Plan B if D Wade and Lebron go elsewhere

[jthig32]

I'm not caught up in minutes. I'm caught up in putting together a functional team. And this team will not succeed with a below average (defensively) undersized center next to Dirk.

There is no need for a defensive player of the year at center. This team was VERY good defensively with a Damp/Diop combo. There's no reason to completely punt on the idea of defending the paint and protecting the rim just because you have to cover up for one or more defensively subpar players.

Al Jefferson's a really nice player, but he's going to have to play next to a quality defensive player at either C or PF to really be successful.

And this of course leads to my other point in this debate, which is that focusing on low post scoring, in a vacuum, is dumb. Focus on efficient scoring, no matter where it comes from.

[sike]

too much yelling with certainty when all we have is conjecture, subjective opinion, and hypothesis. Be nice guys.

I agree that Jefferson alone would not vault the Mavs into favored status...only James or Wade could do that in one move.

But I also think that much of Jefferson's supposed defensive liabilities (though no one has taken the time to prove him to be a subpar defensive center thus far) would be negated by having Haywood behind him.

This team is 2 moves (not involving Wade or James) away...and I would be happy if Jefferson was one of those moves.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sike

too much yelling with certainty when all we have is conjecture, subjective opinion, and hypothesis. Be nice guys.

I agree that Jefferson alone would not vault the Mavs into favored status...only James or Wade could do that in one move.

But I also think that much of Jefferson's supposed defensive liabilities (though no one has taken the time to prove him to be a subpar defensive center thus far) would be negated by having Haywood behind him.

This team is 2 moves (not involving Wade or James) away...and I would be happy if Jefferson was one of those moves.

Best post in the thread.



This team was not good enough with Damp/Diop, or with an even better duo of Damp and Haywood with a better team surrounding them.

You need to have some low post scoring or the threat at least. It's not dumb, That is a huge weapon. Who was the last team to win it all without it? Perhaps Detroit, even then Sheed and co were able to provide more than we have.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sike

too much yelling with certainty when all we have is conjecture, subjective opinion, and hypothesis. Be nice guys.

I agree that Jefferson alone would not vault the Mavs into favored status...only James or Wade could do that in one move.

But I also think that much of Jefferson's supposed defensive liabilities (though no one has taken the time to prove him to be a subpar defensive center thus far) would be negated by having Haywood behind him.

This team is 2 moves (not involving Wade or James) away...and I would be happy if Jefferson was one of those moves.

Well first of all, if you trade for Jefferson then I seriously doubt Haywood is re-signing here. But even if he you somehow end up with both, I don't understand how Haywood being behind him negates his subpar defensive capabilities. It's not like you only need offense sometimes and defense others. The vast majority of the time that Dirk spends on the floor he MUST be next to a center that can not only defend his man, but defend the rim.

I'm just not nearly caught up in the need for a post player as some people have been for years around here. Dirk is already an efficient scoring big man. It doesn't really matter HOW he scores, it's that he does it efficiently. So you already have a player that is dependent on his guards to get him the ball that scores at a high rate and at a great efficiency.

What you need, more than anything else, is someone that can bring the ball up the court and create offense without having to depend on anything else. You need an all star level all around player at the swing position that can penetrate and create offense.

Now, if you want to bring in someone to be a part of the forward/center rotation that can score down low (like Drew Gooden) I'm not completely against that. But it can't be someone that you're depending on to play center on a regular basis. And I really don't think that is subjective. It's been proven. All you need to look at is what happened to this team defensively when Damp got hurt and Gooden had to play center for the majority of games.

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

And I really don't think that is subjective. It's been proven. All you need to look at is what happened to this team defensively when Damp got hurt and Gooden had to play center for the majority of games.

Did you just compare Al Jefferson to Drew Gooden? I think you did. Let me say this, if Al Jefferson is as bad a defender as Drew Gooden (who did hustle hard), then I change my mind...I'm not sure anything even like that has been suggested and I know it hasn't been proven.

I agree totally that this team needs an all star level guard that can score efficiently...and in the clutch. So...that leaves us with pretty much just Joe Johnson (bc Iggy is not that guy). I really like JJ, but his game is predicated on the perimeter...and I thought we had finally realized that the rim gets much smaller in the playoffs? They freakin need an all star level guard you can attack the rim. Efficiency is wonderful, but when the shot is falling and the team is depending on you, you have to be able to deliver. And in that situation, I wonder about JJ.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well first of all, if you trade for Jefferson then I seriously doubt Haywood is re-signing here. But even if he you somehow end up with both, I don't understand how Haywood being behind him negates his subpar defensive capabilities. It's not like you only need offense sometimes and defense others. The vast majority of the time that Dirk spends on the floor he MUST be next to a center that can not only defend his man, but defend the rim.

