Spurs sign Vaughn, extend offers to Elson and Butler

[Drbio]

Originally Posted by George Gervin

what will i do...

Die hopefully.

[George Gervin]

Originally Posted by Drbio

Die hopefully.

you must be one of those pro-life conservative christians.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by George Gervin

what will i do...

Obviously spend too much time on Mavs message boards. I mean we may spend a lot of time posting here, but how lame is it to spend your time posting on your opposing team's forums? No life. You're like a little circus monkey, where all of the children laugh and throw small rotten pieces of kiwi at out of pity.

[George Gervin]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Obviously spend too much time on Mavs message boards. I mean we may spend a lot of time posting here, but how lame is it to spend your time posting on your opposing team's forums? No life. You're like a little circus monkey, where all of the children laugh and throw small rotten pieces of kiwi at out of pity.

unlike many of you i am not adverse to opposing opinions or view points. i enjoy reading many things including opposing team's message boars however i am not kool aid drinker like alot of you are.

by the way do you picture me with that cute little red vest on?

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by George Gervin

picture me

"I pleasure men." - George Gervin

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Unlike many of you, I prefer Grey Poupon to that French's garbage. Tisk tisk. -Gervin

[sike]

I feel sorry for the real George Gervin...

[Drbio]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Unlike many of you, I prefer Grey Poupon to that French's garbage. Tisk tisk. -Gervin

Genius.



OMG Cap that was great. I tried a rep hit but I have to pass some around. Greatness.

[George Gervin]

yawn.... name calling stopped yet?

Ray (San Antonio, TX): Give me a Spurs question Marc, please! No Scola, Oberto not looking great, no real offensive pickups in the offseason! What are my Spurs doing? It looks like Dallas and Pheonix are moving forward and the Spurs are running in place. Any chance we can convince Duncan to play the 5 and pick up another strong 4 (or bring Scola in)? They don't look like an elite team to me next year with this bench.

Marc Stein: (1:42 PM ET ) What? I thought the Spurs had a quietly HUGE week last week. I'd much rather have Elson and Butler splitting $5 mil than Mohammed. I'm betting on the Spurs to make a player out of one of them at the least.

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by George Gervin

yawn.... name calling stopped yet?

Ray (San Antonio, TX): Give me a Spurs question Marc, please! No Scola, Oberto not looking great, no real offensive pickups in the offseason! What are my Spurs doing? It looks like Dallas and Pheonix are moving forward and the Spurs are running in place. Any chance we can convince Duncan to play the 5 and pick up another strong 4 (or bring Scola in)? They don't look like an elite team to me next year with this bench.

Marc Stein: (1:42 PM ET ) What? I thought the Spurs had a quietly HUGE week last week. I'd much rather have Elson and Butler splitting $5 mil than Mohammed. I'm betting on the Spurs to make a player out of one of them at the least.

Link

[chumdawg]

I thought you guys really got off on Spurs fans coming here. Well, as long they are patting you on the back head and saying "It's gonna be okay, and by the way, I really like you"...a la Big Shot Rob.

[Drbio]

There are no acceptable spurts fans. They all suck ass. Unfortunately, George Gervin just REALLY likes the taste of ass so much he steps up his trollish game. It is funny that he comes to a Mavs site for validation though. Probably because his own kind hate him too.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

How sad. So unlikable that even the rotten riverwalk folk don't like him. I've posted on ESPN boards for years and this one for a few. Any other fan that is "self-righteous" in their acts are just trolls trying to "sophisticatingly" try and rub it in. Seen it a million times. Gervs is no different.

[MavsFanFinley]

Enough name calling. Are we adults or not?

If you don't want to talk anything Spurs then don't contribute to this thread or any like it. We don't pull this crap in other team threads.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by Drbio

There are no acceptable spurts fans. They all suck ass.

Word!

[capitalcity]

I'm glad you've taken the high road MFF... Unfortunately, George continues to divert threads into the gutter so he can talk about man ass.

Back on topic... San Ant_ni_ is losing the offseason like they lost the state championship.

[MavsFanFinley]

I haven't taken the high road but it's damn annoying when half the thread is filled with your an ass, no your an ass, no I said your an ass first. You die, no you die, I said you die first.

If a mod hasn't found something bring it to our attention instead of stooping to his/her level and then say he started it first when we say cool it.

[TVI]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well so far they've managed to sign Butler and Jacque Vaughn. Yawn. Not much to keep an eye on.

