GDT: Clippers @ Mavericks Game 4

[SMC0007]

DFS and THJ are gone in the last 2 games. This is why everyone who wanted an upgrade for these guys was correct. I know they don't grow on trees and aren't lined up outside the front office with applications to join the team but, as soon as some fringe decent players have a good stretch the city is ready to overpay and over hype them and use a permanent marker to lock them into their roles.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Id answer with an easy one.... The best player our franchise has ever seen. Dirk. Unfortunately KP isn't even a pimple on Dirks ass.

Dirk (who was already a bonafide superstar), one and a half seasons of Tyson....and Maxi?

It's fair to bring up the talent-level of the bigs, but I still think it's a bit weird and concerning.

There is absolutely no reason KP should be this lost. He deserves much of the blame, but the fit has been awkward since he got here.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

DFS and THJ are gone in the last 2 games. This is why everyone who wanted an upgrade for these guys was correct. I know they don't grow on trees and aren't lined up outside the front office with applications to join the team but, as soon as some fringe decent players have a good stretch the city is ready to overpay and over hype them and use a permanent marker to lock them into their roles.

You aren't upgrading DFS for that money. Take the W there, and improve elsewhere.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Simon2

Do you guys remember when the Utah Jazz were beating up on Dirk and the Mavs? The clippers are the Jazz of these Mavs. The Mavs have to learn from these games.

I don't think this is accurate

The Mavs upset the Jazz in Dirk's very 1st playoff series.

Some guy named Calvin Booth actually played a key role in that upset

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I mean it depends because I honestly don't believe in free agency they can even get a player the caliber of Tim Hardaway Jr.

When THJ isn't being gameplanned on he can be solid. He is just a streaky guy who can blow up and dissappear at the drop of a hat. People need to stop it, Seriously. When you focus on the "other guys" THJ Dfs Maxi KP are one dimensional. We made the big mistake of overpaying KP, we can't afford s to do it with THJ. It was worth the risk back in 2019 but good lord don't make the same mistakes again.

That said, i have predicted that THJ and JRich if he ops out will end up being 'THJs new contract. Unfortunately.

Now if KP was an all star level player, a 2 way player or even remotely close to what he's paid, we could perhaps justify THJs one dimensional specialty because he would get more open looks.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'd start Luka/Brunson/J-Rich/DFS/KP next game. You need a secondary handler if Luka is hurt. J-Rich is one of your only hopes at perimeter defense to go along with DFS. And I'd let KP man the middle and let him earn that money. It's just not working playing him with another big/center.

[tap2390]

Carlisle has his faults, but it’s just not his fault that the Clips can get away with the small ball lineup because Porzingis isn’t good enough to make the Clips pay for defending him with a wing. What is his fault is not responding with our own small ball lineup so we actually have a fighting chance on defense.

If we lose this series I let JRich and THJ walk and try to move KP for a Tristan Thompson/Marcus Smart package.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd start Luka/Brunson/J-Rich/DFS/KP next game. You need a secondary handler if Luka is hurt. J-Rich is one of your only hopes at perimeter defense to go along with DFS. And I'd let KP man the middle and let him earn that money. It's just not working playing him with another big/center.

I had this same thought. J-Rich and DFS are your two best wing defenders, and that's where the Mavs are being killed. THJ responded well to being brought off the bench earlier in the season.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by JTmoney2424

Kleber with a solid 0 points in 33 minutes

Maybe it's just me but Kleber just hasn't been the same defender as he was prior to last years playoffs.

I think the Mavs are going about this all wrong putting him on KL after he got torched last year by KL for 32 PPG on like 55% shooting.

I think Kleber actually matches up better on PG in single cover and then I'd use Luka on KL more often doing games.

I know this sounds crazy but I think Luka when engaged defensively has done pretty good and he might be our best option on KL because he's stronger than DFS. Luka can match his physicality 1 on 1 and you can double him more with Kleber handling single coverage on George.

DFS needs to switch over to Morris or Batum and THJ needs to only defend Jackson because all other options are just bad matchups for him.

We've seen the current matchups over the course of last year and this years playoffs for 10 games now and it's just not working.

Switch it up and try something new......

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

I had this same thought. J-Rich and DFS are your two best wing defenders, and that's where the Mavs are being killed. THJ responded well to being brought off the bench earlier in the season.

https://megaphone.link/VMP9911708458

They discuss Josh Richardson here

His defense hasn't really been any good. It's a fair assessment of the team in general tbh

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Carlisle has his faults, but it’s just not his fault that the Clips can get away with the small ball lineup because Porzingis isn’t good enough to make the Clips pay for defending him with a wing. What is his fault is not responding with our own small ball lineup so we actually have a fighting chance on defense.

