Lost: The Final Season

[Flacolaco]

I thought the "locked room" on the submarine thing was a little forced, btw. Why would he just stop and look at that? And then mention it later back on the main island? That was shoehorned pretty good, but obviously they want us to ask questions about it.

[Flacolaco]

And it's weird that we find out Sawyer is a cop,because he sort of let Kate escape at the airport knowing full well that she was running from someone.

Also odd is that Anthony Cooper is indeed still a grifter and responsible for Sawyers' childhood hardships, but that Locke still wants to invite him to the wedding.

[u2sarajevo]

I doubt we will see the wedding and Locke introduces his father to Sawyer or anything like that. /sarcasm

[XERXES]

All I know is that I'm super amped for next week!

My only question from last night's episode is: Do y'all think we've seen Flocke's crazy mommy (FCM) yet? Will she be someone we know or someone new?

[ShaggyDirk]

This season has been a total dud for me so far...I'm not even looking forward to each episode. Just watching it because i feel i have to see it through.. (just like 24) What a shame.. Everything seems so forced and this alternate reality is getting ridiculous. The writing has been nothing short of - puke and let's see how much we can get into one barf bag.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by XERXES

All I know is that I'm super amped for next week!

My only question from last night's episode is: Do y'all think we've seen Flocke's crazy mommy (FCM) yet? Will she be someone we know or someone new?

Someone new.

And that's too bad, Shaggy. I am totally digging this season. Having everyone back on the island all in one place, marching through the jungle...a big conflict brewing... I love it.

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Well, bens Dad I assumed was on the sub (along with Ben, though they never showed it on camera).

The island WAS easy to find, but then Ben moved it and Faraday said he'd have to calculate a "new bearing." Maybe Jacobs death changed something, or...well...I guess Eloise knew how to find it anyway, so never mind. She probably told him, for one reason or another.

Why do you assume Ben's dad was on the sub?

In the timeline where the bomb did not go off, the sub still left the island with many women ad children, but not Ben or his dad. Ben and his dad were not on that sub, because they stayed on the island for years after that point. We have no reason to believe any of that should have changed because the bomb went off.

You're right about the island being hard to find. Forgot about Ben moving it.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

Why do you assume Ben's dad was on the sub?

In the timeline where the bomb did not go off, the sub still left the island with many women ad children, but not Ben or his dad. Ben and his dad were not on that sub, because they stayed on the island for years after that point. We have no reason to believe any of that should have changed because the bomb went off.

You're right about the island being hard to find. Forgot about Ben moving it.

Errr...what does the original timeline have to do with it?

The flash sideways are the future of the timeline in which the bomb exploded, the submarine left with most of the DHARMA folks on it, and the island sunk as a result of the bomb as shown in the season premiere (Island sunk WITH dharma barracks intact)

So the only way for Bens dad to be alive in the flash sideways would be for him to have left on the submarine in "The Incident." Otherwise he'd be dead and sunk with the island.

Right?

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Errr...what does the original timeline have to do with it?

The flash sideways are the future of the timeline in which the bomb exploded, the submarine left with most of the DHARMA folks on it, and the island sunk as a result of the bomb as shown in the season premiere (Island sunk WITH dharma barracks intact)

So the only way for Bens dad to be alive in the flash sideways would be for him to have left on the submarine in "The Incident." Otherwise he'd be dead and sunk with the island.

Right?

The submarine left with "most of the DHARMA folks" in the original timeline, as well. That's why Miles and Charlotte left, just as they did before. The submarine leaving is a fact of every timeline, and has nothing to do with the Losties changing the timeline by detonating the bomb. Ben and his dad weren't on it.

[Flacolaco]

I don't think I understand what you're suggesting.

How else could Ben and his father be alive in the sideways timeline?

Things didn't happen like they did before. They DID change things. (Or, rather, created a new timeline)

[u2sarajevo]

Originally Posted by XERXES

My only question from last night's episode is: Do y'all think we've seen Flocke's crazy mommy (FCM) yet? Will she be someone we know or someone new?

