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Old 11-11-2009, 11:20 AM   #1
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Default DUST Chip Countdown

Dampier needs 2100 minutes over 70 games this season in order to gaurantee his contract. As long as he stays below 2100 minutes over 70 the Mavericks (or any team he is traded to) will hold the option to decline his option for next season, thus making him an expiring contract (aka the Dust Chip).

We'll use this thread to monitor his minutes as the season progresses.

Dampier would need to average 30 minutes a game for 70 games to hit the 2100 mark. He has only played more than 2100 minutes twice in his career (2,656 minutes in 97-98 and 2405 minutes in 04-05 which was his last contract year with GS.) although his career avg. mpg is 25.2

Dampier has played all 82 games in a season three times in his career (97-98, 02-03, 05-06). Dampier played in 80 games for the Mavericks last season. His career avg. of games played per season is 67.

So far this season Dampier is averaging 29.1 mpg over 7 games with total minutes played at 204.

I will update the numbers after each Mavs game.

DUST CHIP COUNTDOWN
Wednesday November 11, 2009

Games Played:7
Games Left: 75
Minutes Played: 204
Minutes Left: 1896
Dampier's avg. mpg over best 70 games, through 7 games: 29.1 mpg
Dampier's required avg. mpg over best 70 games to gaurantee contract: 30
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:31 AM   #2
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great idea, he is playing very good basketball right now.

Fish @ dallasbasketball.com even mentioned that whoever (or us) should only
sign Damp to a series of 1 year contracts.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:33 AM   #3
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Yeah, or we should just see if he wants to just hang out and play. Just do it for the love of the game, and not even get paid.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:55 AM   #4
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It's 2100 minutes in the 70 games in which he plays the most minutes.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:07 PM   #5
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It's 2100 minutes in the 70 games in which he plays the most minutes.
I've never read that. So basically he needs to play well enough in 70 games to average 30 minutes. That's not totally outside of the realm of possibility.

I wonder if this could influence RC's substitution patterns. Damp’s agent would scream bloody murder but it would be nearly impossible to prove that it was intentional.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:16 PM   #6
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I've never read that. So basically he needs to play well enough in 70 games to average 30 minutes. That's not totally outside of the realm of possibility.

I wonder if this could influence RC's substitution patterns. Damp’s agent would scream bloody murder but it would be nearly impossible to prove that it was intentional.
It's still harder to accomplish than 2100 minutes in all his games.

He's certainly never even come close as a Mav. I would imagine he still won't come real close, but his minutes thus far into the season aren't helping.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:24 PM   #7
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Hey if Damp gets the minutes, 15-10 a night, an all star appearance and a championship ring, I'd be glad to pay his option year next season. I think Cuban will always find a way to fill out the top half of the roster. Do I see a Brady Quinn situation...NO, not if you're winning and right now we are.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:43 PM   #8
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Hey if Damp gets the minutes, 15-10 a night, an all star appearance and a championship ring, I'd be glad to pay his option year next season. I think Cuban will always find a way to fill out the top half of the roster. Do I see a Brady Quinn situation...NO, not if you're winning and right now we are.

You think Damp is going to be motivated to produce next year like he is now after winning a ring? haha
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:57 PM   #9
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So, technically, Damp's contract year is over on the 2100th minute of his 70th (or fewer) top games.

Carlisle better hold that 2100st minute out as a carrot til the end of the season. How motivated will he be if he's got 200 minutes left, but only 4 or 5 games? Or how motivated will he be if he gets his fat paycheck and there are 12 games left in the season?
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:06 PM   #10
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I see two potential benefits of keeping Damp's minutes in a range that makes 2100 in 70 achievable...for the time being, at least: 1) major incentive to Damp to keep producing, 2) major incentive for Mark/Donnie to execute a trade for Camby or the like.

And my not-so-bad, worst-case-but-not-really scenario: Damp gets his 2100 in 70, gets the extra year on his contract to kick in, and the Mavs get two straight years of contract Damp.
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:44 PM   #11
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I think the motivation thing is a little overblown. Damp's best season (statistically) for the Mavs was the first year after signing the biggest contract of his life. I'm not saying this current stretch of play doesn't have anything to do with the contract status; it obviously does. But don't discount the changes to the team makeup that are allowing him more freedom in the lane and more time on the court.

Plus, certainly no one expects him to grab double doubles in five out of every six games. If we does that for an extended period of time then I'll admit he's a flat out contract whore.
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:45 PM   #12
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This is stressing me out.
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by grndmstr_c View Post
I see two potential benefits of keeping Damp's minutes in a range that makes 2100 in 70 achievable...for the time being, at least: 1) major incentive to Damp to keep producing, 2) major incentive for Mark/Donnie to execute a trade for Camby or the like.

