Bush's military record

[dude1394]

In a nutshell.

the real record

September 9, 2004
BYRON YORK

Bush’s National Guard years
Before you fall for Dems’ spin, here are the facts

What do you really know about George W. Bush’s time in the Air National Guard?
That he didn’t show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a physical? That his daddy got him in?

News coverage of the president’s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time — to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did:

The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

Not two years of weekends. Two years.

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.

According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).

Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?

That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).

Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.

“In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,” Campenni says. “The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.”

So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.

Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.

In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.

During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.

A 1970 evaluation said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”

A 1971 evaluation called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a 1972 evaluation called Bush “an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.”

Now, it is only natural that news reports questioning Bush’s service — in The Boston Globe and The New York Times, on CBS and in other outlets — would come out now. Democrats are spitting mad over attacks on John Kerry’s record by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

And, as it is with Kerry, it’s reasonable to look at a candidate’s entire record, including his military service — or lack of it. Voters are perfectly able to decide whether it’s important or not in November.

The Kerry camp blames Bush for the Swift boat veterans’ attack, but anyone who has spent much time talking to the Swifties gets the sense that they are doing it entirely for their own reasons.

And it should be noted in passing that Kerry has personally questioned Bush’s service, while Bush has not personally questioned Kerry’s.

In April — before the Swift boat veterans had said a word — Kerry said Bush “has yet to explain to America whether or not, and tell the truth, about whether he showed up for duty.” Earlier, Kerry said, “Just because you get an honorable discharge does not, in fact, answer that question.”

Now, after the Swift boat episode, the spotlight has returned to Bush.

That’s fine. We should know as much as we can.

And perhaps someday Kerry will release more of his military records as well.
Byron York is a White House correspondent for National Review. His column appears in The Hill each week. E-mail: byork@thehill.com

[Drbio]

Are you questioning Kerry's patriotism again dude? [img]i/expressions/moon.gif[/img]

[dude1394]

Yes.

[MavKikiNYC]

Oh, yes...and he was also a war-time Commander in Chief from 11 September 2001 through the present.

[FishForLunch]

I always wanted to find out if serving in the Armed forces 4 months more valuable that serving 4 years as the Comander in Chief of the Armed Forces + he served 2 years in the National Guard

[LRB]

Funny how the "balanced" reporting of the MSM has missed this little nugget of information. Not funny ha ha, but rather funny in a sick pathetic sort of way.

[Mavdog]

oh no, don't look now but the Bush record has some problems in it. Woe is me, Bush doesn't have all his t's crossed and i's dotted in his military record.

Suspended from flying? fuhgetaboutit.
Absent for almost a year? fuhgetaboutit.
Failed to take a mandatory physical? fuhgetaboutit
White House didn't release all the records? fuhgetaboutit
A superior applied pressure to give Bush a higher grade? fuhgetaboutit.

I can't wait to see how those who have claimed that his record is spotless to explain this away. They can't, but that won't stop them from trying.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Memos: Bush Suspended From Guard Flying

26 minutes ago

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Addressing questions that have lingered for years, newly unearthed memos state that George W. Bush failed to meet standards of the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam war, that he refused a direct order and that his superiors were in a state of turmoil over how to evaluate his performance after he was suspended from flying.

One military official "is pushing to sugar coat it," one memo says of a proposed evaluation of Bush.

"On this date I ordered that 1st Lt. Bush be suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards and failure to meet annual physical examination ... as ordered," says an Aug. 1, 1972 memo by a superior officer, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who is now dead. Killian said in the memo that he wanted a formal inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the flight suspension. No records have surfaced that one was ever conducted.

"I conveyed my verbal orders to commander," Killian's memo stated.

The same memo notes that Bush was trying to transfer to non-flying status out of state and recommends that the Texas unit fill his flying slot "with a more seasoned pilot from the list of qualified Vietnam pilots that have rotated."

The Vietnam-era documents add details to the bare-bones explanation of Bush's aides over the years that he was suspended simply because he decided to skip his flight physical.

