Keith Van Horn to Dallas :-\

[kg_veteran]

DA gives them something that they really have needed and were lacking

About the only thing he gives them is someone who's good at falling down to the ground when someone makes contact with them.

Armstrong works really hard on defense and is a pretty decent passer, but he is absolutely painful to watch. It is 4 on 5 with him out there EVERY TIME. Anecdotally, I remember him being a pretty decent shooter at one point in his career, but he is just horrific here in Dallas. I don't think Armstrong could knock down 3 18-footers in a row if no one else was in the gym.

PAINFUL.

I'm all for Nellie teaching the young fella a lesson or whatever, but every time I see Darrell Armstrong, I have flashbacks to Tony Delk. And Travis Best. Those two guys stole minutes from Marquis early last season, and this season Armstrong is stealing time from Harris. Harris is immensely talented, and he's been playing really well. Thank goodness, however, Nellie made good on his promise the other night. Instead of watching Harris driving, shooting, slashing and attacking, I got to watch Armstrong fall on the ground. A bunch.

Thanks, Nellie.

[grndmstr_c]

I have to differ to some extent, KG. His shot is sad - no idea why because while he was never a great shooter I also remember him at least being competent at one point. However, IMO he's a good enough passer, and is aggresive enough with the ball that he does manage to put some pressure on opposing defenses. The charge drawing attempts grate on me when he's: 1) not getting the calls, and 2) when he gets carried away trying it in the back-court. But I like his energy on defense, and often feel like I see the effort from the rest of the guys pick up in response to what he's doing.

As for what Nellie did with Devin, I'm on record as saying I don't have a problem with it, though I do hope it's a well he doesn't draw from too often. More often than not I'd wager the rookie's development will best be served by PT.

[Drbio]

I cannot believe someone is actually arguing the merits of DA.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I have to differ to some extent, KG. His shot is sad - no idea why because while he was never a great shooter I also remember him at least being competent at one point. However, IMO he's a good enough passer, and is aggresive enough with the ball that he does manage to put some pressure on opposing defenses. The charge drawing attempts grate on me when he's: 1) not getting the calls, and 2) when he gets carried away trying it in the back-court. But I like his energy on defense, and often feel like I see the effort from the rest of the guys pick up in response to what he's doing.

As for what Nellie did with Devin, I'm on record as saying I don't have a problem with it, though I do hope it's a well he doesn't draw from too often. More often than not I'd wager the rookie's development will best be served by PT.

Has DA's shot always been that ugly? I use to follow the Magic long ago when Penny was still there and I don't never recall his shot looking that ugly. I don't see how he even makes shots.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally posted by: Drbio
I cannot believe someone is actually arguing the merits of DA.

Neither can I.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[V2M]

I agree with KG on this. DA is a nice insurance to have in case Terry and/or Harris get hurt. He's also an experienced campaigner who could teach the youngsters some tricks of the trade. But for him to take precious minutes away from a promising young rookie is just not right. Harris was developing nicely with his ever-improving shot and almost unstoppable drives on offense, and his defense is probably top 3 on this team. Sitting him down for a whole game 'cuz he missed one play is silly.

[bernardos70]

You can knock DA for having a horrible shot, but he is aware of that and hardly ever shoots. He's a pass first, pass second, and if the shot clock is running down shoot it third.

[GermanBlitzkrieg]

If Nellie is telling the truth, Harris keeps making the same mistake over and over. He was sending a very clear message. DA won't play much longer. But he's helped us. Harris may very well be a super star stud, for years to come.

I think Nellie loves the kid. But he expects a lot from him. We'll see how tonight goes.

[EricaLubarsky]

Thats my problem with DA. He needs to take the ball all the way to the hole more often so defenders actually believe that he might actually score. That will open up the floor a little more. Also, DA has a horrible habit of never wanting a shot. Never. And when the shot clock is at 2 or 3 he needs to take it instead of making an awkward pass that puts pressure on another player to get a quick shot up

[Drbio]

**Bump**


I really enjoyed reading through this again and seeing who didn't havea clue about the genius of the trade.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: Drbio
**Bump**


I really enjoyed reading through this again and seeing who didn't havea clue about the genius of the trade.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Hell, Doc, if you wouldn't waste your time reading things like this, you could get a 4th.

[Drbio]

LOL!

[Big Boy Laroux]

hey, i was against the trade in general cause it didn't make any sense at the time. but i like van horn. and i will admit i've liked what i've seen because he's done the complete opposite of what he's been doing for years. he is actually VERY good at getting to the hole. not sure why he's been labeled as a jump-shooter for so many years, because he could score twenty on drives alone.

[Drbio]

Let me be a bit professorial for a moment (Hey....I earned it)

Basketball trades are like geological effects. You cannot detect changes in geology over short time periods...the resolution is just not there. The same is true in basketball trades. That the short term period when the trade went down seemed to be an odd time to make the trade (due to injuries, etc), but you simply cannot detect the effect of the trade during that time period. Those who tried to do so simply failed because, like geology (and biological competitive studies), the resolution was too fine. There was a woe-is-me short-term mentality back then by many people...not just on this board but in the Dallas Mavericks loving community. It was a skewed short-sighted short term fault.