I'm just not nearly caught up in the need for a post player as some people have been for years around here. Dirk is already an efficient scoring big man. It doesn't really matter HOW he scores, it's that he does it efficiently. So you already have a player that is dependent on his guards to get him the ball that scores at a high rate and at a great efficiency.

What you need, more than anything else, is someone that can bring the ball up the court and create offense without having to depend on anything else. You need an all star level all around player at the swing position that can penetrate and create offense.

Now, if you want to bring in someone to be a part of the forward/center rotation that can score down low (like Drew Gooden) I'm not completely against that. But it can't be someone that you're depending on to play center on a regular basis. And I really don't think that is subjective. It's been proven. All you need to look at is what happened to this team defensively when Damp got hurt and Gooden had to play center for the majority of games.

Well being fair, Gooden is not the player Jefferson is so that isn't really proving much in this case. If Jefferson were in Goodens place, you would have had a more efficient scorer with more ability who also makes better decisions and can draw a double team. Huge difference


"The vast majority of the time that Dirk spends on the floor he MUST be next to a center that can not only defend his man, but defend the rim."

Because Dirk can't keep his player from getting to the rim?

[CrazyBoy]

Originally Posted by sike

too much yelling with certainty when all we have is conjecture, subjective opinion, and hypothesis. Be nice guys.

I agree that Jefferson alone would not vault the Mavs into favored status...only James or Wade could do that in one move.

But I also think that much of Jefferson's supposed defensive liabilities (though no one has taken the time to prove him to be a subpar defensive center thus far) would be negated by having Haywood behind him.

so you think the opinions of pro-nba players about jefferson/haywood dont count? all those sites with defensivstatistics that state that haywood is the way better center dont count too?

ok then whats with the Defensive Composite Score... its not up-to-date though, but it gives you an insight of how well a person performed in this team defensivly.
http://www.82games.com/nichols1.htm
just some examples: al jefferson was way worse than d. harris (!!!), josh howard and erika dampier (at dallas) ... hell

some opinions from hoopshype:
http://hoopshype.com/players/al_jefferson.htm
"Defense needs work" btw. also listed as power forward

prove that the wolves played better when love was on the court instead of jefferson:
http://www.82games.com/0910/09MIN12.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0910/09MIN11.HTM
and look at the 5-man-units... they actually played WAY better when jefferson played his natural power forward position

yet another fact:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2010.html
scroll down to advanced statistics and see that love was better in nearly every stat there is (offensiv rating / defensive rating)

to sum it up:
every basketballexpert, every site that provide statistics is saying: jefferson isnt a good center.
i mean, i postet 4 references now and there are still some people out there that think jefferson could fix our center-whole ? i've watched around 10-20 minnesota games complete in this season... everything i saw was a good scorer, that cant defend. but i never felt bad about that, he is a power forward. he produced the same bad defensive rating like dirk did when he played center 7 years ago. i just felt relieved when love was on the court so they had at least a slightly chance to play good defense in the paint - most of the time it worked. there is absolutly NO chance that he(jefferson) will change his gamestyle when he comes to dallas. so a combo of dirk+jefferson on the court will break our neck. every GM will stick to the center that can defend and produce 10 ppg / 10 rebs than having a defensive liabilitie that scores 7pps more - and so do i

@kingbeef
hi king, hast du in deutschland gearbeitet, oder warst du nur zu besuch dort ?

[Dirkadirkastan]

It's not the lack of low post scoring that's crippled the Mavs in the past. It's the lack of dribble penetration. That's the reason JJB gets so much burn. Isn't that sad?

[wilmtalk]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

It's not the lack of low post scoring that's crippled the Mavs in the past. It's the lack of dribble penetration. That's the reason JJB gets so much burn. Isn't that sad?

Actually it is the combination of both although if I had my choice I would prefer to have a dribble penetrator to a good low post scorer since a dribble penetrator can create low post scoring from sub par posts. We really need a point who has the ability to do so not a three. We do over play JJB because Kidd lacks that skill. The most effective offense is run when the playmaker or player that has the ball in his hands the most is someone who has the ability to create his own shots. This is why the offense runs more efficiantly when the ball goes to Dirk first and he passes off the double teams.

