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Old 11-14-2009, 06:40 PM   #41
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Do we actually know how effective Dampier will be as a trading chip? Can we get a Marion-level player for him? It just doesn't seem realistic that we could get, say, Wade for Dampier, regardless of the savings. You would have to throw in Terry who would nullify a lot of that money.

I suppose Josh has an option, so I guess he would make a little bit of sense. I still wonder if we are overvaluing this whole thing by a lot.
Wade is obviously a huge long shot. But Damp's contract is significantly more valuable from a savings perspective than Stack's was, so there's absolutely no question that the precedent is there for Damp's contract to bring a Marion level player.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:12 AM   #42
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DUST CHIP COUNTDOWN
Monday November 16, 2009

Games Played:9
Games Left: 72
Minutes Played: 242
Minutes Left: 1858
Dampier's avg. mpg over best 70 games, through 9 out of 10 games: 26.9 mpg
Dampier's required avg. mpg over best 70 games to gaurantee contract: 30
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:26 PM   #43
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Wade is obviously a huge long shot. But Damp's contract is significantly more valuable from a savings perspective than Stack's was, so there's absolutely no question that the precedent is there for Damp's contract to bring a Marion level player.
Plus it's a instant savings, so you may be able to get in on someone who is already under long term deal, but is happy with their situation.....ala a KG a few offseasons ago. Okafor does fall into this category.
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:52 PM   #44
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What players would you want for this team with the DUST chip?

Wade, LBJ (not happening), Kobe (not happening), Bosh ?, etc

Who?
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:01 PM   #45
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What players would you want for this team with the DUST chip?

Wade, LBJ (not happening), Kobe (not happening), Bosh ?, etc

Who?
Bosh, Kaman, package of good players (Ex Jackson/Ellis), CP3 if the Hornets continue to shoot themselves in the foot, etc.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:00 AM   #46
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DUST CHIP COUNTDOWN
Tuesday November 17, 2009

Games Played:9
Games Left: 71
Minutes Played: 242
Minutes Left: 1858
Dampier's avg. mpg over best 70 games, through 9 out of 11 games: 26.9 mpg
Dampier's required avg. mpg over best 70 games to gaurantee contract: 30
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:27 AM   #47
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What players would you want for this team with the DUST chip?

Wade, LBJ (not happening), Kobe (not happening), Bosh ?, etc

Who?
It's really hard to say because we can't determine who's going to be leaving their teams in free agency or which teams will be in sell mode for expiring contracts. Damp's contract doesn't have to be terminated until January 2011, meaning that even past this off season and into next season we can probe which teams are in sell mode and offer them an instant expiring (as opposed to having to wait until the season ends) with no buy out clause attached, which is extremely rare. After that team cuts Damp to get the money savings, he'll most likely come right back to us so it doesn't really matter who we get, just that we will be a more talented team than we are now.

Obviously a superstar is the dream scenario, but I'd be thrilled if it even ended up being someone like Kaman or Okafor.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:42 AM   #48
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:59 AM   #49
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I'm sure a few teams will be unloading talented players with bloated contracts to make space for Wade/LeBron/Bosh - I'd rather swoop in and get 2 rotational players of value (JET/Josh-quality) with the DUST chip than gun for a superstar and end up empty-handed...
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:05 PM   #50
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I'm sure a few teams will be unloading talented players with bloated contracts to make space for Wade/LeBron/Bosh - I'd rather swoop in and get 2 rotational players of value (JET/Josh-quality) with the DUST chip than gun for a superstar and end up empty-handed...
One of the great things about the DUST Chip is it gives us the ability to wait and see how the situation plays out for those superstars. If there's an opportunity to nab a Wade or James, then we pounce on it, if not then we still have a valuable chip that can be used up until January 2011 to net 1 or 2 very solid players.

There are always teams looking to unload talent for cap relief so no need to rush into a trade now and potentially tie our hands later should the opportunity to acquire Sammy Superstar arise.
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:57 PM   #51
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I thought that Damps contract was maximized for relief during the next off-season. I mean he has one more year, but it is a team option I thought if he didn't meet guidelines. His value lessens as the season goes along, although I do think it relieves the salary cap numbers, just not the cash issues, unless he is cut in the off-season. Mark would still have to pay him till the trade date, I think- even though he could be cut anytime and the 13M come off the books. ( I think -- please let me know if I have misinterpreted this).

