Just lost my appetite!

[Murphy3]

awesome..use the term circlejerk only to see that it's already a tag. Someone's already talking about you guys.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

awesome..use the term circlejerk only to see that it's already a tag. Someone's already talking about you guys.

I don't think that was directed at who you think it was... just a hunch. But I'm sure that whoever added it appreciates you drawing attention to it.

[jamaljasonandjimmy]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

awesome..use the term circlejerk only to see that it's already a tag. Someone's already talking about you guys.

post #41 awsome dude. thats the new cool thing around here is to have post #41

[nowhereman]

List of PGs I'd take over Deron Williams:
Paul
Rondo
Rose
Westbrook
Parker

List of Centers I would take over Tyson Chandler:
Howard
Bynum

One of those guys was already on the team and would have re-signed for a decent amount. One would have helped the team not get swept in the first round, making us a more favorable sign & trade destination for the other. Meanwhile we would get a legit title defense. Now we're stuck with a bunch of guys on one year deals, not sure of what Dirk will have around him when he's 35. If Dirk retires in two years without having been competitive for the final three years of his career, will that change your minds? I ask honestly, because this subject will be revisited for the rest of the time Dirk is in Dallas as long as his team isn't a legit contender.

I mean, come on. His departure was the major roster change for a team that went from winning a championship to getting swept in the first round. He made an all-NBA team. He won defensive player of the year. He was the youngest member of our championship 5. He's starting for team USA. We could have had him for $12 million a year. And he was worth throwing away for the hope that two other guys would sign here for less than the max. Crazy man. Ya'll hilarious.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

List of PGs I'd take over Deron Williams:
Paul
Rondo
Rose
Westbrook
Parker

List of Centers I would take over Tyson Chandler:
Howard
Bynum

One of those guys was already on the team and would have re-signed for a decent amount. One would have helped the team not get swept in the first round, making us a more favorable sign & trade destination for the other. Meanwhile we would get a legit title defense. Now we're stuck with a bunch of guys on one year deals, not sure of what Dirk will have around him when he's 35. If Dirk retires in two years without having been competitive for the final three years of his career, will that change your minds? I ask honestly, because this subject will be revisited for the rest of the time Dirk is in Dallas as long as his team isn't a legit contender.

I mean, come on. His departure was the major roster change for a team that went from winning a championship to getting swept in the first round. He made an all-NBA team. He won defensive player of the year. He was the youngest member of our championship 5. He's starting for team USA. We could have had him for $12 million a year. And he was worth throwing away for the hope that two other guys would sign here for less than the max. Crazy man. Ya'll hilarious.

Taking Rondo or Parker over DWill is crazy.

Saying that we could have had Chandler for 12Mil a year is an assumption with absolutely no factual basis.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Taking Rondo or Parker over DWill is crazy.

Saying that we could have had Chandler for 12Mil a year is an assumption with absolutely no factual basis.

As is saying Tyson would definitely have landed Williams, no?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

As is saying Tyson would definitely have landed Chandler, no?

Trippy.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Trippy.

Whoops.

[Fragism]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

List of PGs I'd take over Deron Williams:
Paul
Rondo
Rose
Westbrook
Parker

That's insane. No offense.

[Underdog]

Good thread... But it could be a great thread:

[Murphy3]

It's a little difficult to compare players such as Williams and Parker. There teams have recently been in a different spot and that impacts statistics. Parker has more talent around him which obviously can positively and negatively impact stats.. should be more efficient with more talent around him, but should also have fewer attempts and point.

Personally, I don't have a big issue with someone rating Parker and Williams on the same level

Rondo's an interesting case. Sometimes I think he gets a bit overhyped by the media. He can't shoot.. can't make teams pay when he gets to the FT line. To me, that's the nail in the coffin. He doesn't have a jumper and hits about 60% of his ft's. That's hard to overcome when you're going up against a talent like Williams.

[Kante]

I take Pic #5 Underdog, thanks!

[saclare]

bewbs!

[nowhereman]

Maybe ya'll didn't watch much Boston in the playoffs the last couple of years. Having lived in Boston for three years and gone to a ton of games at the garden, and seeing this guy consistently be the best player on the floor, I'd take Rondo over any point guard in the NBA not named Rose or Paul. He had a damn near 54% assist rate in last year's playoffs. Two years ago the guy was gutting it out in the playoffs with a dislocated arm and still finishing layups. He was the best player on a team that pushed the champs to 7 games. He's a killer defensive guard. What's crazy about taking Rondo over Williams? And I hear you on shooting Murph, but Jason Kidd couldn't shoot worth a damn in New Jersey and was an MVP level player there.

