3rd or 4th pick. Would you trade the 1st pick to Philly for the #3/4 pick AND the Lakers pick which could be a borderline lotto pick (12-18 area). This is a really deep draft I think that could be tempting unless one of these guys just became a clear best player candidate. Another one... we have the 31st pick in this same scenario... would you then trade that pick to move down 2 spots and get the 76ers 2nd plus the pick a few spots later currently the NO's pick(76ers owe their 2nd to NO's so trade would be with NO's).

I guess then the question is, how far down are you willing to go to pick up the additional pick? 1st and 2nd round.

Melonhead · 11-23-2016, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

IMO getting rid of Bogut isn't as important as doing whatever it takes to move Wes. If we have to give up any combo of Curry, Gibson, Anderson, Powell, or Salah to do it I'm all for it. As a rebuilding team we need young guys and cap room and if an opportunity for a trade arises, it arises. This is how the Celtics and Rockets were able to rebuild.

Edit: Bogut does have value for contenders this year, but I haven't been able to locate a situation/ trade that works. The Cavs and Celtics seem like the obvious choices but the only possibility I see is Bogut + young'n for Amir Johnson + second round pick, or so.

Unfortunately Wes isnt going anywhere. Bogut has no place on a tanking team and needs to go to a bubble contender ASAP and get what we can. He's not doing the Mavs or himself any good right now. Before December is over I wouldnt be surprised if he's close to being moved.

EricaLubarsky · 11-23-2016, 09:46 PM

61%-44%

Decent scoring. Just can't defend

Bryan_Wilson · 11-24-2016, 01:29 AM

Not to derail the draft talk but-
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...nd-omri-casspi

Quote:

Vardon threw out the names of Deron Williams and D.J. Augustin as more realistic options. Both players signed new contracts this offseason—and are thus unavailable until Dec. 15—but are part of struggling teams that may be eager to shed salary and get out from under those deals.

The Cavs have leftover trade exceptions and a 2017 first-round pick they can use to sweeten any offer, though they're short on young disposable talent.

Please Cavs be interested. Please Dwill be interested. Please give us late 1st.

Underdog · 11-24-2016, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Not to derail the draft talk but-
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...nd-omri-casspi

Please Cavs be interested. Please Dwill be interested. Please give us late 1st.

ALL the picks!

Budapest Maverick · 11-24-2016, 02:56 AM

Screw drafting for need guys, you take the guy with the highest upside. If it is Fueltz, it is him, if it is Jackson, it is him. I love Smith's game, but that ACL scares me.

sefant77 · 11-25-2016, 08:45 AM

If you think that you are going to get a franchise player with your own single pick, you are not trading down...

sike · 12-06-2016, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

If you think that you are going to get a franchise player with your own single pick, you are not trading down...

Arggggg, unless you're convinced that you're "smarter than the room"

rimrocker · 12-07-2016, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Arggggg, unless you're convinced that you're "smarter than the room"

That might apply to Donnie but Mark will want the sexy pick.

Melonhead · 11-25-2016, 11:13 AM

Now I could get on board with Dwill to Cavs, but you never know. DWill might not/Dirk might not like that idea. Does that push Dirk into making up his mind to retire at the end of the season?

In that same article, it talked about Rudy Gay going to the Thunder. I think that would be a great move for them. I want to see Westbrook succeed without Durant (low chance).

tap2390 · 11-25-2016, 12:54 PM

Put me in the quality over quantity department. As far as trades go, I think Dirk has always understood that the organization will do what's best for the organization. Yes we need to consult him and make him aware of any moves, but to not make a trade that's good for our future because the Dirk likes the player(s) being traded is dumb (IMO).

Budapest Maverick · 11-26-2016, 06:37 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hjkkrwoias

Ridiculous talent, looks like rookie Wade with a three point shot. Not as explosive (though close), but even MORE fluid. In fact, I think that ridiculous fluidity what makes him look less athletic than he actually is. So far he is easily the top pick, but of course it is still early.

Budapest Maverick · 11-26-2016, 06:41 AM

Ball has a super high ceiling too, Smith too! Ball is actually an upper echelon athlete and likely the best passer out of all, but that jumpshot is ugly at the moment. He could still be a Ricky Rubio on steroids, though probably not as good on defense, but better overall. Smith could be the next CP3, but that knee scares me. Regardless, if we get a top 3 pick, we would have a very good chance of drafting a franchise player!

hayth.james.g · 11-26-2016, 11:04 AM

The more I watch Fultz the more impressed I am. Im not sure I love the Harden comparison, but that might be my pure blind hate for the Rockets talking.