Her name is Rebekah. But who is playing her we have no idea.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Her name is Rebekah. But who is playing her we have no idea.

lol. You are pushing Esau pretty hard, dude.

You might be right. But we don't know yet.

[bobbyfg7]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

lol. You are pushing Esau pretty hard, dude.

You might be right. But we don't know yet.

I can believe it though. Esau is hebrew for hairy so I bet Smokey chose Locke because of his lack of hair.

Maybe Jacob teased him a bunch.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

lol. You are pushing Esau pretty hard, dude.

You might be right. But we don't know yet.

I know I'm not but it is fun.

Besides some of the similarities do catch your eye.... Jacob was the intelligent one that stuck to tents and indoor activities, Esau was the hunter and was an outdoors man.

Originally Posted by bobbyfg7

I can believe it though. Esau is hebrew for hairy so I bet Smokey chose Locke because of his lack of hair.

Maybe Jacob teased him a bunch.

Esau was a hairy man and Jacob was smooth skinned. This is important to the story in the bible because their mother (Rebekah) preferred Jacob and helped him deceive his father into giving the birthright to Jacob instead of Esau (Esau was older so it should have been his). Rebekah got Jacob to dress in hairy skins so his elderly father would think he was Esau.

So if it is the bible Jacob, we know he is good at deceit.

[Flacolaco]

I think the mention of mother issues by Smocke (a character having issues with a parent on LOST? surprise!) actually brings me around on the Esau thing a little bit.

[u2sarajevo]

Some tidbits about Bible Jacob that intrigue me too in relation to events in Lost.....

Rachel, Jacobs wife, died during labor giving birth to her son Benjamin.

[Flacolaco]

I just had a thought. Desmond is locked up in the submarine, maybe perhaps?

[u2sarajevo]

Huh... I was looking for instances of the name Rachel on Lost and found this page on lostpedia.... so obviously I am not alone in my theory.... dang it.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Christianity - scroll down halfway down the page for the story of Jacob and Esau.

edit: Now it's not quite as fun......

edit2: Flaco - that's an interesting theory but I'm not sure why he would have him locked up. That is odd though that they brought alot of attention to it.

[Flacolaco]

I just want some Desmond, is all.

I have no idea what could be in there, but they definitely want us thinking about it.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

And Charlotte was looking fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine tonight, boy.

We have some radically different tastes, sir.

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I don't think I understand what you're suggesting.

How else could Ben and his father be alive in the sideways timeline?

Things didn't happen like they did before. They DID change things. (Or, rather, created a new timeline)

The only changes in the timeline happened because of the hydrogen bomb detonating. The Losties' prior interference on the island in 1977 - Sayid shooting Ben, saving Amy, Eloise shooting Daniel, etc. - did not create a new timeline. The ONLY thing that created a new timeline was the bomb going off. Anything and everything prior to that point is established history. This includes the submarine leaving the island.

I present two pieces of evidence for this: Ben and Dr. Chang. Sayid, Kate, and Juliet's interference in Ben's life as a child in no way affects the flash-sideways timeline differently than it does the "normal" timeline. In the timeline we had for five seasons, the "original timeline," what happened to Ben involving the Losties was no different. Ben as a child had been shot by a time-traveling Sayid and saved by the Losties, never to be the same again. That event happened, and there was never a timeline in which that event did not happen, or happened differently.

In the case of Dr. Chang, we have a more direct comparison. In the Incident fiasco, minutes before Juliet detonates the bomb, Dr. Chang loses his arm when it gets pinned. In one of the Dharma videos we saw during seasons 2 or 3, Dr. Chang did not have an arm. This is pretty clear evidence that the events that occurred in 1977 prior to the bomb going off HAPPENED in both timelines. What created the new flash-sideways timeline we're seeing, it is supposed, is not as a general result of the Losties interfering with Dharma in 1977. They interfered in 1977 in the original timeline, as well. The ONLY event that created this new timeline, we are assuming, is the bomb going off. Everything that happened before the bomb going off happened in every conceivable timeline, include the timeline that we've seen for five and a half seasons as well as this alternate flash-sideways timeline.