And as for Parker, Deron Williams has never had a season as good as the one Parker just put together. And it's "crazy" to rank Parker over Williams? Not even debatable? Get real.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Maybe ya'll didn't watch much Boston in the playoffs the last couple of years. Having lived in Boston for three years and gone to a ton of games at the garden, and seeing this guy consistently be the best player on the floor, I'd take Rondo over any point guard in the NBA not named Rose or Paul. He had a damn near 54% assist rate in last year's playoffs. Two years ago the guy was gutting it out in the playoffs with a dislocated arm and still finishing layups. He was the best player on a team that pushed the champs to 7 games. He's a killer defensive guard. What's crazy about taking Rondo over Williams? And I hear you on shooting Murph, but Jason Kidd couldn't shoot worth a damn in New Jersey and was an MVP level player there.

And as for Parker, Deron Williams has never had a season as good as the one Parker just put together. And it's "crazy" to rank Parker over Williams? Not even debatable? Get real.

Rondo, to me, is not even remotely debatable. Rondo averages 10 points a game for God's sake. He's a great defender and a good assist man (although his A/TO numbers aren't that great), but he's not in Williams class (or anyone else you mentioned). And he's certainly never been the best player on the Celtics.

As for Parker, I'm not real sure what criteria you're using in saying Williams has never had a season like Parker's last season. Not really computing for me.

[Murphy3]

Nowhereman, I get where you're coming from. However, I can't overlook the regular season.. It has to be factored in. I know that Rondo has been a very, very good player at times in the playoffs this past year, but perhaps it's a matter of sample size at that point. I'd have to put him on the tier below Williams..

[Murphy3]

Yeah..I don't think Kidd should have ever been in the top 2 in mvp voting.

[rabbitproof]

I can see Rondo. Depends on if you're factoring in age and salary. Rondo is on a bargain contract (10M per) and is still relatively young (26). Accounting for those factors, I'd take Rondo over Williams.

Those factors aside, it's still a close call - Rondo is a great defender, great on the boards (triple double machine) and a great playmaker (yes, the turnovers can be slop but he can ring up 20 dimes any given night). Recall Miami put LeBron on him to stop Boston's offense. His main weakness is not having a jumper. He's the modern day Ason Kidd but a jumper can be developed. I'd probably stick with Williams since Williams has a bigger body of work though.

I don't see Parker being in that conversation. He had close to a MVP-type year last year but he's still a one-sided basketball player who is not an elite playmaker (I have a bias towards pass first PGs). I ding Westbrook for this as well.

My ranks would be:
Paul
uninjured Rose/Williams
Rondo/injured Rose
Westbrook

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Rondo, to me, is not even remotely debatable. Rondo averages 10 points a game for God's sake. He's a great defender and a good assist man (although his A/TO numbers aren't that great), but he's not in Williams class (or anyone else you mentioned). And he's certainly never been the best player on the Celtics.

The year Kidd finished second in the MVP race, he averaged 14.7 ppg on 13.9 shots, on 39.1% shooting. Last year Rondo averaged 11.9 on 10.8 shots, on 44.8% shooting. And he's "certainly never been the best player on the Celtics?" Not even when he went 44-10-8 against the Heat in a playoff game the Celtics would have won if Wade was called for a clear foul on Rondo in overtime? Then there's this:

Ainge: 'Rondo's been our best player'

Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge would not comment publicly on the report that the Celtics are actively shopping Rajon Rondo, who turned in his 16th career triple-double last night in the Celtics' 102-96 victory over the Milwaukee Bucks.

"I do not make comments on trade rumors because it never ends," he told the Globe this afternoon. "Rondo's been our best player."

During a December press conference before training camp, Ainge admitted that he offered Rondo in a potential deal for Chris Paul. But an NBA source said that Rondo is not being dangled out there for any deal but the Celtics will
listen to offers if it will improve the team.

Rondo is a three-time all-star and perhaps one of the most versatile point guards in the game.