Sorry J. Kidd lovers but when he is not hitting his out side set shots and the rest of the jumpshooters are bricking our offense is becomes entirely dependant on Dirk. When Roddy did play in the playoffs everyone saw the difference it made for the offense.

All in all it would be good to have a team that doesn't have so many glaring weakness as the Mavs do at present. So we do need to get a good defensive post player to play with Haywood providing we resign him. I have serious questions about Jefferson. He is not a good low post defender as evidenced by the Wolves continuing search for a center.

[SMC0007]

[Underdog]

It must be nice to control your own destiny...

Wade, James, Johnson to talk future

link

Dwyane Wade has a big decision to make on where he'll sign this offseason. And before he makes his choice, he said he'll talk it over with fellow big-ticket free agents LeBron James and Joe Johnson.

Wade told the Chicago Tribune that he's not sure when the three players will talk, but they've been discussing their futures informally for a while now.

"[Free agency] has been three years coming," the Miami Heat superstar told the Tribune. "We've discussed it prematurely, at different times. [But] you don't know what guys are thinking and where they're going. I think we'll all sit down, and before one of us makes a decision, all of us will have spoken to each other and[listened to the] thinking.

"A lot of decisions [will be based on] what other players are willing to do and what other guys want to do. So it's not just a 'me' situation here. We all have to look and see what each other is thinking."

James, coming off back-to-back playoff disappointments with his home-state Cleveland Cavaliers, will be the most sought-after free agent this summer, but Wade should be a close second.

Johnson's stock might have fallen after his lackluster playoff series for the Hawks against the Orlando Magic, averaging just 13 points as Atlanta was swept.

Free agency begins July 1.

One team that could have a problem signing Wade is his hometown Chicago Bulls.

The Bulls have money to spend this offseason and are expected to be one of the main suitors for James, in particular, but will their perceived disloyalty to former stars cost them a chance at the coveted players in the 2010 free-agent class?

"I think the biggest question that you think about has to be loyalty," Wade told the Tribune. "I know one thing about Miami: It is a very loyal organization. I see what they do with their players when their players get done with the game of basketball . . . how loyal they are. I don't know about the Bulls."

In particular, Wade questions why Hall of Famers Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, who led the Bulls to six NBA championships, are no longer with the organization.

"I see Michael Jordan is not there, Scottie Pippen is not there . . . You know, these guys are not a part," Wade told the Tribune. "Things like that. So that is probably one of the biggest things for me, because I am a very loyal person."

Jordan recently became the majority owner of the Charlotte Bobcats.

The Bulls, New York Knicks, New Jersey Nets and Wade's Heat have the most financial flexibility to add a prime free agent from the 2010 class, which also includes the Toronto Raptors' Chris Bosh and the Phoenix Suns' Amare Stoudemire.

[KINGBEEF]

Tyrus Thomas??? He's tall and he dunks. Good fit in Dallas?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

Tyrus Thomas??? He's tall and he dunks. Good fit in Dallas?

With Dirk, Marion and Butler on our roster, he'd pretty much be a $6.2mil Najera replacement in the rotation... "True" centers and shooting guards should be our focus, not more forwards (besides, if you're gonna get a forward from Charlotte, you might as well go after Gerald Wallace...)

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by Underdog

With Dirk, Marion and Butler on our roster, he'd pretty much be a $6.2mil Najera replacement in the rotation... "True" centers and shooting guards should be our focus, not more forwards (besides, if you're gonna get a forward from Charlotte, you might as well go after Gerald Wallace...)

well you said the key words that's ringing in my ear: "he'd pretty much be a $6.2mil Najera replacement in the rotation." Which will be an upgrade if you ask me. He's taller than Eddie and on the offensive end he's a threat.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

well you said the key words that's ringing in my ear: "he'd pretty much be a $6.2mil Najera replacement in the rotation." Which will be an upgrade if you ask me. He's taller than Eddie and on the offensive end he's a threat.

The $6.2mil is the only part that should stand out.

You have to give that up to get him and I doubt Charlotte is going to part with his expiring contract without demanding talent in return.

Barea/Stevenson is about the only package that will get it done, but I doubt they'd see that as "talent in return" (but who knows, they ate that Diop contract without flinching...)

