Caron Butler´s injury Thread - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Kidd Karma · 01-03-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

True, and that's why Dwyer's remark that Butler's contributions were "quite replaceable" is hardly accurate. We've only had a 3-men rotation at the forward spots so far this season. With Caron out, there's actually a severe lack of depth at the 4 and and the 3 and you have to wonder who's going to fill the hole. Cardinal?

On top of that, we're down to Jet as our second option on offense which isn't exactly promising given his occasional no-shows. Butler's been an efficient scorer this season as well as an insurance policy.

Going into the playoffs with a streaky Jet and a somewhat-unproven Roddy behind Dirk might be enough to beat a good team, but it's not enough to win a championship. Having Butler out there would definitely help us offensively and increase our margin of error.

Revisit Tim Thomas or talk Sheed out of retirement?

dalger · 01-03-2011, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Revisit Tim Thomas or talk Sheed out of retirement?

If Caron was out for the season, I guess we'd have to think bigger than that and trade his expiring contract, which is everything he would be at this point with a season-ending injury, for a guy who could help immediately. Stephen Jackson has been talked about around here and would be a decent replacement due to being versatile and allowing Marion to switch to the 4 and back up Dirk. Only, of course, if getting him didn't require to give up Roddy or another important piece.

Our rotation at the forward spots is quite concerning without Butler. There's only Cardinal left and some out-of-position options like Mahinmi, DeShawn or Dojo. Despite having Dirk, Marion and Butler under contract during the summer, our main priority was to sign another forward like Haslem or Harrington due to a lack of depth in that area. Missing Butler for the remainder of the season would only worsen the situation.

BGMaverick9 · 01-03-2011, 07:25 PM

Luckily, my scheduling worked out right so I will be at the AAC to cover all of the events leading up to the usual pregame stuff. If anything, news-wise, breaks, I'll be sure to let everyone know.

MavsFTR · 01-03-2011, 04:22 PM

There will be no announcement on Caron Butler's injury today. He's still being evaluated.

Rick41 · 01-03-2011, 04:24 PM

No news is good news?

DTown All Day · 01-03-2011, 06:13 PM

This injury could become a blessing in disguise

Maybe we would now give more consideration to trading Caron's expiring pact for somebody like Rip Hamilton, SJax, Kirk Hinrich......who are all much better fits for this team than Caron

grndmstr_c · 01-03-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTown All Day

This injury could become a blessing in disguise

Maybe we would now give more consideration to trading Caron's expiring pact for somebody like Rip Hamilton, SJax, Kirk Hinrich......who are all much better fits for this team than Caron

Hinrich is a better fit than Caron for a team that's overloaded on combo guards? For a team that now has a grand total of two healthy true forwards who can confidently be said to be rotation players? Try again.

dalger · 01-03-2011, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Hinrich is a better fit than Caron for a team that's overloaded on combo guards? For a team that now has a grand total of two healthy true forwards who can confidently be said to be rotation players? Try again.

Indeed. We don't need another guard at the moment, at least not to replace Caron. Our depth chart looks like this:

C: Chandler, Haywood, Mahinmi, Ajinca

F: Dirk, Marion, Butler, Cardinal, Novak

G: Kidd, Jet, Roddy, Stevenson, JJB, Dojo

If anything, we need another small forward to at least have a quality 3-men rotation again, and even then you're praying for all three guys to stay healthy due to a lack of alternatives.

GermanDunk · 01-03-2011, 06:29 PM

Anyway. If Caron does not return until the end of March we can punt the season. That´s it.

Budapest Maverick · 01-03-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

Anyway. If Caron does not return until the end of March we can punt the season. That´s it.

Sorry, but no. While Caron was definitely playing better after the rough start, he wasn't really an impact player for us. His advanced stats - or the good old eye test for that matter - doesn't really indicate that Butler was even our fourth most important player.

Dirk, Kidd, and Chandler's impact definitely more valuable to this team than his, after that, i would surely put Marion ahead him (Marion's +- numbers i think also a lot better than Butler's, i know, i know...) he's really not a special defender, and he's a mediocre scorer at this point in his career.

He can't really get to the line, his improved long ball was valuable to us though, i give you that. Marion, imo is a much more impactful player. So are we really doomed? No, not really. Let's see the candidates. Jackson? A much better playmaker and defender than Butler. Igoudala? A much better defender and penetrator.