"Rajon has been spectacular at times this year," Ainge said.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketb...rondos_be.html

or this:

Rondo has gone from supporting-cast member to leading man after helping Boston's veteran Big Three win a title in 2008. He may not score much from the perimeter, but Rondo is a nightly triple-double threat who is also capable of shutting down his counterpart.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...4/14/index.htm - (note that the list is explicitly "in no particular order")

Wtf are you smoking man?

As for Parker, I'm not real sure what criteria you're using in saying Williams has never had a season like Parker's last season. Not really computing for me.

Where do you want to start? PER? MVP Shares? Winning?

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Maybe ya'll didn't watch much Boston in the playoffs the last couple of years. Having lived in Boston for three years and gone to a ton of games at the garden, and seeing this guy consistently be the best player on the floor, I'd take Rondo over any point guard in the NBA not named Rose or Paul. He had a damn near 54% assist rate in last year's playoffs. Two years ago the guy was gutting it out in the playoffs with a dislocated arm and still finishing layups. He was the best player on a team that pushed the champs to 7 games. He's a killer defensive guard. What's crazy about taking Rondo over Williams? And I hear you on shooting Murph, but Jason Kidd couldn't shoot worth a damn in New Jersey and was an MVP level player there.

And as for Parker, Deron Williams has never had a season as good as the one Parker just put together. And it's "crazy" to rank Parker over Williams? Not even debatable? Get real.

Is it really that hard to look up stats?

18.3 PPG and 7.7 assists... Deron has only done better than that in both categories seven times so far in his career. He's averaged more assists than Parker every year of his career outside of his rookie season. Ironically Deron averaged more assists and points per game THIS PAST SEASON, as well as rebounds, steals, blocks, FT %, FT attempts, and 3-point percentage.

So, in short, as it often is the case, you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are babbling about.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

Is it really that hard to look up stats?

18.3 PPG and 7.7 assists... Deron has only done better than that in both categories seven times so far in his career. He's averaged more assists than Parker every year of his career outside of his rookie season. Ironically Deron averaged more assists and points per game THIS PAST SEASON, as well as rebounds, steals, blocks, FT %, FT attempts, and 3-point percentage.

So, in short, as it often is the case, you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are babbling about.

If you choose to use simplistic stats, how about just using PER and MVP award shares?

Edit: Or how about their per-36 numbers, which were pretty much the same except for Parker shooting way better. Come on Ribo, you're better than this.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

The year Kidd finished second in the MVP race, he averaged 14.7 ppg on 13.9 shots, on 39.1% shooting. Last year Rondo averaged 11.9 on 10.8 shots, on 44.8% shooting. And he's "certainly never been the best player on the Celtics?" Not even when he went 44-10-8 against the Heat in a playoff game the Celtics would have won if Wade was called for a clear foul on Rondo in overtime? Then there's this:

Wtf are you smoking man?

Yeah, and GM's never give quotes that cast their guys in a better light than they deserve, right?

As for the Kidd comparison:

1. We realize there's a big difference in 3 PPG, right? And if you use eFG, they're not that far apart.

2. Kidd was a dominant rebounder, and a better defender (Rondo is really good, Kidd was generational).

3. Why are we discussing Kidd again?

Where do you want to start? PER? MVP Shares? Winning?

Deron has had one better year by BR PER, and several better years by Win Shares. (referencing Parker's year last year).

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Edit: Or how about their per-36 numbers, which were pretty much the same except for Parker shooting way better. Come on Ribo, you're better than this.

By per-36 stats, Deron has several years that are at worst comparable to Parker's year last year.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

If you choose to use simplistic stats, how about just using PER and MVP award shares?

Edit: Or how about their per-36 numbers, which were pretty much the same except for Parker shooting way better. Come on Ribo, you're better than this.

MVP award shares? Wow. A popularity contest stat means more than assists for a point guard. Fascinating.

Chauncey Billups is seven spots higher on the all-time MVP Shares list than Parker, and Parker is eight spots above John Stockton, so this means that Chauncey Billups is better than Parker and Stockton. Yup. Get real guys. Y'all crazy.

Thanks, but I'll take assists over that ridiculous "stat" any day of the week.

I would say that you are better than this, but I won't.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yeah, and GM's never give quotes that cast their guys in a better light than they deserve, right?