And my not-so-bad, worst-case-but-not-really scenario: Damp gets his 2100 in 70, gets the extra year on his contract to kick in, and the Mavs get two straight years of contract Damp.


You Sir are a Freakin' GENIUS!

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Old 11-11-2009, 01:47 PM   #14
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Just in case anyone wanted to see the link:

Quote:
Erick Dampier: Signed and traded to Dallas with a 7 year, $73 million contract in August 2004. Contract contains performance bonuses currently listed as "likely." Last season is fully unguaranteed, which becomes full guaranteed if 1) Dampier is selected to play in any three NBA All-Star Games between the 2004-2005 and 2009-2010 seasons, or 2) Dampier plays at least 2,100 minutes in the 70 regular season games in the 2009-2010 season in which he plays his most minutes (and if he plays in less than 70 regular season games in the 2009-2010 season, then he must play at least 2,100 minutes for the entire regular season). Confusing, yes. Useful as a trade chip, totally.
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:51 PM   #15
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This is stressing me out.
I wouldn't worry about it. There's already been two games this season where Damp only played 18 minutes. There's going to be more than twelve of those in the season (especially considering it's unlikely he plays all 82). Once his low minute games starting counting in his 70 games, they're going to drag is minute average down.

I doubt this is even much of a consideration towards the end of the season (and I'm possibly the biggest Damp fan on this board).
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:18 PM   #16
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FWIW, 70/82 isn't much different than 6/7, which means if we're looking to see where Damp's at right now vis a vis the guarantee, we can just look at his average from his six highest minute games. In those, he's at 31 mpg. So as much as it seems like he's been playing, he's only 6 minutes total over the target maximum. It'll be pretty easy to correct for that.

As for the contract year being the driving force behind his productivity, I'm actually in the camp that says that's playing a minimal role, and that the driving factors are playing time, and a better match between him and the guys he's playing with this year than in any other year that he's been with the team.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:27 PM   #17
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He is playing out of his mind, the Mavs were short (Gooden, Thomas, Josh for Fab5) and he just averaged 29mins..

Relax people, he wont make it. He will have plenty of 22-24min games.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:07 PM   #18
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I would just like to say with the recent rash of needless threads that have popped up around here the past couple months...this is a breath of fresh air.

Great thread topic and very well conceived.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:14 PM   #19
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I would just like to say with the recent rash of needless threads that have popped up around here the past couple months...this is a breath of fresh air.

Great thread topic and very well conceived.
I'd like this thread better if it was called "The Official DUST Chip Countdown Appreciation Thread" - can we get a mod to fix that?


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Old 11-11-2009, 03:19 PM   #20
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I don't see any reason for concern here - the only way Damp will achieve 2100/70 this season is if he plays out of his friggin' mind, and that can only be a good thing for the Mavericks (not to mention Damp's trade value...)
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:05 PM   #21
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Let me see if I understand this.

If we trade him and he doesn't fulfill his numbers can it go like this:

Trade him to team A at deadline for player X.

Team A then drops Damp at the end of the year to save the $.

We sign Damp to 1 Year deal?


Or can he be dropped right at the deadline, or what?

I'm not too contract savvy, so I need an explanation, tbh.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:12 PM   #22
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Let me see if I understand this.

If we trade him and he doesn't fulfill his numbers can it go like this:

Trade him to team A at deadline for player X.

Team A then drops Damp at the end of the year to save the $.

We sign Damp to 1 Year deal?


Or can he be dropped right at the deadline, or what?

I'm not too contract savvy, so I need an explanation, tbh.
This season is fully guaranteed. Next year there's an option, 2100 minutes this year, the option becomes fully guaranteed. If he does not achieve those figures, it becomes a team option. The option's deadline is some time next summer, soon after the player movement moratorium is lifted, some time around July 1-15. The Mavs always have the option of trading him between now and the trade deadline.

Now if the Mavs do trade Damp and he is immediately cut, the team cutting him would be on the docket to pay the guaranteed portion of his contract. After being cut, Damp can rejoin the Mavs after a 30 day period. The team cutting him will not save any money, unless Damp agrees to a buyout. This always depends on the player, buyouts can range from 50-90% of the remaining salary.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:14 PM   #23
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Let me see if I understand this.

If we trade him and he doesn't fulfill his numbers can it go like this:

Trade him to team A at deadline for player X.

Team A then drops Damp at the end of the year to save the $.

We sign Damp to 1 Year deal?


Or can he be dropped right at the deadline, or what?

I'm not too contract savvy, so I need an explanation, tbh.
It's pretty darn unlikely that he's traded this season. He's far more likely to be traded this offseason.

