PGT: Mavs beat Magic, despite a 4th quarter that was uglier than Elfrid Payton's hair - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 03-18-2015, 09:42 PM

A win is a win?

FreshJive · 03-18-2015, 09:43 PM

This was a moral loss.

sefant77 · 03-18-2015, 09:44 PM

Time to fix our FT shooting for the playoffs

Despite a few too many TO Rondo looked again really good today.

Time for Mark to buy Holger a freaking apartment in Dallas

Dnowit41 · 03-18-2015, 09:47 PM

Did Parsons get benched? Or did Carlisle prefer Aminu down the stretch?

yahyes · 03-18-2015, 09:49 PM

No win is easy now.

Underdog · 03-18-2015, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dnowit41

Did Parsons get benched? Or did Carlisle prefer Aminu down the stretch?

I think he just wanted to give Aminu some burn against a bad team... We're prepping for the playoffs.

Underdog · 03-18-2015, 09:52 PM

Oh, and I'll take 25/8 from Dirk any night, thank you!

FreshJive · 03-18-2015, 09:54 PM

Tim MacMahon @espn_macmahon · 32m 32 minutes ago
Mavs up 6, 3:05 to go. Does Rick Carlisle stick with Al-Farouq Aminu or put Chandler Parsons in? CP been on bench since Harkless blow-by.

CGM · 03-18-2015, 09:57 PM

sike · 03-18-2015, 09:58 PM

Don't like the move from Rick ending Parsons' night early.

The guy has been playing out of his mind and gets benched for what? A couple poor defensive plays?

Melonhead · 03-18-2015, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Don't like the move from Rick ending Parsons' night early.

The guy has been playing out of his mind and gets benched for what? A couple poor defensive plays?

Agreed. Maybe he figured the team would be fine without him down the stretch, but I didnt like it.

Also, its a win. But a disheartening win.

sefant77 · 03-18-2015, 10:14 PM

Old Rondo beat new Rondo

Underdog · 03-18-2015, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGM

Hey, at least Eddie Murphy's Buckwheat had some uniformity to his hair - Payton's looks like he slept on one side and never bothered to even it out when he woke up.

Underdog · 03-18-2015, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Don't like the move from Rick ending Parsons' night early.

The guy has been playing out of his mind and gets benched for what? A couple poor defensive plays?

To be fair, we don't know exactly why Parsons got benched... I'm sure BG's quoteboard will clear things up a bit.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-18-2015, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Don't like the move from Rick ending Parsons' night early.

The guy has been playing out of his mind and gets benched for what? A couple poor defensive plays?

Agreed. Last thing you want to do is throw Parsons out of his rhythm this late in the season when the team needs him to be at his best.

sefant77 · 03-18-2015, 10:24 PM

Payton looks like the Child of Eddy Murray and Whitney Houston

FreshJive · 03-18-2015, 10:34 PM

Someone at db.com posted this from the post game

"I just wanted a quicker guy in there. And with Aminu you get some more options, so... Parsons didn't have a great night but you know it happens. You;re not going to get 30 points every night. You know sometimes your teammates gotta pick you up."

Also

To McMahon: "I didn't bench him, I just substituted for him. You're very sensitive about Parsons lately. I substituted for Parsons, big difference. (laughs)"

CGM · 03-18-2015, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Hey, at least Eddie Murphy's Buckwheat had some uniformity to his hair - Payton's looks like he slept on one side and never bothered to even it out when he woke up.

...so then, there's this....

Bryan_Wilson · 03-18-2015, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Agreed. Last thing you want to do is throw Parsons out of his rhythm this late in the season when the team needs him to be at his best.

^This is exactly how I feel. But I guess RC has shorter patience at the 1 and 3 since we have depth there. Also how many long jumpers did monta throw up there in last 5-6mins??? 5? 6? Whole team fell in love with jumper after the hot first half but monta seems to do this all the freaking time now. Prolly wouldn't have mattered if Parsons was on floor since I doubt he'd even touch the ball in "monta time". Dirk had hot hand and I recall him hitting a jumper keeping it at a 5 point lead I believe and maybe had 1 other shot. Monta's insistence to shoot everything late regardless of who is hot is wearing on me the way harris 2 for 1 pull ups do.