The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was "for record" and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was "for 1st Lt. George W. Bush."

"I can't explain why that wouldn't be in his record, but they were found in Jerry Killian's personal records," White House communications director Dan Bartlett told CBS's "60 Minutes II," which first obtained the memos.

Bartlett said Bush's superiors granted permission to train in Alabama in a non-flying status and that "many of the documents you have here affirm just that."

A memo dated May 19, 1972, five days after Bush was supposed to have completed his physical, summarizes a telephone discussion with Bush about how he "can get out of coming to drill from now through November." It says Bush was "told he could do ET for three months or transfer." ET referred to equivalent training, a procedure for meeting training requirements without attending regularly scheduled drills.

The same memo says "we talked abut him getting his flight physical situation fixed" and quotes Bush as saying he would "do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status." It also says, "I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment."

Democratic Party chairman Terry McAuliffe said, "George W. Bush's cover story on his National Guard service is rapidly unraveling. ... George W. Bush needs to answer why he regularly misled the American people about his time in the Guard and who applied political pressure on his behalf to have his performance reviews 'sugarcoated'"

Bartlett told CBS, "As it says in your own documents, President Bush (news - web sites) talked to the commanders about the fact that he'd be transferring to a unit ... in Alabama that didn't fly that plane," the F-102, the type Bush was trained in.

Using only last names, one of the newly disclosed documents points to sharp disagreement among Bush's superiors in Texas over how to evaluate his performance for the period from mid-1972 through mid-1973.

"Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush," Killian wrote on Aug. 18, 1973. "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job — Harris gave me a message today from Grp regarding Bush's OETR and Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any comments from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate." Grp refers to a military unit and OETR stands for officer efficiency training report.

The memo concludes: "Harris took the call from Grp today. I'll backdate but won't rate. Harris agrees."

At the time, Walter B. Staudt was commander of the Texas National Guard; Lt. Col. Bobby Hodges was one of Bush's superiors in Texas who two years earlier had rated Bush an outstanding young pilot; and Lt. Col. William D. Harris Jr. was another superior of Bush's.

Records released this year when Bush's military service re-emerged as a campaign issue contain no evidence that he showed up for duty at all for five months in mid-1972 and document only a few occasions later that year.

Asked about Killian's statement in a memo about the military's investment in Bush, Bartlett told CBS: "For anybody to try to interpret or presume they know what somebody who is now dead was thinking in any of these memos, I think is very difficult to do."

[kg_veteran]

oh no, don't look now but the Bush record has some problems in it. Woe is me, Bush doesn't have all his t's crossed and i's dotted in his military record.

Suspended from flying? fuhgetaboutit.

Because he missed a physical, apparently. I'm not sure what significance this has. Did Bush ever claim that he WASN'T suspended from flying or somesuch?

Absent for almost a year? fuhgetaboutit.

Didn't he request and receive permission to transfer to Alabama? So what?

Failed to take a mandatory physical? fuhgetaboutit

What's the significance of this?

White House didn't release all the records? fuhgetaboutit

Considering that the new records were found in the records of a superior officer, not in Bush's records, I don't really see how what the White House said was untrue. They DID release all of the records in Bush's file.

EDIT -- From the AP on this point:

Meanwhile, the Texas Air National Guard released 128 pages of records on Bush's service from 1968 to 1973, all of which had been previously released by the White House. Two Texas officials said in sworn affidavits that the records were all the Texas Guard had on Bush's service.

CBS reported Wednesday night that it had obtained personal files from one of Bush's Texas commanders saying Bush discussed with him how to avoid drills during 1972. The report on "60 Minutes" said the files were from the personal records of Col. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984.

Clearly, the White House told the truth. You and McAuliffe should apologize.

A superior applied pressure to give Bush a higher grade? fuhgetaboutit.

Do we have an explanation as to why the superior officer did that? Do we know whether Bush KNEW that the superior officer did that? Those are important details that are left out.

I can't wait to see how those who have claimed that his record is spotless to explain this away. They can't, but that won't stop them from trying.