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

well you said the key words that's ringing in my ear: "he'd pretty much be a $6.2mil Najera replacement in the rotation." Which will be an upgrade if you ask me. He's taller than Eddie and on the offensive end he's a threat.

I'd rather have Eddie's heart, hustle and court smarts. Thomas is tremondously gifted, but he hasn't tapped into that potential at all.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Underdog

It must be nice to control your own destiny...

Thanks for posting this article.

History has a way of rearing it's ugly head and the Chicago Bulls is doing just that. Trying to prove that it wasn't MJ is not hurting what the Bulls can do on the open market. I mean you have to wonder what Reinsdorf was doing in 1998 when he essentially cut ties with Phil, MJ and Scottie. I mean sure you want to prove you can build a winning team.....but at what price. Players are not stupid, they see things, they see Magic being a huge part of the Lakers, Kareem too, Dumars in Detroit. Where's MJ, Scottie? Just shows others your loyalty to your players.....Wade and James aren't that ignorant of NBA history to let it pass. You'll probably see 2nd tier players eat up their money, but it won't be bosh-James-Wade. They may use them for leverage, but none of the top 3 will be there.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Thanks for posting this article.

History has a way of rearing it's ugly head and the Chicago Bulls is doing just that. Trying to prove that it wasn't MJ is not hurting what the Bulls can do on the open market. I mean you have to wonder what Reinsdorf was doing in 1998 when he essentially cut ties with Phil, MJ and Scottie. I mean sure you want to prove you can build a winning team.....but at what price. Players are not stupid, they see things, they see Magic being a huge part of the Lakers, Kareem too, Dumars in Detroit. Where's MJ, Scottie? Just shows others your loyalty to your players.....Wade and James aren't that ignorant of NBA history to let it pass. You'll probably see 2nd tier players eat up their money, but it won't be bosh-James-Wade. They may use them for leverage, but none of the top 3 will be there.

i hear Ben Gordon is available

[Underdog]

Really, if we're going to add another 'tweener forward/center to back up Dirk, we might as well try to get Drew Gooden on the cheap...

[Kidd Karma]

Haha, just a little bit off, I'm sure they had visions of MJ-Pippen in Deng-Gordon.

[mavsfan4lyfe201]

lets be real here guys..gettin lebron will likely take a sign and trade..and wed def have to include beaubois.. which is fine if were gettin lebron, but its doubtful..

wade is attainable, but are he and dirk on talkin terms? last i checked they dont like one another..and i get the idea he wants to stay in miami and have boozer/bosh/amare join him..

id be happy with iguodala in dallas.. kidd iggy butler dirk haywood...i like it....

johnson is alot like iggy and would work but iggy provides more slashing..which is what we need badly.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201

johnson is alot like iggy and would work but iggy provides more slashing..which is what we need badly.

Why not both??

I already posted this in the offseason thread, but I'll put it here since it's pertinent.

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I wonder what it would take to get Iggy. If we could get him without giving up Roddy, I'd call that a home run. Throw in Dalembert and it's a grand slam.

If neither Lebron nor Wade wind up in Dallas (and I don't think they will), my ideal Plan B would be to Iggy and JJ for any combination of Damp&Butler + filler.

JKidd
JJ
Iggy
Dirk
Haywood

That starting five isn't necessarily overwhelming, but I think it would certainly be good enough to be a legit contender, especially with Roddy as our sixth man.

The more I think about it, the more I absolutely love this idea. Basketball-wise, that lineup is absolutely solid, inside and out and on both ends of the floor. I would put that team up against the Lakers any day.

Thinking about it a little more, the real long shot is landing either of these guys, Iggy in particular, without giving up Roddy. Butler for Iggy straight up works salary wise, and Butler's contract is up next year, so the Sixers would save a ton of money. Philly is over the cap, but I'm just not sure how desperate they are to shed salary. Without Roddy, they would probably demand that we take back another of their bad contracts, namely Brand, and I'm not sure we could even make that work salary-wise (although basketball-wise, it could work nicely)

That, and of course we would still have to convince JJ to come here and work a S&T with Atlanta. Who the hell knows how likely that is.

So yeah, it's a long shot, but certainly no more so than landing Lebron friggin James.

[Thespiralgoeson]

This works on realgm.