Wallace? A much better defender, a better rebounder, and a more efficient scorer. I'm not saying we have a great chance at all of those players. But i think we can definitely trade for Jackson, without giving up Roddy. Wallace, and Igoudala? Well, those are tougher to get i think. I know i don't want Rip Hamilton, that's for sure.

Just want to add, i didn't want to bash Caron, he's just not that impactful (if that's a word) in my book, and i think there are realistically obtainable players out there, who are better fits, and can make this team even better.

tgfan · 01-03-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

Anyway. If Caron does not return until the end of March we can punt the season. That´s it.

O ye of little faith. That's no way to talk! Mavs will find a way.

GermanDunk · 01-03-2011, 07:02 PM

Yes, if there was a better player available, we´ve had picked him over Caron. Probably. But in our situation he is the missing link. As you mentioned Jackson. Jackson came into my mind several times today and Phil! Jackson is right. I am spending HOURS, NIGHTS and WEEKENDS since whatever in front ofr my fucking monitor to catch Mavs Basketball and i AM really pissed !!!!
And my Soccer team delivered only 5 wins out of 17 f games, too with a roster worth 140 f mn. €. I´m really, really pissed.

iella · 01-03-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

Yes, if there was a better player available, we´ve had picked him over Caron. Probably. But in our situation he is the missing link. As you mentioned Jackson. Jackson came into my mind several times today and Phil! Jackson is right. I am spending HOURS, NIGHTS and WEEKENDS since whatever in front ofr my fucking monitor to catch Mavs Basketball and i AM really pissed !!!!
And my Soccer team delivered only 5 wins out of 17 f games, too with a roster worth 140 f mn. €. I´m really, really pissed.

GD, I don't think I've ever seen you so angry...

LonghornDub · 01-03-2011, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iella

GD, I don't think I've ever seen you so angry...

I love it. Love the passion.

mac222b · 01-04-2011, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I love it. Love the passion.

then you'll just LOVE Stephen Jackson

GermanDunk · 01-03-2011, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iella

GD, I don't think I've ever seen you so angry...

Yeah. My violent era lasted 2 minutes whena i punched a classmate right in his face after he hit me in the face with a snowball, but right now, thank god no one is in my way. The only success this year is my 3rd place in the Pro Football Pick ´em, least outscoring 15 US citizens and one Japonese. That´s it for this shit year.

Phil Jackson knows Basketball.

LetsGoMavs · 01-03-2011, 11:00 PM

offtopic:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

And my Soccer team delivered only 5 wins out of 17 f games, too with a roster worth 140 f mn. €. I´m really, really pissed.

Werder? If so...: LMAO

ontopic:
I cannot really express how sorry i am for him right now, i mean he finally seemed to got accustomed/settled in...

... just terrible to see him go down like that.

And man, remember also how he left the game:
Mad respect goes out to him for actually walking off the court and to the locker room after potentially rupturing his effing patella tendon - that must have hurt like ****.

edit:
Even if it sounds ridiculous right now (especially after our...ummm...unimpressive last three games) - we should all try to avoid panicking until someone gives us a real diagnosis.

fluid.forty.one · 01-03-2011, 07:39 PM

hahaha

CadBane · 01-03-2011, 08:26 PM

Dwyer is a complete idiot, most of his articles are terrible. And I wouldn't call 1-3 without Dirk "admirable".

mavs777 · 01-03-2011, 08:40 PM

Jackson is a better penetrater than Butler plus if you play him at the 2 you can put him on the block often and cause doubles

Rick41 · 01-03-2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Jackson is a better penetrater than Butler

That's what she said. Or you?

mavs777 · 01-03-2011, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

That's what she said. Or you?

failed humor attempt?

Rick41 · 01-03-2011, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

failed humor attempt?

Only you see it that way.

BGMaverick9 · 01-04-2011, 11:01 AM

before he went in for the MRI

Quote:

Originally Posted by @realtuffjuice

Championship! Remember that fans that's what its about and we have what it take in that lockeroom to get it done, ill be 100 percent
In no time, and I will be the biggest supporter on the sideline until healthy thanks for the support again I'm going in....

BGMaverick9 · 01-04-2011, 01:44 PM

Caplan just posted that Butler had surgery.

This was something we were debating while waiting for shootaround...whether his picture indicated an MRI or a scope or something major.

sefant77 · 01-04-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

This was something we were debating while waiting for shootaround...whether his picture indicated an MRI or a scope or something major.

I never had an MRI but im pretty sure you dont need an IV bag for this and he had IV bag preparation on his pic, this was surgery.

tcat075 · 01-03-2011, 10:27 PM

Deng was mentioned above.