Who claimed that his record was 'spotless'?

These records do raise some new questions (like why a superior was pushing for a higher grade), but I really don't see any smoking guns here. Do you?

Now, let's get those Kerry records and see what they reveal...

[Mavdog]

[quote]
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Because he missed a physical, apparently. I'm not sure what significance this has. Did Bush ever claim that he WASN'T suspended from flying or somesuch?

no, Bush never claimed that he didn't receive a suspension, but then he never disclosed that he was suspended either.

Didn't he request and receive permission to transfer to Alabama? So what?

I've read that he never did receive permission for the Alabama transfer, he needed permission from superiors in Colorado (?) and it was never granted.

What's the significance of this[failure to take a physical]?

It certainly raises the question of why, with the follow up question of if he was attempting to hide something (see, we've been watching this type of innuendo playing out on Kerry so let's jump on the bandwagon!)

Considering that the new records were found in the records of a superior officer, not in Bush's records, I don't really see how what the White House said was untrue. They DID release all of the records in Bush's file.

That was just in refernce to this memo, other docs have been located due to a Freedom request to DoD.

Do we have an explanation as to why the superior officer did that? Do we know whether Bush KNEW that the superior officer did that? Those are important details that are left out.

It's certainly not something that that superior did for everybody, and there are ties between senior Bush and this individual.

Who claimed that his record was 'spotless'?

see above.

These records do raise some new questions (like why a superior was pushing for a higher grade), but I really don't see any smoking guns here. Do you?

Now, let's get those Kerry records and see what they reveal...

Actually can't we all just say that they both received an Honorable Discharge and leave it at that?

This is the descent that I did not wish to see take place. Those who have been dogging Kerry for his records have an insatiable quest to demean his service. The records that have been available didn't prove their accusations? Let's get more records then they're screaming. Now we have the same enthusiasm of taking Bush's service and finding embarassing points in it.

Did Dubya get preferential treatment? sure, and so did a lot of people of had the connections. That's reality, it will always occur.
Did Kerry use his medals to get transferred out of Nam? sure, and why not leave the war if you could? I'd be more concerned if he wanted to stay, someone who enjoys war sure wouldn't be my choice as Pres...

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
no, Bush never claimed that he didn't receive a suspension, but then he never disclosed that he was suspended either.

He produced all of his records. I'm not sure what more you want him to do.

I've read that he never did receive permission for the Alabama transfer, he needed permission from superiors in Colorado (?) and it was never granted.

If he didn't receive permission for the Alabama transfer and truly went AWOL ("absent without leave"), I find it really hard to believe that he would have been honorably discharged.

It certainly raises the question of why, with the follow up question of if he was attempting to hide something (see, we've been watching this type of innuendo playing out on Kerry so let's jump on the bandwagon!)

I think it's fair to ask why. I suspect the reason had nothing to do with trying to hide anything, but it's a fair enough question. Still, to jump to conclusions that it has any real relevance is a bit premature, I think.

That was just in refernce to this memo, other docs have been located due to a Freedom request to DoD.

Not to get technical, but I believe that the White House said that they had released all of his National Guard records. And they did. If the Department of Defense had additional records on Bush (which apparently were hard to find, because they had to admittedly perform a "more comprehensive search" in response to a lawsuit filed by the AP), the White House didn't lie about those. In fact, for those that know how records requests like this actually work, the chances are good that when and if Bush requested his records from the Department of Defense, they probably didn't provide these new records to him, either.

It's certainly not something that that superior did for everybody, and there are ties between senior Bush and this individual.

Fair enough. Let's investigate it, but all of the "Six Degrees of..." nonsense has been performed before, on the 527s. Speculation is for the tabloids.

Actually can't we all just say that they both received an Honorable Discharge and leave it at that?

If everyone was willing to do that, we probably could. But that will never happen, and you and I both know it. So the only fair solution is to get all the information out on the table, and evaluate if anything of substance is really there.