I understand that some people look at Jackie as a CBA scrub but I don't see it that way. He was a McDonald's HS All-American and Mississippi's Mr. Basketball twice.

I think his mistake was trying to enter the 2004 NBA draft straight out of high school. He went undrafted. However, he only had to spend half a year in the CBA (where he dominated, averaging 18.1 ppg, 10.7 rpg, and 1.45 bpg). The Knicks picked him up in Feb 2005, but Butler wasn't ever going to get a lot of playing time since Isiah committed to building the team around Curry. Also, after Zeke gave Jerome James that ridiculous contract, he'd look really foolish if he allowed him to sit the bench. With the center minutes going to Curry and James, their simply weren't many minutes for Butler, but he produced when he was in the game.

Time will tell, but this could turn out to be another coup. He's got a good BB IQ, solid moves around the basket, shoots a high percentage. There is a chance Larry Brown knew something when he remarked at times that Butler was their best center.

[Tokey41]

Butler has the potential to be an upgrade over Rasho and Nazr but thats not saying much. And if he doesnt produce what the hell are they going to do? Give up and die? If Duncan has a season like he did last year and Parker becomes their go to guy they might as well. We are going to crush them in years to come anyway, get used to it.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by TVI

I understand that some people look at Jackie as a CBA scrub but I don't see it that way. He was a McDonald's HS All-American and Mississippi's Mr. Basketball twice.

I think his mistake was trying to enter the 2004 NBA draft straight out of high school. He went undrafted. However, he only had to spend half a year in the CBA (where he dominated, averaging 18.1 ppg, 10.7 rpg, and 1.45 bpg). The Knicks picked him up in Feb 2005, but Butler wasn't ever going to get a lot of playing time since Isiah committed to building the team around Curry. Also, after Zeke gave Jerome James that ridiculous contract, he'd look really foolish if he allowed him to sit the bench. With the center minutes going to Curry and James, their simply weren't many minutes for Butler, but he produced when he was in the game.

Time will tell, but this could turn out to be another coup. He's got a good BB IQ, solid moves around the basket, shoots a high percentage. There is a chance Larry Brown knew something when he remarked at times that Butler was their best center.

Yeah....not convincing. Playing well on the Knicks is lookin like Kobe on a D 3 team. Yawn. You mean ridiculous contract like the one you gave Rasho?

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Butler has the potential to be an upgrade over Rasho and Nazr but thats not saying much. And if he doesnt produce what the hell are they going to do? Give up and die? If Duncan has a season like he did last year and Parker becomes their go to guy they might as well. We are going to crush them in years to come anyway, get used to it.

You did watch the conference semi's right? It's impossible for Elson and Butler to do any less that Rasho and Nazr did. As for crushing the Spurs in years to come, we'll see. It was a coin flip series last year and neither team has made any offseason move yet to clearly distinguish themselves from the other.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Yeah....not convincing. Playing well on the Knicks is lookin like Kobe on a D 3 team. Yawn.

The Hawks haven't been much better than the knicks these past few years yet Jason Terry seems to have shown he can be just as productive on a better team.

You mean ridiculous contract like the one you gave Rasho?

You mean the ridiculous contract we got rid of in Rasho, or the uber-ridiculous one you guys gave Dampier which you won't be able to get rid of?

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

You did watch the conference semi's right? It's impossible for Elson and Butler to do any less that Rasho and Nazr did. As for crushing the Spurs in years to come, we'll see. It was a coin flip series last year and neither team has made any offseason move yet to clearly distinguish themselves from the other.

I think this is where a lot of Spurs fans aren't looking at the big picture. The prevailing sentiment seems to be that since Pop didn't use his centers in the Dallas series, they were useless. The fact is, you have to play 82 games before you get to the playoffs. The Spurs won 63 of them, and weather or not their fans want to admit it, Nazr and Rasho helped.

Rasho was kind of stiff but he was a good post defender and his ability to hit the spot up jump shot kept his defender from sagging on Duncan too much. And while not consistent, Nazr was capable of putting together good stretches.

Of course the X-factor in all this is Jackie Butler. Everybody (spurs fans included) laughed at us when we signed Diop last summer. Turns out that was a tremendous asset. Butler is similar in that he's a high school kid that came out too early. He could be a good player. Just from looking at him, he may also have the potential to eat himself out of the league.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I think this is where a lot of Spurs fans aren't looking at the big picture. The prevailing sentiment seems to be that since Pop didn't use his centers in the Dallas series, they were useless. The fact is, you have to play 82 games before you get to the playoffs. The Spurs won 63 of them, and weather or not their fans want to admit it, Nazr and Rasho helped.