If we lose this series I let JRich and THJ walk and try to move KP for a Tristan Thompson/Marcus Smart package.

How about: Powell, Maxi, DFS, THJ, Luka

Luka gets his roll man and plenty of space to operate. Hide Powell on Batum. Maxi on KL, DFS on PG, Luka on Morris, THJ on Reggie.

Porzingis, Brunson, Richardson off the bench with WCS, Boban, Melli, Green, Burke as needed.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

https://megaphone.link/VMP9911708458

They discuss Josh Richardson here

His defense hasn't really been any good. It's a fair assessment of the team in general tbh

Pretty decent breakdown of everything we’re saying

[purplefrog]

I don't have much in terms of a takeaway message from Game 4. It is not unusual for there to be an ebb and flow in a playoff series that makes the next game difficult to predict with any degree of certainty. Add to that the fact the Mavs have been inconsistent on both ends of the court from game to game all season + Luka's injury in game 4, and it becomes clear to me that anything can happen over the next two or three games. It would not be surprising to see the Mavs lose the next two games. I would also argue it would not be surprising to see the Mavs win the series in 6 or 7. Moreover, this year's playoffs feel different than in the past, so looking at historic trends might also be inadequate in predicting what will happen next. For example, I anticipate the pundits boldly stating the winner of Game 5 will win the series. I disagree. Neither team needs to win the next game or all is lost. Anything can happen.

I say all this because, in my opinion, it will not be an epic collapse if the Mavs lose this series. I also do not think it is a reflection on RC or the MBT for that matter if that is the outcome. The COVID season and the number of playoff injuries we are seeing makes it an "all bets off" road to the championship. That being said, I stick with my prediction and say the Mavs win in 7.

The KP story is another matter. If he doesn't show some spark of greatness, then I believe that part of the equation is solved. I do not have a plan for how the Mavs would move forward (Trade KP for peanuts (or less); do not re-sign THJ in order to make some cap room: trade JRich), but they should recalibrate their thinking that KP is a #2 or even #3 option on this team.

[Zeus]

Our pets heads are falling off. It is my opinion that if we lose in 6 again to the Clippers this season would be a failure be definition - absolutely no incremental improvement in playoff results vs. last year. That's if we lose out. If the Mavs lose in 7 then you can hang your hat on that at least they took it a step beyond last year.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Our pets heads are falling off. It is my opinion that if we lose in 6 again to the Clippers this season would be a failure be definition - absolutely no incremental improvement in playoff results vs. last year. That's if we lose out. If the Mavs lose in 7 then you can hang your hat on that at least they took it a step beyond last year.

I'd love to sell our dead bird to a blind kid. Aka KP to any team willing to trade for him. Unfortunately Billy in 4C isn't going to buy him.

THJ walking isn't near the worry that some people think it will be since the team we have around him can't get him good looks. He could help another team out more than he can this roster and system we run.

Dfs might as well be on covid protocol. Hes gone.

JRich...laughable. no way in hell he doesn't opt in.

I'd love for KP to beg for a trade this offseason.

[Simon2]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I don't think this is accurate

The Mavs upset the Jazz in Dirk's very 1st playoff series.

Some guy named Calvin Booth actually played a key role in that upset

What I meant is there always seems to be a team that is the foil. Jordan had the Pistons. Dirk had Jazz and Spurs. Maybe the Clippers will be Luka's foil till he becomes great.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Simon2

What I meant is there always seems to be a team that is the foil. Jordan had the Pistons. Dirk had Jazz and Spurs. Maybe the Clippers will be Luka's foil till he becomes great.

Luka is great. His supporting cast is garb

[Simon2]

In the last two games, does it look like the Mavs have moved away from the pick and roll? I thought that set with Luka and WCS or Powell would give nightmares to the Clippers. I would love to see Luka and KP pick and roll or pick and pop. It feels like the Mavs had swagger in the first two games and they made the Clippers adjust to them. They have now moved away from the strength of their offense and let KL and PG take the defenders one on one.

[mxr2000]

Damn it i can't believe we need JJ Barea since redic its out!

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I'd love to sell our dead bird to a blind kid. Aka KP to any team willing to trade for him. Unfortunately Billy in 4C isn't going to buy him.

THJ walking isn't near the worry that some people think it will be since the team we have around him can't get him good looks. He could help another team out more than he can this roster and system we run.

Dfs might as well be on covid protocol. Hes gone.

JRich...laughable. no way in hell he doesn't opt in.

I'd love for KP to beg for a trade this offseason.