[LRB]

Those who have been dogging Kerry for his records have an insatiable quest to demean his service. The records that have been available didn't prove their accusations? Let's get more records then they're screaming.

Kerry has only released a handful out of over 100 pages of records. Why can't Kerry release all the records in his DOD file the same way Bush released all the records in his DOD file?

[Drbio]

Kerry is afraid of releasing his records. Period. Until he does so he will be relentlessly pounded by the swifties and others whose claims are believable until kerrys released records show otherwise.

Release the records dumbass.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB

Kerry has only released a handful out of over 100 pages of records. Why can't Kerry release all the records in his DOD file the same way Bush released all the records in his DOD file?

So nice of you to prove my point of the "insatiable quest" for more Kerry records.

Actually, the accurate phrase would be "Kerry has released over 40 sets of his service records with only a handful of personal records not released (such as medical reports)."

[Drbio]

Nobody "proved" a point for your mavdoogie. It is impossible since your points are always entrenched in idiocy and incomprehensible rantings.

Kerry is hiding. He won't allow a full disclosure of his records because he knows it will bend him over and he'll have to take a huge rear popping from the MSM, the swifties, everyone.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: Drbio
Nobody "proved" a point for your mavdoogie. It is impossible since your points are always entrenched in idiocy and incomprehensible rantings.

Kerry is hiding. He won't allow a full disclosure of his records because he knows it will bend him over and he'll have to take a huge rear popping from the MSM, the swifties, everyone.

I see DrCleo is still focused on rectums...you should get some help for you preoccupation with people's anus. It's unhealthy.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
Actually, the accurate phrase would be "Kerry has released over 40 sets of his service records with only a handful of personal records not released (such as medical reports)."

My understanding is that only 6 out of about 100 pages of his naval records have been produced.

[Drbio]

I see mavdoogie is intent on being the forum d*ckhead again. Still trying to evade the issue at hand. Kerrys refusal to fully disclose his records.


Release the records Kerry. If there is nothing to worry about release them. Of course there is something to worry about. The facts, which is why he is evading the release and full disclosure.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

My understanding is that only 6 out of about 100 pages of his naval records have been produced.

And even those six are not fully disclosed as there as passages marked out.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Drbio

And even those six are not fully disclosed as there as passages marked out.

Honestly, why would anyone NOT be in favor of the production of all of the records? I think that's pretty much an indefensible position at this point.

[knowitall]

Hey doc, why don't you look up his ass for the records. It's not like it's unfamiliar territory for you.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

My understanding is that only 6 out of about 100 pages of his naval records have been produced.

here's the list of available records of Kerry from the FindLaw website:

Purple Heart Awards (3) (PDF) For wounds received in action on Dec. 2, 1968, Feb. 20, 1969, and Mar. 17, 1969
Silver Star (PDF) For displaying "courage under fire, outstanding leadership, and exemplary professionalism" while acting as the Officer in Charge of a Tactical Command on Feb. 28, 1969.
Bronze Star (PDF) For "professionalism, great personal courage under fire, and complete dedication to duty" in rescuing, while wounded, a man overboard following a mine explosion, directing his gunners to provide supporting fire for the rescue, and towing a damaged boat to safety under enemy fire on March 13, 1969
Acceptance of Discharge Naval Reserve (PDF) July 13, 1978
Background Information (PDF) Feb. 1, 1966
Bupers Orders to Gridley (PDF) Nov. 17, 1966
Change of Duty (PDF) July 8, 1968
DD214 (PDF)
Duty Recommendations (PDF)
Emergency Data (PDF) Sept. 12, 1967
Enlistment Contract (PDF) Feb. 18, 1966
Enlistment Photo (PDF) Dec. 16, 1966
Fitness Reports (PDF) Apr. 12, 1967
Honorable Discharge from Reserve (PDF) Feb. 16, 1978
Leave Record (PDF)
National Defense Service Medal (PDF)
Naval Messages (PDF) Dec. 8, 1969
Naval OCS Report (PDF)
Nuclear Weapons Training Certificate (PDF) For training from May 8 - 11, 1967
Office Order Memos (PDF) Dec. 5, 1969
Officer Candidate Agreement (PDF) Feb. 18, 1966
Order to Officer Candidate (PDF) July 14, 1966
Pay Entry Base Date (PDF) Listed as Feb. 18, 1966
Personnel Casualty Report (PDF)
Presidential Unit Citation (PDF) "For Extraordinary Herosim" from Dec. 6, 1968 to Mar. 31, 1969
Qualifying Questionnaire (PDF) Oct. 16, 1970
Recommendations for Next (PDF) Nov. 24, 1969
Record of Discharge (PDF)
Release From Active Duty (PDF) Jan. 2, 1970
Report of Home of Record (PDF) Dec. 1966
Request for History of Service (PDF) May 24, 1986
Request for Swiftboat Duty (PDF) Feb. 10, 1968
Research Sheet F4-15 (PDF) June 21, 1967
Reserve Office Appointment (PDF) Dec. 16, 1966
Security Clearances (PDF) Dec. 16, 1966
Service Record (PDF) Prepared Jan. 25, 1985
Serviceman's Life Insurance (PDF) Dec. 8-9, 1968
Statement of Service (PDF) June 21, 1967
Thrice Wounded Reassignment (PDF) March 17, 1969
Top Secret Clearance (PDF) April 28, 1969
Training School Record (PDF) Feb. 18, 1968
Transfer to Standby Reserve (PDF) March 1, 1972
Travel Payment Order (PDF) Undated
Vietnam Service Medal (PDF) April 8, 1968
(Source: John Kerry for President, Inc.).


Kerry/Bush records

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Honestly, why would anyone NOT be in favor of the production of all of the records? I think that's pretty much an indefensible position at this point.

I'm not certain it is our right to be given access to his (or anybody's in this regard) medical records. There may be notations in there that just are not anybody's business to see.

[kg_veteran]

Mavdog - I've seen that list. I'd have to go back and find the article, but I think it's pretty well-established that there are a lot of Kerry records that haven't been disclosed. That's why so many people have asked Kerry to sign the Form 180.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
I'm not certain it is our right to be given access to his (or anybody's in this regard) medical records. There may be notations in there that just are not anybody's business to see.

Let's take it one step at a time.

First, I'm not talking exclusively about medical records. There are many military records related to Kerry that can only be released wth a Form 180, something Kerry won't sign. Those aren't medical records. They are military records, which include after-action reports and other documentation. And there's no legitimate reason that I can see for Kerry not to authorize the release of those records.

Second, as for the medical records, I can understand a privacy argument as to records that have nothing to do with war injuries. But those are the records everyone says he should release, and he's not willing to do it.

[mavsman55]

Mavdog, it is so simple. If there's nothing bad in the military records, then release them. Plain and simple. The only possible logical reason for Kerry not releasing his military records would be that there is something in there that he doesn't want any of us to see.

[LRB]

If Kerry wants to keep his military medical records private then he shouldn't run for President on a platform of being a Vietnam hero with 3 purple hearts.

[mavsman55]

Originally posted by: LRB
If Kerry wants to keep his military medical records private then he shouldn't run for President on a platform of being a Vietnam hero with 3 purple hearts.

Perfect.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB
If Kerry wants to keep his military medical records private then he shouldn't run for President on a platform of being a Vietnam hero with 3 purple hearts.

odd of you to say that, his website has pages and pages of a platform for voters to decide on with nary a mention of Vietnam or any medals.

but then facts have never stood in your way before....

[madape]

Yeah, Kerry never mentions his Vietnam experience as a qualification for president [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

[kg_veteran]

Come on, Mavdog. Don't start that again. It's a tired (and inaccurate) argument.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: madape
Yeah, Kerry never mentions his Vietnam experience as a qualification for president [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

read thru his speeches, From the convention through the first week in September it was mentioned how many times in his speeches?

once.