Dallas trades

Caron Butler
Jason Terry
Eduardo Najera

Philadelphia trades

Andre Iguodala
Elton Brand

Philly definitely loses on talent, but not too horribly, and they save a TON of money in the long run. The last years on both Jet's and Eddie's contracts are unguaranteed, so financially it makes great sense for Philly. The Mavs get a huge upgrade in talent. Aside from the obvious impact of Iggy, having a bench of Roddy/Marion/Brand would be pretty sick. I have serious doubts as to whether Cuban would be willing to take on that much salary, but I think it's a solid deal for the Mavs.

[dalmations202]

Does Philly kick in the #2 pick as well?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Does Philly kick in the #2 pick as well?

Why would they if they're rebuilding?

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why would they if they're rebuilding?

To get rid of the Brand contract.

Maybe????

They are basically trading Iggy for Butler and JET - then moving Brand and the cost is the #2 pick.

Although if I was Philly, I wouldn't. If I did then Dallas would be kicking in Damp, etc so I could clear massive $$$$$, and it would be a much larger deal.

<edit>

When I say larger deal I mean something like:
Brand, Iggy, Dalembert, #2 for Damp, Butler, JET, Stevenson, JJB.

Philly basically kills all the long term and BIG contracts, but aren't killed by no talent. They get their current youngsters like Holliday and Young lots of burn, but still have vets on short terms. They get killed by BIGS, but they are getting killed by BIGS now- and these have large contracts.

Dallas gets a shot NOW.
Kidd, Iggy, Marion, Dirk, Dalembert/ (resigned Haywood or Damp)
Roddy, #2 pick, Brand off the bench. 9 deep, and really only looking for a zone buster with the MLE.

Kidd is brains, leader, and spot up guy.
Iggy is slasher and Robin
Marion is clean up (trash guy - picks, alley oops, some low post stuff)
Dirk is Batman
Dalembert is middle defense and clean the glass (janitor).

Roddy is the penetrating PG.
Brand is the post (high and low) guy - especially when Dirk is off the floor - forcing post defense.
Haywood/Damp - both are 6 fouls and keep teams honest in the paint.
#2 pick which would most likely be Evan Turner - #1 swingman off the bench. Said to have excellent vision and handles - and a terrific crossover. Very long wingspan.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

When I say larger deal I mean something like:
Brand, Iggy, Dalembert, #2 for Damp, Butler, JET, Stevenson, JJB.

I think this would qualify as the largest 2-team deal in NBA history...

Bare bones, we can trade DUST for Iggy straight-up.

I somewhat agree with Caron Butler that this team could "come back the same next season and compete for a championship", but I think we're still a (moderate) piece or two away from that. Sure, that 13-win streak got our hopes up, but the reality is that the only mid-season moves that have ever yielded a championship were the Clyde Drexler and Rasheed Wallace trades. Most new starting lineups need a training camp and a full year of chemistry-building to take the next step.

The simple addition of Iggy would give us tremendous flexibility:

Kidd/Roddy/JJB
Iggy/Roddy/JET
Butler/Marion/Iggy
Dirk/Marion/Najera
Haywood/Damp/Dirk

I still think we need a better answer at the 5 (like Dalmbert or Brand or someone else... Haywood/Damp/Gooden?), but I also think Butler at the 3 can still be our Robin most nights. Add Iggy as another Robin at the 2 and I think we're in business, especially with Marion/Roddy/JET all capable of going off at any given moment...

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

To get rid of the Brand contract.

Maybe????

They are basically trading Iggy for Butler and JET - then moving Brand and the cost is the #2 pick.

Although if I was Philly, I wouldn't. If I did then Dallas would be kicking in Damp, etc so I could clear massive $$$$$, and it would be a much larger deal.

<edit>

When I say larger deal I mean something like:
Brand, Iggy, Dalembert, #2 for Damp, Butler, JET, Stevenson, JJB.

Philly basically kills all the long term and BIG contracts, but aren't killed by no talent. They get their current youngsters like Holliday and Young lots of burn, but still have vets on short terms. They get killed by BIGS, but they are getting killed by BIGS now- and these have large contracts.

Dallas gets a shot NOW.
Kidd, Iggy, Marion, Dirk, Dalembert/ (resigned Haywood or Damp)
Roddy, #2 pick, Brand off the bench. 9 deep, and really only looking for a zone buster with the MLE.