Pretty KP, Pretty KP... while patting his head

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Our pets heads are falling off. It is my opinion that if we lose in 6 again to the Clippers this season would be a failure be definition - absolutely no incremental improvement in playoff results vs. last year. That's if we lose out. If the Mavs lose in 7 then you can hang your hat on that at least they took it a step beyond last year.

What else would people reasonably expect when they don't improve the team in the offseason? This isn't rocket science.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

What else would people reasonably expect when they don't improve the team in the offseason? This isn't rocket science.

While 2 way players should have been a priority last offseason, our FO was looking for a karate expert and specialists.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

While 2 way players should have been a priority last offseason, our FO was looking for a karate expert and specialists.

Well they specifically drafted players they knew they wouldn't play. So therefore, they think they are contenders. It's that delusion that really hurts the team. Had they integrated Bey and Green more during the season, then maybe we wouldn't see this horrid defense.

And this isn't even considering the FA failure where they can't even get crap ass Jae Crowder to play here.

I really don't want to keep kicking the team while they are down, but they really, really let the fans down last night. You and I were both there, and that was just tragic.

[washedklean77]

What kind of surprises me is that folks apparently were expecting a deep playoff run by this team according to all of these responses. The Mavs had damn near two perfect games to open this series including stellar performances by DFS and THJ. Is it realistic to think that trend would continue? Highly unlikely.

I think what we saw in the 2nd half last night was not just a team that simply lost the game. It was a team that knows that this series is over. These next two games will be ugly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Simon2]

Originally Posted by washedklean77

What kind of surprises me is that folks apparently were expecting a deep playoff run by this team according to all of these responses. The Mavs had damn near two perfect games to open this series including stellar performances by DFS and THJ. Is it realistic to think that trend would continue? Highly unlikely.

I think what we saw in the 2nd half last night was not just a team that simply lost the game. It was a team that knows that this series is over. These next two games will be ugly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am still hoping that the leaders step up. Someone must lead them. Is Luka mature enough? Maybe Brunson can be a leader. He did win with Villanova. I think this is the time when we will see if the Mavs are men or still boys.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by washedklean77

What kind of surprises me is that folks apparently were expecting a deep playoff run by this team according to all of these responses. The Mavs had damn near two perfect games to open this series including stellar performances by DFS and THJ. Is it realistic to think that trend would continue? Highly unlikely.

I think what we saw in the 2nd half last night was not just a team that simply lost the game. It was a team that knows that this series is over. These next two games will be ugly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sooo we can't expect THJ not to go 1-8?

My expectations really aren't that high. Play some defense, don't be afraid to shoot, hustle. None of those things were there last night. I'll take any loss as long as the team gives 110%.

[Simon2]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Sooo we can't expect THJ not to go 1-8?

My expectations really aren't that high. Play some defense, don't be afraid to shoot, hustle. None of those things were there last night. I'll take any loss as long as the team gives 110%.

Actually, I think THJ does play defense. Not your blocker but he does draw offensive fouls a lot. I think the guy who really gets lost of d is KP.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well they specifically drafted players they knew they wouldn't play. So therefore, they think they are contenders. It's that delusion that really hurts the team. Had they integrated Bey and Green more during the season, then maybe we wouldn't see this horrid defense.

And this isn't even considering the FA failure where they can't even get crap ass Jae Crowder to play here.

I really don't want to keep kicking the team while they are down, but they really, really let the fans down last night. You and I were both there, and that was just tragic.

People spent big money on tickets to go root them on and the team just basically said "thanks, but go f yourselves". It was a pathetic effort and I feel bad for all the fans the last 2 games. The team should send apology videos for that shit. The crowd was loud and giving all they could, and you could feel the team sucking the life out of the place.


The front office needs new blood with bigger and better ideas to bring in 2 way players and make tangible moves to take advantage of Luka.

I kept thinking how much different this team might be if we had Woods and Bane. But yet we have a Max Kp and no minute Green.

Also spot on with the lack of trying to work in Green and Bey during the season.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Simon2

Actually, I think THJ does play defense. Not your blocker but he does draw offensive fouls a lot. I think the guy who really gets lost of d is KP.

Sure he'll get you 1 charge per game

But how does that offset the fact that he's giving up tons of layups or dunks throughout the game?

IMO the Mavs biggest issue as a team starts with perimeter defense.

They can't stop anyone from getting into the paint and they get beat quite easily off the dribble.

Look at how many times Rondo has blown by our defenders....

Yes we lack rim protection but if you listen to the announcers from yesterday's game they repeatedly were confused as to how the Mavs were allowing the Clippers to easily get to the basket

It doesn't matter if KP, Boban or Kleber were at center if there's no resistance to stop guys from driving your going to get exploited in the paint even if you had Olajuwon, Ewing or Bill Russell as your shot blocker inside.