No matter when he's traded, it's very likely he's immediately cut (make that an absolute certainty if he's traded this offseason).

Once he's cut he can be signed by anyone, including us (although we'd have to wait 30 days if all this did happen during this season).
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:18 PM   #24
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The option's deadline is some time next summer, soon after the player movement moratorium is lifted, some time around July 1-15.
Where are you getting the info on this deadline? Keep in mind this is not really an option. It's a non-guaranteed contract. And I believe David Lord has said that it does not have a date at which is becomes guaranteed. So it would remain non-guaranteed until the day that all contracts in the NBA become guaranteed, which is sometime in January I believe.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:26 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jthig32 View Post
Where are you getting the info on this deadline? Keep in mind this is not really an option. It's a non-guaranteed contract. And I believe David Lord has said that it does not have a date at which is becomes guaranteed. So it would remain non-guaranteed until the day that all contracts in the NBA become guaranteed, which is sometime in January I believe.
Well that would be good for the Mavs if there is no deadline, I know Buckner and Stackhouse's had a deadline etched into their contract, same with Gooden. Kind of surprising that Damps does not have some type of deadline in there, sort of does the player a favor by giving him enough time on the open market to find another job.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:30 PM   #26
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So if things go as planned to favor the Mavs, it would go like this:

Damp continues to play well. We hold him past the deadline and for the Championship. This offseason we trade him to the Hawks, Raptors, Clips, whoever. Since he didn't put up the minutes, he gets cut as soon as he's traded. We wait 30 days and resign him to a 1 year contract. Correct?

Also, why would a team that's gonna lose a player that'll be a 2010 FA trade with us that offseason if their player is gonna leave anyway. Wouldn't trading with us not benefit them anymore than the guy just leaving?
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President View Post
So if things go as planned to favor the Mavs, it would go like this:

Damp continues to play well. We hold him past the deadline and for the Championship. This offseason we trade him to the Hawks, Raptors, Clips, whoever. Since he didn't put up the minutes, he gets cut as soon as he's traded. We wait 30 days and resign him to a 1 year contract. Correct?

Also, why would a team that's gonna lose a player that'll be a 2010 FA trade with us that offseason if their player is gonna leave anyway. Wouldn't trading with us not benefit them anymore than the guy just leaving?
GM's, agents, it's all about relationships, developing good ones. It came up in the Marion deal. When Hedo was waffling, Colangelo and Marion's agent sort of had a verbal agreement in place. Then Hedo says I'm coming, that would take up all of Toronto's cap space. This is when Cuban jumped in and said he has the Stack Chip and would love to give Marion that deal, actually he tacked on an extra unguaranteed year to make it look tasty at "5 years 40." Then somehow he worked Hedo into the sign and trade also. But by doing this deal, Colangelo kept good ties with Marion and Marion's agent, just in case he needs a favor down the line. Who knows the other side may want cash, a pick or 2 or a young prospect in return. In addition, Damp does not necessarily have to be dealt for a 2010 FA, it could be a disgruntled star with an existing contract.
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:32 PM   #28
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I'd like to see this team stay in tact all year. a mix up at the deadline with Damp would be a huge adjustment. I say keep him, go for it all, if we fall short, then he's still a huge chip to flip and try to improve in the offseason.
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:36 PM   #29
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No doubt contract stuff is somewhat if an incentive...but I believe it gets a bit overblown.

That being said, perhaps Cuban should approach Erick at Playoff time and extend his contract...with a bonus that doubles his salary each year that the Mavs win the NBA Championship.

Think about it...all Damp would have to do is play for 16 post season wins to double his salary!!! Surely, he could be motivated to do that.

By the way, if Damp and the Mavs win the title this year...I will banish myself from any political talk for the 12 months after the title...this includes the 2010 election period.

So, now how many of you are getting on the Damp bandwagon?
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:48 PM   #30
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Well that would be good for the Mavs if there is no deadline, I know Buckner and Stackhouse's had a deadline etched into their contract, same with Gooden. Kind of surprising that Damps does not have some type of deadline in there, sort of does the player a favor by giving him enough time on the open market to find another job.
Stack and Buckner's deals didn't have conditions that could force their last year to be fully guaranteed, either. Even if he does have a day that forces the decision (although I trust DLord on this) I would expect it to be much later than early July.
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:51 PM   #31
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Good info regarding the 70 game clause.

I'm going to change the games left countdown category to "games left until 12 game countdown" so that we can better measure how close he is from hitting the mark when we get to the last 12 games of the season.

Once we get to that point I'll change it back to countdown the remaining 12 games of the season. At that point he will need to hit the mark each game to remain in contention.