Another example is Eloise shooting Daniel. The Losties' interference prior to the bomb going off in 1977 is established history, as Eloise in the original timeline that we saw last season knows that she shot Daniel.

We are forced, therefore, to apply this same understanding to the submarine, because the submarine left the island prior to the bomb going off. The submarine leaving the island precisely as it did, when it did, should be governed by the same principles that have guided our other examples -- Eloise shooting Daniel, Sayid shooting Ben, and Dr. Chang losing his arm. Nothing the Losties did changed the submarine leaving in a way that would affect the flash-sideways timeline. The submarine leaving the island happened in both the original timeline as well as the flash-sideways timeline.

Among the people to leave the island via the submarine during this part are Miles and Charlotte. In the original timeline, we know, Miles and Charlotte left the island when they were young, Miles under extreme conditions that led his mother to resent his father. The way in which Miles left the island as a baby happened in the original timeline, as well as our flash-sideways timeline, because you're acknowledging that in the cosmos of the flash-sideways, Ben and his dad were on the submarine.

What I challenge you on is your insistence that Ben and his dad were on that submarine. We know that there is nothing different about the submarine leaving the island between the original timeline and the flash-sideways timeline, because nothing else that happened prior to the bomb going off is different, as the numerous examples above hopefully have shown.

In the original timeline, as shown by the episode "The Man Behind the Curtain," Ben grows up on the island, eventually killing his father. He did not leave the island on the submarine in this original timeline. Therefore, he did not leave the island on the submarine in the flash-sideways timeline either, because this event occurred prior to the hydrogen bomb being detonated.

In order for your understanding to be an accurate one, the following would have to be true:

1) In the original timeline, as well as the flash-sideways timeline, Ben and his dad were on the submarine, something which would have been very important for the writers to have shown, as we're not even shown that Ben returns to Dharma during the Incident hoopla. There can be no discrepancies between the two timelines, as the submarine left prior to the bomb going off.

2) In the "original timeline," the one in which the bomb did not go off and which we have seen play out for five seasons, after leaving the island, Ben and his dad return to the island. After leaving the island, Roger Linus decides he actually wants to go back and Ben wants to go back and live in Dharmaville some more, rather than living in the real world. An occurrence like this has in no way been suggested by the "original" timeline.

3) After the Losties officially "interfere" and create a new timeline, though, by detonating the bomb, the years 1977-2004 can be played out differently. Presumably, Ben and his dad, after leaving the island on the submarine, do not return to the island, because there is no more island. Ben goes to school and gets his PhD, and his dad lives with him until the events of "Dr. Linus" unfold.

(1) is a given, because based on the show with which we have been presented, there seems not to be a logical counter-argument to it, and I have presented ample amount of argument in favor of it. (2), while I feel it is quite implausible based on what we know of Ben's character, is nonetheless still possible. (3) is another matter. In "Dr. Linus," Ben's father asks him about what their lives would have been like had they stayed on the island. For Ben's father to ask this question requires him to somehow not know that the bomb ever went off. In their understanding, the island is still there, because we must presume that it wasn't a rhetorical question, and that Roger Linus didn't know the answer was "lol dad, we'd have been esploded."

Why would they not have known the island went kaboom? When they left the island, they had to have departed from the knowledge of the Dharma Initiative, so as to not have learned that 2 hours after leaving the island on the submarine, a hydrogen bomb went off. This therefore means that, in the original timeline, in which your understanding requires that Ben and his dad return to the island after leaving, go and do their own thing independent of Dharma, only to later be re-recruited and return.