Last year he was over 5fta a game. This year it's under 4. Yet he is shooting more fga per game this year than last as well. He gets criminally disrespected in terms of drawing contact so over 1 less per game I feel is actually a lot more than it seems since it rarely seems like he is in attack mode like last year going to the rim relentlessly. I could be wrong as I havent looked up numbers on drives to rim but it feels like he is doing it MUCH less, or at least much less in last 2-3 months.

Windmill360 · 03-18-2015, 10:52 PM

Learning experience. Good thing we came out on the right side of this.

BGMaverick9 · 03-18-2015, 11:45 PM

Quote Board:

http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2015/03/...lando-game-69/

Underdog · 03-19-2015, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Quote Board:

http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2015/03/...lando-game-69/

Well, that explains why Aminu was playing down the stretch instead of Parsons -- basically, speed & rebounding.

spreedom · 03-19-2015, 01:30 AM

TBH I don't think we win this game without Aminu in grabbing clutch rebounds or taking that charge in the 4th. It was like riding the hot hand defensively and I think more coaches should do it. Kerr is already great at identifying that player.

Sportstudi · 03-19-2015, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Time to fix our FT shooting for the playoffs

Despite a few too many TO Rondo looked again really good today.

Time for Mark to buy Holger a freaking apartment in Dallas

I wrote that already in another thread but like against OKC Rick pulled Dirk out for defensive purposes and replaced him with Jefferson. I know, Dirk was never a stellar defender, but average to above average during his prime. Sure, these times are gone and he can't move that well anymore. But he's still our best FT-shooter.

Rondo is horrible in that regard, but you need him for his defense. Jefferson? 64% isn't good either. Tyson with 74% is actually good for a C and we need his defense as well. Both Parsons and Ellis are in the mid 70's as well. Nothing outstanding for their positions (especially a SG could be higher than 76%), but I take it as we also need their offense come a fastbreak. What I think is that maybe Rick should simply take the risk sometimes and let Dirk on the floor. When you have the other players bricking their FT's you have to worry come playoff-time. We need our best FT-shooters out there, fact. And we can't afford of burning timeouts again and again to sub in Dirk. There were some games in the past we lost by 1 point or so because FT's were bricked and Rick had no timeouts left before that to sub in Dirk again.

Twenty4sevenn · 03-19-2015, 07:29 AM

4th quarter Monta ball is getting really old. Even with him ice cold and our lead dwindling, he's still out there hoisting 22 footers with a hand in his face. It doesn't make any sense to me to throw our whole offense outta the window for Monta hero ball late in the game.

Melonhead · 03-19-2015, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn

4th quarter Monta ball is getting really old. Even with him ice cold and our lead dwindling, he's still out there hoisting 22 footers with a hand in his face. It doesn't make any sense to me to throw our whole offense outta the window for Monta hero ball late in the game.

Because it has worked for him in the past games, he feels he should always do it.

Murphy3 · 03-19-2015, 10:07 AM

I know I shouldn't speak to soon, but if Dirk continues on his nice run, he'll basically be right where everyone wanted him to be as far as numbers go.

No, I didn't want him to be at 46% shooting, but if he's at:
47%
38%
89%
If he can get to those numbers by the end of the year, I think we're all pretty ok with that.

bunkmoreland · 03-19-2015, 10:28 AM

Agree about frustration with Monta driving less and jacking up jumpers more. It's true he doesn't get a lot of respect from the officials when he does drive. I think maybe he needs to put in some hours practicing driving to the rim, flailing his arms, and yelling out. And I'm only half joking.

bilease · 03-19-2015, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunkmoreland

Agree about frustration with Monta driving less and jacking up jumpers more. It's true he doesn't get a lot of respect from the officials when he does drive. I think maybe he needs to put in some hours practicing driving to the rim, flailing his arms, and yelling out. And I'm only half joking.

Maybe he can workout with Harden during the offseason, he would probably get like 20freethrows per game playing like that flopper. Not what I want though, I couldnt even root for such a poor player. I just hope Ellis will start getting the respect he deserves and the correct foul calls, just dont want to see him flop for it. He shouldnt have to do that.

Thebo · 03-19-2015, 11:13 AM

Do any of you bashing on Ellis' driving think about that perhaps he's avoiding it because he might opt out? Much like Rondo has done most of the season.