With that said, I am at a loss as to who anyone thinks they can actually get with him -- that might actually fit with the Mavs. Wade (I think is a very long shot). LBJ (no chance). Kobe (no chance). Bosh (maybe, and this would be my first thought, but still not very likely).

I have to admit, that if I had the chance to move the Dust chip right now for CP3 and Okafor -- which would save NO tons of money -- I would do it. CP3/Okafor/Peja for JJB/JHo/Damp/Gooden/Carroll/Williams will work $$$$, and JJB is the replacement point, JHo replaces Peja but has a player option and one year, Damp is cut, Gooden cut, Carroll's contract goes down, and Williams is cut. NO could cut $$$$$$$$'s of dollars, and still put a professional team on the floor. Dallas's top 10 at that point would be ready to win it all, IMO. CP3, Kidd, Marion, Dirk, Okafor -- with Roddy, Terry, Peja, Singleton, Humph, Thomas, and Ross on the bench, plus one added to get to 13 (Voskul?).

I am guessing that a SNT of Camby would be more like it, if Sterling could make a dime. I don't think they really like the ???'s and contract of Kaman.

Bosh is the dream I think, but Miami, maybe Cleveland, etc will try and sign him. Let's face it Toronto still has the inside track.

Joe Johnson is another name I think Dallas should/would go after, but he doesn't seem to want to play second fiddle, and with Kidd/Marion/Dirk and JHo -- ????

I just don't know who Dallas would be saving the DUST chip for, if say an Okafor and/or a CP3 etc is available. Okafor statistically is not massively better than Damp and for the savings that Dallas could offer, would CP3 be available? Three highest paid players basically wiped off the books.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:03 PM   #52
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I thought that Damps contract was maximized for relief during the next off-season. I mean he has one more year, but it is a team option I thought if he didn't meet guidelines. His value lessens as the season goes along, although I do think it relieves the salary cap numbers, just not the cash issues, unless he is cut in the off-season. Mark would still have to pay him till the trade date, I think- even though he could be cut anytime and the 13M come off the books. ( I think -- please let me know if I have misinterpreted this).

With that said, I am at a loss as to who anyone thinks they can actually get with him -- that might actually fit with the Mavs. Wade (I think is a very long shot). LBJ (no chance). Kobe (no chance). Bosh (maybe, and this would be my first thought, but still not very likely).

I have to admit, that if I had the chance to move the Dust chip right now for CP3 and Okafor -- which would save NO tons of money -- I would do it. CP3/Okafor/Peja for JJB/JHo/Damp/Gooden/Carroll/Williams will work $$$$, and JJB is the replacement point, JHo replaces Peja but has a player option and one year, Damp is cut, Gooden cut, Carroll's contract goes down, and Williams is cut. NO could cut $$$$$$$$'s of dollars, and still put a professional team on the floor. Dallas's top 10 at that point would be ready to win it all, IMO. CP3, Kidd, Marion, Dirk, Okafor -- with Roddy, Terry, Peja, Singleton, Humph, Thomas, and Ross on the bench, plus one added to get to 13 (Voskul?).

I am guessing that a SNT of Camby would be more like it, if Sterling could make a dime. I don't think they really like the ???'s and contract of Kaman.

Bosh is the dream I think, but Miami, maybe Cleveland, etc will try and sign him. Let's face it Toronto still has the inside track.

Joe Johnson is another name I think Dallas should/would go after, but he doesn't seem to want to play second fiddle, and with Kidd/Marion/Dirk and JHo -- ????

I just don't know who Dallas would be saving the DUST chip for, if say an Okafor and/or a CP3 etc is available. Okafor statistically is not massively better than Damp and for the savings that Dallas could offer, would CP3 be available? Three highest paid players basically wiped off the books.
I'm not positive on the first question but from the way I've understood it Dampier can be cut anytime prior to January 2011 with no clauses or salary cap implications attached, meaning that it's on a pay as you go basis and that once he is cut no more money is owed. It's possible his cap value could slowly dwindle following each game but I'm not sure if that is the case.

Regarding Chris Paul, if he is available at any time then we make that trade hands down no questions asked. However, if Paul is ever available the possibility of NO shipping him to another team within the same division seems highly unlikely.