Kidd is brains, leader, and spot up guy.
Iggy is slasher and Robin
Marion is clean up (trash guy - picks, alley oops, some low post stuff)
Dirk is Batman
Dalembert is middle defense and clean the glass (janitor).

Roddy is the penetrating PG.
Brand is the post (high and low) guy - especially when Dirk is off the floor - forcing post defense.
Haywood/Damp - both are 6 fouls and keep teams honest in the paint.
#2 pick which would most likely be Evan Turner - #1 swingman off the bench. Said to have excellent vision and handles - and a terrific crossover. Very long wingspan.

I don't like this deal. Frankly I don't think that lineup would compete for the title. I still haven't given up on the idea of landing one of the major free agents, and so I don't want to throw in the DUST chip just to get the #2 pick, unless we absolutely know we're getting a future star (admittedly, I don't know anything about Evan Turner.)

For me, this would be more like plan C or D. As I said earlier, plan B for me essentially is JJ for DUST, and Iggy for Butler.

[RoddyB#3]

I like the ideas for getting something out of Philly, but I don't think it's going to happen. Collins has already said that he wants Iggy, Dalembert, and Brand to be starters. He even said one of his main priorities is to team up with Coach K and meet with Brand to have some fun. Mainly just trying to get Brand going again. He called Brand a leader and someone he plans to lean heavy on this coming season. He see's Iggy as a 3 and wants to see him be more aggressive. Dalembert is someone Collins has known since he played at Seton Hall under his son.

Philly is going to give Collins what he wants in his first year. Holiday/Turner/Iggy/Brand/Dalembert is probably what we will see. They will at least see how things work up until the deadline. Unfortunately for us, I believe Collins signing has put any big deal on hold unless it's a move that makes them better basketball wise. I don't believe they will look for money savings this off season. Unless they get off to a bad start. Then we might see something around the deadline.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by RoddyB#3

I like the ideas for getting something out of Philly, but I don't think it's going to happen. Collins has already said that he wants Iggy, Dalembert, and Brand to be starters. He even said one of his main priorities is to team up with Coach K and meet with Brand to have some fun. Mainly just trying to get Brand going again. He called Brand a leader and someone he plans to lean heavy on this coming season. He see's Iggy as a 3 and wants to see him be more aggressive. Dalembert is someone Collins has known since he played at Seton Hall under his son.

Philly is going to give Collins what he wants in his first year. Holiday/Turner/Iggy/Brand/Dalembert is probably what we will see. They will at least see how things work up until the deadline. Unfortunately for us, I believe Collins signing has put any big deal on hold unless it's a move that makes them better basketball wise. I don't believe they will look for money savings this off season. Unless they get off to a bad start. Then we might see something around the deadline.

i tend to agree with this

[dalmations202]

I tend to agree with all the above, and the bigger deal is from a Philly perspective - not a Dallas one.

Why would Philly do a Iggy for Damp? I can't see that one -- they want to get rid of Brands contract.

If you want Iggy from them, you have to take Brand, and send talent back, IMO.

Although I think Dallas could get it done, it would take a huge deal, IMO, to get Philly to do it --- which is the one I proposed.

With that said, I don't think Dallas would take on all that salary.
It is a thought though.

You might be able to get Brand/#2 for Dust/Barea -- but that isn't really advantageous to Dallas unless you are convinced Brand is back to his old form and Turner is your starting SG.

I don't see them moving Iggy though, without a major deal where they can literally blow it up totally and sign a free agent or two.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I tend to agree with all the above, and the bigger deal is from a Philly perspective - not a Dallas one.

Why would Philly do a Iggy for Damp? I can't see that one -- they want to get rid of Brands contract.

If you want Iggy from them, you have to take Brand, and send talent back, IMO.

Although I think Dallas could get it done, it would take a huge deal, IMO, to get Philly to do it --- which is the one I proposed.

With that said, I don't think Dallas would take on all that salary.
It is a thought though.

You might be able to get Brand/#2 for Dust/Barea -- but that isn't really advantageous to Dallas unless you are convinced Brand is back to his old form and Turner is your starting SG.

I don't see them moving Iggy though, without a major deal where they can literally blow it up totally and sign a free agent or two.

I absolutely agree that the only way to get Iggy is to take on Brand's contract as well, but in that sense I think sending Butler+Terry is a much preferable option to sending Damp. Butler's contract expires next year and Terry's last year is unguaranteed, so it still amounts to a ton of savings for Philly. This way we get the player we want and we can still use the DUST chip to land one of the big free agents (namely JJ).