Edit: working on the math here of how the countdown will work. Will report back later with updates.
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:25 PM   #32
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By the way, if Damp and the Mavs win the title this year...I will banish myself from any political talk for the 12 months after the title...this includes the 2010 election period.

So, now how many of you are getting on the Damp bandwagon?
Wow, they are piling on now!

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Old 11-12-2009, 05:23 AM   #33
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A Regarding Damp's contractual guarantee, every source I have tells me there is none at all and no extra contractual deadline where that changes. It's a pure pay-as-you-go deal on a game by game basis, until Jan 10 when all NBA non-guaranteed contracts become guaranteed for the rest of the year. But with a written contract at over $13M as his pay rate, there's no benefit to keeping him for even a part of the season: he'll be waived in the summer and then resign with someone at a much more reasonable number. And iit will happen pronto, because whoever has that $13M contract will want to free up cap room to sign free agents.

B To me, the alarmism over Damp's minutes is silly.

1 He's never played more than 1934 minutes in a season if you count all 82 games. If you only count 70 of them, his highest number ever played in a season in Dallas is even lower.
2 The Mavs aren't suddenly going to start playing him more minutes at an older age, even moreso when it would also be contractually unwise to do so
3 The Mavs control his minutes, and they know the contractual clause and its implications for their future.
4 The Mavs need to keep him fresh for the playoffs even without a clause
5 Damp's smart. He knows the deal. It was part of the negotiations when he signed the deal, this advantageous clause didn't just wander into his contract accidentally.

2100 in 70 is just not going to happen.

C I fully expect that once he is waived in the summer of 2010, he'll sign again with Dallas. He knows the team here, and his role, it's become his home, and the Mavs will probably need a center. Dallas will have as much money to offer as anyone else, presuming no one will offer him over-MLE money. And that's a safe expectation.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:23 AM   #34
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Okay so after going through different formulas I've decided the best thing to do is keep it as simple as possible. What I'm going to do is just keep tabs on Damp's avg. mpg over his best 70 games. Basically, Damp needs to average 30 mpg over 70 games to hit 2100 minutes for the season. After 70 games, he will have 12 games to cancel out his lowest mpg games played and replace them with higher mpg games played. That may or may not make a significant difference down the stretch, so basically he'll need to keep it as close to 30 mpg as possible throughout the season.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:25 AM   #35
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DUST CHIP COUNTDOWN
Thursday November 12, 2009

Games Played:8
Games Left: 74
Minutes Played: 222
Minutes Left: 1878
Dampier's avg. mpg over best 70 games, through 8 games: 27.8 mpg
Dampier's required avg. mpg over best 70 games to guarantee contract: 30
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:51 AM   #36
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I'm thinking this played a role in Damp getting only 18 minutes against the Spurs last night.

They should just play Gooden a little more against the bad teams instead of trying to keep Damp off the floor against good teams. It could of cost us a W. If anything RC should of played Humphries a little.

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Old 11-14-2009, 02:56 PM   #37
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I'm more concerned with the All Star thing. Who exactly is the centers for the West All Stars?
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Old 11-14-2009, 03:16 PM   #38
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I'm more concerned with the All Star thing. Who exactly is the centers for the West All Stars?
Damp isn't even on the ballot. I don't think enough people will write him in as their pick. I don't think there is much to worry about.
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Old 11-14-2009, 04:36 PM   #39
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Do we actually know how effective Dampier will be as a trading chip? Can we get a Marion-level player for him? It just doesn't seem realistic that we could get, say, Wade for Dampier, regardless of the savings. You would have to throw in Terry who would nullify a lot of that money.

I suppose Josh has an option, so I guess he would make a little bit of sense. I still wonder if we are overvaluing this whole thing by a lot.
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Old 11-14-2009, 05:24 PM   #40
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Do we actually know how effective Dampier will be as a trading chip? Can we get a Marion-level player for him? It just doesn't seem realistic that we could get, say, Wade for Dampier, regardless of the savings. You would have to throw in Terry who would nullify a lot of that money.

I suppose Josh has an option, so I guess he would make a little bit of sense. I still wonder if we are overvaluing this whole thing by a lot.
could be. i mean the only reason we have Marion is because of Turkoglu's sudden change of heart. I love how it's portrayed as some sort of genius move by Donnie. i wonder what we would've gotten for Stack otherwise. possibly a much lesser player than Marion. trades fall thru or are trumped all the time. we almost traded Stack 4 Salmons last season. Bulls had a better offer. so we can want a star for Damp but we would most likely have to include J-Ho, Roddy, etc. and even that's probably not enough. it comes down to a team really wanting the $ savings desperately and matching up with our needs. Hawks are playing really well complicating things but maybe Joe Johnson's going to walk and we offer them some assets in a sign and trade. maybe our best case scenario is someone of his caliber.
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