Lastly, we have our first image from this season - the island underwater. I'm no expert in geology, but I really don't think that a hydrogen bomb would sink an island. I also think that if a hydrogen bomb, far more powerful than this,



exploded on an island, some houses made out of wood just a mile or so away wouldn't have continued to stand in any manner.

Therefore, we are at an impasse. I believe that your understanding of what we're seeing is a priori - you are assuming that the flash-sideways is as a result of the bomb's explosion creating a new timeline, where we are not yet met with sufficient evidence to back that up. I am wagering that there are an awful lot of implausibilities associated with that viewpoint, and so do not necessarily subscribe to the presupposition that you are subscribing to.

The alternative is, of course, that this is a major continuity error. Some may say that all of this is not so much a continuity error so much as it is me overanalyzing things. I counter that my reasoning here is not actually that complex. It's long, but I do not believe I'm jumping to any conclusion that is not self-evident, to put it in Cartesian terms. This reasoning was obvious to me from the first time we saw Ben. Up to this point, I had never described it as I do above, but I came to this conclusion rather easily based on the evidence as we have it in the show itself.

I hope to, in making this incredibly long post, that I have sufficiently explained my position. I've had difficulty explaining this to many people, but hopefully this is detailed and syllogistic enough to explain my point.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

Therefore, we are at an impasse. I believe that your understanding of what we're seeing is a priori - you are assuming that the flash-sideways is as a result of the bomb's explosion creating a new timeline, where we are not yet met with sufficient evidence to back that up. I am wagering that there are an awful lot of implausibilities associated with that viewpoint, and so do not necessarily subscribe to the presupposition that you are subscribing to.

Whoa.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

We have some radically different tastes, sir.

If she had brought that whip, then maybe we'd be talking.

[Flacolaco]

EW.com....

Did Jughead really sink the Island? And is it possible that the Sideways characters are now caught in a time loop in which they might have to go back in time and fulfill the obligation to continuity by detonating the bomb?
LINDELOF: These questions will be dealt with on the show. Should you infer that the detonation of Jughead is what sunk the island? Who knows? But there’s the Foot. What do you get when you see that shot? It looks like New Otherton got built. These little clues [might help you] extrapolate when the Island may have sunk. Start to think about it. A couple of episodes down the road, some of the characters might even discuss it. We will say this: season 6 is not about time travel. It’s about the implications, the aftermath, and the causality of trying to change the past.

I think we might be digging too hard here.

And the question still stands: How else do we explain Ben and his father being alive in the sideways flashes?

I am not married to my point of view at all, actually. With this show, I can't afford to be, but if the sideways flashes are indeed NOT a series of events that diverged from the original time line at the moment of the jughead explosion, then what are they?

Maybe that's the big mystery of the season. If they are, then why are they misleading us?

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

EW.com....



I think we might be digging too hard here.

And the question still stands: How else do we explain Ben and his father being alive in the sideways flashes?

I am not married to my point of view at all, actually. With this show, I can't afford to be, but if the sideways flashes are indeed NOT a series of events that diverged from the original time line at the moment of the jughead explosion, then what are they?

Maybe that's the big mystery of the season. If they are, then why are they misleading us?

I don't think I'm digging too hard at all. These are things which screamed out to me as I first saw them.

Ben and his father may be alive in the sideways flashes because it's not Jughead that created the alternate timestream, but something earlier than that, something which we don't know about yet, so that (a) Ben and Roger would have left before the bomb ever went off, or (b) the bomb doesn't go off at all.

The problem comes with assuming that it's Jughead's detonation which created the alternate timestream, and I don't see any reason that we have to believe that.

[sike]

did everyone else call Sawyer being a cop? Thought that was obvious.

I like it when Flocke talks about his past...I'm still not sure that he is completely lying...but I still think he is a liar. Its going to come down to either Jacob or MIB being a liar, and at this point, I'm not sure they have time to really demonize Jacob without jumping the shark.