Melonhead · 11-26-2016, 11:17 AM

You take away the beard, the douchey flopping in the lane, non defense, and forget the fact that his name is James Harden, and there is a lot to his game to like.

I understand the comparison because Fultz never looks like he's in a hurry but knows how to attack a defense. I think he's the surest thing out of the players being discussed.

Smith is pure athleticism and already ACL. Not sustainable.

Lonzo wont be slicing up defenses in the NBA with his driving ability, and that jumper is hideous.

Now if Fultz isnt available when we pick, of course Im fine with either of Smith, Ball.

Thebo · 12-07-2016, 02:50 AM

http://www.lkl.lt/zaidejas/2382875/

Why are people still talking about Isiah Hartenstein? It could end up easier to trade 2nd pick up to get this guy. He is playing for Kaunas Zalgiris which is strong club in Europe, yet he is not even in starting five. Hard to imagine he goes before 1st round 20th pick at the moment. Most of projections about him were done a year ago, something has happened or those projections were too high.

He does provide defense, but what position will you play him? It is still unclear if Barnes ends up at SF or PF. If we are talking about drafting guy like Hartenstein, I would still prefer Lauri Markkanen who resembles Dirk more than Isiah + gives offense and size + is already getting basketball experience in the States.

WILL NOT GIVE UP FULTZ though.

mac222b · 12-07-2016, 04:20 AM

Everybody seems sold on Fultz in here. I kinda liked Smith. Smoother athlete. Purer PG

Thebo · 12-07-2016, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Everybody seems sold on Fultz in here. I kinda liked Smith. Smoother athlete. Purer PG

It is not that people do not like Smith. It is that people do not like ACL injuries.

MavzMan · 12-07-2016, 08:57 AM

At this point, it appears that Fultz and Jackson are the franchise players in this draft. Smith may be as well. Always remember, success in this league is driven by franchise players. Don't pass up those guys to get an extra better than average guy. How many times in the last 30 years have teams won with only above average? Detroit Pistons is the only one that comes to my mind.

As for Hartenstein, he really looks like an international and younger version of Barnes. I would love to have the guy but he's playing the same position and style. I don't see that working long term.

MavzMan · 12-07-2016, 09:01 AM

I'm half joking but Sixers should not be allowed to be in the top 5. They have had top 3 in 4 of the last 7 years ... and they are still at the bottom of the league?

EricaLubarsky · 12-07-2016, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I'm half joking but Sixers should not be allowed to be in the top 5. They have had top 3 in 4 of the last 7 years ... and they are still at the bottom of the league?

I think that that's legitimate. If you get four top-3 picks and still suck, there should be a "hopeless" clause. Maybe take two years with a top-10 protection. Other teams will rise and it will be better for the league than sending top talent to a crappy team who will stay crappy.

The league benefits from exciting new talent and teams rising and falling. A team that simply wastes talent and stays at the bottom like a mob hit victim at the bottom of the Chicago River is actually harmful to the NBA.

sefant77 · 12-07-2016, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I'm half joking but Sixers should not be allowed to be in the top 5. They have had top 3 in 4 of the last 7 years ... and they are still at the bottom of the league?

Sixers did what they had to do. After trading Noel or Okafor and getting another lottery pick they are done rebuilding. Ah and btw i trade our 2017 pick for Embiid without blinking twice.

And we are heading into several years at the bottom of the league too.

Thebo · 12-07-2016, 09:23 AM

Mavs also needs to focus on PG. Currently the market is really tight with them. If you are not getting Anthony Davis type of guy in the draft, then I think Barnes needs to have strong point guard to complement his game.

EricaLubarsky · 12-07-2016, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

Mavs also needs to focus on PG. Currently the market is really tight with them. If you are not getting Anthony Davis type of guy in the draft, then I think Barnes needs to have strong point guard to complement his game.

Agreed.

Markelle seems like the best fit next to Barnes. Their games are very complimentary. Fultz can hit the three to spread the floor and he is effective in the PnR (Barnes is 70% when receiving in the PnR. A Fultz-Barnes PnR could be as killer as the Dirk-Terry PnR).

saclare · 12-07-2016, 02:58 PM

Give me Fultz. Kid has such a smooth game, he makes it look effortless.

As for others: Jackson is a stud, Smith is explosive, Isaac could continue to grow and develop, Giles and Tatum will probably grow on most once they play, Ball is a playmaker though needs to work on shooting, same with Fox.