Besides, I'd wait until playoffs to be sure how much he is avoiding the drives since I'd rather have healthy Ellis driving to the basket in playoffs than Ellis doing his drives in regular season and be too banged up for when it counts the most. Unless of course you think that current team would do very well with Ellis sitting on the bench.

I agree that Ellis to the Circus iso plays are rather old, especially when he is not driving, but that's completely on the coach.

And if anything, benching, or substituting, Parsons for Aminu should send clear message to Parsons to work on his defense. He is still young and should not relax on his weaknesses. Although we have here some who think that Parsons' defensive skills are better than just his big size for his position.

spreedom · 03-19-2015, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

Do any of you bashing on Ellis' driving think about that perhaps he's avoiding it because he might opt out? Much like Rondo has done most of the season.

Besides, I'd wait until playoffs to be sure how much he is avoiding the drives since I'd rather have healthy Ellis driving to the basket in playoffs than Ellis doing his drives in regular season and be too banged up for when it counts the most. Unless of course you think that current team would do very well with Ellis sitting on the bench.

I agree that Ellis to the Circus iso plays are rather old, especially when he is not driving, but that's completely on the coach.

And if anything, benching, or substituting, Parsons for Aminu should send clear message to Parsons to work on his defense. He is still young and should not relax on his weaknesses. Although we have here some who think that Parsons' defensive skills are better than just his big size for his position.

I think Ellis is shying away from drives late in games because he isn't getting calls early. Maybe he isn't getting fouled, and maybe he is, but either way he isn't getting a very high FTs:drive ratio. I don't blame him for going away from the drive if he thinks he should be getting calls that he isn't getting, but he seems to have fallen in love with the pull-up 21-footer in 4th quarters this season.

And I think Rondo is avoiding drives to the basket (he is driving and kicking as often as he usually does, I think..?) because he's still a miserable FT shooter. If he re-signs, I really expect that he and the coaching staff need to put in a lot of time working on his FT mechanics, or at least getting him to shoot a few hundred a day to get a rhythm. If Rondo could play at his current level, as well as being a 60%+ FT shooter and a 35% 3PT shooter, he could get back into that elite PG discussion. I still think he's much better than any free agent/trade targets that we can reasonably expect to see on the market this summer, though.

Murphy3 · 03-19-2015, 11:58 AM

We used to have the same conversations about Dirk on this forum. Dirk was incredibly efficient when he drove to the rim and everyone wanted him to attack more. But, it was probably frustrating to him.. didn't seem like he got a lot of calls. He'd end up settling for long jumpers. This is before he was the most deadly weapon in the game from mid range. With that said, there's a huge difference between Ellis settling for jumpers and Dirk in his very long prime settling for jumpers... huge.

Underdog · 03-19-2015, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

We used to have the same conversations about Dirk on this forum. Dirk was incredibly efficient when he drove to the rim and everyone wanted him to attack more. But, it was probably frustrating to him.. didn't seem like he got a lot of calls. He'd end up settling for long jumpers. This is before he was the most deadly weapon in the game from mid range. With that said, there's a huge difference between Ellis settling for jumpers and Dirk in his very long prime settling for jumpers... huge.

Yeah, the lack of respect Ellis gets from the refs when driving to the basket totally reminds me of the way they used to treat Dirk... And I'm not really sure why that is. I keep hearing people say it's a lack of contact, but I see Ellis drawing plenty of contact -- often ending up on the floor.

Is it a bias against Dallas players, maybe some leftover hostility toward Cuban's ref-bashing days? Or am I just being an overly-paranoid fan?

Thebo · 03-19-2015, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I think Ellis is shying away from drives late in games because he isn't getting calls early. Maybe he isn't getting fouled, and maybe he is, but either way he isn't getting a very high FTs:drive ratio. I don't blame him for going away from the drive if he thinks he should be getting calls that he isn't getting, but he seems to have fallen in love with the pull-up 21-footer in 4th quarters this season.