I like where the Jack arch is going...he has purpose again...so I assume he can stop crying for a little while.

As always, any scenes with Flocke, Sawyer, or Ben are always the best this show offers.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

I don't think I'm digging too hard at all. These are things which screamed out to me as I first saw them.

Ben and his father may be alive in the sideways flashes because it's not Jughead that created the alternate timestream, but something earlier than that, something which we don't know about yet, so that (a) Ben and Roger would have left before the bomb ever went off, or (b) the bomb doesn't go off at all.

The problem comes with assuming that it's Jughead's detonation which created the alternate timestream, and I don't see any reason that we have to believe that.

So, to sum up....

There's the original timeline that we all know exists. We know that the bomb exploding was not a part of this original timeline (the island would have been severely damaged and several characters dead, etc)

There is, of course, a second timeline where the bomb exploded. The bomb DID explode. We all know that to be fact. The producers have confirmed it. But you think that this scenario is NOT the one being depicted in the flash sideways.

You're suggesting the possibility of a third timeline, created at unknown time between the barracks being built and the bomb exploding, and it's the one being presented to us.

LOST is the most convoluted show in network tv history, and that's why I love it. If any of this is true, that's fine, I'm totally game. I just have a hard time seeing ABC rolling with this. It's too much on top of what is already too much with Jacob and MIB and the candidates and what not.

The only way I see the flash sideways NOT being the timeline created when Jughead exploded is if it is in fact the end game that they will have achieved by the end of season six. Like...if the flash sideways is a preview of the happily ever after.(err...does that make sense?)

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

The only changes in the timeline happened because of the hydrogen bomb detonating. The Losties' prior interference on the island in 1977 - Sayid shooting Ben, saving Amy, Eloise shooting Daniel, etc. - did not create a new timeline. The ONLY thing that created a new timeline was the bomb going off. Anything and everything prior to that point is established history. This includes the submarine leaving the island.

I present two pieces of evidence for this: Ben and Dr. Chang. Sayid, Kate, and Juliet's interference in Ben's life as a child in no way affects the flash-sideways timeline differently than it does the "normal" timeline. In the timeline we had for five seasons, the "original timeline," what happened to Ben involving the Losties was no different. Ben as a child had been shot by a time-traveling Sayid and saved by the Losties, never to be the same again. That event happened, and there was never a timeline in which that event did not happen, or happened differently.

In the case of Dr. Chang, we have a more direct comparison. In the Incident fiasco, minutes before Juliet detonates the bomb, Dr. Chang loses his arm when it gets pinned. In one of the Dharma videos we saw during seasons 2 or 3, Dr. Chang did not have an arm. This is pretty clear evidence that the events that occurred in 1977 prior to the bomb going off HAPPENED in both timelines. What created the new flash-sideways timeline we're seeing, it is supposed, is not as a general result of the Losties interfering with Dharma in 1977. They interfered in 1977 in the original timeline, as well. The ONLY event that created this new timeline, we are assuming, is the bomb going off. Everything that happened before the bomb going off happened in every conceivable timeline, include the timeline that we've seen for five and a half seasons as well as this alternate flash-sideways timeline.

Another example is Eloise shooting Daniel. The Losties' interference prior to the bomb going off in 1977 is established history, as Eloise in the original timeline that we saw last season knows that she shot Daniel.

We are forced, therefore, to apply this same understanding to the submarine, because the submarine left the island prior to the bomb going off. The submarine leaving the island precisely as it did, when it did, should be governed by the same principles that have guided our other examples -- Eloise shooting Daniel, Sayid shooting Ben, and Dr. Chang losing his arm. Nothing the Losties did changed the submarine leaving in a way that would affect the flash-sideways timeline. The submarine leaving the island happened in both the original timeline as well as the flash-sideways timeline.