Not sold on Monk, Adebayo, the Euro players, Bolden, Bridges. At least not as high in the draft as we project to pick.

I'm intrigued with who we could get at the top of round 2, as well. Of course, like with the above, much can change up until the draft, namely who declares in respect to the depth and top of round 2. But guys like Graham, Hicks, Kennard, Bryant, Kingsley, J. Jackson, it could get interesting...

rimrocker · 12-07-2016, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

I'm intrigued with who we could get at the top of round 2, as well. Of course, like with the above, much can change up until the draft, namely who declares in respect to the depth and top of round 2. But guys like Graham, Hicks, Kennard, Bryant, Kingsley, J. Jackson, it could get interesting...

If OG Anunoby is available for our 2nd rnd pick we need to take him even though we are loaded at that position.
Another intriguing player would be Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk if he comes out. A junior at Kansas but only 19 (actually younger than Josh Jackson) and could be a long-term solution at SG.

saclare · 12-08-2016, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

If OG Anunoby is available for our 2nd rnd pick we need to take him even though we are loaded at that position.
Another intriguing player would be Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk if he comes out. A junior at Kansas but only 19 (actually younger than Josh Jackson) and could be a long-term solution at SG.

OG would be a steal at this point in the 2nd. He's more likely to go in the 20s.

Melonhead · 12-08-2016, 06:42 PM

Fultz
Harris
Wes
Barnes
Dirk?/?

On board with the starting 5, but that center...

Bryan_Wilson · 12-08-2016, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Fultz
Harris
Wes
Barnes
Dirk?/?

On board with the starting 5, but that center...

Honestly not sure if Harris is here next year with that partial guarantee. And I think even if we get Fultz he's going to come off the bench to start his career. The only time I really see rookie pg's start are for teams that have fully embraced a rebuild(multiple years). I'm still not convinced this isn't going to be just a 1 year "organic tank" and then back to free agency plans as usual. We are set up in a way that we could have under 10m cap space or over 30m cap space. But I do think that they will try to sign the players they target to be competitive first, and if they can't sign them then we might see them fully rebuild which Fultz would likely start then.

And while the topic of the starting 5 is up, I would like to say that a perfect fit to me for the Mavs in free agency next year is Serge Ibaka. He can play small 5 against teams today and he can be a stretch 4. So he spaces the floor, he can switch defenders well, and he adds some shot blocking. He can also roll to the rim well so in a pnr heavy offense he could roll or pop making him pretty good for this offense more than likely. He's also 27 and fits in well with Barnes age where he's not so young that he needs to learn how to win but not so old that the window is a short time. I'd be on the door for Ibaka instead of chasing some inevitable pipe dream of BG32 or something that we will probably try.

MavzMan · 12-07-2016, 06:13 PM

Fultz really resembles a UCLA Russel Westbrook in their playstyle. And I would love to have a Westbrook to pair with Barnes.

spreedom · 12-08-2016, 09:03 PM

If we didn't get my first choice of Noel as our franchise center, I'd be totally cool with 4-5 years of Ibaka. He's started to play well after a pretty rough start in Orlando and with their roster composition, I could easily see him bolting this summer.

mac222b · 12-09-2016, 02:12 AM

That Ibaka trade was a strange one for Orlando. Oladipo and Sabonis is a lot to give up for a guy on a one year deal with no guarantee of re-signing. It's not like they were one piece away...from even the playoffs, apparently.

saclare · 12-09-2016, 10:43 AM

What if the Mavs were somehow able to pull off a Nerlens Noel trade and attract Ibaka in FA? This would assume Bogut and Williams are traded or denounced and that Powell/Anderson are most likely included in the trade for Nerlens. Another assumption is Dirk taking less, again.

PG - Fultz / Barea / Harris
SG - Matthews / Curry / Brussino
SF - Barnes / Finney-Smith
PF - Ibaka / Dirk
C - Noel / Mejri / Hammons

Leaving 2 spots most likely filled via draft/FA.

EricaLubarsky · 12-09-2016, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

What if the Mavs were somehow able to pull off a Nerlens Noel trade and attract Ibaka in FA? This would assume Bogut and Williams are traded or denounced and that Powell/Anderson are most likely included in the trade for Nerlens. Another assumption is Dirk taking less, again.

PG - Fultz / Barea / Harris
SG - Matthews / Curry / Brussino
SF - Barnes / Finney-Smith
PF - Ibaka / Dirk
C - Noel / Mejri / Hammons

Leaving 2 spots most likely filled via draft/FA.

Strong in theory. Possible? I'm not sure that Anderson/Powell gets us Noel.