Rasho was kind of stiff but he was a good post defender and his ability to hit the spot up jump shot kept his defender from sagging on Duncan too much. And while not consistent, Nazr was capable of putting together good stretches.

Of course the X-factor in all this is Jackie Butler. Everybody (spurs fans included) laughed at us when we signed Diop last summer. Turns out that was a tremendous asset. Butler is similar in that he's a high school kid that came out too early. He could be a good player. Just from looking at him, he may also have the potential to eat himself out of the league.

You raise good points, but to teams trying to win championships the regular season doesn't really matter. It's about who you're going to have to beat in the postseason and how you match up with them. The Spurs aren't trying to win 63 games next year, they're trying to figure out how they're going to beat you guys. The Spurs are going to make the playoffs regardless what Elson and Butler do or don't do compared to Rasho & Nazr. From the Spurs standpoint it's 82 games just to decide where game 7 gets played and as you guys proved last year home court doesn't guarantee anything.

The Spurs teams of the last several years were built to match up with the Shaq-Kobe lakers. They went out and got Bruce Bowen to guard Kobe and signed Rasho and Nazr to bang with Shaq. Everything the Spurs did was about matching up with the lakers. In the mean time the Mavs have been building a team to beat the Spurs and they finally pulled it off by composing a team of Dirk who's probably the most unique mismatch in the game today and a bunch of perimeter guys who can slash and shoot from the outside.

The Spurs now have to find a way to adjust and they way they've chosen to do that was to swap out the plodders Nazr and Rasho for guys in Elson and Butler who can run the floor better and actually have a shot at playing in the up tempo game.

Does swapping Rasho & Nazr for Elson & Butler mean the Spurs will win as many games as they did last year? I doubt it. You guys are actually my pick to win the SW division next year. But I think that Elson and Butler give us a better shot at beating the Mavs than Rasho and Nazr did and that's what I care about. Will it play out that way? Until the games are actually played we won't know.

[V2M]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

You raise good points, but to teams trying to win championships the regular season doesn't really matter. It's about who you're going to have to beat in the postseason and how you match up with them. The Spurs aren't trying to win 63 games next year, they're trying to figure out how they're going to beat you guys. The Spurs are going to make the playoffs regardless what Elson and Butler do or don't do compared to Rasho & Nazr. From the Spurs standpoint it's 82 games just to decide where game 7 gets played and as you guys proved last year home court doesn't guarantee anything.

The Spurs teams of the last several years were built to match up with the Shaq-Kobe lakers. They went out and got Bruce Bowen to guard Kobe and signed Rasho and Nazr to bang with Shaq. Everything the Spurs did was about matching up with the lakers. In the mean time the Mavs have been building a team to beat the Spurs and they finally pulled it off by composing a team of Dirk who's probably the most unique mismatch in the game today and a bunch of perimeter guys who can slash and shoot from the outside.

The Spurs now have to find a way to adjust and they way they've chosen to do that was to swap out the plodders Nazr and Rasho for guys in Elson and Butler who can run the floor better and actually have a shot at playing in the up tempo game.

Does swapping Rasho & Nazr for Elson & Butler mean the Spurs will win as many games as they did last year? I doubt it. You guys are actually my pick to win the SW division next year. But I think that Elson and Butler give us a better shot at beating the Mavs than Rasho and Nazr did and that's what I care about. Will it play out that way? Until the games are actually played we won't know.

Nice post. I agree with you that the Spurs, Mavs and I'll add Suns too to that list, in the West... are just thinking more of how to match up against the other two than merely worrying about an 82 game regular season.

Of course, for us Mavs, an extra worry is how do we handle the deadly duo... D Wade & D Refs?!

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

You raise good points, but to teams trying to win championships the regular season doesn't really matter. It's about who you're going to have to beat in the postseason and how you match up with them. The Spurs aren't trying to win 63 games next year, they're trying to figure out how they're going to beat you guys. The Spurs are going to make the playoffs regardless what Elson and Butler do or don't do compared to Rasho & Nazr. From the Spurs standpoint it's 82 games just to decide where game 7 gets played and as you guys proved last year home court doesn't guarantee anything.

