GDT: Mavs vs Hawks January 29th - 7:30 CST/8:30 EST - Page 8 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

chumdawg · 01-31-2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

That had nothing to do with why we lost.

If so, what he is asking is you is if it had anything to do, that other time, with why we won.

fluid.forty.one · 01-31-2011, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If so, what he is asking is you is if it had anything to do, that other time, with why we won.

That's the point. We didn't win. Devin Harris was the reason we got past the spurs (on the way to the finals) not Jason Terry.

I'm talking strictly from the PG position, btw...

dude1394 · 01-31-2011, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

That had nothing to do with why we lost.

Then obviously he had nothing to do with getting to the finals either.

And for what it is worth..I think both his and devins utter incompetance at the point guard position was DIRECTLY related to us getting beat. How many times did you see dirk have to come out almost to the 3 point line to get the ball. It was atrocious pg play.

dude1394 · 01-31-2011, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

That's the point. We didn't win. Devin Harris was the reason we got past the spurs (on the way to the finals) not Jason Terry.

I'm talking strictly from the PG position, btw...

I'm sort of confused about the point you are making...(reading comprehension probably).

Devin was thrown in as a shooting guard on the way to the finals, very seldom did I see him playing much point.

LonghornDub · 01-31-2011, 12:51 AM

Terry was a pretty big part of why we lost to the Warriors. But so was everyone, except Howard (oddly). Avery most of all.

As for Terry in the '06 run at PG, it clearly worked to an extent. We got that far. But would it work now? I don't know. Maybe if we give him those same minutes at PG consistently, he'd perform well. But he wouldn't get to play much PG with Dirk now, which is probably the primary thing that made him a good PG in '06 anyway.

I really think it's a moot point though, because JJB is more than serviceable at the backup PG, as long as he isn't shooting 19% from deep.

Underdog · 01-31-2011, 12:51 AM

Barea is a better "true PG" than JET (and that's not saying much). Assists are nice, but a lot of Terry's come from perimeter ball movement, not him taking the ball up the court and creating opportunities for his teammates like Kidd does. Essentially, he really doesn't rack up dishes any differently than Dirk - at least Barea can dive and dish (whenever he actually DECIDES to dish - don't get it twisted, I don't think Barea is a good PG either...)

Now that we have Peja as a warm body at the 3, I'd love to see this team make a strong push for someone like Billups or Harris to replace Butler's overall productivity (assuming Cuban doesn't have some under-the-table-cream-in-my-pants fantasy deal with Deron Williams to come here in 2012)... I think both Barea and Terry suck at backing up our 37-year-old future Hall of Famer and we're probably not going to make a deep playoff run unless we either find a better backup/future starting PG, or if Kidd can play 38+ minutes after the 82 game season is over (and none of you have smoked enough weed tonight to believe that is possible... have you?)

LonghornDub · 01-31-2011, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Barea is a better "true PG" than JET (and that's not saying much). Assists are nice, but a lot of Terry's come from perimeter ball movement, not him taking the ball up the court and creating opportunities for his teammates like Kidd does. Essentially, he really doesn't rack up dishes any differently than Dirk - at least Barea can dive and dish (whenever he actually DECIDES to dish - don't get it twisted, I don't think Barea is a good PG either...)

Now that we have Peja as a warm body at the 3, I'd love to see this team make a strong push for someone like Billups or Harris to replace Butler's overall productivity (assuming Cuban doesn't have some under-the-table-cream-in-my-pants fantasy deal with Deron Williams to come here in 2012)... I think both Barea and Terry suck at backing up our 37-year-old future Hall of Famer and we're probably not going to make a deep playoff run unless we either find a better backup/future starting PG, or if Kidd can play 38+ minutes after the 82 game season is over (and none of you have smoked enough weed tonight to believe that is possible... have you?)

This team would be sick nasty with Roddy and Harris. I wonder if there's any chance of getting him back here. Probably not.

dude1394 · 01-31-2011, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Terry was a pretty big part of why we lost to the Warriors. But so was everyone, except Howard (oddly). Avery most of all.

As for Terry in the '06 run at PG, it clearly worked to an extent. We got that far. But would it work now? I don't know. Maybe if we give him those same minutes at PG consistently, he'd perform well. But he wouldn't get to play much PG with Dirk now, which is probably the primary thing that made him a good PG in '06 anyway.

I really think it's a moot point though, because JJB is more than serviceable at the backup PG, as long as he isn't shooting 19% from deep.

I do not recall anyone pressuring jet on the perimeter until the GSW series.. After that, everyone did and he lost his starting spot because of it the next year.

Underdog · 01-31-2011, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

That's the point. We didn't win. Devin Harris was the reason we got past the spurs (on the way to the finals) not Jason Terry.

You can't take away Terry's clutch fadeaway jumper over Duncan in Game 3. That was awesome.

But your point still stands - Devin was definitely a bigger reason that we got past the Spurs than Terry (ask Tony Parker, he'll tell you the same...)

BGMaverick9 · 01-31-2011, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Barea is a better "true PG" than JET (and that's not saying much). Assists are nice, but a lot of Terry's come from perimeter ball movement, not him taking the ball up the court and creating opportunities for his teammates like Kidd does. Essentially, he really doesn't rack up dishes any differently than Dirk - at least Barea can dive and dish (whenever he actually DECIDES to dish - don't get it twisted, I don't think Barea is a good PG either...)

Now that we have Peja as a warm body at the 3, I'd love to see this team make a strong push for someone like Billups or Harris to replace Butler's overall productivity (assuming Cuban doesn't have some under-the-table-cream-in-my-pants fantasy deal with Deron Williams to come here in 2012)... I think both Barea and Terry suck at backing up our 37-year-old future Hall of Famer and we're probably not going to make a deep playoff run unless we either find a better backup/future starting PG, or if Kidd can play 38+ minutes after the 82 game season is over (and none of you have smoked enough weed tonight to believe that is possible... have you?)