So much for running "on a platform of being a Vietnam hero with 3 purple hearts".

and that mention was in a discussion of how all the varied peoples (black, white, rich, poor) came together as one when in a unit together.

[kg_veteran]

Even his supporters concede that Kerry has focused on his Vietnam service as qualifying him for the job. Clinton told him to stop talking about it.

You're just being obtuse if you continue to insist that Kerry hasn't focused on his Vietnam service. Sure, he has a platform, albeit a very vague one, but he's only recently started to talk about it in any detail at all.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Come on, Mavdog. Don't start that again. It's a tired (and inaccurate) argument.

What is "inaccurate" is to call his service "the centerpiece of his campaign" or "the platform" that his campaign is based on.

It ignores all the issues that a voter is being asked to consider.

I've never disagreed that his service is a big part of his candidacy, more so when he was in the primaries and less so as he has focused on one opponent.

To say that Kerry is asking for a vote just due to his being in Nam is ignoring the facts.

[LRB]

Mavdog you're a complete idiot if you deny that Kerry is using his Vietnam service as a reason for voters to vote for him. If he's going to do that then he needs to open up the records.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

What is "inaccurate" is to call his service "the centerpiece of his campaign" or "the platform" that his campaign is based on.

It's not inaccurate. It's what analysts and commentators on both sides of the aisle have said.

To say that Kerry is asking for a vote just due to his being in Nam is ignoring the facts.

Nobody has said that, to my knowledge.

[madape]

I've been skipping over Mavdogs posts ever since he cheered as terrorists killed Russian children claming that the Russians are "reaping what they sewed". It's been over a week since I even checked to see what he has to say, and what is he talking about? How Kerry never speaks of his Vietnam experience.

It's about that time to dump your handle and create a new account. Your posts are nothing but dishonest, hateful shit. I for one will never read another thing you post. You might as well be reeds or epitome22. In fact, I'm making it official and putting you on my ignore list, and I've never done that before on this board.

Good Bye

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: madape
I've been skipping over Mavdogs posts ever since he cheered as terrorists killed Russian children claming that the Russians are "reaping what they sewed". It's been over a week since I even checked to see what he has to say, and what is he talking about? How Kerry never speaks of his Vietnam experience.

Your inability to think is quite revealing (or revolting as is the case in this instance).

First off, it is "reaping what they sowed". If they "reaped what they sewed" they would be doing nothing but dressing themselves.
Yet that is just one indication of your misunderstanding of the english language, to wit:
"reaping what they sowed" does in no way connotate "cheering for the terrorists" no matter how hard you try. Any further linkage only reinforces how the concept is beyond your ability. The Russians can't have blame in addition to the perpetrators? Surely they can and did.
whoosh. right over your head.
Second, if you read correctly you will discover your error of stating "How Kerry never speaks of his Vietnam experience". Odd, but YOU are the only one to utter that claim.
Better luck next time in your attempt to make a false statement seem credible.

It's about that time to dump your handle and create a new account. Your posts are nothing but dishonest, hateful shit. I for one will never read another thing you post. You might as well be reeds or epitome22. In fact, I'm making it official and putting you on my ignore list, and I've never done that before on this board.

Good Bye

no, for me it's good riddance to you. You are a self centered, self absorbed miscreant who distorts the truth to serve your own purposes.

[reeds]

"It's about that time to dump your handle and create a new account. Your posts are nothing but dishonest, hateful shit. I for one will never read another thing you post. You might as well be reeds or epitome22. In fact, I'm making it official and putting you on my ignore list, and I've never done that before on this board.

Good Bye "

Typical reponse when defeated..just give up the fight..throw in the towel..waive the white flag...you, Drbio, LRB...give up and admit it- bush is the root of all evil..he is behind all your hatred towards the progressive side of things..

[LRB]

Ok I give up Reeds and admit that you are the root of all stupidity. In all the world, you are in a class by yourself when it comes to being a dumbass. To call you moron would be to insult morons around the world.

[knowitall]

Don't worry about it Reeds. Just think about how many times a day they have to pull their heads out of the sand to speak.