But alas, Cuban probably isn't willing to take on that much salary.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Butler's contract expires next year and Terry's last year is unguaranteed, so it still amounts to a ton of savings for Philly.

Wait, what?

I thought Terry's last year was guaranteed - if not, I need to re-think the possibilities for this summer because I've pretty much assumed that he's untradeable until next year...

[KINGBEEF]

Hello Mr. Terry what number would you like here in Philly?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Wait, what?

I thought Terry's last year was guaranteed - if not, I need to re-think the possibilities for this summer because I've pretty much assumed that he's untradeable until next year...

At least it is according to ShamSports. Could be dead wrong for all I know, but that's always what I go by as far as salaries go.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa.../mavericks.jsp

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

At least it is according to ShamSports. Could be dead wrong for all I know, but that's always what I go by as far as salaries go.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa.../mavericks.jsp

Well I got my info from HoopsHype, so it isn't like my source is trustworthy...

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I absolutely agree that the only way to get Iggy is to take on Brand's contract as well...

If you're right about that then Iggy's staying put, because I don't think anybody's going to take on both those contracts.

That said, here's a completely untenable left-field idea that has Dallas doing just that: Damp+Marion+Carroll+Stevenson+Najera for Iggy+Brand. At first glance it seems like Marion with his mixed-bag of a contract (i.e., very reasonable salary but a bit longer than you'd like given his age) plus a bunch of junk, but it'd save Philly a ridiculous amount of cash. In fact, it'd save them so much (46 million over the next three years!!!) that I almost can't even imagine the Mavs would agree to do it unless Philly was willing to expand the deal to include JET, Kapono and the #2.

I'd kinda like that, though, I have to say. Bring in an inexpensive big body at center to complement Wood (we'll call said warm body 'Damp'), and:

Kidd(32) /Booby(16)
Iggy(22) /Turner(20) /Booby(6)
Caron(35) /Iggy(13)
Dirk(36) /Brand(12)
Wood(28) /Brand(14) /Damp(6)

...plus JJB and Kapono getting occasional situational and garbage minutes. You're gambling a bit on both extremes of the age spectrum in your backcourt and you've pretty much locked yourself into having a 90+ million dollar payroll for the next three years, but the talent level on that team (if Turner's a worthy #2 and Booby is what we think he is) would be through the roof.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If you're right about that then Iggy's staying put, because I don't think anybody's going to take on both those contracts.

That said, here's a completely untenable left-field idea that has Dallas doing just that: Damp+Marion+Carroll+Stevenson+Najera for Iggy+Brand. At first glance it seems like Marion with his mixed-bag of a contract (i.e., very reasonable salary but a bit longer than you'd like given his age) plus a bunch of junk, but it'd save Philly a ridiculous amount of cash. In fact, it'd save them so much (46 million over the next three years!!!) that I almost can't even imagine the Mavs would agree to do it unless Philly was willing to expand the deal to include JET, Kapono and the #2.

I'd kinda like that, though, I have to say. Bring in an inexpensive big body at center to complement Wood (we'll call said warm body 'Damp'), and:

Kidd(32) /Booby(16)
Iggy(22) /Turner(20) /Booby(6)
Caron(35) /Iggy(13)
Dirk(36) /Brand(12)
Wood(28) /Brand(14) /Damp(6)

...plus JJB and Kapono getting occasional situational and garbage minutes. You're gambling a bit on both extremes of the age spectrum in your backcourt and you've pretty much locked yourself into having a 90+ million dollar payroll for the next three years, but the talent level on that team (if Turner's a worthy #2 and Booby is what we think he is) would be through the roof.

Unless there's absolutely no chance whatsoever of us getting one of the big free agents, I have no interest in using the DUST chip on Iggy.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Unless there's absolutely no chance whatsoever of us getting one of the big free agents, I have no interest in using the DUST chip on Iggy.

If anything, Damp is my preferred route to landing guys like Iggy or JJ. I don't mind giving up a contributor like Butler for a Wade or a Lebron, but if I'm getting back a 'lesser' talent like Iggy I'd rather not be losing any talent in the trade.

[grndmstr_c]

Didn't patricia's site (am I remembering that correctly?) have info on JETs contract? I seem to remember that the last year wasn't fully guaranteed, but that the criteria that had to be met for the guarantee to kick in were pretty likely to be met.