At this point I don't think we're really saving the DUST chip for anyone in particular, rather we're saving it for an opportunity to significantly increase our talent level at some point in the future.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:08 PM   #53
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I thought that Damps contract was maximized for relief during the next off-season. I mean he has one more year, but it is a team option I thought if he didn't meet guidelines. His value lessens as the season goes along, although I do think it relieves the salary cap numbers, just not the cash issues, unless he is cut in the off-season. Mark would still have to pay him till the trade date, I think- even though he could be cut anytime and the 13M come off the books. ( I think -- please let me know if I have misinterpreted this).
His value would only lessen in that it would save the team he's traded to less money as they would have already started paying salary to the players they trade to the Mavs. It would still provide them immediate salary relief, just not as much as a scenario in which he's acquired and cut during the offseason.

He does have to be paid once the season start until the day he's cut. That is correct.

I don't think there's any way Damp's on any team under his current contract when rosters are set for the 10-11 season.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:01 AM   #54
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Like i expected Toronto still suck.

Bosh is playing like a mad man, they dont have injuries and are 5-7.

Their defense is awful, they are like our 2004 team but with half of the offensive firepower.

That Hedo contract will bite them in the a** longtime. I dont see Bosh staying, they are still just a borderline playoff team and DeRozan doesnt look like a uber steal.

Hawks looking great, young team leading the east. I dont see JJ leaving there except he is maybe tired to play the RS in front of 3000-4000ppl..

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Old 11-19-2009, 10:07 AM   #55
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DUST CHIP COUNTDOWN
Thursday November 19, 2009

Games Played:9
Games Left: 70
Minutes Played: 242
Minutes Left: 1858
Dampier's avg. mpg over best 70 games, through 9 out of 12 games: 26.9 mpg
Dampier's required avg. mpg over best 70 games to gaurantee contract: 30
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:49 PM   #56
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No way in hell Bosh stays in Toronto. On the raps boards its allready really really ugly and Toronto was always one of the arenas with the fastest booing.

Now i wonder if the Raps maybe blow that team up until deadline. But they need a miracle like a Calderon-Billups trade or a strong center.

Hawks having a great season and except Bibby they are incredible young. I dont see him leaving so easy, just if hes sick to play at home in front of 3000-4000 fans...

Hopefully the cap will drop so no 2 max fa for Knicks/Heat/Nets.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:04 PM   #57
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No way in hell Bosh stays in Toronto. On the raps boards its allready really really ugly and Toronto was always one of the arenas with the fastest booing.

Now i wonder if the Raps maybe blow that team up until deadline. But they need a miracle like a Calderon-Billups trade or a strong center.

Hawks having a great season and except Bibby they are incredible young. I dont see him leaving so easy, just if hes sick to play at home in front of 3000-4000 fans...

Hopefully the cap will drop so no 2 max fa for Knicks/Heat/Nets.
Miami is the favorite, because of weather and Wade, but I think the Mavs can offer the most in terms of on and off the court, being home, a team that can win now.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:13 PM   #58
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Yeah, Miami has the city and weather bonus but Beasley showed this year that he is a way better 4 than 3.

Chalmers
Wade
Jones/Cook
Beasley
Bosh


Doesnt scream contender...
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:30 AM   #59
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Yeah, Miami has the city and weather bonus but Beasley showed this year that he is a way better 4 than 3.

Chalmers
Wade
Jones/Cook
Beasley
Bosh


Doesnt scream contender...
No doubt about that, 6-8 seed at best, depends on how Lebron and JJ approaches free agency too. Atl drops back to the pack without JJ.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:44 PM   #60
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So Damp has already missed 8 games, making it even LESS likely that he hits the guarantee mark on minutes--as now it's only his best 70 out of 74 games, instead of 70 out of 82...less margin for error on his part.

Joe Johnson is an interesting one to me. Has Atlanta ever resolved their screwy ownership issues they were having? I can see them not wanting to pay Johnson, and/or him not wanting to stick around. Not sure what we'd have to give up in return to get him--if the Hawks just want to save money, maybe the DUST chip plus some cash/picks for Johnson; if they want some talent back, a S&T J-Ho could be included, as I'd take Johnson over Josh any day. That, or we take back a bad contract or two from them--Pachulia or Crawford, perhaps--to save them even more money.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:53 PM   #61
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Joe Johnson is not even a remote possibility, which really sucks.
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:17 PM   #62
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Joe Johnson, just all other free agents, would have to decide he wanted to play for Dallas and tell Atlanta to sign and trade him or he would sign with someone else outright.