And I'm sure message board posters never crap on players to try to make their point seem more valid. Rondo was pretty clearly the Celtics best player last year, as team management, Boston sportswriters, and pretty much anyone that follows the Celtics will tell you. Having lived in Boston for 3 of the past 4 years, the consensus is that it's Rondo and it's not even close, and hasn't been for a couple of years. It's absolutely laughable to say that Rondo has "certainly never been" the Celtics best player when he's currently, very clearly, their best player.

As for the Kidd comparison:

1. We realize there's a big difference in 3 PPG, right? And if you use eFG, they're not that far apart.

2. Kidd was a dominant rebounder, and a better defender (Rondo is really good, Kidd was generational).

3. Why are we discussing Kidd again?

Deron has had one better year by BR PER, and several better years by Win Shares. (referencing Parker's year last year).

Actually, Deron has never had a better year by PER. His career high-mark for a season was 2010-11 with 21.1. Parker has had three seasons higher than that, including last season with a 22. I'll just rely on what Cuban said about win shares at Sloan in 2010 - that they're a complete garbage stat. The guy finished fifth in MVP voting, and was the best player on a team winning a #1 seed and getting 6 games in a conference finas. I don't think Deron Williams will ever match those accomplishments. And I'm pretty sure either way, you get the tenor of what I'm saying, and the point here is that you're plainly wrong. Taking Parker over Deron Williams is not "crazy." What's crazy is calling someone crazy for preferring a player that last year dominated in a way Williams has never done.

The point of discussing Jason Kidd is to demonstrate how absurd your argument is that Rondo isn't a world class point guard because of points. And if you take it by 36 minutes, Kidd averaged 14.2/9.5/7 in his MVP-caliber season. Rondo averaged 11.6/11.4/4.7 last year. But of course, taking a guy who compares favorably to a once-in-a-generation point guard, who's the best player on a team that took the champions to 7 games, a guy that dropped 44-10 in a playoff game, lead the league in triple doubles, and is a game changer on defense, is crazy.

If there's one guy not worth the money they made last year, between Williams and Chandler, it's not the all-nba player that won DPOY and anchored a top 5 defense. Especially considering that Rondo and Parker, both of who are arguably better point guards than Deron (and you're crazy if you don't think its arguable), make 11 million and 12.5 million a year respectively.

[Murphy3]

You probably have a pretty strong case with this year's playoff run.. Rondo probably was their best player.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

MVP award shares? Wow. A popularity contest stat means more than assists for a point guard. Fascinating.

Chauncey Billups is seven spots higher on the all-time MVP Shares list than Parker, and Parker is eight spots above John Stockton, so this means that Chauncey Billups is better than Parker and Stockton. Yup. Get real guys. Y'all crazy.

Thanks, but I'll take assists over that ridiculous "stat" any day of the week.

I would say that you are better than this, but I won't.

I meant MVP voting anyway. Man, that Tony Parker sure has a significant advantage in a popularity contest, playing in that big mark San Antonio, than Deron Williams does. But fine, take your empty stat over an award that actually reflects some overall value.

So you don't consider Rose to be a top tier point guard? He was 10th in the league in assists in his MVP season. Parker averaged more assists/36 minutes last season than Rose did two seasons ago, and shot the ball at a higher percentage. But if you're really into assists, than maybe Deron bumps down below Nash on the point guard list too.

[jthig32]

I assure you that Cuban doesn't hold PER in any higher standing than WS. I don't like WS either, but you're the one using MVP voting in this argument.

I was quoting BasketballReference PER, which as Deron as having a 22.1 season in the past.

I'll take Garnett as the best player on the Celtics last year. Rondo has had some incredible bursts, and some great playoff runs, but over the course of a whole season and playoffs I don't think he's ever been their best player. It's very, very hard to be the best player on a team when you can't shoot and average under 12 points a game.

And Deron Williams is a significantly better basketball player than Tyson Chandler, which was the original disagreement.

[nowhereman]

Damn. I can see why Ocelot got so worked up. It's annoying as hell to try to talk to someone who so matter of factly and dismissively states something that's patently untrue or woefully unsubstantiated.

* you're crazy to put Rondo and Parker in Williams class --> completely unsubstantiated claim

* Rondo has never been the Celtic's best player --> has arguably been their best player for years, widely recognized as such

* Williams has had better years than Parker's last year --> which ones, and better how?

* Rondo can't be an elite point guard because he scores 10ppg --> actually he scores more than that, and is as efficient scoring the ball as Kidd, a generational point guard, was in his prime. And yeah, sure, Rondo gets less rebounds, but he averages more assists and a greater assist percentage.