Then you watch another rookie in this series (Mann) thrown out there to help on Luka and it makes you think what risk is there to try Green a few minutes.

It's a mute point now but this is why I wish they were aggressive going after long guys like Gordon who can defend multiple positions instead of small guards like Redick via trades or FA signings every year.

Redick and Curry were redundant and Wright and Richardson were redundant and at end of the day the Mavs didn't really accomplish anything with those moves

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by washedklean77

What kind of surprises me is that folks apparently were expecting a deep playoff run by this team according to all of these responses. The Mavs had damn near two perfect games to open this series including stellar performances by DFS and THJ. Is it realistic to think that trend would continue? Highly unlikely.

I think what we saw in the 2nd half last night was not just a team that simply lost the game. It was a team that knows that this series is over. These next two games will be ugly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well as negative as I can be towards the team I actually thought they could win this series in 6 games even before going up 2-0

I still think they have a shot to win it but they have to figure out something with the Clippers role players.

KL and PG are going to get there's but you can't let the other Clippers out play your starters.

Jackson and Rondo have actually outplayed THJ and DFS these past two games and that shouldn't happen if you expect to win.

Boban sadly might be the only big we have that can punish the Clippers small lineups

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by washedklean77

What kind of surprises me is that folks apparently were expecting a deep playoff run by this team according to all of these responses. The Mavs had damn near two perfect games to open this series including stellar performances by DFS and THJ. Is it realistic to think that trend would continue? Highly unlikely.

I think what we saw in the 2nd half last night was not just a team that simply lost the game. It was a team that knows that this series is over. These next two games will be ugly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No I think people will be disappointed if the Mavs lose in 6 to the same team for a second straight season. Take it to 7 and you can say that was a slight amount of progress.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

People spent big money on tickets to go root them on and the team just basically said "thanks, but go f yourselves". It was a pathetic effort and I feel bad for all the fans the last 2 games. The team should send apology videos for that shit. The crowd was loud and giving all they could, and you could feel the team sucking the life out of the place.


The front office needs new blood with bigger and better ideas to bring in 2 way players and make tangible moves to take advantage of Luka.

I kept thinking how much different this team might be if we had Woods and Bane. But yet we have a Max Kp and no minute Green.

Also spot on with the lack of trying to work in Green and Bey during the season.

This is where Saddiq Bey could have helped in a 3 and D role because he isn't a liability on offense like Green. Year 4 for Luka already next year and likely still looking for his first playoff series win while there is a good chance that 2 of the teams a lot of us poked fun at, Atlanta and Phoenix, will likely have their first playoff series wins with Trae and Ayton.

[Dallas41]

I have to admit I thought KL would kill us again but I didn't expect him to do it with such ease

Dude is avg 33 PPG with shooting splits of 64/50/88

That's just flat out dominance

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Zeus

This is where Saddiq Bey could have helped in a 3 and D role because he isn't a liability on offense like Green. Year 4 for Luka already next year and likely still looking for his first playoff series win while there is a good chance that 2 of the teams a lot of us poked fun at, Atlanta and Phoenix, will likely have their first playoff series wins with Trae and Ayton.

I'm actually shocked at Atlanta because I thought they would be horrible defensively in the playoffs but guys like Gallo and Bog's have been better than i gave them credit for.....


Phoenix might have caught a break with AD injury but still they compete hard on both ends of the floor and I like their defensive wings....

I think Atlanta goes home 2nd round and Phoenix might actually get to the WCF if AD doesn't comeback this series.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I'm actually shocked at Atlanta because I thought they would be horrible defensively in the playoffs but guys like Gallo and Bog's have been better than i gave them credit for.....


Phoenix might have caught a break with AD injury but still they compete hard on both ends of the floor and I like their defensive wings....

I think Atlanta goes home 2nd round and Phoenix might actually get to the WCF if AD doesn't comeback this series.

I definitely think Atlanta goes home next series but it is going to kill most of us Mavs fans to see Trae win a series before Luka. However I believe Luka with Atlanta's talent would make them a much better team than Trae and conversely Trae on this Mavs team would be waiting for their lottery pick. Luka is better, hands down but the national narrative will be Trae has what it takes and Luka couldn't get it done. I hate those narratives..

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Pretty decent breakdown of everything we’re saying

Some of the sites I've visited have also started pointing to Richardson back as starter since Kleber really hasn't done much to slow down KL.