That sounded a lot more plausible before Atlanta started playing so well.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:02 PM   #63
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Joe Johnson, just all other free agents, would have to decide he wanted to play for Dallas and tell Atlanta to sign and trade him or he would sign with someone else outright.

That sounded a lot more plausible before Atlanta started playing so well.
For JJ it will come down to money. Very similar to the KMart FA a few years back, Nets made an offer, Nuggets blew it away. Sign and trade followed.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:04 PM   #64
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For JJ it will come down to money. Very similar to the KMart FA a few years back, Nets made an offer, Nuggets blew it away. Sign and trade followed.
The only way it comes down to money is if Atlanta doesn't offer him a max contract....and that seems highly unlikely.
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Old 12-13-2009, 11:59 AM   #65
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Someone might want to double check my math on this, but it looks like right now if you subtract Dampiers 12 games with the fewest minutes played he's averaging 29.66 per... I honestly don't see him being able to keep this up/avoid missing a few games for the rest of the season... you have to love Dampiers play in a contract years though
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:58 PM   #66
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Whatever tiny sliver of a chance there was that Damp would meet his bonus is gone now that he has missed eight games.
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:43 PM   #67
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I am still curious WHO we would be looking at -- other than Bosh and Wade.
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Old 12-13-2009, 11:09 PM   #68
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a second tier, fringe all-star type like joe johnson, kevin martin, kaman. not saying we can or will or should get any of those but if the right situation presents itself...
or RJ and VC this past offseason. NJ had to give up Ryan Andersen but gained Courtney Lee and cap space(and Rafer?)( btw we could use Rafer as a back-up for 15-20minutes a night). a few good players are bound to be available in a salary dump or SnT in the next 7 or so months. we just have to hope at least one is a fit.
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:52 AM   #69
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:52 AM   #70
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A little clarification:

Quote:
The DUST Chip.

link (I edited a touch - it's old enough to have Gortat references...)


Here's how it would work.

Next summer Sammy Superstar decides he wants a new team because he feels his old team will never be able to surround him with enough talent to win a title. (Did anyone read D-Wade's comments in that vein earlier this week? Has anybody been following the Chris Bosh saga?) In that summer, unlike most, there will be teams everywhere with enough cap room to give him a max contract, and his old team will know they will be losing Sammy Superstar in free agency while getting nothing back at all.

Meanwhile teams without cap room will try to woo Sammy while persuading his old team to do a Sign-and-Trade. Given the dollar volume of the Kidd deal, if Dallas wants Sammy they will have to be one of those Sign-and-Trade teams.

In that process, teams offering Sign-and-Trades will face a huge obstacle. NBA rules require that in getting Sammy via S-and-T they will have to send the old team fairly equal salary. That matching salary may include a lot of talent, and Sammy won't want to come to a crippled team. Meanwhile, the old team won't want to accept and pay the salary for junk. Also, once they lose Sammy they might simply prefer to turn around and shop in the summer of 2010 free-agent pool, and matching salary would hinder that greatly. (For an illustration of how that works, see this summer where Orlando is losing star forward Hedo Turkoglu to free agency, yet is not willing to consider Sign-and-Trades because of the salary they'd have to add to their payroll.)

But Erick Dampier's contract – The DUST Chip -- simply erases all those problems for Dallas.

By using it for the salary match, the Mavs will not gut their team, because his "instant expiring" contract can trade-match a salary up to $16.4475M. One player and done. In addition, the old team merely waives Dampier once the trade is done and ends up with $0 added to their payroll. Dallas of course includes a sizable "tip" to the deal (such as picks and/or cash) along with the DUST, and the old team ends up netting picks and/or cash for a player they were losing anyhow, without any of the normal cap increase that accompanies sign-and-trades.

This could even be an afterthought deal. The old team sees Sammy Superstar ready to sign with another team and says to Dallas, "Hey, we're about to lose Sammy for nothing. We don't want any of the S-and-T offers we're getting. Send us That DUST Chip, and we'll help get him to Dallas."

What's in it for Sammy? A lot. In that scenario, he can be added to a Mavs team that's 100-percent intact and that can pay him significantly more money than any of those pure free-agent offers. For example, with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh, a Sign-and-Trade can be six-years and $125.1 million, while an offer from a team with cap space could only be five years and $96.1 million.

Heck, if the Mavs need him, they might even re-sign Dampier once he's been waived!

Sammy Superstar wins by getting more money and going to a better team. The old team wins by getting picks and cash instead of nothing. Dallas wins by getting Sammy and adding him to an intact team.