The Spurs teams of the last several years were built to match up with the Shaq-Kobe lakers. They went out and got Bruce Bowen to guard Kobe and signed Rasho and Nazr to bang with Shaq. Everything the Spurs did was about matching up with the lakers. In the mean time the Mavs have been building a team to beat the Spurs and they finally pulled it off by composing a team of Dirk who's probably the most unique mismatch in the game today and a bunch of perimeter guys who can slash and shoot from the outside.

The Spurs now have to find a way to adjust and they way they've chosen to do that was to swap out the plodders Nazr and Rasho for guys in Elson and Butler who can run the floor better and actually have a shot at playing in the up tempo game.

Does swapping Rasho & Nazr for Elson & Butler mean the Spurs will win as many games as they did last year? I doubt it. You guys are actually my pick to win the SW division next year. But I think that Elson and Butler give us a better shot at beating the Mavs than Rasho and Nazr did and that's what I care about. Will it play out that way? Until the games are actually played we won't know.

This is dead on, and well written.

The Spurs realized that the tempo and rules are pushing tempo. No longer is the banging type center going to win it all. Shaq is done, and the league gave him his parting gift. Now the Suns, Mavs, etc are going to rule the league for a few years -- better marketability. The Spurs aren't worried about scoring, TD will get his, and they have Parker and Ginobili. The Spurs are worried about defending a faster paced game.

Wouldn't surprise me if they come up with an athletic PF that can shoot, and move TD to the C position -- and once again become the team to beat in the conference.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

The Hawks haven't been much better than the knicks these past few years yet Jason Terry seems to have shown he can be just as productive on a better team.



You mean the ridiculous contract we got rid of in Rasho, or the uber-ridiculous one you guys gave Dampier which you won't be able to get rid of?

The difference is Dampier can actually be effective, like against Shaq in the finals. Rasho just gave us his best "what am I doing here" look everytime on the bench where he was nicely utilized.

Also, comparing Butler to Terry just shows you obviously don't watch much basketball. Terry was a 15/5 automatic for years. Butler had a few good games for crying out loud.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The difference is Dampier can actually be effective, like against Shaq in the finals. Rasho just gave us his best "what am I doing here" look everytime on the bench where he was nicely utilized.

Rasho was effective against shaq. That's why the Spurs got him in the first place. Plus the Shaq Rasho was facing was a hell of alot better than the Shaq Dampier faced. Shaq is gone, Rasho can't help much versus the Mavs, thus the need to keep Rasho around is no longer there.

Also, comparing Butler to Terry just shows you obviously don't watch much basketball. Terry was a 15/5 automatic for years. Butler had a few good games for crying out loud.

You missed the point. The point was that just because someone plays on a crappy team doesn't mean you can automatically reduce the production you can expect from them once they get on a good team. Terry's numbers didn't dip when he went to a good team. Therefore there's nothing that says that Butler's numbers have to dip when he joins the Spurs.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

You missed the point. The point was that just because someone plays on a crappy team doesn't mean you can automatically reduce the production you can expect from them once they get on a good team. Terry's numbers didn't dip when he went to a good team. Therefore there's nothing that says that Butler's numbers have to dip when he joins the Spurs.

Butler's numbers won't dip because he doesn't really even have numbers. He's a decent signing and the Spurs are hoping he'll end up kind of like Diop ended up for us, but comparing him to Terry when Terry started and put up good numbers while Butler was a 3rd string center who didn't really get the chance to put up numbers is incorrect.

[Tokey41]

I wouldnt want to touch anything from the Knicks... but the Spurs really needed to find something to replace their bigs and he seems like the best choice. As for finding out how to beat the Mavs... thats excellent. I know we have been trying to do the same to you for years as well. I dont think Butler will be better for the 82 long run against other teams like someone mentioned but it will help you contend in the playoffs for sure (might hurt your positioning) against us and Phoenix because lets be honest... who else do you have to figure out how to beat? The Grizz, Clippers, Kings, etc. they are all above average teams but they are no where near the elite like the Spurs, Mavs, and Suns who are easily the best three teams in the league right now.

That said this could REALLY blow up in your face when you have no reliable 5 and need Duncan to fill in (so who will fill in for Duncan now?), we got lucky with Diop... even we were suprised.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Hey, I fully admit Diop was a yawn of a signing until it turned out he was pretty decent. If Butler pans out, shitty for us, wonderful for you. Until then, your offseason concerns me not. Neither does your team.