* Having Chandler for 12m is an assumption with no factual basis --> Chandler states he preferred to stay in Dallas, signs a contract worth a few million more in New York, and there's no basis to believe he would take less to stay in Dallas. HOWEVER, we spend months debating and arguing about why Deron Williams would and should take less money to play in Dallas, including a great tax breakdown from EL, a discussion of the value of an extra year, and the merits of staying in a town like Dallas.

Just exasperating.

I'm on the east coast, it's 5:00 p.m., so I'm gonna duck out, have a beer, and go watch Batman. Peace out for a while, ya'll.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I assure you that Cuban doesn't hold PER in any higher standing than WS. I don't like WS either, but you're the one using MVP voting in this argument.

I was quoting BasketballReference PER, which as Deron as having a 22.1 season in the past.

I'll take Garnett as the best player on the Celtics last year. Rondo has had some incredible bursts, and some great playoff runs, but over the course of a whole season and playoffs I don't think he's ever been their best player. It's very, very hard to be the best player on a team when you can't shoot and average under 12 points a game.

And Deron Williams is a significantly better basketball player than Tyson Chandler, which was the original disagreement.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...willide01.html - nope, never averaged above 21.1 for a season.

And Garnett hasn't been the Celtics best player for a while now. As far back as three playoffs ago, Rondo has been cited as the best Celtics player. Completely consolidated that over the past two seasons (and it's not even really close anymore). It's very easy to be the best player on a team when you're dropping 40+ points in the playoffs, or putting up 18-17-20 lines, and leading the league in triple doubles.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Damn. I can see why Ocelot got so worked up. It's annoying as hell to try to talk to someone who so matter of factly and dismissively states something that's patently untrue or woefully unsubstantiated.

I agree, it is annoying.

* you're crazy to put Rondo and Parker in Williams class --> completely unsubstantiated claim

I don't really understand this. How would someone substantiate this? It's subjective. Maybe it was a bit of hyperbole, I'm certainly known for that.

* Rondo has never been the Celtic's best player --> has arguably been their best player for years, widely recognized as such

I don't agree with this. This, again, is awfully subjective. I guess I don't have a huge problem if you believe it, but it surprises me.

* Williams has had better years than Parker's last year --> which ones, and better how?

Um..YOU made the opposite of this claim, and never substantiated it. You gave me PER and MVP voting for God's sake. I'll take Deron's 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons over Parker's year last year. Not by a ton but I'll take them.

* Rondo can't be an elite point guard because he scores 10ppg --> actually he scores more than that, and is as efficient scoring the ball as Kidd, a generational point guard, was in his prime. And yeah, sure, Rondo gets less rebounds, but he averages more assists and a greater assist percentage.

He scores less than Kidd and rebounds less than Kidd. Both by significant (not huge, not notable) differences. He's also, imo, not as good of a defender as Kidd was.

* Having Chandler for 12m is an assumption with no factual basis --> Chandler states he preferred to stay in Dallas, signs a contract worth a few million more in New York, and there's no basis to believe he would take less to stay in Dallas. HOWEVER, we spend months debating and arguing about why Deron Williams would and should take less money to play in Dallas, including a great tax breakdown from EL, a discussion of the value of an extra year, and the merits of staying in a town like Dallas.

A few million more? You're giving Tyson 12Mil a year in Dallas. That's 48Mil over four years. That's leaving 10Mil on the table by not going to NY. Deron, over the same four year span, would have given up significantly less than that before even taking into account the difference in living costs. The fifth year was where all the extra money was, and he could have gotten that fifth year in his next deal.

And regardless of what the figures are, or what we argued about regarding Deron you said, verbatim

We could have had him for $12 million a year.

.

And I will again reiterate that there is absolutely no facts to support that. None. Your response in this post was complet conjecture on your part. Even if I were to accept the fact that Tyson might have taken less to play here, that is a far, FAR cry from the emphatic statement you made.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...willide01.html - nope, never averaged above 21.1 for a season.

And Garnett hasn't been the Celtics best player for a while now. As far back as three playoffs ago, Rondo has been cited as the best Celtics player. Completely consolidated that over the past two seasons (and it's not even really close anymore). It's very easy to be the best player on a team when you're dropping 40+ points in the playoffs, or putting up 18-17-20 lines, and leading the league in triple doubles.