Among the people to leave the island via the submarine during this part are Miles and Charlotte. In the original timeline, we know, Miles and Charlotte left the island when they were young, Miles under extreme conditions that led his mother to resent his father. The way in which Miles left the island as a baby happened in the original timeline, as well as our flash-sideways timeline, because you're acknowledging that in the cosmos of the flash-sideways, Ben and his dad were on the submarine.

What I challenge you on is your insistence that Ben and his dad were on that submarine. We know that there is nothing different about the submarine leaving the island between the original timeline and the flash-sideways timeline, because nothing else that happened prior to the bomb going off is different, as the numerous examples above hopefully have shown.

In the original timeline, as shown by the episode "The Man Behind the Curtain," Ben grows up on the island, eventually killing his father. He did not leave the island on the submarine in this original timeline. Therefore, he did not leave the island on the submarine in the flash-sideways timeline either, because this event occurred prior to the hydrogen bomb being detonated.

In order for your understanding to be an accurate one, the following would have to be true:

1) In the original timeline, as well as the flash-sideways timeline, Ben and his dad were on the submarine, something which would have been very important for the writers to have shown, as we're not even shown that Ben returns to Dharma during the Incident hoopla. There can be no discrepancies between the two timelines, as the submarine left prior to the bomb going off.

2) In the "original timeline," the one in which the bomb did not go off and which we have seen play out for five seasons, after leaving the island, Ben and his dad return to the island. After leaving the island, Roger Linus decides he actually wants to go back and Ben wants to go back and live in Dharmaville some more, rather than living in the real world. An occurrence like this has in no way been suggested by the "original" timeline.

3) After the Losties officially "interfere" and create a new timeline, though, by detonating the bomb, the years 1977-2004 can be played out differently. Presumably, Ben and his dad, after leaving the island on the submarine, do not return to the island, because there is no more island. Ben goes to school and gets his PhD, and his dad lives with him until the events of "Dr. Linus" unfold.

(1) is a given, because based on the show with which we have been presented, there seems not to be a logical counter-argument to it, and I have presented ample amount of argument in favor of it. (2), while I feel it is quite implausible based on what we know of Ben's character, is nonetheless still possible. (3) is another matter. In "Dr. Linus," Ben's father asks him about what their lives would have been like had they stayed on the island. For Ben's father to ask this question requires him to somehow not know that the bomb ever went off. In their understanding, the island is still there, because we must presume that it wasn't a rhetorical question, and that Roger Linus didn't know the answer was "lol dad, we'd have been esploded."

Why would they not have known the island went kaboom? When they left the island, they had to have departed from the knowledge of the Dharma Initiative, so as to not have learned that 2 hours after leaving the island on the submarine, a hydrogen bomb went off. This therefore means that, in the original timeline, in which your understanding requires that Ben and his dad return to the island after leaving, go and do their own thing independent of Dharma, only to later be re-recruited and return.

Lastly, we have our first image from this season - the island underwater. I'm no expert in geology, but I really don't think that a hydrogen bomb would sink an island. I also think that if a hydrogen bomb, far more powerful than this,



exploded on an island, some houses made out of wood just a mile or so away wouldn't have continued to stand in any manner.

Therefore, we are at an impasse. I believe that your understanding of what we're seeing is a priori - you are assuming that the flash-sideways is as a result of the bomb's explosion creating a new timeline, where we are not yet met with sufficient evidence to back that up. I am wagering that there are an awful lot of implausibilities associated with that viewpoint, and so do not necessarily subscribe to the presupposition that you are subscribing to.

The alternative is, of course, that this is a major continuity error. Some may say that all of this is not so much a continuity error so much as it is me overanalyzing things. I counter that my reasoning here is not actually that complex. It's long, but I do not believe I'm jumping to any conclusion that is not self-evident, to put it in Cartesian terms. This reasoning was obvious to me from the first time we saw Ben. Up to this point, I had never described it as I do above, but I came to this conclusion rather easily based on the evidence as we have it in the show itself.