I'm still a fan of the backup point guard the Mavericks are going to see tomorrow night.

Underdog · 01-31-2011, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This team would be sick nasty with Roddy and Harris. I wonder if there's any chance of getting him back here. Probably not.

Seems like that ship sailed when Prokhorov told Denver to go совокупляться themselves...

fluid.forty.one · 01-31-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm sort of confused about the point you are making...(reading comprehension probably).

Devin was thrown in as a shooting guard on the way to the finals, very seldom did I see him playing much point.

Unless my memory is completely blown (and that's completely possible) I remember Harris not only defending Parker, but being defended by Parker. I also know that, especially back then, Harris was only effective with the ball in his hands... and he was effective... So they may have called Terry the 1, but Harris sure acted like one.

Underdog · 01-31-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I'm still a fan of the backup point guard the Mavericks are going to see tomorrow night.

Add Hinrich to the list too...

fluid.forty.one · 01-31-2011, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I'm still a fan of the backup point guard the Mavericks are going to see tomorrow night.

Kirk would be great.

dude1394 · 01-31-2011, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Unless my memory is completely blown (and that's completely possible) I remember Harris not only defending Parker, but being defended by Parker. I also know that, especially back then, Harris was only effective with the ball in his hands... and he was effective... So they may have called Terry the 1, but Harris sure acted like one.

Defensively sure...But jkiddo defends shooting guards as well. I believe we are talking offensively here and devin led a lot of one-man-fast-breaks (as he still does)...but I don't recall him running the point that much.

CadBane · 01-31-2011, 01:06 AM

For the record, I don't think much of Harris as a PG. He's great at penetration, but he's not much of an actual PG. Fairly poor vision and mediocre passer. Not very efficient either.

CadBane · 01-31-2011, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Kirk would be great.

Love Kirk. He can guard 1-3 really well too (shut down Pierce and Wade).

BGMaverick9 · 01-31-2011, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Love Kirk. He can guard 1-3 really well too (shut down Pierce and Wade).

I feel more comfortable with him guarding either the 1 or 2 opposed to a 3 but he has something about him that really does stick against Wade...it's just one of those things where a guy has someone's number.

The Jet angle that Skin mentioned is pretty much dead now so you'd have to throw Butler, a future first and money for him.

LonghornDub · 01-31-2011, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

For the record, I don't think much of Harris as a PG. He's great at penetration, but he's not much of an actual PG. Fairly poor vision and mediocre passer. Not very efficient either.

Yeah, he doesn't elite PG skills. Still, I think he'd be a fantastic addition to the current roster.

Kirk would be a great one too. That seems more reasonable anyway.

BGMaverick9 · 01-31-2011, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Yeah, he doesn't elite PG skills. Still, I think he'd be a fantastic addition to the current roster.

Kirk would be a great one too. That seems more reasonable anyway.

He's back from the elbow injury (hyper-extension). They'll save money by getting Butler, the first and money are icing on the cake. Hinrich was a nice stop-gap in case Gilbert did something crazy and Wall wasn't ready to take control of the point.

Underdog · 01-31-2011, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

For the record, I don't think much of Harris as a PG. He's great at penetration, but he's not much of an actual PG. Fairly poor vision and mediocre passer. Not very efficient either.

Valid points.

Now imagine Carlisle's 3-guard lineup with Kidd/Roddy/Harris and Barea buried at the end of the Mavs (or someone else's) bench.

(wipe the drool off your lip...)

mavs777 · 01-31-2011, 01:30 AM

Hinrich> Harris

Especially when you think what both would be worth it has to be a no brainer, NJ would ask for a lot more for Harris

CadBane · 01-31-2011, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Valid points.

Now imagine Carlisle's 3-guard lineup with Kidd/Roddy/Harris and Barea buried at the end of the Mavs (or someone else's) bench.

(wipe the drool off your lip...)

That lineup would actually work at times since Kidd can guard some 3s, and obviously Devin can guard 1s and Roddy some 2s. Definitely prefer that 3 guard lineup to one with JJB involved.

mavs777 · 01-31-2011, 01:34 AM

The thing to love about Hinrich is he knows his role and he never tries stupid stuff he isn't capable of, a team like the Mavs who want to run when given the chance but mainly play in the half court he is a great fit, Harris not so much

Underdog · 01-31-2011, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

That lineup would actually work at times since Kidd can guard some 3s, and obviously Devin can guard 1s and Roddy some 2s. Definitely prefer that 3 guard lineup to one with JJB involved.

I don't think Rick ever employed the 3-guard lineup as a defensive option, but I get your point.

We'd be sick on offense though, you can't deny that - does Kidd pass to Roddy cutting up the lane or Harris, should he throw the oop to Chandler or Roddy... maybe he just lets Dirk work his magic? It's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma wrapped in crispy bacon!

mavs777 · 01-31-2011, 01:47 AM

I think Harris stay in NJ has proved he should never be the top option, look at his fg%

Underdog · 01-31-2011, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

I think Harris stay in NJ has proved he should never be the top option, look at his fg%

Well, he'd be the second option at PG on the Mavs right now...

But it doesn't matter anyway because I don't see any way we can get him without helping to facilitate a Melo-to-Jersey trade (which ain't happening, so the fantasy is moot...)

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-31-2011, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This team would be sick nasty with Roddy and Harris. I wonder if there's any chance of getting him back here. Probably not.

Ugh...people need to stop bringing that up! That would be incredible, and my name wouldn't look so silly.