Ah, I was looking at the 2/3 season he played of Utah. My bad.

Citing individual game lines does nothing for the argument. Kevin Garnett was really damn good last year. He's their most important defender and scored and rebounded really well for a center.

[Fragism]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

* Rondo can't be an elite point guard because he scores 10ppg --> actually he scores more than that, and is as efficient scoring the ball as Kidd, a generational point guard, was in his prime.

No. Rondo last season was horribly inefficient when it came to scoring, let down by his horrible shooting from the free throw to jump shooting and is probably the main reason he'll never be a true franchise player.

edit: Also his assists are terribly overrated. I wonder how many assists Williams would get with Rondo's supporting cast.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Damn. I can see why Ocelot got so worked up. It's annoying as hell to try to talk to someone who so matter of factly and dismissively states something that's patently untrue or woefully unsubstantiated.

* you're crazy to put Rondo and Parker in Williams class --> completely unsubstantiated claim

* Rondo has never been the Celtic's best player --> has arguably been their best player for years, widely recognized as such

* Williams has had better years than Parker's last year --> which ones, and better how?

* Rondo can't be an elite point guard because he scores 10ppg --> actually he scores more than that, and is as efficient scoring the ball as Kidd, a generational point guard, was in his prime. And yeah, sure, Rondo gets less rebounds, but he averages more assists and a greater assist percentage.

* Having Chandler for 12m is an assumption with no factual basis --> Chandler states he preferred to stay in Dallas, signs a contract worth a few million more in New York, and there's no basis to believe he would take less to stay in Dallas. HOWEVER, we spend months debating and arguing about why Deron Williams would and should take less money to play in Dallas, including a great tax breakdown from EL, a discussion of the value of an extra year, and the merits of staying in a town like Dallas.

Just exasperating.

I'm on the east coast, it's 5:00 p.m., so I'm gonna duck out, have a beer, and go watch Batman. Peace out for a while, ya'll.

Couldn't agree more... Rep.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I agree, it is annoying.



I don't really understand this. How would someone substantiate this? It's subjective. Maybe it was a bit of hyperbole, I'm certainly known for that.



I don't agree with this. This, again, is awfully subjective. I guess I don't have a huge problem if you believe it, but it surprises me.



Um..YOU made the opposite of this claim, and never substantiated it. You gave me PER and MVP voting for God's sake. I'll take Deron's 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons over Parker's year last year. Not by a ton but I'll take them.



He scores less than Kidd and rebounds less than Kidd. Both by significant (not huge, not notable) differences. He's also, imo, not as good of a defender as Kidd was.



A few million more? You're giving Tyson 12Mil a year in Dallas. That's 48Mil over four years. That's leaving 10Mil on the table by not going to NY. Deron, over the same four year span, would have given up significantly less than that before even taking into account the difference in living costs. The fifth year was where all the extra money was, and he could have gotten that fifth year in his next deal.

And regardless of what the figures are, or what we argued about regarding Deron you said, verbatim .

And I will again reiterate that there is absolutely no facts to support that. None. Your response in this post was complet conjecture on your part. Even if I were to accept the fact that Tyson might have taken less to play here, that is a far, FAR cry from the emphatic statement you made.

Are you actually serious man? I mean, really? Are you actually being serious right now? HIS emphatic statements? Wow.

I think I'm going to start pointing out every single time I read you being a complete jerk the way you dismiss opinions in a rude, condescending way. At some point it's going to be embarrassing that you're a mod here.

[The Ghost of Championship]

UHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGG!

You just depressed me. It's like we're destined to be San Antonio's Bitch forever. No Chandler, no Williams, and sure as hell no Greggo.

Please just shut it before I puke. Please.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Fragism

No. Rondo last season was horribly inefficient when it came to scoring, let down by his horrible shooting from the free throw to jump shooting and is probably the main reason he'll never be a true franchise player.

edit: Also his assists are terribly overrated. I wonder how many assists Williams would get with Rondo's supporting cast.

Also, he's a complete headcase.

[Skywalker]

Also,

[The Ghost of Championship]

Did Michael Jackson sign that thing, Skywalker?

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of Championship

UHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGG!

You just depressed me. It's like we're destined to be San Antonio's Bitch forever. No Chandler, no Williams, and sure as hell no Greggo.

Please just shut it before I puke. Please.

Greggo's overrated.