I guess this is worth a shot and we have to hope and pray Richardson turns a switch on

Move Dorian Finney-Smith to the four
This is the easy and obvious answer: match the Clippers small ball. Dallas has started Kleber and Porzingis in the frontcourt in every game, mostly because Kleber seems to be the only option to physically matchup with Kawhi Leonard. About that — Leonard is making basically everything, regardless of Kleber’s level of defense.

So if Kleber can’t slow down Leonard, sizing down to match the Clippers speed of their small ball lineups could maybe help. All season, the Mavericks presumptive “death lineup”, the ace in the hole the Mavericks could go to, would be Luka Doncic, Tim Hardaway Jr., Josh Richardson, Finney-Smith and Porzingis. Especially before the season, the assumption was these were the Mavericks five best players, so getting them all on the floor at the same time could help.

That lineup in the regular season has been bad, due to Richardson’s poor season. In 83 regular season minutes, it’s posted a net-rating of minus-21, according to NBA.com. Perhaps that’s why Rick Carlisle has been hesitant to go with it in this series.

Richardson hasn’t really show enough in these playoff games to change that line of thinking, outside of a great fourth quarter in Game 1, but it might be time to just throw it at the wall and see what sticks. For what it’s worth, that lineup has played three minutes in this playoff series and have outscored the Clippers by seven points in those three minutes.

It’s only three minutes. That’s smaller than a small sample size — but with how this series is trending, it might be worth it. Stick Richardson on Paul George, put Finney-Smith on Leonard and just hope that is enough to at least temper the effectiveness of the Clippers small ball havoc. With how the Mavericks have played on offense for three out of the four games, a little defensive improvement can go a long way.

This is why you traded for a player like Richardson. It might be time to try it out.

[tap2390]

Dallas41 is exactly right — I would just add that you can make it an 8 man rotation with Brunson, WCS, and Maxi also getting minutes.

[Simon2]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Some of the sites I've visited have also started pointing to Richardson back as starter since Kleber really hasn't done much to slow down KL.

I guess this is worth a shot and we have to hope and pray Richardson turns a switch on

Move Dorian Finney-Smith to the four
This is the easy and obvious answer: match the Clippers small ball. Dallas has started Kleber and Porzingis in the frontcourt in every game, mostly because Kleber seems to be the only option to physically matchup with Kawhi Leonard. About that — Leonard is making basically everything, regardless of Kleber’s level of defense.

So if Kleber can’t slow down Leonard, sizing down to match the Clippers speed of their small ball lineups could maybe help. All season, the Mavericks presumptive “death lineup”, the ace in the hole the Mavericks could go to, would be Luka Doncic, Tim Hardaway Jr., Josh Richardson, Finney-Smith and Porzingis. Especially before the season, the assumption was these were the Mavericks five best players, so getting them all on the floor at the same time could help.

That lineup in the regular season has been bad, due to Richardson’s poor season. In 83 regular season minutes, it’s posted a net-rating of minus-21, according to NBA.com. Perhaps that’s why Rick Carlisle has been hesitant to go with it in this series.

Richardson hasn’t really show enough in these playoff games to change that line of thinking, outside of a great fourth quarter in Game 1, but it might be time to just throw it at the wall and see what sticks. For what it’s worth, that lineup has played three minutes in this playoff series and have outscored the Clippers by seven points in those three minutes.

It’s only three minutes. That’s smaller than a small sample size — but with how this series is trending, it might be worth it. Stick Richardson on Paul George, put Finney-Smith on Leonard and just hope that is enough to at least temper the effectiveness of the Clippers small ball havoc. With how the Mavericks have played on offense for three out of the four games, a little defensive improvement can go a long way.

This is why you traded for a player like Richardson. It might be time to try it out.

Match the Clipper small ball? You mean the small ball with a 6'9 Paul George and a 2 two final MVP Leonard? Matching small ball would be insane and would be the exact trap the Clippers are setting. Play Maxi and KP together and go big. Pick and roll with Luka. Even replace KP with Powell so more pick and roll options. The other people wait on the three point line for their set shot.

[oilfieldtrash]

I haven't been watching this year. Could someone tell me why Dallas didn't have a full capacity crowd in Dallas? Seems like a really stupid time to be virtue signaling when you are up 2-0 and have two games at home.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Simon2

Match the Clipper small ball? You mean the small ball with a 6'9 Paul George and a 2 two final MVP Leonard? Matching small ball would be insane and would be the exact trap the Clippers are setting. Play Maxi and KP together and go big. Pick and roll with Luka. Even replace KP with Powell so more pick and roll options. The other people wait on the three point line for their set shot.

Pick and roll works great when you have a roll man. We have one roll man coming off an achilles injury and one pick and pop man who can't post up Reggie Jackson.