Someone mind explaining to me why the division leading Bulls would want to trade away their 18 ppg (46%/37%) swingman who is third on their team in scoring?

SMC0007 · 01-03-2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Deng was mentioned above.

Someone mind explaining to me why the division leading Bulls would want to trade away their 18 ppg (46%/37%) swingman who is third on their team in scoring?

!

They wouldn't.

And I don't have a ton of interest in dumping young guys like Jones, Roddy, Mahinmi etc plus Butler to rent Melo for a year while KARMA boots us out of the first or second round and Melo goes to NY in the offseason. Then we watch Roddy and Dojo become allstars and Mahinmi as a solid starting center on another team in the future while we struggle to rebuild.

mavs777 · 01-03-2011, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

!

They wouldn't.

And I don't have a ton of interest in dumping young guys like Jones, Roddy, Mahinmi etc plus Butler to rent Melo for a year while KARMA boots us out of the first or second round and Melo goes to NY in the offseason. Then we watch Roddy and Dojo become allstars and Mahinmi as a solid starting center on another team in the future while we struggle to rebuild.

If you believed in KARMA you would think the Mavs would have won the title one of these past years with what happened with Miami

Budapest Maverick · 01-04-2011, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Deng was mentioned above.

Someone mind explaining to me why the division leading Bulls would want to trade away their 18 ppg (46%/37%) swingman who is third on their team in scoring?

Yeah, it was a random mention, that ship sailed. They shopped him hard in the summer, but right now they obviously have no intention to trade him. So i guess we're looking at Jackson, Wallace (maybe), Hamilton, Prince (maybe?), Igoudala (maybe)?

tcat075 · 01-04-2011, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Yeah, it was a random mention, that ship sailed. They shopped him hard in the summer, but right now they obviously have no intention to trade him. So i guess we're looking at Jackson, Wallace (maybe), Hamilton, Prince (maybe?), Igoudala (maybe)?

I'd say Jackson, Hamilton, and Iguodala are all very available. Wallace, despite a few rumors, I'd imagine will stay in Charlotte.

I haven't heard much about Prince's availability, and its not like he has an awful contract that Detroit wants gone, and he has been with the team for a long time. However, he is 30, and so he's not a young piece they want to hang onto. If he is available, I'd be interested...his stats are way better than I realized. 15 points a game on 50% shooting from the floor and 44% from the field. That's almost exactly what Butler was giving us in only 2 more mpg...slightly less points, slightly more efficient (which would make you think he could score as much as Butler if he needed to, and his efficiency would only drop to what Butler's was), but practically the same. Plus, isn't he known as a pretty good defender? Its probably wishful thinking, because he's not being mentioned in trade rumors like the others are starting to be, but he does look like he could easily fill Butler's role if we could get him. And, of course, being on a better team should make him even better, right?

BGMaverick9 · 01-04-2011, 10:52 AM

Looks like Caron is going in for the MRI now based on his tweet...and his nice shower cap.

SMC0007 · 01-04-2011, 11:06 AM

fingers crossed.

LonghornDub · 01-04-2011, 11:11 AM

Prediction: "I can't explain it, but the MRI shows no damage at all. He can play tonight. It's a Mavericks miracle!" - doctor

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-04-2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Prediction: "I can't explain it, but the MRI shows no damage at all. He can play tonight. It's a Mavericks miracle!" - doctor

Only in the land of Buckaroo Bonzai.....

I suppose we can hope and pray for a sprain.

Kante · 01-04-2011, 11:36 AM

Let´s hope he is just out 2 months...

Pongo · 01-04-2011, 11:44 AM

http://plixi.com/p/67845335

"Goin in" --> is that old, or is he actually taking a second MRI?

Edit: Well, it seems like he's going in for surgery:

"Championship! Remember that fans that's what its about and we have what it take in that lockeroom to get it done, ill be 100 percent"

"In no time, and I will be the biggest supporter on the sideline until healthy thanks for the support again I'm going in...."

Nice. Seems like it's "only" a partially torn patella tendon.

Rick41 · 01-04-2011, 11:45 AM

Maybe he didn't take an MRI yesterday?

Pongo · 01-04-2011, 11:51 AM

I guess he did take an MRI yesterday. Look at my edited part, might be good news, though nothing official yet.

j0Shi · 01-04-2011, 12:01 PM

Why can't I see the latest tweets?

http://twitter.com/realtuffjuice

Last one is: "Thanks for all the prayers... Huge win for us tonight God bless!"

??