Thankfully, now that the period is extending out a bit...everyone is beginning to see the greatness of the trade. KVH is perhaps the most talented backup PF in the NBA. Having him back up Dirk is an incredible upgrade over Hendu and Booth, esp since Hendu came back. Having KVH and Dirk play side by side with Bradley as the center has been awesome. As long as Dirk doesn't get pushed into the center position, this trade is of the kind that championship teams look back to and say.....look there.....right on that date.....that was where we locked up the title. Maybe the Mavs don't win it all....who knows...but they can still look back and say....it was on that date that we gave our team an incredible upgrade and gave us a chance to win it all. The day Nellie resigned was another of those days but that is another story.

Bottom line.....changes in rocks and jocks require time to see adaptive benefit. Maybe that Darwin guy was on to something. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[MavKikiNYC]

If anybody wants to look at the trade as KVH for Booth/Nellie, I think there will be much broader consensus.

[Big Boy Laroux]

damn, you sold me on that. KVH for booth was obviously a steal talent-wise. If avery had been the coach at the time, i would have praised this trade up and down. but nellie was the coach, and i was afraid. very afraid.

but KVH for Booth/Nellie? best deal in mavs history. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Captain Disaster]

Let's see how KVH does against the good teams before we gloat. If he performs like he did last night, we may have a shot this year, especially when Damp & Stack return.

[Murphy3]

You're right CD. Let's wait and see. I do believe that this is a good trade that hinges on the use of the roster... And it still does even with Avery as the coach. However, I'm much more comfortable with AJ's use of the roster compared to what I had come to expect from Nellie.

[capitalcity]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
You're right CD. Let's wait and see. I do believe that this is a good trade that hinges on the use of the roster... And it still does even with Avery as the coach. However, I'm much more comfortable with AJ's use of the roster compared to what I had come to expect from Nellie.

I stopped bitching about the trade cause Nellie's out - Murph is right lets see what Avery can make outta this Mavs team.

In light of recent events, the disruption of team chemistry may not be as valid a reason to hate the trade as it was initially.

[dude1394]

Due to timing a case could be made that it DID disrupt team chemistry and that the players also had worries about what would happen with Nellie's rotations.. I don't know that but there would be evidence as they played poorly after it. Even though I think most of the players could recognize and upgrade when they saw it.

[irontoad]

Amused with the great number of KVH nicknames on this site, I thought I'd compile a list of the ones used, just for the hell of it...

Keith Van Booth (KVB)
Killer
Keith Van Badass
Basketball Jesus
Keith Van Kickass
Keith Van Bastard

any I've missed?

[EricaLubarsky]

It's only been a couple of games, but there are at least 2-3 posters that are calling for Larry Harris to step down on the Milwaukee boards.

[capitalcity]

Originally posted by: irontoad
Amused with the great number of KVH nicknames on this site, I thought I'd compile a list of the ones used, just for the hell of it...

Keith Van Booth (KVB)
Killer
Keith Van Badass
Basketball Jesus
Keith Van Kickass
Keith Van Bastard

any I've missed?

Kracker Von Badass

[grndmstr_c]

Originally posted by: irontoad
Amused with the great number of KVH nicknames on this site, I thought I'd compile a list of the ones used, just for the hell of it...

Keith Van Booth (KVB)
Killer
Keith Van Badass
Basketball Jesus
Keith Van Kickass
Keith Van Bastard

any I've missed?

Reed Rothchild...the Diggler's got his sidekick.

[V2M]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
It's only been a couple of games, but there are at least 2-3 posters that are calling for Larry Harris to step down on the Milwaukee boards.

Ignorant posters. Why shouldn't a son help his dad win a title? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

More seriously though, I think that was the best move they could make to create enough room for an off-season signing of Redd.

[foglemann]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

Reed Rothchild...the Diggler's got his sidekick.

grnd_c that is a great one. Boogie nights is an awsome flick!!

Who is going to be Rollergirl on the team?

[madape]

Originally posted by: foglemann

grnd_c that is a great one. Boogie nights is an awsome flick!!

Who is going to be Rollergirl on the team?

I know who Cuban would be. I can just see him rolling into Nellie's office and saying:

"I enjoy simple pleasures like butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth. That's me -- call me crazy, call me a pervert, but this is something I enjoy. One other small thing I want to do in this life is make a dollar and a cent in this business -- I'm not trying to hurt you. I'm trying to help you stay one step ahead of the game"

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: madape

I know who Cuban would be. I can just see him rolling into Nellie's office and saying:

"I enjoy simple pleasures like butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth. That's me -- call me crazy, call me a pervert, but this is something I enjoy. One other small thing I want to do in this life is make a dollar and a cent in this business -- I'm not trying to hurt you. I'm trying to help you stay one step ahead of the game"

KVH's nickname should be Chest Rockwell.

[Ninkobei]

How about Keith? thats a unique and uncommon name..and it has lower case letters!

[Bayliss]

Knee highs?

[cheesestar]

well, i thnk keith has been doing pretty well. i thought he'd be a streaky shooter will lousy d but hes proven me wrong.

im not sure if the questions been answered in the thread (and going through 328764875 pages doesnt seem like a good idea to me [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]) but how are we going to resign him? doesnt he have a huge contract?

[Poindexter Einstein]

Originally posted by: V2M

More seriously though, I think that was the best move they could make to create enough room for an off-season signing of Redd.

They didnt need cap room to re-sign Redd. Perhaps they needed "budget room" that induced them to give away KVH, which falls back in the face of the owners, not the GM.