I hope to, in making this incredibly long post, that I have sufficiently explained my position. I've had difficulty explaining this to many people, but hopefully this is detailed and syllogistic enough to explain my point.

+1 rep for using lot's of big words and stuff, but mostly because the Baylor Bears won a tournament game.

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

So, to sum up....

There's the original timeline that we all know exists. We know that the bomb exploding was not a part of this original timeline (the island would have been severely damaged and several characters dead, etc)

There is, of course, a second timeline where the bomb exploded. The bomb DID explode. We all know that to be fact. The producers have confirmed it. But you think that this scenario is NOT the one being depicted in the flash sideways.

You're suggesting the possibility of a third timeline, created at unknown time between the barracks being built and the bomb exploding, and it's the one being presented to us.

LOST is the most convoluted show in network tv history, and that's why I love it. If any of this is true, that's fine, I'm totally game. I just have a hard time seeing ABC rolling with this. It's too much on top of what is already too much with Jacob and MIB and the candidates and what not.

The only way I see the flash sideways NOT being the timeline created when Jughead exploded is if it is in fact the end game that they will have achieved by the end of season six. Like...if the flash sideways is a preview of the happily ever after.(err...does that make sense?)

In reading the quote from the producer that you quoted, I didn't get the sense that he was confirming that Jughead even exploded. It looked like a complete runaround of the question, answering it with more questions. I don't read the producers, so if they've definitely said that Jughead exploded, then fine.

And again, I'm not necessarily saying that there's a "third" timeline. I'm saying that if there's not, then there seem to be some continuity errors based on the cosmology and teliology they're presenting us with.

Your last paragraph, I think is a real possibility. When I say that we may not be seeing what we think we're seeing, I think that something like that -- something that will only make sense in the final episode -- is a possibility.

[Flacolaco]

That's something I suggested immediately upon watching the season premier, and something that is definitely a possibility knowing these wacky producers.

Only thing is that it's not looking like a "happily ever after" reset, after watching Sayids in particular.

I don't know...If Dr. Chang or Radzinski show up in the flash sideways, I think I will definitely be on board with thinking that something else is up.

[sike]

the time lines will have to find some closure by season's end...the conclusion to the show can't be just two separate timelines, right? how boring would that be...and what an absolute waste of a final season.

[Flacolaco]

I am sure that one will have something to do with the other.

At least I uhhh...I'm hopeful?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by sike

the time lines will have to find some closure by season's end...the conclusion to the show can't be just two separate timelines, right? how boring would that be...and what an absolute waste of a final season.

I cannot imagine that they would ever do this. It would be terrible writing.

[Flacolaco]

Tonight's going to be awesome...

[mavspwnage]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Tonight's going to be awesome...

Tonight will be more than awesome.


****NOTE for anyone recording tonight's show on DVR (which includes myself)****

This episode will run until SIX minutes past the hour. So set your recording devices accordingly.

[LonghornDub]

Is there some particular reason tonight's gonna be awesome? Just based on the previews?

[mavspwnage]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Is there some particular reason tonight's gonna be awesome? Just based on the previews?

The fact that it's a Richard-centric episode.

[u2sarajevo]

One of the best ever. That was compelling television.

[Flacolaco]

Out-F#$king-Standing.

I kept thinking to myself "This is like a damned motion picture period piece..." throughout the first half. So well done...

And then the Jacob stuff came, of course.

They had me going there for a minute, but it's spelled out now AGAIN and it's been spelled out this whole season. The MIB is a BAD MAN. It's been about the smoke monster since day one, I guess. He must be kept there.

I wonder how much further back they'll go. How did smokey get there? Or am I getting greedy?

[mavspwnage]

AMAZING

What I loved about this episode is that it didn't keep going back and forth between the past and present. When it went to the past, it stayed there for almost the rest of the episode. And Richard's back story was riveting. Definitely one of the best episodes of the series. Loved it!