Everybody wins.

Thanks to the possibilities made possible by The DUST Chip … You're losing your star, and want to start over as cheaply as possible with cap space, some extra picks and some cash to rebuild with? Call Mark Cuban.

Couldn't the old team leave all their cap space intact anyhow, just by letting Sammy walk? Of course. But why turn down something for nothing, if he's walking anyhow? Let him walk to Dallas, and add some assets for your rebuilding efforts. It literally costs nothing.

Would every team with a star free agent want such a deal? Of course not. It's obvious that Sammy's old team might find a preferable Sign-and-Trade offer with sizzling talent in return. But keep in mind that Sammy will be choosing the destination, so often it's not who can offer his old team the most, but rather who can find the best way to balance the old team's interests and also those of Sammy. The DUST Chip provides just such a way.

Just as importantly, this angle wouldn't have to work on every star free agent in 2010. It only takes one. In the supply-and-demand equation, there will be lots and lots of free agents and only one DUST Chip available to be used on only one max-salary deal. Also, it doesn't have to be reserved for a totally-maxed player, it could be used on any free agent Sign-and-Trade the Mavs wanted to pursue.

Next year might not be another Summer of Nuclear Winter. But there will be plenty of products on the shelves.

How much flexibility would The DUST Chip offer? Plenty. It could be used to match a first-year salary as big as $16.4475 million. For use on a player like LeBron, Wade, or Bosh who will be eligible for deals starting at $16.569 million, it simply takes a tiny addition and the matching requirement is all done. In fact, if the Mavs sign a minimum-salary player this summer to a two-year deal with the second year non-guaranteed, there's the rest of the matching on such a player, and it's all instantly erasable.

In addition, there still remains the option for The DUST Chip to merely be one part of a Sign-and-Trade, with some valued talent also being sent by the Mavs. In such a deal, DUST is still highly advantageous, in that the other team would only need to accept whatever talent they prefer, without any extra salary landing on their payroll due to NBA mandates.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:58 AM   #71
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The thing is I don't see miami just letting Dwade interview with a bunch of teams without actively going after another max contract player, which they have room to sign, to make sure Wade stays around. I think Wade wants to stay in Miami and he's going to let the front office do their thing. I think Miami will sign a top 10 free agent this summer.
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Old 05-03-2010, 02:22 AM   #72
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The thing is I don't see miami just letting Dwade interview with a bunch of teams without actively going after another max contract player, which they have room to sign, to make sure Wade stays around. I think Wade wants to stay in Miami and he's going to let the front office do their thing. I think Miami will sign a top 10 free agent this summer.
i think you're right about this.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:09 AM   #73
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Don't forget it doesn't have to be a sign and trade. It could be a team looking to shed some talent for salary relief. I know we all want a FA superstar, but if that doesn't happen then there are still a lot of possibilities that could legitimately improve this team.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:20 AM   #74
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Don't forget it doesn't have to be a sign and trade. It could be a team looking to shed some talent for salary relief. I know we all want a FA superstar, but if that doesn't happen then there are still a lot of possibilities that could legitimately improve this team.
I strongly believe that this team will be improved this off season...the only question now is "How significantly?"
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:25 AM   #75
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I think Dirk will leave, and for the DUST chip, we will get . . . . dust.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:26 AM   #76
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I still want to know "who" the dust chip is for............

I seriously doubt LBJ, DWade, and Bosh are options -- but I hope Cuban tries for all three.

JJohnson, Amare, Boozer --- maybe, but the bigs have defensive issues, and I am uncertain of Joe really leaving Atl.

I think the trades are going to have to be more "designed" for Dallas than big name.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:31 AM   #77
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I think Dirk will leave, and for the DUST chip, we will get . . . . dust.
Where's Dirk going again?

He's still under contract for an assload of money next season, so there are only a couple teams who can afford to sign him (and none of them are as good as the Mavs - unless you think Miami rates?)
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:31 AM   #78
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I think Dirk will leave, and for the DUST chip, we will get . . . . dust.
And I think you're a poo poo head. So there.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:37 AM   #79
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And I think you're a poo poo head. So there.
Thanks to what's being dumped on us year after year, I'd say we all are.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:39 AM   #80
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Where's Dirk going again?
He will go wherever you, personally don't want him to go. Book it.

He will also go wherever I, personally don't want him to go. And where Dirka doesn't want him. It will be worst case scenario. Bookit.
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