I prefer the theory about trying to not get injured over it since it seems to be a rather popular one that players think about their contract situation. Plus, I firmly believe that Dallas would pay Ellis this summer more than next summer, even with the cap raise. But I feel that coaching staff should have done something more about having some other plays/players/options in late game situations than Monta iso. Of course this team has had a lot to adjust to but thinking of next season Mavs should have other go-to options also available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

And I think Rondo is avoiding drives to the basket (he is driving and kicking as often as he usually does, I think..?) because he's still a miserable FT shooter. If he re-signs, I really expect that he and the coaching staff need to put in a lot of time working on his FT mechanics, or at least getting him to shoot a few hundred a day to get a rhythm. If Rondo could play at his current level, as well as being a 60%+ FT shooter and a 35% 3PT shooter, he could get back into that elite PG discussion. I still think he's much better than any free agent/trade targets that we can reasonably expect to see on the market this summer, though.

I believe that this is affecting Rondo's tendencies also and have said it in the past. While I think getting Rondo over 60% FT would be an easy task, I'm not convinced anymore as much as I was before about 3PT. But I still believe that Mavs are the only team that could sell him about developing a consistent outside shot.

In terms of this summer Mavs' best bet is still to resign all starters. I actually have no idea what to do about Aminu since Rick has had a lot of problems trying to use Parsons and Aminu when both are healthy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

We used to have the same conversations about Dirk on this forum. Dirk was incredibly efficient when he drove to the rim and everyone wanted him to attack more. But, it was probably frustrating to him.. didn't seem like he got a lot of calls. He'd end up settling for long jumpers. This is before he was the most deadly weapon in the game from mid range. With that said, there's a huge difference between Ellis settling for jumpers and Dirk in his very long prime settling for jumpers... huge.

To me it has looked like Dirk drives more than past season. At least tries to. You could see how he shied away from it against Spurs and I thought that was one of the reasons for losing the series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, the lack of respect Ellis gets from the refs when driving to the basket totally reminds me of the way they used to treat Dirk... And I'm not really sure why that is. I keep hearing people say it's a lack of contact, but I see Ellis drawing plenty of contact -- often ending up on the floor.

It's actually amazing how efficient Ellis is in his contact layups. Think about how many and ones he would get... Perhaps once he starts missing those layups they start calling the fouls. Referees may just figure that since it went in there wasn't any foul play.

Fragism · 03-20-2015, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

And if anything, benching, or substituting, Parsons for Aminu should send clear message to Parsons to work on his defense. He is still young and should not relax on his weaknesses. Although we have here some who think that Parsons' defensive skills are better than just his big size for his position.

Parsons is one of the better defenders on this team.

bilease · 03-20-2015, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragism

Parsons is one of the better defenders on this team.

Is he really? Hes far from being a liability on defense but hes not more than an average defender imo. Would be nice to see him working on his defense and rebounding, he looks pretty good on offense

Sportstudi · 03-20-2015, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, the lack of respect Ellis gets from the refs when driving to the basket totally reminds me of the way they used to treat Dirk... And I'm not really sure why that is. I keep hearing people say it's a lack of contact, but I see Ellis drawing plenty of contact -- often ending up on the floor.

Is it a bias against Dallas players, maybe some leftover hostility toward Cuban's ref-bashing days? Or am I just being an overly-paranoid fan?

Maybe Ellis should just snap his head backwards precautionarily on his drives. Works for Harden on basically every single attempt...

MFFL · 03-20-2015, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

We used to have the same conversations about Dirk on this forum. Dirk was incredibly efficient when he drove to the rim and everyone wanted him to attack more. But, it was probably frustrating to him.. didn't seem like he got a lot of calls.

The 2006 Miami series was the clincher for me. Dirk would get fouled HARD multiple times per game and get no calls. But I could have lived with that if not for the Wade treatment on the other side - you couldn't even touch the man without a foul.

MFFL · 03-20-2015, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstudi

Maybe Ellis should just snap his head backwards precautionarily on his drives. Works for Harden on basically every single attempt...

Cuban said Ellis is not going to play that game. And unfortunately the way the game is evolving, every player is going to play up the contact in a very short time. Basketball will become as unwatchable (to me) as soccer

bunkmoreland · 03-20-2015, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilease

Is he really? Hes far from being a liability on defense but hes not more than an average defender imo. Would be nice to see him working on his defense and rebounding, he looks pretty good on offense

Unfortunately, it may be the case that Parsons is both "not more than an average defender" AND "one of the better defenders on this team".

I think Parsons' defense is good enough that I was surprised by Rick benching him in the game. But then, Aminu did contribute a lot defensively at the end